Bush Drives a Wedge Right Through the Hearts of Democrats (Lebanon/Israel)

[KoKo]

Bush is the one we should be focusing on for doing NOTHING to promote peace between the Israeli's and the Palestinians since he took office.

Now he has a Wedge Issue for Democrats for this Fall. He and Congress have made the issue "Supporting Israel" when in fact the issue should be "Supporting Peace" and an end to violence in the ME through strong negotiation.

Democrats on this board have felt divided over what's going on...and that's exactly what the Repugs/NeoCons and Bush want. We shouldn't play into their hands. We all are upset about what's going on over there and those of us who Protested against the Iraq Resolution before Bush even started the bombing and for years afterward feel particularly horrible about what's going on in the ME. We tried so hard to stop it and nothing we did could stop it or change what happened afterward.

Bush and his Disastrous Foreign Policy are the issue and we need to keep after our Democrats NOW to pressure Bush to work for a peaceful solution to what's going on in Lebanon and Israel before we really do have WWIII.

I'd like to see our Dems take a stand and say that Bush is the Issue. They could do that by FILIBUSTERING JOHN BOLTON if the Repugs force a vote on him after they have "hearings" next Thursday. He was appointed as a recess appointment by Bush and is a DISASTER. Dems should fight like hell to stand up to Bush and NOT allow the Repugs to roll over them and make Bolton's appointment permanent.

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Our Coarse President
Can’t Fix Middle East
By: Joe Conason
Date: 7/24/2006

Watching the President of the United States try to fulfill his responsibilities at an international summit is a sobering experience these days. To observe George W. Bush talking trash, chewing with his mouth open and demonstrating his ignorance of geography marks still another step down in the continuing decline of U.S. prestige. It’s the diplomatic equivalent of flag burning.

While Mr. Bush’s little misadventures make headlines, what they symbolize is a collapse of policy and a vacuum of competence that are far more troubling than mere cloddishness. Preoccupied from the beginning of his Presidency with Iraq, alienated from our traditional allies and the United Nations and neglectful of broader American interests in the Middle East, he and his team now confront a sudden crisis for which they seem woefully unprepared.

We are learning what happens when the leadership of “the indispensable nation” takes a mental vacation. We are also beginning to learn why regime change in Iraq, originally sold as the solution to every problem in the region, has proved to be such an enormous liability for us and for our allies.

Recall that when the Bush administration decided to invade Iraq—on the pretext of disarming Saddam Hussein—a new era of peace and democracy was supposed to dawn. Making an example of the toppled Saddam would, according to neoconservative theory, persuade other despots in the region to reform and reconcile themselves to co-existence with Israel, and stimulate the “peace process” too. (That same theory, of course, similarly predicted flower-strewn parades in Baghdad and enough oil revenues to finance the whole bloody enterprise.)

More........
http://www.observer.com/printpage.asp?iid=13090&ic=Joe+Conason

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Fast-track: Hearings scheduled next Thursday after key critic changes stance / Josh Bolton

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee has confirmed that they will hold a fresh hearing on the nomination of Bush's pick to the United Nations, John Bolton, who failed to be confirmed by the Senate after his initial appointment by President Bush last year.

In a posting on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee website -- which has not been reported previously -- the Committee has publicly confirmed that they will hold hearings on Bolton's nomination next Thursday at 9:30 am ET.

A spokesman for ranking Foreign Relations Democrat Joe Biden (D-DE) said a notice went out this morning.

more.....

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Confirmed_Senate_will_hold_hearings_on_0721.html

[MissWaverly]

1. You are so right

we don't want to see a world enslaved by neocons for the benefit of the wealthy 2% while
the rest are either bombed to oblivion, starved or exploited.

[Hubert Flottz]

2. I agree.

America's objective should be none other than peace, in the Middle East. The killing of children in OUR NAME...MUST STOP!

[Master Mahon]

3. They should roll out

Boltons record, call top notch critics, play the seething public fighting he's had with others at the UN, his actions re: Iraq, etc..etc...etc..


But naturally the GOPigs will control the hearings and no one negative to Bolton will be allowed to testify. If that turns out to be the case, the Dems should decline to appear at the hearings and vote for filibuster.

[TahitiNut]

4. But, but, but ...

... judging from DU, many "Democrats" have far more fun picking sides and picking noses than picking a path to peace. I don't think I've ever seen a more bizarre set of "world views in a fun-house mirror" on DU than recently. The sound of all the wargasms is deafening. (I lost that part of my libido over 35 years ago.)

[KoKo]

5. True...and that's how they "wedged us." We've thought we were on top

of their tactics. Discussions that Karl Rove (once he was "off the hook"} would used Terror and October Surprise" once again were all forewarned here. We just didn't get that the Bushies could use Israel as the Wedge. Surely our NEW INTELLIGENCE MACHINE which has been fine tuned under Negroponte could have had some intelligence about Hezbollah and the captured soldiers and Israel's reaction. I'm sure they did...the RW Think Tanks spend their whole lives doing various "war game scenarios" like kids hooked on video games...and so they knew that "bad stuff" was building with "I/P," under an Olmert who needed to prove himself.

But, Bush/NeoCon's were happy to sit back and let them all "fight it out" because it's good for them in November to split the Dems between the "PEACE Activists lefties" and the "Strong on National Security" Dems who are so afraid of looking weak because the Dem "Strategists" like that Asshole idiot Bob Schrum are telling them that Kerry lost because the Democrats are always weak on defense and we wouldn't want them to look like they supported TERRAISTS over Israel in the ME...

It's not Israel or the Terraists at this point...is it? It's the Repugs destabilizing the ME just to steal another election. We are falling for it.... With the Bushies it's all about Politics. With the NeoCons it's all about proving their vision of "Pax Americana" or whatever the hell they want to call it.

But, once again we Dems got "suckered." Isn't there a boxing term called "Sucker Punch" or something like that?

[DELUSIONAL]

6. one more vote -- come on people -- just one more vote

[Gloria]

7. Dean immediately went after all this as being related to Bushco

being weak on defense and security in his July 16 San Diego Speech....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2393274

Clark, in his first appearance on FOX when he was discussin this, mentioned it as being evidence of Bushco's failures.

Then, Dean was gone and everyone else started the "Israel's right to defend itself" mantra and the vote was taken.

That misses the point entirely. Dean was right....and Dems should be going after the utter depravity of Bush's handling of the region.

If they fail to do so, they are fools and/or enablers or both.

At this point, I'm ready to skip voting for any of them and just tune out completely. Because it's a waste of my time and money...

[KoKo]

35. Pelosi shut Dean down.....Here's a link to what Pelosi did to Dean

in 2003. Look at the letter she wrote with other Dem co-signers to Dean chastising him for not fully supporting Israel. Dennis Kucinich tried to get a Resolution for Peace through Diplomacy this week...but voices of peace through diplomacy have "no standing" these days. Taking sides was too important for Pelosi/Hoyer and those who have constituents they are afraid of angering. When we are facing WWIII it would seem that kowtowing to "constituents" at such a time should be a last concern.

I assume she's not changed her views and maybe wrote another letter with more Dem signers before the Vote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1700060&mesg_id=1700060

[JackNewtown]

8. The House vote was 410-8 on being more extreme than Bush...

...Democrats in Congress are more "pro-Israel" than Bush. This is not a partisan issue.

Has a leading Democrat critized Israel over the past five years? Dean merely said the US should be even-handed in the ME in 2003 and he was crucified for it...

[SoCalDem]

11. It's not partisan.. it's simplistic greed and fear

NO ONE (either party) DARES to be "anti" or even perceived as ANTI Israel. To do that opens a giant can of Whup-Ass on any future campaign they may run. The media we have today is NEVER conducive to real debate or thoughtful discussion.. We live in a 50-50 world..a world of Black & White..Good & Evil..

If you dare to say out loud that Israel's actions in Lebanon are the least bil ill-advised or excessive, you are immediately branded as anti-semitic..Of course they voted the way they did.. The WAR is a reality, why would they dare to be against it.. It's TOO late now to stop it anyway, BUT they could do themselves a lot of harm.. The Lebanese Lobby does not contribute much to their coffers..

[The Magistrate]

18. Greed And Fear, Ma'am, Are The Basic Stuff Of Politics

Without them, the whole business grinds to a halt....

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

13. I disagree...the "Wedge Issue" was put out there to inflame the message

boards. And, while we have many here who support Israel..no matter what...if they are here then it means they support so much of what we Dems are about going back to Civil Rights Movement and funding Liberal Causes.

Bush ...run by Rove ..knows very well how to play political cards...whether it's race, ethnicity or immigration.

But, since 9/11 TERRA has always been the issue that sends our Dems into the Bunkers in fear. And, they are now able with Israel/Lebanon to move the debate from IRAQ to "Could Hezbollah Mount an Attack Here in the US?" That was a CNN HEADLINE...and a day later it appeared on MSNBC.

How close in "Campaign Speak" is "Hezbollah might be Planning an Attack on US Soil" (per CNN) to "Mushroom Clouds from Iraq" (Condi Rice)way back or just before the latest violence the CNN "Question of the Day" was "Could Iran be Planning Attacks on NY Subway System."

See how they "Game" us? It's not about any "NeoCons" here that need to be outed it's about ALL OF US WORKING FOR STABILIZATION AND PEACEFUL SOLUTIONS!

Aside from TROLLS...I think DU'ers are genuinely conflicted by what's going on when in fact it's the very "confliction" that Rove/Bush likes, because he KNOWS that "Terrorism Fear" and "DRE VOTING MACHINES" will WIN THEM ANOTHER ELECTION. We are SO SUCKERED!!!!! :-(

[The Magistrate]

10. There Is No Wedge Among Democrats, Ma'am

That is quite clear from the votes of Democratic Senators and Representatives in the Congress recently.

The argument here in this forum is not representative of the felings of rank and file members of the Democratic Party, or persons who vote Democratic in general elections, on the question, either.

The fact is that Israel enjoys very wide support in the country at large, and in both major Parties.

[jsamuel]

12. not quite right

33% of the US doesn't support Israel's actions. While all but 8/520 (1.5%) members of the Leg branch voted to support Israel.

Does that mean DU is out of touch? I don't think so.

This issue is dividing democratic voters. Dividing them from the people they usually vote for.

[The Magistrate]

14. Almost None Of Those People, Sir

Will refrain from voting for a Democratic candidate over the matter. They do not particularly approve of the violence, but do not consider it very important, and very few of them feel any hostility towards Israel.

[rucky]

16. No hostility here...

but I'd like to have seen a bit more debate over the matter.

[jsamuel]

22. I consider it very important and don't feel hostility towards anyone.

Just mad at the bad policies.

[The Magistrate]

24. Or, Perhaps, In Other Words, Sir

This will not cause you to refrain from voting for a Democrat in November.

As a "wedge", this is pretty poor.

[jsamuel]

26. Yes, that is correct. However...

voter turnout could be depressed

I am a very active supporter. Other people, who are not, need a reason to vote, and this will not give them that.

[Zhade]

32. Then they shouldn't have a problem with Iraqis killing Americans...

...if this doesn't bother them - which, because it's Israel killing Arabs, it doesn't, which says a lot about what shitbags the citizenry can be at times.

[sandnsea]

31. Right wingers don't all support Israel

See Pat Buchanan. There's plenty of hard core right wing fundies who absolutely hate Israel and see everything they do as wrong. Hard to say what percentage of that 33% is even from the left.

[KoKo]

15. Magistrate...I have great respect for you...but

Read my post and the replies...and think about what I say rather than dismissing what I say because Dems were herded into voting to resolution "Support Israel" whatever the action it takes, because of a PARTISAN effort by Repugs (funded by RW Armagaddonist/Rapture Fantasy Dreams) to get every Dem out there against "Terraists.'

But, in effect it was a VOTE that cut off those of us working for PEACE and DIPLOMACY in the ME. You can't "force a vote" and not know that you are in effect throwing crap in the faces of those of us who support "PEACE through DIPLOMACY" in the World.

It was a great way for Repugs to grab us by the short hairs and make us tow a line that really doesn't belong in the 21st Century.

:shrug:

[The Magistrate]

17. I Appreciate That, Ma'am

But are you going to refrain from voting for any Democrat in a general election over this?

If it is a wedge contrived by the enemy, is it not our choices that will determine how effective it is?

[KoKo]

19. I never advocated anything in my posts that should cause you to question

my Democratic Voting Credentials, SIR! I AM and have ALWAYS BEEN a Dem...why did you attack me with your post...questioning my voting?

I would not have expected such a thing from you...given that we've had some good dialog in the past. I took your post as saying I was advocating not voting for Democrats in the Mid-Terms. I am highly offended, SIR!

NC Dem...who is active and donating and Precinct Delegate...SIR! (well you really got me angry here)...and I don't think this is what you really intended ...did you? Because I see you as a kinder/fairer person than your "posts" show and your "challenges" show. Am I wrong?

[The Magistrate]

23. No Question Of That Was Intended, Ma'am

It seemed to me self-evident that your reply would be along the lines of "Of course I will vote for the Democrat running in my state and district." That being the case would be an indication of the weakness of this as a wedge in real political terms.

[KoKo]

27. You are very "WRONG" Sir...in your analysis and reply....I will Not Honor

It...here...with a response it deserves....

[KoKo]

20. removed by op

[KoKo]

21. Shouldn't "Working for Peace" go beyond Party and Ideological Lines?

Seems to me..most here would support "Working for Peace though Diplomacy."

:shrug: A GOAL that we will try to reach? Is it a "worthy goal?"

[Little Star]

25. It is the only worthy goal in this mess!

Thank you for advocating peace and I join you in the effort.

[KoKo]

28. Thanks! Peace through Negotiation and Diplomacy...how can we forget

this? And, we should ALL be WORKING FOR THIS on this web site..because the "alternative" is too dreadful for our children and grandchildren. I don't want to go "off this earth" knowning that I didn't FIGHT for PEACE....

I couldn't die with it on my conscience.

[KoKo]

29. Sad... this become a "subthread" on DU GD Discussion...Peace! FGS!

Have we ALL FORGOTTEN?

[sandnsea]

30. Support the French proposal

"The mission is expected to propose creating a buffer zone on the Israeli-Lebanese border, a beefed-up international force, deployment of the Lebanese army into the south and a pullback by Hizbullah as well as the release of captured Israeli soldiers as part of possible prisoner exchange."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1824599,00.html

[Zhade]

33. Better than indiscriminate bombing of innocent Lebanese!

NT!

[KoKo]

34. Thanks...it's good to read the report on the link ....just to see what's

being proposed...