Hezbollah Sucks Poll

[Sugarcoated]

I'm doing this for Truthiness Inspector and also cause I'm curious to see how people feel.

It's beyond parsing and hair splitting: It's Israel's land. The bloodshed will stop when the Arab nations and the people/terrorist organizations/governments in the Middle East give up the hate. Israel will not give up and let themselves be "wiped off the map". As Golda Meir said: (not verbatim) "It will stop when Muslim's love their children more than they hate us". Parsing is futile cause that's the solution.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. What's the IDF?

Is there anything that Hezbollah's done that the IDF wouldn't do if the roles were reversed?

On edit: oh, and that Golda Meir quote makes her sound like a first class bigot.

[Full Metal]

18. Ya bombing the Marine Barracks in 83 fer starters.

And that's a great quote mostly because it's true.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

38. I would add to the quote, though

it will stop when all people in the region love their children more than they do fighting and killing and hanging onto old grudges. Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord; God alone is the Avenger.

[Scurrilous]

37. Another from Golda:

"There were no such thing as Palestinians."

[jonnyblitz]

2. meanwhile let's ignore the elephant in the living.

I won't vote in your dumbass poll and it has nothing to do with my views on Hezbollah.

[brmdp3123]

3. I'm happy to cast the first vote.

Good quote from Golda, too.

[Sugarcoated]

4. For the record

I'm not Jewish, I'm not a "pro-Israel"-er and I don't agree with people who are.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. And yet you include this in the OP:

It's beyond parsing and hair splitting: It's Israel's land. The bloodshed will stop when the Arab nations and the people/terrorist organizations/governments in the Middle East give up the hate. Israel will not give up and let themselves be "wiped off the map". As Golda Meir said: (not verbatim) "It will stop when Muslim's love their children more than they hate us". Parsing is futile cause that's the solution.

That sounds very pro-Israel to me. And it's that statement in your OP, which I think is very one-sided, that stops me from voting in this poll. So why does the question ask about Hizbollah, but you put in the "it's the fault of Arab nations" statement?

[adriennui]

35. thank goodness for that

we can't have any jewish. pro-israelis starting polls.

check your beliefs at the door if you're pro-israel....it's akin to being satan.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

5. Replete with suckiosity

[newsguyatl]

6. push polling?

Yes:

Yes:

[hobbit709]

7. Both sides have blood on their hands

Neither side is willing to negotiate at this point. There are legitimate grievances on both sides but until both sides are willing to sit down and admit this and talk about it, I see no end to the problem.

[blue sky at night]

8. not going to vote...........

what is the difference between them and the United States Government over the last 50 years or so????

[Sugarcoated]

11. I can think of many.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. List 'em.

[Sugarcoated]

15. We don't send suicide bombers out to murder people

We don't pay people to fly planes into skyscrapers.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. That's a rather trivial difference.

We just drop bombs instead.

Furthermore, Hezbollah had nothing to do with 9-11. And the only similarity between them and those who did is race and religion. Strikes me as blatant islamophobia.

[Sugarcoated]

19. That's a "trivial" difference to you?

You're extreme.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Yeah, I drink Mountain Dew too.

but I noticed you haven't got an argument.

[Sugarcoated]

24. Arguing isn't one of my pasttimes

like it seems to be with many here. I gave my views in the OP.

[Full Metal]

22. Then there's the whole being a Representative Democratic Republic.....

....founded on the intrinsic natural rights of life, liberty, and property, as well as the equality of all mankind.

[DemonFighterLives]

46. Are you talking about Israel or the US

I usually hear these words from the right!

No democracies anymore?
:dem:

[Crunchy Frog]

41. We don't have to.

We employ far more effecient methods to slaughter people. They probably would too if they had the kind of military resources that we do.

[datasuspect]

43. yeah, we just pay people to kill the poor all over the globe

no disconnect there . . .

oy vay!

[Spazito]

51. You have no need for suicide bombers, you have bunker busters,

fully loaded F-18s, and on and on, to do the job that suicide bombers are doing. You don't pay people to fly planes into skyscrapers but you DO pay mercenaries to kill in Iraq, I guess because the mercenaries don't take down buildings it's okay.

[Minstrel Boy]

9. seriously....

[blonndee]

10. Lebanon is Israel's land?

Who knew?

[Scurrilous]

40. It's part of...

...Greater Israel.™

[stranger81]

53. from the river to the sea, right?

Now who's the terrorist?

[porphyrian]

12. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization that helps needy Muslims.

They are like the mob of the 20s, but a bunch less Italian and in the Middle East rather than here.

[ixion]

14. terrorism is creating terror for its own sake. Hezbollah is an extremist

religious group. They have a stated purpose other than simply causing terror.

Just my two cents

[ComerPerro]

17. Do you have a "this is retarded" option?

[gkhouston]

23. I'd vote for that!

:toast:

[DemonFighterLives]

45. Good Answer!

:evilgrin:

[tocqueville]

20. was the IRA a terrorist organisation ?

where is the difference ?

[Full Metal]

26. sinn fein obliged by their ceasefire agreement..........

...........and the IRA disarmed.

[tocqueville]

29. After how many years ?

the IRA has never been "really" considered as a terrorist organisation. And the Hezbollah is based pretty much on the same principles. Then it's another story if the goals of those organisations are acceptable.

[Full Metal]

32. Nope

Hesbollah was ordered to disarm by UN resolution after the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon they refused to do so and their intent is to destroy Israel not to liberate Lebanon the IRA never intended to destroy Britian they are not even remotely similar.

[tocqueville]

42. check facts : not similar ? Hezbollah are fucking amateurs

Strategy 1969-1998

Seán Mac Stíofáin - First Chief of Staff of the Provisional IRA

"Escalation, escalation and escalation"

In the early years of the Troubles, the Provisional IRA's strategy was to use as much force as possible to cause the collapse of the Northern Ireland administration and to inflict enough casualties on the British forces that the British government would be forced by public opinion to withdraw from Ireland. A policy described by Sean MacStiofain as, "escalation, escalation and escalation". This was modelled on the success of the Irish Republican Army in the Irish War of Independence 1919-1922 and was articulated in slogans such "Victory 1972". However, this policy failed to take into account the strong unionist commitment to remain within the United Kingdom. Previous IRA campaigns from the 1920s to the 1950s had avoided actions in urban centres of Northern Ireland to avoid provoking retaliatory attacks on the Catholic/Nationalist community there. The Provisional IRA determination to do this was one of the principle areas of disagreement between the Provisional and Official IRAs.

The British government held secret talks with the PIRA leadership in 1972 to try and secure a ceasefire based on a compromise settlement within Northern Ireland. The PIRA agreed to a temporary ceasefire from June 26 to the July 9. In July 1972, Provisional leaders Seán Mac Stíofáin, Dáithí Ó Conaill, Ivor Bell, Seamus Twomey, Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness met a British delegation led by William Whitelaw. The IRA leaders refused to consider a peace settlement that did not include a commitment to British withdrawal, a retreat of the British Army to barracks and a release of republican prisoners. The British refused and the talks broke up <2>.

Casualties
This is a summary. For a detailed breakdown of casualties caused by and inflicted on the Provisional IRA see Provisional IRA campaign 1969-1997#Casualties

The Provisional IRA have killed more people than any other organisation since the Troubles began. In addition, they have killed more Roman Catholics, more Protestants, more civilians and more foreigners (those not from Northern Ireland) than any other organisation. Members of the PIRA however have frequently disputed that the forces ranged in opposition to the PIRA throughout 'the Troubles' represent separate, distinct "organisations". In the republican analysis of the conflict, organisations like the UDR, British Army, along with the UVF, and UDA represent an alliance of state and paramilitary forces, making a tally of this type nonsensical as it does not represent the nature of the conflict in their view.<16>

Two very detailed studies of deaths in the Troubles The CAIN project at the University of Ulster and Lost Lives <17> differ slightly on the numbers killed by the PIRA but a rough synthesis gives a figure of 1,800 deaths. Of these, roughly 1100 were members of the security forces - British Army, Royal Ulster Constabulary and Ulster Defence Regiment, between 600 and 650 were civilians and the remainder were either loyalist or republican paramilitaries (including over 100 PIRA members accidentally killed by their own bombs).

It has also been estimated that the IRA injured 6000 British Army, UDR and RUC and up to 14,000 civilians, during the Troubles <18>.

The Provisional IRA lost a little under 300 members killed in the Troubles <19>. In addition, roughly 50-60 members of Sinn Féin were killed. <20>.

Far more common than the killing of IRA Volunteers however, was their imprisonment. Journalists Eamonn Mallie and Patrick Bishop estimate in the The Provisional IRA, that between 8-10,000 PIRA members were imprisoned during the course of the conflict, a number they also give as the total number of IRA members during the Troubles <21>.


Categorisation
Due to its frequent use of bombs; its killing of hundreds of policemen, soldiers, loyalist paramilitaries, and civilians, throughout Northern Ireland and in other countries; its status as an illegal organisation; its role in racketeering, bank robberies, 'street justice' and the fact that the unionist majority in Northern Ireland wanted to continue living under British rule, it is internationally considered a terrorist group 4, although its supporters preferred the labels freedom fighter, guerrilla and volunteer.

Support from other countries and organisations

Main article: Provisional IRA arms importation
The Provisionals have had extensive contacts with foreign governments and other illegal armed organisations.

Libya has been the biggest single supplier of arms and funds to the PIRA, donating large amounts of both in the early 1970s and mid 1980s. (See also)

The IRA has also received weapons and logistical support from Irish Americans, in the USA especially the NORAID group.(See also) Apart from the Libyan aid, this has been the main source of overseas IRA support. U.S. support has been weakened by the War against Terrorism, and the fallout from the events of the 11 September 2001. US Political backing for Sinn Féin was badly damaged by the Robert McCartney killing in late 2004. McCartney, a Catholic, was killed by IRA members in a pub brawl. Other IRA members destroyed all the forensic evidence on the scene and intimidated the witnesses. The McCartney family have publicly denounced the IRA.

In the United States in November 1982, five men were acquitted of smuggling arms to the IRA after they revealed the CIA had approved the shipment (although the CIA officially denied this). There are allegations of contact with the East German Stasi, based on the testimony of a Soviet defector to British intelligence Vasili Mitrokhin. Mitrokhin revealed that although the Soviet KGB gave some weapons to the Marxist Official IRA, it had little sympathy with the Provisionals <37>. Another more recent allegation is that the Provisional movement has been aided by the Cuban DGI. It has received some training and support from the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) and has had some contact with Hezbollah. According to the Provisional IRA, the organisiation has also had fraternal contacts with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, Basque group ETA and various South African groups. Since the late 1970s it is believed by many intelligence agencies that the IRA has shared bomb making and urban warfare tactics with a list of terror groups including: The Basque Separatist Movement (ETA), South African ANC and the PLO. In 2001 three IRA bomb experts were caught allegedly training Colombian guerrillas, (the FARC), in bomb making and urban warfare techniques 5.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army

so talk about double standards. And those guys were fighting the US staunchest ally.

[Full Metal]

50. Ya and they never called for the:

annihalation of the Britiain nor did they violate every single cease-fire agreement that they ever entered into.

[oberliner]

25. Hezbollah Manifesto Excerpt

Hezbollah Manifesto Excerpt

The Necessity for the Destruction of Israel

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

Source: http://www.ict.org.il/Articles/Hiz_letter.htm

[Full Metal]

27. Irish Declaration of Independence:

'Whereas the Irish People is by right a free people:

'And whereas for seven hundred years the Irish People has never ceased to repudiate and has repeatedly protested in arms against foreign usurpation:

'And whereas English rule in this country is, and always has been, based upon force and fraud and maintained by military occupation against the declared will of the people:

'And whereas the Irish Republic was proclaimed in Dublin on Easter Monday, 1916, by the Irish Republican Army, acting on behalf of the Irish People:

'And whereas the Irish People is resolved to secure and maintain its complete independence in order to promote the common weal, to re-establish justice, to provide for future defence, to ensure peace at home and good will with all nations, and to constitute a national policy based upon the people's will with equal right and equal opportunity for every citizen:

'And whereas at the threshold of a new era in history the Irish electorate has in the General Election of December, 1918, seized the first occasion to declare by an overwhelming majority its firm allegiance to the Irish Republic:

'Now, therefore, we, the elected Representatives of the ancient Irish People in National Parliament assembled, do, in the name of the Irish Nation, ratify the establishment of the Irish Republic and pledge ourselves and our people to make this declaration effective by every means at our command:

'We ordain that the elected Representatives of the Irish People alone have power to make laws binding on the people of Ireland, and that the Irish Parliament is the only Parliament to which that people will give its allegiance:

'We solemnly declare foreign government in Ireland to be an invasion of our national right which we will never tolerate, and we demand the evacuation of our country by the English Garrison:

'We claim for our national independence the recognition and support of every free nation in the world, and we proclaim that independence to be a condition precedent to international peace hereafter:

'In the name of the Irish People we humbly commit our destiny to Almighty God Who gave our fathers the courage and determination to persevere through long centuries of a ruthless tyranny, and strong in the justice of the cause which they have handed down to us, we ask His Divine blessing on this the last stage of the struggle we have pledged ourselves to carry through to freedom.'

[earthside]

28. Reality Check Needed Here

Take a look at this from Juan Cole ... you know, the Middle East expert we all have lauded for his analysis when it came to the Iraq war and occupation:

Massive Displacements, Humanitarian Crisis by Juan Cole/Informed Comment

Not satisfied to have made 500,000 out of 3.8 million Lebanese homeless already, and to have chased over 100,000 out of their own country to Syria, AP says that on Thursday ' Israel warned hundreds of thousands of people to flee southern Lebanon "immediately ..." '

The Orwellian world into which Olmert and his band of manic bombers have plunged ordinary Lebanese is illustrated by Liz Sly's report for the Trib:

'Thousands of Lebanese were trying to flee the south after Israeli warplanes dropped leaflets warning people to leave, stirring fears that an Israeli ground invasion was imminent. But hundreds of thousands more remain stranded in villages and towns across the south, unable to leave their homes because of the intensity of the sustained Israeli bombing campaign. United Nations and Lebanese officials warned of an impending humanitarian disaster unless food and medical supplies are allowed to reach the stricken area and called on Israel to establish a "humanitarian corridor" to allow aid to get through.'

So let's get this straight. The Israelis warn the small town Shiites of the south to flee their own homes and go hundreds of miles away (and live on what? in what?). But then they intensely bombing them, making it impossible for them to flee. The Lebanese have awoken to find themselves cockroaches.

I repeat, this is nothing less than an ethnic cleansing of the Shiites of southern Lebanon, an assault on an entire civilian population's way of life. Aside from ecology, it is no different from what Saddam Hussein did to the Marsh Arabs of southern Iraq, and the Israelis are doing it for exactly the same sorts of reasons that Saddam did.

Ethnic cleansing ... how tragic.

[JackNewtown]

30. Hezbollah is a terror org and sucks

However, you are blaming the entire Arab-Israeli conflict on the Arabs. Israel has a role in it too. It is Israel that occupies some Arab lands in the West Bank and Golan Heights. Can you name an inch of Israeli land that is occupied by the Arab? Both sides are to blame in this. Neither side is saintly and the self-righteousness of each side is very annoying.

What did Golda Meir do for peace, besides occupy the Sinai, Golan Heights, the West Bank, and Gaza? It is a nice quote but Meir should have done some introspection too if she truly sought peace.

[Bretttido]

31. Did this biased poll come directly from Faux News? n/t

[MercutioATC]

34. I won't contribute. Hezbollah's actions suck...Israel's actions suck.

...and, even given Hezbollah's actions, Israel went too far this time.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

36. Hezbollah doesn't represent all Arabs, and definately not

all Muslims, any more than the Likud Party represents all Israelis and all Jews. I think the work towards peace and reconcilliation which has been done by non violent groups on both sides has been damaged because of the actions of Hezbollah and the Israeli government.

[Bretttido]

39. What a horrible quote

"It will stop when Muslims love their children more than they hate us."

This is not even directed at Hezbollah. The phobic idea that Muslim's don't love their children as much as they hate "us" is sickening. That is the kind of quote I expect to find at FR, but certainly not here.

[mmonk]

44. With that wording, I won't participate in your poll.

You'll be trying to draw a false conclusion about the results and the people here. But that's how people reinforce black and white thinking patterns.

[WinkyDink]

47. It's not that"sucks" is puerile; it's that it is so paltry.

[Violet_Crumble]

48. I've seen some stupid polls in my time...

...but a poll titled as though it's been done by someone addicted to crap like the OC, and accompanied by a really stinky comment by one Israeli PM who was notorious for her denial of the existence of the Palestinian people, takes the award as being in the Top 5 of really stupid polls :)

[jonnyblitz]

49. why do people keep posting that BIGOTTED Golda Meir quote

like it is a positive statement? she was surely showing her racist true colors whenever she said that. Isn't she the one who said "there are no palestinians" too?

there are some truly DIM BULBS posting on here lately. jesus fucking christ.

[stranger81]

52. Meir

also said that the Palestinians don't even exist.

It's not just one side here that's full of hate.

[Dutch]

54. Of course they are

Du is home to 19 (at present) severely warped or deluded individuals, apparently.