US Soldiers Were Under Orders To "Kill All Military Aged Men" In Iraq

[kpete]

US Soldiers Were Under Orders To "Kill All Military Aged Men" In Iraq

Soldiers Say Ordered to Kill Young Men

Jul 21, 4:58 PM (ET)

EL PASO, Texas (AP) - Four U.S. soldiers accused of murdering suspected insurgents during a raid in Iraq said they were under orders to "kill all military age males," according to sworn statements obtained by The Associated Press.

The soldiers first took some of the men into custody because they were using two women and a toddler as human shields. They shot three of the men after the women and child were safe and say the men attacked them.

"The ROE (rule of engagement) was to kill all military age males on Objective Murray," Staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard told investigators, referring to the target by its code name.

That target, an island on a canal in the northern Salahuddin province, was believed to be an al-Qaida training camp. The soldiers said officers in their chain of command gave them the order and explained that special forces had tried before to target the island and had come under fire from insurgents.

more at:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060721/D8J0K0F03.html
via:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/07/21/us-soldiers-were-under-or_n_25563.html

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. I'm no expert, but this sounds like a war crime to me.

[Monkeyman]

7. As a x soldier your right

If this come out all hell is going to break out

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. This isn't new.

I remember hearing about this way back in the Fallujah offensive.

They were letting the women and children and some of the elderly evacuate then they killed everybody else.

[arcane1]

5. but don't call it genocide, no sir!!!!

Sure, they're killing off all the males

Sure, the women give birth to DU-poisoned mutants that can't survive

Sure, the end result is no more Iraqis

but it's NOT genocide

it's NOT!

NOT, I say!!!

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[AntiFascist]

24. No wonder they're enlisting neo-Nazis n/t

[arcane1]

3. like in Vietnam

"military age" is pretty much being old enough to hold a gun :(

[Monkeyman]

8. No we never had such orders

[arcane1]

9. I've heard Colin Powell himself talk about such orders

maybe YOU never had them...


"I recall a phrase we used in the field, MAM, for military-age male," Powell wrote. "If a helo spotted a peasant in black pajamas who looked remotely suspicious, a possible MAM, the pilot would circle and fire in front of him. If he moved, his movement was judged evidence of hostile intent, and the next burst was not in front, but at him. Brutal? Maybe so. But an able battalion commander with whom I had served at Gelnhausen (West Germany), Lt. Col. Walter Pritchard, was killed by enemy sniper fire while observing MAMs from a helicopter. And Pritchard was only one of many. The kill-or-be-killed nature of combat tends to dull fine perceptions of right and wrong."


http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html

[Monkeyman]

11. 3rd506 68-69

If I had orders like that it would of been Sir with all due respect NO

[arcane1]

12. that's because you have more humanity than Mr Powell

[MercutioATC]

20. That's wrong, but is still a far cry from what's being claimed here.

As I said above, I have no doubt that our troops may have recieved orders to use deadly force when necessary with all military-aged male combatants. That's a far cry from "Kill all military-aged males".

The first simply establishes the rules of engagement.

The second is tantamount to genocide...it orders the extermination of ALL military-aged males, whether or not they pose a threat...and that just didn't happen.

[arcane1]

23. semantics

it's like saying we didn't torture prisoners, we interrogated them effectively

I hope you are right, I just fear you are not :(

[SoCalDem]

18. Military age, indeed..

[helderheid]

4. Recommended and holy shit.

[NNN0LHI]

6. Kind of sounds like death squads n/t

[MercutioATC]

10. Bullshit.

Our soldiers were NOT ordered to "kill all military-aged men". Period.

Their orders were to use deadly force, when necessary , against any hostile male of military age.

There's one HELL of a difference between the two statements.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Did you read the first paragraph in the OP?

>>>Four U.S. soldiers accused of murdering suspected insurgents during a raid in Iraq said they were under orders to "kill all military age males," according to sworn statements obtained by The Associated Press.<<<

[MercutioATC]

16. Yes, I did. And I'll guarantee this is just spin.

If it happened, it would be inexcusable. It didn't.

[arcane1]

26. what makes you so positive?

we've certainly committed enough OTHER atrocities in Iraq... why is this one so difficult to accept even the possibility?

[Spazito]

29. How do you know it is just spin?

Do you know these soldiers? Were you part of the mission named in the article? Do you know what the secret ROEs are?

If not, I don't see how you know any more than the rest of us and certainly less than the soldiers quoted in the article who say it DID happen.

[NNN0LHI]

32. Sworn statements are the exact opposite of spin n/t

[arcane1]

14. white phosphorus, napalm, depleted uranium

why are you so certain this is bullshit?

[MercutioATC]

17. I have three decorated soldiers (two still active) in my family.

None of them would have complied with an order like this (if it was simply "kill all military aged males" as presented here)...and none of them would have ever issued such an order.

I'm an air traffic controller. A "kill all males of military age" order would be akin to a supervisor ordering me to crash two planes into one another....I'd never comply and, more importantly, they would never issue such an order in the first place.

[arcane1]

21. I wish I had faith like that

but the brutality that I've seen caused by the US military, and indeed the military of other countries, makes such faith impossible

there is simply no good reason for me to believe that Americans are somehow morally superior, especially since there are plenty of incidents to prove otherwise

so, sadly, these soldier's claims don't shock me at all

[leveymg]

28. I listened very carefully to an NPR report the other night.

It was a radio interview from the field inside central Iraq. The reporter was interviewing Marines at a forward headquarters. One of the men recounted events from earlier that night in which he stated that he called in fire from C-130 gunships on three MAMs who had been spotted on a corner close to his position.

The artillery fire was called in because he had spotted MAMs, not because he was receiving fire from MAMs, or because the MAMs had weapons, but because they were MAMs.

[katinmn]

34. AP reported this and they are practically State Media

and generally are covering up things for the Bush Administration. Since they are reporting this I expect they have solid testimony, corroborating interviews.

[leveymg]

15. They call them, "MAMs". Sure beats "Slopes, Gooks, Chinks", doesn't it?

A MAM is a target, not someone's son, husband, father, uncle, nephew, or friend. We've learned a lot from our mistakes, haven't we?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. Yikes, those were the orders given to the Japanese in Nanjing in 1937!

Thousands of Chinese soldiers had been driven back to Nanjing (Chiang Kai-shek's capital) by the Japanese onslaught, and when the Japnaese finally entered the city in the fall of 1937, the Chinese soldiers began shedding their uniforms and trying to blend into the population.

A few commanders actually tried to ascertain which young men were soldiers. There's an anecdote about a soldier who was about to be executed when an elderly man (whom the soldier had never seen before) called out, "Stop! That's my son!" And the Japanese let him go.

There were also individual Japanese soldiers who warned Chinese soldiers about how to stay out of harm's way.

However, overkill was the standard operating procedure. Any male in his late teens or early twenties was fair game. And the Japanese soldiers had already made rape part of their normal routine, so no female of any age was safe. Nor was any person who objected to the Japanese looting. Thousands were slaughtered "just because."

It is NOT an example I want our troops to emulate.

[malaise]

22. The killing machine moves on n/t

[KoKo]

25. Yes...I can believe and understand that under Bush/Rumsfeld Orders

that THIS was what they were told. Heinous as it is....it's AMERICAN MILITARY ...under BUSH FASCIST REGIME...to "do what it takes to SUPPRESS all DISSIDNTS."

:-( It goes on and on and on and on...............

[Little Star]

27. What the hell!!!!!

How much longer is the rest of the world going to turn a blind eye to this shit. I am so ashamed of us. :cry:
Shining city on the hill my ass!!!!!!
What has happened to our country?
Has the whole world got mad?

[Gato Moteado]

30. who gave the orders? king herrod?

sounds like something biblical. what's up in iraq?

[katinmn]

31. WHAT???

This is fucking insane!

We have to go to DC, everybody, and stop this!

We have to do more than talk - PLEASE!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[PurgedVoter]

33. * is proud of the way Rumsfeld is transforming our military!

Do we think our military is as well thought through, ethical or effective as it was before * and the neocons?
* is proud of the way Rumsfeld is transforming our military!
Do you remember the military leaders who did not want to go into this war?
* is proud of the way Rumsfeld is transforming our military!
Do you remember the warnings, the retiring generals speaking out?
* is proud of the way Rumsfeld is transforming our military!

Remember the peace that appeared possible when Carter was president.
Remember the financial security that appeared possible when Clinton was president.
Remember the courage and heart that our nation used to be able to show.

* is proud of the way Rumsfeld is transforming our military!

[Patchuli]

35. But then * is proud of all his hatchet jobs

on everything from baseball, oil companies and a country! What a resume...