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on becoming what you hate... (william erving thompson)

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 09:37 PM
Original message
on becoming what you hate... (william erving thompson)
(if you want to read more on the theme of "becoming what you hate" read william erving thompson -- evil and world history)

what have "we" become? --have we become what we hate?

isn't that the four hundred pound elephant in the room stomping all over us?

that, of all people, you'd think post-holocaust folk (jews -- israelis if you prefer -- the chosen ones -- hebrewiesteins-- ya'll) would be weary of such posturing. come on. what are you fighting for?

what are YOU fighting for, here, as a word-warrior?

what, in your experience of the democratic underground would give you the idea that PREEMPTIVE WAR or COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT would find a friendly ear. call us far out lefites if you must, but (speaking for myself) i came to DU to dialogue for truth and reason. i don't care if the jewish people, space aliens or mickey mouse is behind what's going on.

no one gets a free ride on the way to world war three.

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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't tell people to Shut the Fuck Up very often
But if I see anyone defending what Israel is doing - that is what I am inclined to do.


"I repeat, this is nothing less than an ethnic cleansing of the Shiites of southern Lebanon, an assault on an entire civilian population's way of life. Aside from ecology, it is no different from what Saddam Hussein did to the Marsh Arabs of southern Iraq, and the Israelis are doing it for exactly the same sorts of reasons that Saddam did.

http://www.juancole.com/ posted Friday, July 21, 2006


And I don't think that DU should be tolerating it.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. once i wrote a letter to my local public radio station
it was a survey response, actually. they wanted to know what programming was appealing. and what was the one community angle i'd like to see covered.

to the first question i responded that we could do with less bluegrass and more jass in the afternoon.

to the second i responded that "intolerance" in our town and gown.

a friend at the radio station, not realizing this was ME he was talking to, brought up how this "annonymous" survey response had such an internal logical inconsistency.

every now and then i think about this to remind myself about "tolerance." i don't know where a line could be drawn -- but i don't have to sit idly by and let the vibe go to hell.

so, lets try to shut it down. lets not respond to the conflagration. lets see how well we can avoid becoming what we hate as we work on this issue.

??
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. i have been calling people assholes and every name in the
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 10:22 PM by jonnyblitz
book lately on here knowing the posts could/would be deleted in regards to all of this. Let's not mince words here, people on this board are supporting fascism if not explicity then tacitly. they must think we are fucking stupid or they actually believe the bullshit that you only hear from the media in the USA. There is sooo much credible stuff out there that competely refutes all the simplistic crap they keep peddling. just leave the country and watch the news.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. fascism recap -- 14 characterists...
The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.


Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.


Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.


Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.


Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.


Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.


Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.


Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.


Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.


Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .


Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.


Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.


Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.


Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
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k_jerome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. blatant = david duke. subtle = juan cole. nt.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. spoken like a true believer.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. That's a bunch of crap
You just don't want people informed. Call it racism to shut people up. It's nonsense.


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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. I take the side of the innocent Iraqui's, Lebanese and Israelies
they are dying in droves....while these power hungery war mongering murders wage their wars....Preemptive war was started by the * admin and the world is using this tactic more and more....

I think there are more Freepers trying to disrupt the dialog here...they always show their true colors....

Keep talking...keep the dialog going we are going to continue to be here with you....
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. i can't do the bad vibe thing anymore. it has to stop.
people can be so open minded their brains fall out. or maybe there really is a freep invasion. i don't know. wish i did.

it's deeply wrong. deeply saddening.

we've got to let the good karma-dogs out somehow. this is not who we are.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's not the "Jewish people," Nashville, it's the state of Israel
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 10:17 PM by villager
Unless it's fair to say that you, as an American -- one of the "American people"-- are "behind" everything Bush does.

But I agree that state excess needs to be condemned equally -- and fairly -- all around.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. this distinction has always worked for me
there's military-state identity. and there's cultural identity.

my cultural identity is that all people should be treat nice and not be used as pawns in state wars. i'm a liberal. it's how i think. i'm all for the Enlightenment.

so... am i crazy to sense a great disturbance in The Force?

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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. have always enjoyed your posts, btw... and yes, a great
disturbance in the Force.

Also, time for us all to re-read Randolph Bourne, I think, especially "War is the Health of the State," where he says (I think that's the one)that you can love a country's culture while despising its government -- the heavy military machinery of the state...
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. man... good stuff...
here's where i'm "at" tonight. i'm having a horrible flare of something. i'm contemplating a trip to the ER for what i think is kidney pain. i'm bracing myself for a horrible experience, so i'm putting it off by posting here while i gather wiki-articles on my illness.

everytime this happens, b/c i present with PAIN, i get a big "drug-seeker" reception. so, i'm armed. i have my MRIs, my articles, and a jar of pee. i'm loaded for bear. those mean doctors are going to see me tonight and tell me my kidneys are okay...

if i don't feel better in the next 10 minutes... it's a cycle of abuse. god, i don't want to do this...

lessee... what else can i post about -- :)

thanks for reading my stuff, btw. :)

paz out!
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. off i go. 10 minutes and no significant improvement.
this should be fun...
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Hope all goes well for you.
:hug:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. posting from Holmes Regional ER
it's keeping my mind off the pain.

thanks for the hugs -- i hate ERs, doctors, being sick.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Have you seen the doc yet?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. finally -- what a nighmare
no pain control. tylenol -- which is toxic to my liver. i can't see straight i'm in so much pain.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Damn. Sounds like you got a "weekend wonder" for an ER doc.
Would motrin work? Once for excruciating back pain I was told to take 3 motrin 3x/day.
I'll pm you my weight if you want to go that route. :hug:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. had nothing but 'weekend wonders" here -- as in wonder how they
keep their jobs.

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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Jesus Christ! So what happened?
n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. the usual --- SNAFU
boobery.
incompetance.
outright bullshit.

with liver and kidney involvement, tylenol and ibu are a no-no.
also, when you make a point to take yourself to the ER because of off-the-scale lower back pain, you expect to actually have the pain addressed.

it wasn't even attempted to get it under control until i'd been there more than 20 hours. the ER doc wrote down that the only med allowed would be Tylenol.

It went downhill from there. the nurse would come in and work on my room mate and get her all taken care of when it was ME who had rang the damn nurses station. my roomie was like, "hey, i didn't call you -- she needs you."

so then, it was like -- oh, i've got rounds to make, i'll come back. which TOTALLY blew my mind.

i swear, i'm like elaine on seinfeld -- there's a "black mark" in my records somewhere.

i actually left there today, never really having had the pain managed. i tried to convey this to my Pain Management PA -- that i didn't appreciate the Tylenol, etc. and he got all pissed and said that yes, he had indeed ordered real honest to god painkillers. i told him to check my chart because someone is wrong and after two days i didn't care who it was, nor did i particularly want them to make it better -- i just wanted to leave.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I put off going to doctors way too much because I've had
that same experience over and over. Not with pain meds but just in general. There's nothing like sitting up all night in pain at an ER to be mishandled. You haven't lived in these United States until you go through that.

:(
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. thank God such great care is so unaffordably expensive!
yes, sarcasm button flashing...
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