The Lebanese are blaming Bush/America for the bombings!

[Sparkle]

I just checked out the horrid video on rawstory of those poor innocent dead souls that got caught in the crossfire of Israeli bombs. It's also on youtube. In the middle of the video it has a Lebanese woman yelling and screaming blaming Bush for all of this. If enough people see this video that are unaware of what's going on, they will ask why is this woman blaming our president. They will realize what she is saying is that Israel got their long range missiles from America and therefore it is America's doing. And also how they are sitting there passively and allowing Israel to bomb Lebanon to smithereens.

[mmonk]

1. Weapons testing.

[Rosemary2205]

42. Youch

tin foil hat territory but a good point.........

[mmonk]

47. Actually,

a friend told me that years ago. Guess things don't change much.

[shance]

2. If the Bush Administration shoe fits....along with Israel being the other

foot.

[uppityperson]

3. like this story says? link here...

http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-07-22T050649Z_01_N21268027_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-BUSH-WEAPONS.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsHome-C1-topNews-1
US rushes precision-guided bombs to Israel: paper

The Bush administration is rushing a delivery of precision-guided bombs to Israel, which requested the expedited shipment last week after beginning its air campaign against Hizbollah targets in Lebanon, The New York Times reported on Saturday.

Citing U.S. officials who spoke on Friday on condition of anonymity, the Times said the decision to ship the weapons quickly came after relatively little debate within the administration, and noted in its report that its disclosure threatens to anger Arab governments and others who could perceive Washington as aiding Israel in the manner that Iran has armed Hizbollah.

The munitions are actually part of a multimillion-dollar arms-sale package approved last year which Israel is able to tap when it needs to, the officials told the Times. But some military officers said the request for expedited delivery was unusual and indicated that Israel has many targets it plans to hit in Lebanon....(more@link)

[Sparkle]

7. Thanks for the link!

I'm still fixated on that Lebanese woman. She was just a woman in the street that was saying all of this about America and we know if she believe that then the majority of the Lebanese people probably believe it. They must all HATE Bush!

[itzamirakul]

45. Bomb delivery truck in accident in New York

Yesterday there was an accident on one of the highways leading into or out of NYC. One of the trucks was discovered to have a missile as its only payload. Later in the day, brief announcements came on air telling the public that the bomb was not armed and was merely being transported. To where" We were not told.

[uppityperson]

51. seriously? transported by whom?

seems like that would be a good question to answer. I live near a military munitions storage base, no nukes, just BOOM things (du too), am alert for these sorts of accidents

[itzamirakul]

52. They showed a sort of "ariel shot" made from an overpass that just

showed the truck being taken away with the half-covered missile showing.

It was oneof those things that you don't pay a lot of attention to until you hear the word "missile." I had heard about the accident between two trailer tractors itself on the 5AM news on ABC. The wrap up, or when the word "missile" was used was during the 5PM news on NBC.

The newscaster mentioned the weapon and then quickly stated that it was an unarmed missile...sort of "just an empty shell."

They then moved on to an new topic.

[niceypoo]

4. The armageddon valley is in Lebanon.....

....do the math...

[BrotherBuzz]

21. Armageddon is in Israel...do the Geography

Armageddon is today known as Megiddo- a small town in northern Israel

The Mount of Megiddo is located on the south side of the Plain of Esdraelon, or Plain of Jezreel, running from Haifa to below Nazareth in northern Israel. On the opposite side of the valley can be seen Nazareth, the home town of Jesus Christ until His ministry began, when He moved to Capernaum on the north shore of The Sea Of Galilee.

The name Megiddo is derived from the original Hebrew word pronounced har-Megiddon, from which we get the English pronunciation Armageddon - a name well familiar to those who study Bible Prophecy. Megiddo in Hebrew means something like rendezvous, or place of troops.

[Erika]

5. The Lebanese are praising Hazbollah

As the group who really cares. CNN had a testimony from a Lebanese woman who said Hazbolla built hospitals and truly cared about the low income. No wonder Bush hates them. Bush does not do low income people. If they weren't smart enough to be born of upper class, they deserve nothing.

[cynatnite]

11. Hezbollah ain't stupid...

they need the PR so they can bomb the shit out of Israel and kill as many Jews as possible. That's been the case for years.

Aside from the dead bodies on both sides, this is also a PR war.

[Erika]

15. No, Israel is the one bombing the shit out of Lebanon

All you need to do is to look at the casualties of each side. I will never forget that long trench of Lebanese dead, with many of the coffins under three feet.

That is not defensible to me. Think as you may.

[cynatnite]

22. And Hezbollah isn't full of saints either...

They are a terrorist organization. They will kill as many Jews as they can. They want to completely destroy Israel. That's their mission statement.

I don't blame Israel for wanting to take them out. I do blame Israel for the horrid response to having their soldiers kidnapped.

I blame Israel for not working with the Lebanese government once Syria was out. That was a prime opportunity to force Hezbollah out with the help of the US. Instead both Israel and the US sat on their hands while Hezbollah strengthened their position.

Now, we've got Israel ready to invade and Lebanon looking to side with Hezbollah as a way of defending themselves.

If this thing isn't stopped now we'll have a wide spread Middle Eastern war with Syria and Iran throwing their hats in the ring.

[madeline_con]

31. Why are soldiers "kidnapped"? Isn't the term POW?

:shrug:

Hezbollah has the right to defend innocent civilians.

[Warren Stupidity]

49. The term is 'captured'.

Soldiers taken prisoner in a military operation are generally 'captured'. Kidnappings are reserved for civilians. The consistent use of the term kidnapping here by the MSM is editorial.

[madeline_con]

62. Yes, captured. The word escaped me.

But then they become POWs, not "kidnap victims". The use of the word "kidnap" is subtle and has a completely different connotation than "captured". The MSM should be called to task for such irresponsible comments.

There was an old guy who surrendered to US troops in Iraq shortly after the war began. (I wish I could remember his name!) The point is, FOX reported he had been "captured", while most everyone else less RW used the term "surrendered himself to US troops".

[chimpymustgo]

44. The ARE actually DEAD BODIES - overwhelmingly Lebanese! Innocent people

being maimed, murdered, displaced.

PR? You'll never win with this body count.

[chill_wind]

6. They know all those bombs in effect have our names on them

literally made/paid for by the USA and figuratively, thanks to Bush and Rice's and Congress's blessing to use them. We will pay for this in due time.

The whole world is watching.

[Sparkle]

8. You are 100% correct!

And this scares the daylights out of me. :scared:

[Erika]

10. Rummy and Saddam warmly greeting each other

would give a clue to the moral basis of the GOP, if they were smart enough to listen and digest.

[chill_wind]

13. We will pay

and our children's coming generation will pay worse, I fear.

[Erika]

20. Yes, W has introduced hate into the next generation

Bill Clinton declared a peace dividend. W's warmongering is guaranteeing generations of terrorism.

But that's good for his corporate buds. He does have his priorities.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

14. Don't get too sanctimonious. We have been building Israel's

military machinery long before Bush and Condi came along.

[Erika]

17. We've paid so much to Israel that they should have become

our 51st state. Maybe then we could recoup a little of the taxes they've taken from us.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

19. Well they have been our launch point in the M.E. for sometime

so that we could better protect our oil interest in the region. And for that they were doing us a favor. But the role they are playing now in the neo-cons scheme for complete domination in the region, I have some real qualms about.

[chill_wind]

I know the record well. n/t

[madeline_con]

32. Are people really this....

I don't want to use the word "ignorant", but naive about the Israeli lobby in Washington? :wtf:

[Cha]

58. You still defending bush and conjob?

Why are you still here?

[Freedom_from_Chains]

61. I wasn't defending them in the first place.

How one could come to that conclusion is beyond my ability to fathom. :shrug:

Perhaps it comes from engaging ones mouth before engaging their brain.

[unkachuck]

26. yep....

....and we'll start paying for it with $5 a gallon gas in two weeks....

[upi402]

9. "The Americans..."

I heard an audio feed from a Lebanese woman saying as much.

[Erika]

12. W building hatred and discontent. He does that so well. n/t

[greguganus]

16. and Israel can blame Iran...

...for supplying Hezbollah with their long range missles.

[Erika]

18. The missles Israel used against the Lebanese innocents

were American. And we paid for them.

[MGD]

25. Do you have some kind of a link to verify that?

I only ask because I know Israel has a massive military industrial complex of its own and produces its own munitions.

[radwriter0555]

33. You mean like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1700586

[madeline_con]

34. First, Hi dee ho , and welcome

In addition, the U.S. sells Israel the engines for its "indigenous" Merkava main battle tank. In 1999 Israel purchased 400 power packs for their Merkava fleet. The Merkava was developed by Israel so that it wouldn't have to rely on "fickle" countries like Britain, France or Russia when it was in the midst of a conflict.

Transactions between the U.S. and Israel are not necessarily worrisome by themselves; after all, as Israel has proved, there are a host of countries willing to sell the weapons it needs. Currently, Germany is Israel's source for submarines, and if Israel really needed fighters, Russia is always looking to make a buck and always seems to have a surfeit of aircraft and other excess defense articles.

The real danger comes in Israel's habit of reverse engineering U.S. technology and selling to nations hostile to U.S. interests. Israel's client list includes Cambodia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, the South Lebanon Army, India, China, Burma and Zambia. The U.S. has most recently warmed up to India and is now in fact competing with Israel for arms sales there, but the other Israeli customers remain dubious at best.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0509-07.htm

Israel: Caterpillar Should Suspend Bulldozer Sales
Weaponized Bulldozers Used to Destroy Civilian Property and Infrastructure
(New York, November 23, 2004)--Caterpillar Inc., the U.S.-based heavy-equipment company, should immediately suspend sales of its powerful D9 bulldozer to the Israeli army, Human Rights Watch said today. As Human Rights Watch documented in a recent report, the Israeli military uses the D9 as its primary weapon to raze Palestinian homes, destroy agriculture and shred roads in violation of the laws of war.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/11/22/isrlpa9711.htm

U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact

http://www.washington-report.org/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm

[MGD]

37. Thank you for the warm welcome

The poster in question, however, said this: "The missles Israel used against the Lebanese innocents were American." I have, as of yet, not seen anything to support this statement. If this can be shown to be true (and I don't mean "truthy"), I'll eat crow but, until then, I remain unconvinced.

[madeline_con]

41. The story's different on misslies

NRDC: Nuclear Notebook

Israeli nuclear forces, 2002


A senior Israeli defense official confirmed that Dolphin-class subs carry modified U.S. Harpoon anti-ship missiles. Making them nuclear-capable would require an Israeli-developed nuclear warhead and guidance kit for land-attack targets. It is unknown whether the missiles have that modification. In March 2000, the United States rejected Israel's request for 12 long-range BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles. The Tomahawk sea-launched cruise missile exists in a nuclear-tipped version for delivery by U.S. attack subs.

http://www.thebulletin.org/article_nn.php?art_ofn=so02norris
As for the land-based variety, my research indicates Israel has home grown stuff, too.

[chill_wind]

27. Israel has a past history of its own in selling arms to Iran.

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1186/8611002.html

Nobody in this is clean when it comes to "spreadin' freedom and democracy."

Fekkers, all.

[chill_wind]

28. Israel is ranked fourth among the world’s arms suppliers.

According to this CRS Report march 2006.

And reportedly China's second major supplier, after Russia.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB82008.pdf

Your American tax dollars at work.

[MGD]

23. America is damned for interfering in the affairs of one country

and damned for not interfering in the affairs of another. What's more, the last time we interfered in the affairs of the Lebanese, it cost us the lives of 282 Marines.

[JackNewtown]

38. We are interfering in Lebanon by sponsoring Israel's actions

We provide the necessary military, economic, and diplomatic support that allows Israel to maintain its posture and we are vetoing world efforts to try to resolve this crisis through diplomacy. The world knows this and unfortunately this will only increase the terrorist threat to the USA.

If the US were a detached third party in this few people would criticize the US.

[MGD]

40. Israel is an ally. America should support its allies, yes?

What's more, Israel is engaged in a war against terrorists and, as we are currently fighting a "global war on terror" in response to the 9-11 attacks, this action is consistent with our national policy regarding terrorists and the states who harbor terrorists. Furthermore, our support for Israel, our ally, would not be interfering with Lebanon's business if Iran and Syria hadn't undermined the legitimate government of that country by supporting Hezbollah to the tune of about $200,000,000 a year.

[JackNewtown]

46. "America should support its allies, yes?"

1) Support our allies by bombing our ally in Lebanon and undermining the fragile pro-US government? Undermine the second of only two Arab democracies, a government that we created too?
2) No, we should never blindly support any other nation. The US is correct in opposing Turkish military action in Kurdish areas in Iraq. It is not in the US' national interests. Would you support a Turkish invasion of northern Iraq? If it is not in America's national interest, the USA should not support it.
3) This action is not consistent with our policy. Ask Turkey.
4) Yes, we are in a war on terror--and blind support for anything Jerusalem does is the chief reason so many people hate America in the Muslim world. Having a fair and pro-peace, even if pro-Israel, ME policy, would be the best way to reduce the terrorist threat against the USA. Blind support for occupation and settlement for Palestinian lands only fuels more hatred. Notice how no other country blindly supports Israel? That is no accident...
5) It is not in the national interest of the US to be perceived as vetoing diplomacy. We should have given it a chance. If it didn't work, the fighting could resume. To basically singlehandedly veto diplomacy gave us yet another huge black eye in the world, particularly the ME and Muslim world. It will only fuel more anti-US terror.

I favor giving diplomacy a chance. Moreover, doing so is clearly in the US' national interest. If it doesn't work, let Israel resume its operation against Hezbollah, but call on it to limit itself to attacking Hezbollah and not decimating Lebanon's infrastructure and hence undermine our ally, the government we helped create. The spread of democracy in the ME is key to winning the war on terror and to undermine the second arab democracy is not wise for the USA.

I am primarily concerned with America's national interest, not Israel's interests or the particulars of the conflict. Those things are secondary to me. If I were an Israeli I would support the Olmert government completely.

How can you complain about the Lebanese government being undermined by Syria and Iran when you support Israel undermining that very government?

[laura888]

56. Well said. n/t

[JackNewtown]

66. Thanks nt

:)

[MGD]

57. Yes, America should support its allies.

1.) "Support our allies by bombing our ally in Lebanon and undermining the fragile pro-US government?"

The "pro-US government" is infiltrated and undermined with Iranian/Syrian money and agents. Had Lebanon complied with UNR 1559, none of this would be happening period.

2.)"No, we should never blindly support any other nation."
Our support for Israel is hardly blind.

3) "This action is not consistent with our policy."
Our policy is to make no distinction between terrorists and the nations who support terrorism. This is consistent with that policy. I understand that this may make me come off as sounding a bit neo-conish. In domestic matters, I will side with a liberal democrat 9/10 times. In matters of foreign policy, specifically, in combatting terrorists, I'm a bit more hawkish.

4) "Yes, we are in a war on terror--and blind support for anything Jerusalem does is the chief reason so many people hate America in the Muslim world."
We are in a war. It is perfectly natural for our enemies to hate us. That's no reason to abandon our allies when they are doing the right thing for the right reasons.

5) It is not in the national interest of the US to be perceived as vetoing diplomacy. We should have given it a chance. If it didn't work, the fighting could resume. To basically singlehandedly veto diplomacy gave us yet another huge black eye in the world, particularly the ME and Muslim world. It will only fuel more anti-US terror.

It is not in our national interest to abandon allies and to retreat from our enemies either. Furthermore, we have given diplomacy a chance and it didn't work. This is the result. Diplomacy, at this point will be, at best, appeasement and, at worst, capitulation.

6.) "The spread of democracy in the ME is key to winning the war on terror and to undermine the second arab democracy is not wise for the USA."

It was already undermined as previously noted.

7.) "I am primarily concerned with America's national interest"
As am I.

[wtmusic]

64. #4 -- so the Muslim world is our enemy?

:shrug:

[JackNewtown]

67. Responses

1) They do not control the government. The vast majority of the government, and the controlling part, is pro-US. The US helped create this government, after all.

I agree with you on Lebanon complying with UN Res. 1559, but surely you can see the irony in someone defending Israel's actions citing UN resolutions! When is Israel going to comply with UN resolutions??? If Israel ended its occupation of Palestine, there would be a real chance of achieving peace in the region but taking land is more important than peace to the Likud/Kadima types.

2) It is under Bush. When has Bush opposed Israel? Moreover, we are blind at the UN and have been for years. Sometimes we ask for certain language to be included in a resolution. Then, when it is added, we still veto it in a 13-1 or 14-1 vote claiming it was "unbalanced."

3) That isn't our policy. It is just a nice soundbite for the public. The US routinely violates that. Ask Cuba, Turkey, and a few other nations.

Moreover, that isn't applicapable here. The White House does not blame the Lebanese governmet for this, although Tel Aviv does and Congress implicitly does (no other part of any government in the world does aside from Israel's government and Congress..). If that logic were applied Israel would be attacking Syria and Iran.

4) You are implying that all Muslims are our enemies. That is wrong. The #1 reason Muslims hate us anyway is our I/P policy. This will only increase that problem and hence fuel more terrorist recruitment. We are in a WOT and I want to win that war. In order to do that we must have a sane policy on Israel-Palestine.

We abandoned our ally Lebanon for something it had no control over. Lebanon is arguably more important to the US right now than Israel, given the importance of democratization in the Arab world.

5) Few people want to abandon Israel. What most people, including myself, are calling for is Israel to focus on Hezbollah, not collectively punish the most pro-US Arabs, and for diplomacy to be given a chance.

[wtmusic]

63. Ah, the "global war on terror" nonsense again

Terrorists are no different than the IDF or the Marines--except their weapons are not as sophisticated.

[chill_wind]

24. Meanwhle, we're getting out a fresh *rush order*! NYT reporting.

NYT reporting US rushing more precision-guided munitions to Israel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2406106


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2405798

[bigdarryl]

29. Lebanese blaming US

And Condi is supposed to be going to the Middle East to get support from our SO CALLED arab allies against Hozbollah. she can get support from those governments and dictatorships only because the US is going to promise them something in returned but she can't get the support of the arab people in those countries. TOTAL BULLSHIT!! they will try and make Bush the peace maker in this whole thing watch and see.

[Laughing Mirror]

30. If Bush ordered Israel "Stop this instant!" Israel would stop this instant

The Lebanese realize this simple truth. So does Israel.

[MGD]

35. I doubt it. Israel is seriously intransigent about these things

and America is not in the best of positions to be making demands like that right now. What's more, both parties have overwhelmingly supported Israel's right to fight this fight already.

[JackNewtown]

36. Reagan ordered Begin to stop in the 80's...

...within 20 minutes Begin called Reagan back to inform him that he had ordered an end to the bombing of Beirut. Israel had been bombing the Lebanese capital for 11 consecutive hours before Reagan had enough.

[Warren Stupidity]

48. We just have to stop the funding and Israel will heel real quick.

Israel cannot sustain its military without our direct and huge subsidies. If the cabal wanted to end this war today they could end this war today.

[MGD]

53. Do you really think that will solve everything/anything?

Do you really think Israel can't find other sources of money? Do you really think Israel doesn't already have huge reserves of cash and gold? Do you think that Iran will stop the funding of terorist organizations that undermine the democracies of the middle east simply because we have retreated in the war on terror? By cutting off funding for Israel, we will be abandoning an ally in their time of need, an ally who is only doing what we can not, killing the terorists that are undermining Lebanon's legitimate government. We would also be throwing them into the kind of desperate situation that would call for desperate measures. No, with all do respect for your concerns, I'm afraid I don't support a policy of abanonment, appeasement, and retreat. I fully support their continued efforts to destroy Hezbollah. It is regrettable that the Lebanese government has chosen to side with the organization that is responsible for the mess it is in. I sincerely hope that when this matter is concluded, the Hezbollah puppets are routed from Lebanon; diplomatic relations can resume; and that Lebanon is rebuilt with all haste.

[Little Star]

59. And Lebanon should be rebuilt

with all those huge reserves of cash and gold that Israel has. They broke it they should have to pay for it.

[Warren Stupidity]

60. Solve everything? Of course not.

Solve anything? Yeah I think our huge subsidy to Israel is extremely important to them. We obviously have enormous clout.

"By cutting off funding for Israel, we will be abandoning an ally in their time of need"

Excuse me? Israel is not threatened by Hezbollah. Israel might be irritated by Hezbollah's actions but Hezbollah does not represent a military threat to Israel. The only country here 'in a time of need' is Lebanon, which is currently being invaded by a vastly superior army, blockaded by a navy when it has none, and under a continuous bombardment from an air force against which it has no defense.

The threat to cut off aid would be sufficient to bring Israel back to its senses. Yes that would solve something, it would end the current war.

Just because Israel is our ally does not mean that we have to give them a blank check to do anything they want.

[Laughing Mirror]

50. and both parties are wrong

How would Israel keep terrorizing Palestine & Lebanon if we shut down the money machine funding it?

Who would pay for it?

[JackNewtown]

39. "they hate us for our freedom"

When will the US public get it?

[Rosemary2205]

43. Bush is not a PEACEMONGER so stop saying that

-- I miss that DU writer..........

[KansDem]

54. Why not? If Bush can blame Iraq for 9/11, then why not? (eom)

[sinogirl]

55. Is there any doubt the US are to blame

Bush is currently rushing 1000's of missile guide rockets to Israel ...

[Ms. Clio]

65. the jet fuel and the rush delivery of precision bombs might explain it

The U.S. is a willing partner in this horror.

[catbert836]

68. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

The United states has supported Israeli apartheid and now, invasion of an ally over real peace in the region for the past 60 years. We have funded the oppresion of Palestinians in their own country, and now our government is an active aid to mass destriction in another innocent country.