Gandhi & King on Poverty and Violence

[H2O Man]

"Poverty is the worst form of violence." -- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

The increasing violence in the Middle East is evidence that human beings do not "control" violence, but rather that violence is a force that often spins humanity out of control. In these times, I believe that it is especially important that we look to the examples set by some of the enlightened human beings who have attempted to remind us of our humanity in times of violent crisis.

The violence against the children in the Middle East is a terrible thing. It should make no difference to us, as human beings, if those children come from families that live in Israel or an Arab state. It should not matter if their parents are Jewish or Isllamic. The violence that is destroying their lives should be unacceptable.

My goal in this thread is not to debate which side is more "right" or "wrong" in the conflict in the Middle East .... or on DU. A number of the posts from each side have reminded me of Gandhi's saying that "intolerance betrays a want of faith in one's cause." Or, as Albert Camus warned, "To justify himself, each relies on the other's crime."

Rather, I think it is more important to concentrate on a concept that Camus expressed in a quote that moved Senator Robert F. Kennedy: "We are faced with evil. I feel rather like Augustine did before becoming a Christian when he said, 'I tried to find the source of evil and I got nowhere. But it is true that I and a few others knew what must be done if not to reduce evil at least not to add to it.' Perhaps we cannot prevent this world from being a world in which children are tortured. But we can reduce the number of tortured children. And if you believers don't help us, who in the world can help us do this?"

In the wonderful movie "Gandhi" -- which I suggest that DUers watch this weekend -- there is a moving scene which addresses the struggle between hatred and Gandhi-consciousness. It is late in the movie, when the violence between Hindu and Muslim families leads to children suffering. A father comes to the Mahatma, burdened by the hatred that resulted from a Muslim killing his child. Gandhi tells the man to find an orphaned Muslim child the same age as his son had been, and to adopt him. And Gandhi instructs the man to raise the child as a Hindu.

The hatred between the Hindu and Muslim families in Gandhi's day is the exact same disease as the hatred between Jew and Muslim in the Middle East today. Gandhi, of course, was killed by a man who suffered from the moral rabies that caused him to hate Gandhi for his love of Muslims. It is the same disease that took Martin Luther King, Jr.'s life in this country. I have been taught that hatred and bitterness contaminate the vessels which contain it. It contaminates groups as well as individuals.

There has been discussion on Martin's views on Israel on several threads in the past 48 hours. It is, in my opinion, important that we never attempt to use Martin or the Mahatma to justify violence. It is equally important to recognize that Martin did not take a narrow, one-sided view of the conflict in the Middle East. Two quotes from Taylor Branch's 3rd book in his series on America in the King years (At Canaan's Edge) strike me as important:

{1} "On the Middle East, King thought a complex peace required security for Israel and development for the Arab Nations. 'The whole world and all people of good will must respect the territorial integrity of Israel,' he said, listing the vital ports and trade routes. He proposed also a 'Marshall Plan' to relieve desperate poverty among the mass of Arab citizens and refugees. 'So long as they find themselves on the outskirts of hope,' he said, 'they are going to make intemperate remarks. They are going to keep the war psychosis alive'." (page 624)

{2} "To answer a volley of protest from Jewish political leaders, and at least thirty letters from rabbis, King busily disclaimed the NCNP's unbalanced resolution against Israel. 'Israel's right to exist as a state in security is incontestable,' King wrote to Morris Abram, president of the American Jewish Committee. 'At the same time the great powers have the obligation to recognize that the Arab world is in a state of imposed poverty and backwardness that must threaten peace and harmony'." (page 639)

Those quotes are from the time of the Six Day War in the Middle East. The hatred and violence there would create a significant split in the Civil Rights movement in the US that we should be aware of. Branch's book documents how some Jewish Americans who had supported King's nonviolent approach in this country embraced the policies of violence taken by the Israeli leaders. These democrats would split from the Civil Rights movement, and begin what we know of as the neoconservative movement. Thus, what happened then is surely connected to events today.

Today we need to heal the growing divisions among the human family. I will end with a story from "The Soul of a Butterfly," Muhammad Ali's reflections on his life's journey. He told of his always wanting to meet the Dalai Lama. In 2003, he would get the opportunity at the opening of an interfaith temple near Bloomington, Indiana. "Leaders from sixteen religions and denominations were there to speak. The Dalai Lama wanted to impress upon everyone that 'all religions have the same potential and capacity to serve humanity.' He stressed that religious teachings should be a part of all of our lives. I understand that there are many paths to God, and I believe Islam is the correct path for me. Like the Dalai Lama, I respect people of different religious beliefs and agree that spirituality should be a central focus of our daily lives. Spirituality helps us achieve self-discipline, forgiveness, and love, which are so essential to a peaceful existence living among others."

Ali delivered a brief speech to those assembled: "We live in a world intoxicated by power and wealth. We have countries struggling against each other, nations taking advantage of weaker nations, men and women being killed, wounded, and uprooted by war.

"With all that we've accomplished through history, we have yet to master peace. It is easier for most people to fight fire with fire, hatred with hatred, and injustice with vengeance.

"There comes a time in everyone's life when he has to take a good look at himself and stop pointing the finger. We have to make an effort to be kind to others, even toward those we don't know. It is through selfless acts that we inspire change."

[panader0]

1. Great post. Where are the non-violent leaders of today?

[gratuitous]

2. Well, Tom Fox got killed, as did Rachel Corrie

And the popular media seem to delight in calling them "nuts" or worse. Unsurprisingly, the names Cliff Kindy, Dale Brown, and Walter Wink don't seem to show up on the talk show line-ups. Preaching against our national myth of redemptive violence just isn't very newsworthy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Here

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/

http://www.gsfp.org/

http://www.mfso.org/

http://www.ivaw.net/

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/

[Pacifist Patriot]

61. I'm going to put something out there that is likely to sound horrible.

I love my children more than I could ever have imagined. I wouldn't give them up for the world and am working like hell to hopefully leave them a world in which they can thrive.

But if I had known ten years ago what today was going to look like, I probably would not have had children. I'd be stumping my ass off around the globe bellowing as loudly as I can about the evils of poverty and violence.

It would be so easy to alleviate if people would stop thinking about themselves for a moment. The hoarding mentality is epidemic. Inequality matters! The gap between the highest wage earners and the lowest is not only insane, it's evil. It is a moral wrong. Not investing in our children's futures by building bigger bombs instead of better schools is a moral wrong.

The conservative "memes" of welfare cheats and homeland security and traditional family values are harming, not helping. They aren't just mistaken at this point they are dangerously wrong.

Oh goodness, it's hard to stop once I get going. And I have a three year old to go hug tightly.

It may take a few year, but give me a little time until my children are old enough to be more independent and I've got the energy and resources to add my prophetic voice to the choir. I'll be more than happy to get out front and make people uncomfortable with what I have to say. For now it will have to be restricted to the pulpit an average of two Sundays a month, but I'm trying.

[PA Democrat]

4. Great post, H2O Man

"To justify himself, each relies on the other's crime." How true.

[Me.]

5. I Think We Should Be Re-Framing Our Thoughts

Instead of being anti-war, we should be pro-peace, instead of focusing on what we don't want, "point a finger" at what we do want, what we have in common.

*shadow government*

[Akoto]

6. You know, I heard a very similar line in a movie ...

It's called The Secret, and it's about how the perspective/way in which we think can shape the world around us.

[Me.]

17. Fabulous

Word is getting round. I saw that movie and it was a lovely confirmation of what I had begun thinking. After four years of cringing in fear of what "they" might do to us next, I decided to look more at what was being positively done, the gains being made in so many areas, however slowly. There are many people out there, in our world, working to create a better place/environment for all of us and that is where we should be placing our emphasis and energy. I also believe that bringing things forward into the light is a positive step, insisting on transparency in government and truth for that makes them answerable to us. We can't question what we don't know about or see. It is one of the reasons the Plame case has been so important, for it showed the B*** admin for what they really are and, if the point hadn't been made before, demonstrates why we shouldn't want them leading us. A question was asked upthread about where are the leaders of today, the true ones, our Martins and Gandhis. I have my eyes out and one person they are watching is RFKjr. He has been a champion of the environment for so long and now has taken on the voting issue, that very singular act which is at the core of our democracy. He gives me hope and I'm sure his father and uncle would be very proud of him.

*shadow government*

[H2O Man]

22. In the beginning

of "The Voice of the Master," Kahlil Gibran writes: "I came here to be for all and with all, and what I do today in my solitude will be echoed Tomorrow by the multitude. What I say now with one heart will be said Tomorrow by thousands of hearts."

We sometimes here people -- perhaps ourselves! -- saying that they wish something could change the world. But, as I have been taught, he who bemoans the lack of opportunity often overlooks the fact that small doors frequently open into large rooms. We "change" the world every day. Each one of us does. For that which we do today impacts all of those surrounding us.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. Half the battle is attitude

and coming from a positive place rather then a negative place.

When you look at the world in fear and see everything has a threat it makes you sick and angry.

When you look at the world in wonder and see nothing but possibilities, you will be happy and healthy.

[H2O Man]

7. Three more from King's

greatest speech, "A Time to Break Silence" (aka "Beyond Vietnam"), which I think should be compared with three quotes taken from James Bamford's "A Pretext for War," which documents the Bush administration's agenda in the Middle East.

{1} "They question our political goals and they deny the reality of a peace settlement from which they will be excluded. Their questions are frighteningly relevant. Is our nation planning to build on political myth again and then shore it up with the power of new violence?"

vs

"The recommendations of Feith, Perle, and Wurmser was for Israel to once again invade Lebanon with air strikes. But this time, to counter potentially hostile reactions from the American government and public, they suggested using a pretext." (page 262)

{2} "Here is the true meaning and value of compassion and nonviolence when it helps us to see the enemy's point of view, to hear his questions, to know his assessment of ourselves. For from his view we may indeed see the basic weaknesses of our own condition, and if we are mature, we may learn to grow and profit from the wisdom of the brothers who are called the opposition."

vs

"But Bush just shrugged. 'Sometimes a show of strength by one side can really clarify things,' he said. 'Powell seemed startled,' said O'Neill." (page 266)

{3} "Now let us begin. Now let us rededicate ourselves to this long and bitter -- but beautiful -- struggle for a new world. This is the calling of the sons of God, and our brothers wait eagerly for our response. Shall we say the odds are too great? Shall we tell them the struggle is too hard? Will our message be that the forces of American life mitigate against their arrival as full men, and we send our deepest regrets? Or will there be another message, of longing, of hope, of solidarity with their yearnings, of commitment to their cause, whatever the cost? The choice is ours, and though we might prefer it otherwise we must choose in this crucial moment of human history."

vs

"Then he said it was time to end America's efforts in the region. 'I don't see much we can do over there at this point,' (Bush) said." (page 266)

[H2O Man]

8. Three more from Gandhi:

These are from "Gandhi on Non-Violence," by Thomas Merton. It is best to read the entire book, of course. But here are three quotes I think are important today:

{1} "The cause of liberty becomes a mockery if the price to be paid is the wholesale destruction of those who are to enjoy liberty."

{2} "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"

{3} "Liberty and democracy become unholy when their hands are dyed red with innocent blood."

[chimpymustgo]

9. H2O Man. Best. OP. Ever. Every DU'er should READ THIS. K & R!!!!

Kick, recommend, re-read.

Peace.

[H2O Man]

15. Thank you.

This is a difficult time for many people. There was a wonderful article in the Oneonta, NY newspaper yesterday, by a local high school graduate who had traveled to Israel for her summer vacation. She told of having a "raging three hour" argument with a close friend about what steps Israel should take next -- she is for an immediate cease fire, while he favors further military strikes in Lebanon. She said that after more than three hours, she said she was glad that theywere good enough friends they could strongly disagree, yet still make plans for the weekend.

It struck me that this beautiful young lady represented not only much of the best of the Jewish people, but of our entire human family. It reminded me of the teachings of the Haudenosaunee prophet known as the PeaceMaker,who noted that "all people whose minds are healthy can desire peace, and there is an ability within all people. especially the young, to grasp and hold strongly to the principles of righteousness."

This student set a good example for us.

[H2O Man]

10. Three more of RFK's choices:

These are from "Make Gentle the Life of This World," Maxwell Kennedy's tribute to his father:

{1} "I share with you the same revulsion from evil. But I do not share your hope, and I continue to struggle against this universe in which children suffer and die." -- Albert Camus

{2} "Tragedy is a tool for the living to gain wisdom, not a guide by which we live." -- William Appleman Williams

{3} "The innocent suffer -- how can that be possibl and God be just. All things are to be examined & called into question -- There are no limits set to thought." -- RFK scrawled these on a yellow sheet of paper after JFK's death.

[nam78_two]

11. k&r

'Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God' (Matthew 5 : 9).

[Skidmore]

12. You know why these great men were killed.

The powerful in the world feared they would succeed. What a loss this planet suffered. Their memories and teachings need to be passed on now more than ever to our children and grandchildren.

[H2O Man]

16. Yes, exactly.

Those from the dark side do not kill that which they hate, but rather those that they fear. Extremely important point.

[Solly Mack]

13. Thank you

[Little Star]

14. Thank You. We all need to hear these words now. n/t

[TahitiNut]

18. Ahhh... I voice of sanity in the cacophony of war-frenzy.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - M. Gandhi

It pains me to see so many wanting the "change" to be even more self-righteous violence, killing, and destruction.

Thank you, Mr. Waterman. Articulate, clear, and dead nuts on.

I almost NEVER say this, but "K&R!" :thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

20. "What you think,

you become." -- Gandhi

[TahitiNut]

25. "All that we are is a result of what we have thought." — Buddha

And I misquoted Gandhi ...
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." — Gandhi

These are the seminal quotes of my own personal ethic ... my pole stars by which I aspire to guide my inner compass, no matter how bumbling and stumbling I am along my path.

Paul Wellstone had it right, too ... "Never separate the words you speak from the lives you live." We lost a very rare politician with his death.

There is no room for blame and war-frenzy in this. None.

The iconic images I hold in my mind's eye are Rachel Corrie standing in front of the bulldozer and Tiananmen Man standing in front of the tank. Can I justify doing less? (Gad!)



One 'correction' to the Gandhi story, though. Mahatma prescribes that the Hindu man raise the orphan as a Muslim, not Hindu.

http://www.hsuyun.org/Dharma/zbohy/Literature/essays/czs/apology.html

The time is shortly after India gained independence from Great Britain in 1947. India is torn by civil strife; Muslims and Hindus are killing each other; and Gandhi is fasting to protest the violence and to jolt people into becoming aware of their terrible actions.

Gandhi is near death from starvation when a crazed man, a Hindu, arrives with food that he insists Gandhi must eat. He demands, "Here! Eat! Eat! I'm going to hell - but not with your death on my soul!"

Gandhi replies, "Only God decides who goes to hell."

"I killed a child!" the man confesses. "I smashed his head against a wall!"

Gandhi asks, "Why?"

"Because they killed our son... my boy! The Muslims killed my son!"

Gandhi sees the man's unbearable grief and remorse. He gently tells him, "I know a way out of hell. Find a child, a child whose mother and father have been killed - a little boy - and raise him as your own. Only be sure that he is a Muslim..."

The man's expression changes to one of hope. He suddenly sees a way in can undo what he has done and effect a restitution. He can replace his own son and provide a Muslim orphan with a home and parents. It is a perfect solution.

And then the Mahatma adds, "And you must raise him as a Muslim."

A look of horror and incredulity comes over the man's face. He had not counted on this degree of atonement. He drops to his knees and sobs.

[H2O Man]

28. Yes, as a Muslim.

I meant to write that. The time has passed, so I can't edit it now. But you are correct.

[TahitiNut]

29. It's what staggered me in that film, too.

I thought my memory was going (it's the 2nd thing to go for guys my age), so I had to find the cite to suppport it lest I was brain-farting.

I, too, thought that was an incredibly moving scene ... staggering in its wisdom.

[H2O Man]

31. It was a great scene

in a great movie.

I wish I could blame my memory for my silly error. But I remembered the scene just fine. (grin) I was even thinking "get this right!" when I typed it, because it is a key to understanding reconciliation.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. True wisdom

Thank you for reminding all of us of these wonderful people and the messages they believed in.

21. thanks for posting

It is always good to read your encouraging words.




Merton at Gethsemani

[H2O Man]

23. Nice picture!

Thanks for posting that!

32. I found something while looking through Merton passages

on the internet. I had been re-reading one of your essays on unearned suffering and this was on same topic. I still don't quite get the concept, but this seemed to be what you were saying also.



""Merely accepted, suffering does nothing for our souls except, perhaps, to harden them. Endurance alone is no consecration. … We can deny ourselves rigorously for the wrong reason and end up by pleasing ourselves mightily with our self-denial... Suffering is valuable
only as a test of faith. What if our faith fails the test? Is it good to suffer, then? What if we enter into suffering with a strong faith in suffering,and then discover that suffering destroys us?

To believe in suffering is pride: but to suffer, believing in God, is humility. For pride may tell us that we are strong enough to suffer, that suffering is good for us because we are good.

Humility tells us that suffering is an evil which we must always expect to find in our lives because of the evil that is in ourselves. But faith also knows that the mercy of God is given to those who seek God in suffering,and that by God’s grace we can overcome evil with good.

Suffering, then, becomes good by accident, by the good that it enables us to receive more abundantly from the mercy of God. It does not make us good by itself, but it enables us to make ourselves better than we are. Thus, what we consecrate to God in suffering is not
oursuffering but our selves.""

Thomas Merton, “To Know the Cross,” from No Man Is an Island


http://www.westwoodumc.org/sermons/2006sermons/Sermon%20SRW%2003.12.06.pdf

[H2O Man]

33. Gandhi said that

"Living Christ is a living cross. Without it life is a living death." Same idea.

[Mr_Spock]

26. Thank you.

I can only think of silly adjectives to say here, but your message is received loud & clear.

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. Thanks to the Internet

we can have these conversations in real time while the events are occurring. Never before in human history have we been able to achieve this level of communication. I believe that this new ability may be our one saving grace. The one thing that makes the difference that they didn't expect.

Despite the battles and tensions everywhere, including DU, one thing that is happening is that we are all talking to each other. We are asking each other questions that we have been afraid to ask for way too long. We are challenging each others deep seated belief and forcing each of us to see the world from other points of view.

Common myths are instantly questioned and quickly dispelled. In the process, we all become better informed, more rational and tolerant human beings. We are learning that there are better ways to solve problems, other then blowing each other up. I still believe, that when we finally get through this final phase of stupidity, we will all be better off and whoever is left will find a way to live in peace. We no longer have any other choice if we wish to survive has a species.

[annabanana]

30. k

sigh

[H2O Man]

34. Roses ....

Tending my roses helps me to think clearer, sometimes.

[Me.]

36. Oh M'Gosh

Lovely, just lovely.

*shadow governemnt*

[H2O Man]

42. More rain

in the northeast in the past 24 hours. Had to bring a few inside. The heavy rain doesn't help much as far as keeping the blooms going.

[Me.]

62. Came To Give This Thread A Kick

and see that it doesn't need it. Good, for on a sad Sunday morning beautiful flowers and lovely words are a good counterpoint.

*shadow government*

[bluerum]

35. Wonderful piece. nt

[Pithy Cherub]

37. The power of Grace is held by All, but used by the few.

Nelson Mandela epitomized the true essence of Grace by forgiving his captors so that he could march South Africa forward with all in attendance, rather than the selected few.

On Monday the astronauts were questioned about their thoughts on the Middle East and what they were thinking about. One member of the flight crew spoke up and said, the sight of the Earth from space is truly magnificent. There are no visible borders when you look at the Earth from space.

The belief and value systems change as we go from country to country. It would be best if we ALL could give each other Grace in full measure to reach a higher ground of the Common Good for All.

A truly beautiful and timeless post H20 Man. Peace unto everyone.

[wovenpaint]

38. Once again thank you for an eloquent post.

I feel that I can always count on you to provide wonderful words of wisdom that wash calmly over us.

I'd like share my favorite Ghandi quote (that I read frequently when these times seem too much for me to take.)

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS."
Gandhi

[chimpymustgo]

39. Big kick. Y'all read this, please. eom

eom

[Zan_of_Texas]

45. A place to get some very good quotes .....

You folks who like quotes will be in heaven if you go here -- progressive quotes from those you know, and those you don't.

Thousands, organized by topic.

When I need a lift, I go read about 50.

http://www.zmag.org/quotes/quotesmain.cfm

[H2O Man]

48. Thanks!

That's good to know.

[Time for change]

40. Very nice

Our world desperately needs more like that.

[lonestarnot]

41. I have a hard time being kind to repukes.

LOL, but I like your message.

[rosesaylavee]

43. Once again, another one of your posts

that moves me to tears and fresh understanding - and hope of resolution - of a difficult thorny issue. I am so thankful for DU and most especially thankful that you post here.

There comes a time in everyone's life when he has to take a good look at himself and stop pointing the finger. We have to make an effort to be kind to others, even toward those we don't know. It is through selfless acts that we inspire change."

I had no idea that Ali was such a deep one but can understand now why you have him as your avatar.

Thank you and blessings on you for providing us all with much needed insight.

Another Gandhi quote that gives me comfort:

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS.

[zippy890]

44. How to 'heal the growing divisions among the human family'?

powerful nations manipulate others through their religious differences.

Greed, hatred, religious differences, scarce resources(oil, water, land) explode into bloody war.

I appreciate your post and the ideals put forth, but differ with Muhammad Ali where he stresses that "religious teachings should be a part of all of our lives." this is part of the problem that we as a human race must let go of if we are to evolve, perhaps if we are to survive.

Spirituality without religious dogma from ancient text. Consciousness of the things we all have in common, this wondrous awesome planet earth that is our home.

I'm not expressing well what I want to say, I'm not that good of a writer.

Compassion, tolerance are what we should strive for. because we can, we are capable of it as human beings, it is the right path. We don't have to because god says we must We have to because we can, and that is a marvelous thing.

[H2O Man]

47. Right.

I think that Ali was speaking in the context of his going to a meeting of leaders from a variety of religions. It is equally important that as much respect be given to those who do not hold religious beliefs. That mutual respect is part of the compassion and tolerance that you accurately note we should strive for.

I like your saying, "We don't have to because god says we must. We have to because we can, and that is a marvelous thing." From my experience, I am convinced that we are indeed part of the life force in this beautiful, mysterious universe. And this universe holds forth unlimited possibilities for each of us. That is marvelous -- in fact, it is a miracle. We should be aware of the "because we can" that awaits us at every waking moment.

[bigtree]

46. ah, yes. the real 'root causes' were certainly understood by these men

[JanusAscending]

49. BRAVO ! BRAVO ! and AMEN Brother Waterman

You just succeeded in putting into words, so easily understood by most,....what I have been feeling the whole of my 67 years here on Gods good earth ! Thank you for your wonderful insight and faith, and your ability to put it into words, when sometimes there are no words, that express the depth of our souls. DC

[H2O Man]

55. Thank you.

I think that while a few DUers have very strong feelings about one side in the conflict being "right," and the other being "wrong," that the vast majority of DUers recognize that the violence taking place is causing the suffering of the innocent, and threatens to spread out of control. There have been numerous threads with the angry few arguing and pointing fingers. Maybe they need to do that. If so, then that's more reason to do this.

[JanusAscending]

58. You are most welcome !!

Just read a very good post by "cali" and referred the other contributers to your post, as a good follow up topic.

[bleever]

50. The failure to recognize that poverty is a form of violence

is perhaps the key flaw in the neo-con worldview.

They scoff at liberal notions about the "root causes" of violence as being weak-minded, and leading to appeasement.

Punishment and force are thus the most powerful tools they can wield. But no matter how high tech the weaponry, violence is always a blunt and primitive tool that can only perpetuate the cycle of violence, and never end it.

The genius of kindness and love is outside their reach. The notion that they should "lift up" their enemies by helping them to feed, protect, and grow their families is counter-intuitive to their fear-based arrogance. But there is no military force in the world that can end the will of a people to escape poverty and establish dignity and security for themselves.


Here's to everyone who believes and works for the idea that America can and must be an instrument of love.

[samsingh]

51. kick - good points

[wildeyed]

52. Thanks for the post.

I have been thinking a lot recently about nonviolence, religion and war and feeling like I need to make some kind of real commitment to the principles of nonviolence. I have also been mired about 1/3 of the way through the third Branch book, so maybe this post will give me the motivation to get through it.

[H2O Man]

56. I had finished

most of the book fairly soon after starting it. But when I got to early 1968, it became hard.

Branch, like Robert Caro in his wonderful series on LBJ, goes into great detail.

When I look at the news and think about what problems our country is facing (and creating for the future generations to face), Martin is probably the example I look to the most for considering our best options.

[wildeyed]

59. I zipped through the first two books,

but this one has been harder for me. Maybe too much time passed between reading #2 and #3 and I have lost track of the cast of characters. Maybe our own political times are so tumultuous right now that it is hard for me to concentrate on the past. Or maybe it is summer and I should just read the paperback mystery series I crave and not be too hard on myself.....

It is a fascinating series. It is interesting for me to see how those times have shaped these. I am awed by the amount of courage and discipline it took for those people to do what they did. Martin and the whole nonviolent movement has been the inspiration for me to get more active in my own community.

[H2O Man]

60. It was a fascinating

period in American history. I have a good friend who was associated with both Martin and Malcolm. One of the things I enjoy the most is getting him to talk about those days.

[Mythsaje]

53. I'm struck by a Taoist thought

"We strengthen those things we strive against."

[dweller]

54. Peace as a Civil Right

Once again the hopes of people of two nations are being smashed by weapons in the name of eliminating weapons. Let us abolish weapons of mass destruction at home. Joblessness is a weapon of mass destruction. Poverty is a weapon of mass destruction. Hunger is a weapon of mass destruction. Homelessness is a weapon of mass destruction. Poor healthcare is a
weapon of mass destruction. Poor education is a weapon of mass destruction. Discrimination is a weapon of mass destruction.

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20030210&s=kucinich

your post reminded me of this.

:kick: R,

peace.
dp

[kineneb]

57. Buddhist quote from Thich Naht Hahn

He has produced a large number of books addressing the human condition, based on Buddhist teachings.

The Five Mindfulness Trainings
(according to Thich Nath Hanh, www.plumvillage.org)

-First Training-

Aware of the suffering caused by the destruction of life, I am committed to cultivating compassion and learning ways to protect the lives of people, animals, plants, and minerals. I am determined not to kill, not to let others kill, and not to condone any act of killing in the world, in my thinking, and in my way of life.

-Second Training-

Aware of the suffering caused by exploitation, social injustice, stealing, and oppression, I am committed to cultivate loving kindness and learn ways to work for the well-being of people, animals, plants, and minerals. I am committed to practice generosity by sharing my time, energy, and material resources with those who are in real need. I am determined not to steal and not to possess anything that should belong to others. I will respect the property of others, but I will prevent others from profiting from human suffering or the suffering of other species on Earth.

The rest of his interpretation of the 5 precepts are here:
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/precepts.html