The Thing Neither The US or Israel Will Never, EVER Admit

[K8-EEE]

Can we all agree that the war in Iraq is LOST? As in, THE U.S. LOST and they just can't figure out how to position that or what to do about that fact with the elections coming in Nov?

Can you picture Bush saying, oh no...we lost, bummer. They CAN'T lose it, but they DID lose it.

That invasion and disastrous occupation and resulting theocratic control has made Israel much less secure, yes?

Can you picture Israel admitting that the US has put them in a horrible situation -- because the stage is set for an Iraq/Iran alliance?

I think the Lebanese people are paying for the things that cannot be said now. They are just throwing all the chips on the table and letting rip and hoping for a new WW. Did you see the Faux Nuz folks, that is there new line, NEW WORLD WAR, WORLD WAR III! They are getting that straight from Karl Rove too.

It's a put-up job folks.

No I don't want "a mushroom cloud" over the US and I don't want "Israel to not survive" but those two scenarios are equally implausible the way they present it. Hezbollah could not have "destroyed Israel" and Iraq could not have WMD's the US.

They made a big mess in Iraq and they are just trying to expand and get more support for a bigger, splashier "War On Terror."

God are we suckers or what?

[rodeodance]

1. It is very obvious that cheney bush are using the war on terror for the

Nov. elections--and along comes Israel situation so they capitalize on that.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. The stage is set for an Iran/Iraq/Syria/Lebanon

mutual aid and cooperation zone, with Iran being the heavyweight oil-funded leader of a unified opposition to the US-Israeli coalition. Look at a map. This is a huge contiguous region. The PNAC plan to wipe the slate clean in the middle east might very well result in a spectacular change in the geopolitical dynamics of the region, but not quite the one that the cabal intended. Our friends in this region, other than Israel, countries like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and even Pakistan on the far east side, are all despotic regimes of various flavors with all of them except perhaps Jordan clinging to power with the clock running out on their rule. The more we and the Israelis act like bullies, the more we are percieved to be occupiers and invaders at war with Islam, the more realistic a unified shiite dominated coalition opposed to us becomes.

[genie_weenie]

3. I think the problem is the definition of Lost.

What did the US lose? Right now the oil in Iraq is not being shipped out, but the US military is still safeguarding the assets and the goal is to gain the oil wealth of Iraq.

So, until the US is forced to leave without having taken a large amount of oil from the country, thereby creating a large amount of wealth for certain people in the US, I don't think the Masters of War consider it lost.

As for the 2560KIA and 20,000WIA Americans and the 50,000KIA Iraqis well let's be honest they don't matter...

[K8-EEE]

4. Lost As In, They Can't Win

Lost meaning, they will have to leave without controlling anything including the oil, there is no possible scenario that will make that original plan a reality; plus, the situation with our troops is awful and getting worse, and the whole mess is getting impossible to describe with any kind of optimism.

They can't do that "turning the corner" shit any more or interview some school or pet project or do any propaganda whatsoever from Iraq, it's in flames.

[genie_weenie]

5. Okay, by that definition, no.

Because the insurgents have not been able to completely destroy the infrastructure (pipelines from the north, receiving stations, processing plants, off-shore platforms) even though there have been attempts.

And we still have a compliant pseudo-Government which owes it's position to US Bayonets.

The deaths of Shia or Sunni do not matter, the destruction of Mosques do not matter, the deaths and maiming of Americans do not matter, the war crimes do not matter.

As long as we have forces and the oil can (Theoretically) be obtained we haven't lost. Of course, oil companies would like to get the oil and wealth sooner rather than later but they can always raise gas prices to over $3.50 to make up for the loss of expected revenue.

[Metta]

6. Since Iraq is a lost cause, they've moved on to the next little girl.

To paraphrase Bertold Brecht.

[Imagevision]

7. Iraq is a lost cause? Iraq's civil war is getting worse, Bush needs

to keep the news events off of Iraq, November isn't getting further away!
(6000 Iraq civilians killed in May- June this year)

[Metta]

9. Iraq is lost as far as neocon goals except looting our treasury.

Lost as in not going to be a democracy now, for many, many years.

[sinogirl]

8. Winning in Iraq may have been a US objective...

... but it wasn't the Neocon objective.


The Neocon got us into the war in the first place and their objective was purely to weaken Iraq... Objective achieved - We have a Civil War in Iraq.

Now Israel can concentrate on a pending issues - Hizbollah, followed by Syria. And the US can concentrate it's forces on Iran, with absolutely no fear of any opposition from Iraq, Pakistan or Afghanistan. Nor the Russian States in the North and the Puppet Arab Governments in the south.


US Forces can just pull out of Iraq - as it is no longer a threat to US NATIONAL SECURITY.... and it never was to start with How convenient to start a war with an objective that is achieved before the war starts. You have to give it to the Neocon for sheer boldness.....

[Metta]

10. Goal in Iraq: taking over, so we can have our way.

It will become painful for * et. al. when they realize that what goes around comes around.