All right. Who here supports LEBANON?

[catbert836]

Kindly throw aside the accusations of "Israeli apoligist", "Hezbollah supporter", or whatever other inflammatory label you prefer.

"Lebanon supporter" is what I hope we can all label ourselves.

I think we can all agree that it's unfortunate that Lebanon and the Lebanese people have suffered as a result of Israeli attacks, whatever their justification or lack thereof.

I think we can all agree that it's unfortunate that Hezbollah chose Lebanon as a base to attack Israel.

I hope we can all support the Lebanese people above Israel or whatever other party we favor in this conflict.

Whatever the reasons behind this conflict, which we clearly disagree on, I think we can all agree that the Lebanese people are, in the end, the innocent victims of both Israel and Hezbollah.

[ourbluenation]

1. Yep. And peace. n/t

[cboy4]

2. Can I borrow some butter from anyone?

:popcorn:

[catbert836]

4. I hope you are wrong.

My post was not intended to be inflammatory.

[jonnyblitz]

9. some won't like what you imply about Israel. I agree, though.

I will spare you my opinion of the IDF. :grr:

:hi:

[catbert836]

27. Your opinion probably matches my own.

I hope to keep that away from this thread, however. :hi:

[cboy4]

20. When you capitalize LEBANON like you did, you are shouting in

internets-speak.

I doubt Jewish DUers and other who support Israel appreciate, for one thing, the tone of your post.

That's all :hi:

[catbert836]

26. I see what you are saying.

But I don't see why even Israel supporters on this site wouldn't also support the Lebanese people.

[hlthe2b]

3. Absolutely...... Peace for all.

[valerief]

5. I used to watch the Danny Thomas Show. Does that count?

[catbert836]

7. Hmmm?

Kindly explain.

[Contrary1]

16. Danny Thomas was Lebanese. n/t

[catbert836]

19. I see. Thank you.

[TripeOmatic]

31. And then there was the 'Golden Girls' episode where Blanche

Devereux couldn't figure out how Danny Thomas could be Lebanese ... because, well, wasn't he a man?

[catbert836]

32. LOL

:rofl:

[blonndee]

35. Ha ha, you beat me to it. I thought of that immediately.

But I think it was something along the lines of, "What's the big deal? Danny Thomas is a lesbian, too!" :rofl:

[TripeOmatic]

44. I think you're right -

I just couldn't recall how exactly they worked up to that one.

[blonndee]

47. Well, I'm embarrassed to say I think I do remember.

LOL. It was when one of the Girl's friends came to visit (can't remember which one, but I think Rose) and I think she came out to Rose and may have even expressed some feelings for her.

My gosh. Golden Girls. One of those shows I'm embarrassed to say that I think was pretty damned good, and even catch a rerun of it now and then. :rofl:

[TripeOmatic]

56. Well, I think it's one of those shows that no one should be embarrassed

to recall. Great writing is great writing - even if it's in farcical sitcom form.

[blonndee]

61. You're right!

I guess my old junior high fears haven't quite faded away yet. Nobody my age (back then) would ever admit to watching it. Although now that I think about it, they knew enough to talk about it an awful lot...

But I am now outing myself and will wear the badge of Golden Girls fan proudly! :hi:

[Webster Green]

18. He was a Lebanese/American comedian...

Had a weekly TV sit-com in the late 50's and/or early 60's.

Very funny!

[valerief]

24. And Danny Thomas started St. Jude's Hospital that treats kids

with cancer. Just some Lebanese-American background that's totally off-topic.

[Jazzgirl]

49. St. Judes in Memphis I believe??

n/t

[valerief]

57. Yeah, I think that's where it is. I'm pretty old, and when I was a

kid I watched Make Room for Daddy with Danny Thomas, which morphed into the Danny Thomas Show. It was one of my favorite shows. So when I think of Lebanon, I think of Danny Thomas not Hezbollah.

[OzarkDem]

50. And his daughter Marlo, a loyal and active Dem

Remember how she chewed out her husband, Phil Donohue when he supported Nader in 2000?

[valerief]

54. Phil supported Nader? Didn't know that.

[OzarkDem]

60. Yeah, she was pretty upset, IIRC n/t

[TripeOmatic]

64. Marlo Thomas is still St. Jude's National Outreach Director

and no one's push-over. Now there's a concerned citizen with her dad's values. We'll see how the Bush twins turn out shortly.

[Monkeyman]

6. Peace is the only way

[bdamomma]

8. I support Lebanon and Iraq

these people have been both victims of this deadly regime, I believe the US is totally behind this all. Plus as a American-Armenian, there are many Armenians who live in Beirut and even in Iraq. As a American-Armenian my own people were massacred by the Ottoman Turks in 1915 so there is some sort of connection there. And I have also been proud to say that the Armenians,Lebanese, Syrians and Greeks we are all related for our rich and diverse cultures.

[catbert836]

13. I agree.

And I have studied the Armenian genocide, it is terrible what happened to your people.

[bdamomma]

21. and to this present day there are many Turks who don't want

to recognize that a genocide ever took place.

[catbert836]

22. That was one aspect

I was most horrified by. Did you hear about the Turkish author (I forget his name), who came close to being prosecuted for criticizing his government for the denial of the genocide?

[bdamomma]

23. and to this present day there are many Turks who

don't want to acknowledge that a genocide ever took place.

sorry about the double post, my computer went crazy.

I support peace for all people.

[ladjf]

29. Over 100,000 Iraqi's dead, the country in shambles. Lebanon

and Palestine have just been bombed back at least 15 years. How will those people ever get the courage to rebuild knowing that Israel and the U.S. will simply come in a wipe them out when ever they feel like too much progress has been made?

As far as I can tell, the Hezbollah aren't exactly "acing" the IQ tests. The bottle rockets into Haifa are doing more harm to their cause than good. Yet, the Hezbollah are a movement. And if every man on the current membership poll were killed tomorrow, Israel's Hezbollah problem would not be solved. Members can be replaced by madder and perhaps smarter ones.

The old saying "Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" should remind the Israelis that their Country is the quintessential "glass house". They are highly vulnerable to a mass wipe out. I'm sure that they know that. But what they don't seem to know that jack booted adventures such as the current ones in Palestine and Lebanon make them more likely, not less likely, to be severely attacked and I'm not referring to small rockets into North Israel.

I am curious as to whether they are doing this on orders from the U.S., or on their own, or both?

The Israelis are claiming that Iran has given Hezbollah $100 million in aid. That would buy three fighter planes, not much of a help against the 300+ that Israel has.

While I'm on a rant, I wish that Iran's leaders would shut the hell up. They seem to be doing exactly what Bush wants them to do. I'm a cynical person but I can't believe that the President of Iran is on the take from the U.S. That's way too impossible. His actions, as well as the head of the parliament, are helping the U.S. administration justify strikes in Iran and although Iran is large, the Israeli and U.S. air power could do the same thing to them that Israel just did to Lebanon. (all except the deep underground nuke facilities).

It seems as though the leaders of Israel, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran are all crazy. Maybe there is some grand strategy here that is totally invisible to me.

[bloom]

42. as do I - nt

[blonndee]

10. I do!! nt

[cynatnite]

11. I support peace

I'm sick of these 'who supports who' threads.

Peace is the only way to go and sane people should strive for it endlessly.

[catbert836]

17. Why?

Should the Lebanese people not be supported?

I also support peace above all other things.

[cynatnite]

28. You gotta ask why?

War is hell and innocent people die whether they are Lebanese, Israeli, Iraqi, American or whatever.

Why don't you specify how the Lebanese should be supported? Should they be supported by wanting them to go to war with Israel?

Any support I give to anyone will be in the way of donations for food and medical care.

It sure as hell won't be given to promote even more war.

[catbert836]

30. A feeling of solidarity

would be the most appropriate at this point, I think. As well as food and medical care, as you say.

I sure as hell do not support any effort to "want them to go to war with Israel". I'm sorry if you saw my post that way.

[cynatnite]

37. No prob

:hi:

[Lautremont]

12. What is this, the World Cup?

It's people I'll support, not countries, however downtrodden. I realize that's what you're getting at, but I won't say "I support Lebanon" any more than I'd say "I support Israel" or "I support America."

I support anything that's going to stop people from getting bombed. It's horrible.

[catbert836]

14. That is indeed what I meant.

I'm sorry if I created the sense of supporting the nation, or it's government, rather than the people.

[madeline_con]

15. I'm abstaining. These threads attract friction. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. I support peace! nt

[melnjones]

68. Me too...I also support yorkies.

Best dogs in the world.

[DELUSIONAL]

33. I wonder how Nader is sleeping?

I don't believe that President Gore (or Kerry) would have allowed this sort of violence to happen to the Lebanese civilians.

Children who fight sometimes have to be separated by parents -- or guardians.

Gore would have been a good parent. Also with President Gore in his second term -- the US would not have been bogged down in Iraq. I long for what could have been -- and hate what is happening to the children.

I agree that the Lebanese people are the victims -- especially the innocent children.

[catbert836]

36. "What if" situations are tricky.

Even if Gore or Kerry had been elected, there could have been circumstances in which they would have acted as Bush is doing now.

They would have just been a helluva lot less likely to behave as ineptly as Bush has been.

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. Gore or Kerry aren't members of PNAC. And both Gore and Kerry

were elected, but not allowed to take office and we all know why.

[catbert836]

46. True that.

My point is that under certain circumstances, even Gore or Kerry would have invaded Iraq, et cetera. It just would have been VERY unlikely.

[OzarkDem]

53. Gore or Clinton would have invaded Iraq? Doubtful

While no one can ever know for certain, I would find it very, very, very, very unlikely that they would have done that.

9/11 probably wouldn't have even happened.

[catbert836]

55. As do I.

Even if 9/11 had happened under Gore (quite unlikely, as you say), his response would have been MUCH more appropriate than Bush's.

[SammyWinstonJack]

67. Actually Gore said he would not have invaded Iraq. And I believe he

would have handled the whole situation much differently with regard to the Taliban also, which means he probably wouldn't have bombed the crap out of Afghanistan either.

[SammyWinstonJack]

65. Agreed! On all counts! nt

[OzarkDem]

51. Clinton was very close to getting a peace accord in the ME

Had Gore been allowed to take office, he would likely have allowed Clinton to continue that effort.

[catbert836]

52. Yes.

Bush has screwed things up beyond belief.

[bdamomma]

38. you know we can say we are victims also

of this regime we have in our own country.

[DELUSIONAL]

43. I sure feel like a victim --

Stem cell veto

Constitution being pooped on by the bush gang -- rights to privacy are all but gone -- in the name of "security".

American citizens who travel abroad COULD become targets -- for people would can't get to their main object of revenge -- but a US tourists or traveler is an easy mark.

Self centered? Could be. But if we put ourselves in the place of the Lebanese who are fleeing their homes -- facing an uncertain future.

If we don't vote the bush crime family bastards out then could we be in a similar situation to the Lebanese. If we do get fed up and raise up -- could the bush crime family use their well tested urban warfare techniques on American cities.

I used to believe that Americans would never attack Americans -- and then the National Guard murdered 4 students in Kent state -- and RayGun turned the fat assed white male idiots against the students. It is only a matter of time before a whole lot of people get fed up and try to bring about a change. I don't believe in violent opposition or violent change -- but not everyone is a Pacifist like I am. I still believe in voting the bastards OUT.

[Citizen Carrier]

34. I'd be more supportive of the Lebanese...

If for the last few decades they would've called the cops or something whenever their Hezbollah neighbors decided to launch a Katyusha rocket from their backyard.

Let's face it. If The Minutemen started firing rockets and artillery into Juarez from suburban neighborhoods and everyone living there knew who was doing it and where they were doing it, yet did nothing and said nothing, would they be all that "innocent" to you?

It is too bad that children have to suffer for this, but if their parents weren't either idiots, cowards or collaborators, this wouldn't have come to pass.

[catbert836]

39. The problem is...

When the Syrian Army occupied Lebanon in 1978, Israel made clear that any Syrian Army presense in southern Lebanon, where Hezbollah operates right now, would be considered an act of war. Thus, Hezbollah emerged in the region as a community support organization which built hospitals, schools and infrastructure, similar to the role of Hamas in Palestine. The Lebanese people did not usually see the other side of the coin.

[meti57b]

40. Everyone supports Lebanon. The question is, do you support Hezbollah.

[catbert836]

41. I do not.

That was the purpose of my thread, to show that we all support the Lebanese people (hopefully). I think you would be hard pressed to find any active supporters of Hezbollah here.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[catbert836]

66. I agree.

Welcome to DU, btw.

See my other post here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1706824&mesg_id=1707089
for a deeper analysis of the problem of Hezbollah in South Lebanon.

[Hardrada]

48. Yes, I support LEBANON!

[DanCa]

58. In all honestly this is beyond my comprehension.

I can't keep up with everything thats happened now and before. All that I want is for the bombings to stop. And for us to get the chimp's party out of power in November.

[Scoot420fla]

59. I do...video to explain why

The Truth About The Conflict by Noam Chomsky:

http://www.truthstream.org/2006/07/iraq-afghanistan-war-on-terror-noam

Israel started it after all

[stevietheman]

63. Yes, Lebanon is, on balance, the victim here. I am ashamed...

of what Israel is doing.