Any fellow Catholics out there remember Fatima predictions about WWIII?

[Nikki Stone 1]

My super Catholic cousin just told me that the Fatima predictions are coming to pass. From what I remember, there was supposed to be a war in the ME which moved northward to Europe, and Rome was supposed to be sacked, the pope taken hostage. It's been awhile, but I wondered if anyone had better info than I do. My cousin is not exactly preparing for some Catholic rapture, but she's quoting Fatima predictions all over the place.

[NMDemDist2]

1. read it for yourself, what do you think?

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa070300b.htm

[Nikki Stone 1]

14. Interesting reading:

The Third Prophecy

In 1944, Lucia wrote out the third prophecy, as she said she heard it as a 10-year-old girl in 1917, sealed it and presented it to Portugal's Bishop of Leiria. She told him that Our Lady's instructions were that it was not to be revealed to the public until 1960. The Bishop turned over the prophecy to the Vatican. In 1960, Paul John XXIII opened the sealed prophecy and read it, and the faithful anxiously awaited its promised revelation. But it was not to be. In apparent defiance of the Blessed Mother's instructions, the Pope refused to reveal the contents of the prophecy saying, "This prophecy does not relate to my time." According to Kathleen A. Keating, however, author of The Final Warning: Your Survival Guide to the New Millennium, "John XXIII fainted when he read the third secret because it specifically states, according to eyewitnesses, that the Pope would betray the flock and turn his sheep over to the slaughter devised by Lucifer himself. John XXIII fainted because he thought he would be the Pope who would open the door to Satan and that he would be the long awaited antipope."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. delete posted in wrong place

[a la izquierda]

2. meh...

I'm Catholic and from what I know, the Fatima predictions, like all others, are fairly vague. There was one about the pope being assassinated that they attributed to the assassination attempt of Pope John Paul II that sounded close, but when you really look at it, was kinda hazy.

[Nikki Stone 1]

4. Most of the stuff is vague. Wasn't there supposed to be fires and floods

too? Maybe that was just global warming.

[patrice]

26. That's my recollection.

Catholic grade school and high school, Mass 6 days a week, daily family prayers on our knees together, confession at least once a month, Holy Days, choir, daily catechism, Legion of Mary - We heard a GREAT deal about the Fatima predictions, but it was *never* anything more than vague at best.

[Nikki Stone 1]

27. God, you brought back the past with your description!

I was in a Catholic bookstore to get a christening gift and I saw those same little white handbags we had to buy for First Communion, complete with rosary and children's New Testament.

[patrice]

32. Yeah, it struck me too when I wrote that, how that was only the

beginning of all of the ways that the Church pervaded out lives, only the tip of the ice-berg.

But there was something different about it then compared to now; I can state with complete certainty that we were absolutely encouraged to do our own moral thinking. Beginning when we reached what was called "the age of reason", 7 years old, and started to go to Confession, and receive the Eucharist, you were told to examine your conscience thoroughly. That required asking questions about right and wrong, formulating answers, and judging yourself.

I don't go to church anymore, largely because I realized I couldn't approve of something that sold its soul for political power in the Pro-Life movement, but I'm still Catholic.

[Nikki Stone 1]

35. There used to be a time when you could be a pro-choice Catholic

I was. But, every other homily these days is about abortion. And there is so much else going on.

[patrice]

39. I'm sorry to hear that! I miss the Church.

If they'd just talk half so strong about how war is social abortion, I might get over my differences with them.

[Nikki Stone 1]

44. Too much of their own history is bloodstained by war-and unjust ones

Men in packs are pretty much the same whether they call themselves a church, a gang, a government, or a fraternity.

[patrice]

45. This IS true. n/t

[Cleita]

80. Exactly.

You put it so well.

[Sapphocrat]

94. Pssst! Nikki...

Not trying to hijack, but here, have I got a book for you!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743453271

[Nikki Stone 1]

101. That is hysterical!

I'll have to read it. :)

[catmother]

3. i gave up my catholic religion about 40 years ago, but i do

remember something about the fatima predictions. i think there was one that was not to be told to the world until a certain date. it was a long time ago.

[Nikki Stone 1]

6. That's right. Did they ever tell it?

My bet is no, but I'm cynical. :)

[catmother]

12. don't really know. i would not have paid attention anyway.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

7. I'm sad to see you go

There is such a thing as liberal Catholicism.

[Nikki Stone 1]

8. Like a liberation theologian, or a Ted Kennedy Catholic?

Along those lines...

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

19. What?

I don't understand what you mean. Are you asking a question?

[Nikki Stone 1]

20. Just trying to figure out where you are coming from.

There's a lot of variety in the Catholic Church.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

22. I'm talking about Franciscans and Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker

Movement.

Taking Christianity seriously.

[Nikki Stone 1]

28. OK. That is helpful.

Thanks!

[mykpart]

105. I'm a Catholic in good standing, and

I think that old nun made the whole thing up! We are under no obligation to believe in any of the events of Fatima. It's a beautiful story, but I really don't think Lucia got any prophecies from the Blessed Mother.

[DanCa]

31. A Bruce Springsteen catholic rocks

pardon the pun :D

[Nikki Stone 1]

37. LOL!

You made me smile there. :D

[DanCa]

54. laughter is all that we have left. :D

- Huggles - seriously though you should check out the seeger sessions album. He has three or four hymns on it that are truly amazing.

[Nikki Stone 1]

61. He's gotten better with age in some ways

Not that the young Boss wasn't great. But the maturity and social concern with the kind of character in a voice that ages well have made him more interesting as the years go by.

[catmother]

13. i completely reject any form of christianity. i don't practice any

religion, but if i did it would probably be Buddhism. it's the only one that makes any sense.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

18. ok. I think that that's great!

:thumbsup:

[knowbody0]

23. agree

the only religion that does not give you a boogyman (satat) to blame your troubles on.

[karynnj]

10. My memory is the same as yours - that the last one couldn't be

told yet. Didn't the last of the kids from Fatima die in the last few years?

[catmother]

15. yes. i believe she did. i went to catholic elementary school and

then 2 years of catholic HS before they practically expelled me. but i remember in elementary school they would show us these movies, i.e., story of bernadette, fatima, etc. used to really freak us kids out. all that hell bullshit.

if i did something wrong and i lied, my mom would wait until after i went to confession and then she would say "now you have to tell the truth or you can't have communion tomorrow". Jesus H Christ

[karynnj]

91. Wow,

I went to only first and second grade in Catholic school. My family moved and their was no space in my grade in the 2 towns we lived in subsequently - so I went to CCD. I was actually seriously religious for a while, reading every book on girl saints before picking a confirmation name. (Rose) I remember seeing those movies that were really scary.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

5. I know that when JPII was shot the Fatimists felt that it was all coming

true.

As a liberal Catholic I think that there is more to mysticism and charity than there is to Nostradamus type prognostication.

[a la izquierda]

9. i've tried explaining this to some folks....

and seriously, when the Catholic Church starts sounding like the voice of reason in the Christian world, I get a little worried!!! :evilgrin:

[Horse with no Name]

11. Just briefly reading through

I could believe that Ratzinger WOULD be the Pope that would betray the flock. Other than that, I don't hold much stock in any of it. Sounds like more self-fulfilling prophecies.

[Nikki Stone 1]

16. Yeah, I thought Ratburger would fit the bill easily

Apparently this is supposed to be the real text--at least the part the Vatican released in 2000:

http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.marianland.com/thirdsec.html

"I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.

"After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendor that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: 'Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: 'something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."

.../THIRD SECRET/... VIS 000626 (380)

[hlthe2b]

21. Interesting how Ratzinger was John Paul's spokesperson &

"interpreter" on the 3rd Fatima prophesy.... Those with more tin foil in their kitchen, might just wonder.....?

[Joanne98]

17. I'm big Edgar Cayce fan.... Here's what he said....

Prophecies Earth Changes:

http://www.edgarcayce.org/about_ec/cayce_on/earth_changes/index.html


As the calendar moves inevitably into this 21st century, more and more frequently we hear predictions regarding planetary change, the end-of-the-world, vast global destruction. History suggests that such predictions have often accompanied the end of each century and a similar phenomenon regarding widespread millennium prophecies occurred as the year 1000 approached. Therefore, should we be concerned or should these prophecies simply be relegated to the realm of fabrication and fiction?

A possible approach lies in the psychic information of the late Edgar Cayce considered the most documented clairvoyant of the twentieth century. Cayce suggested that the years between 1958 and 1998 would indeed be a period of great global transformation. However, these changes would not lead to the end of the world, but in time, to the dawning of a New Age of hope and community for all humankind.

Today, many groups continue to predict major cataclysms and the approach of inevitable change. Ironically, oftentimes these groups have failed to realize that change is all about us. There are wars and rumors of wars broadcast around the globe in the blink of an eye. We hear of floods and famine and hate crimes as they occur; and a day doesn't pass when we don't see renewed evidence of gang wars or drugs or our inhumanity to one another. Unfortunately, much of this information has become so commonplace that we may simply shrug our shoulders, change the channel, or turn the page. In many places, the world has become more fractured than ever before, as politics, race, sexuality, culture, and religion divide us. Countless thousands of individuals have been killed, are dying, or have simply given up. And yet, in spite of all these things, some individuals continue to wait for the . Big One. as evidence of "changing times."

It' s time for us to wake up and realize that the changing times are happening RIGHT NOW. Our world, our civilization, and our individual lives are all undergoing dramatic personal and collective change. Yet, this is sometimes hard for us to recognize because the changes have not been a single event. They have been a process. Cayce's predictions for the future are not really about earthquakes; instead, they are about the fact that a new world is being born. The changing events in our lives and in our surroundings are to enable us to remember why we are here. Simply stated, these changes are the testing which will enable us to put God in our lives.

We don't want to fool ourselves; the geological condition of the planet makes some earth changes inevitable. There will continue to be earthquakes. But potentially even more influential changes can come from worldwide political turmoil, economic challenges, wars, and many more "upheavals" that are not necessarily geological in nature. The challenge of the times is for us to come together as one global community. The purpose of the changes we are experiencing is not for the changes themselves; rather it is so that we will undergo personal and global transformation. Only in this way may we usher in the dawn of a New Age.

From Cayce. s perspective, the future offers not destruction and hopelessness, but the chance to transform the world as we work together, building hope and community for all of humankind. Today, wherever we find ourselves, there is a great need to come together as one global family. That is our collective destiny. That is the potential heritage we share as spiritual beings manifesting in the earth.

Adapted from: EARTH CHANGES

Everybody thought his statement about the poles switching was CRAZY! But now we know he was right. AWESOME!

[Cleita]

24. Mary was elevated to the status of a goddess

during the early days of Christianity to make up for the lack of a feminine diety like the pagans had. I belive these apparitions are variations of the triple goddess of antiquity, the virgin, the mother and the crone symbolized by her standing at the cross to receive her son after he died. Mary symbolizes all three at various stages in her life. The apparitions also display the personalities of the different goddesses of paganism. I believe Fatima with her dire predictions and her threats of damnation and the end of the world if we don't do penance for our sins fits the Morrigan of Celtic tradition.

Just my thoughts. If this analysis upsets you I apologize ahead of time and ask you to take this with a grain of salt.

[Nikki Stone 1]

29. Not at all. First I heard of the Morrigan angle. Don't know as much as I

should no doubt. Was that the role of the goddess?

[Cleita]

33. She was also known as the Morrigu.

She is also a triple goddess. (Celts had triple goddesses within their triple goddesses.)

These goddesses were of war, battle, death and destruction. Their names are Badb, Macha and Nemain. Collectively they mean the phantom queen. The Morrigu is believed to fly overhead shrieking in the form of a Raven when there is a battle or other destructive event. The banshee, who phrophesy death with their wailing, are part of Badb's entourage.

[Nikki Stone 1]

36. Sort of like the Furies?

I wonder why it is female figures that presage death.

[Cleita]

40. Yeah, probably. All these European gods and goddesses

sometimes stood for the same ones with different names. One of the reasons I think Fatima fits the Morrigu is that this apparition is different than Lourdes. Lourdes was all about healing. Fatima is pretty much about destruction and she's warning you to repent so you don't go to Hell. She is also fortelling the future with her messages.

Traditionally it's the women who took care of the details of preparing the body of the deceased for cremation or burial. So I think it was normal in the minds of people that they should presage death. The banshee were supposed to wash the shields of the warriors who would die in battle that day, which is an interesting connection to the Valkyrie legends of the Norse where the Valkyrie would appear to the warrior who was earmarked to die that day before the battle.

[Nikki Stone 1]

47. The kiss of death, as it were.

Fatima does fit into that kind of mythology.

[hedgehog]

74. It's interesting that you mention the banshee

My grandfather was able to hear the banshee. My mother and sister have been "visited" by dying relatives on their way out. I myself think I was visited by a dead cousin. It goes to show that either we're all delusional (we being the human race) or that "there are more things between heaven and earth than be explained by your philosophies". Pay your money and take your choice; no one can prove it one way or the other. Propose an explanation maybe, but not explain. If mystical experiences seem to produce certain brain patterns, what else would you expect at an intersection of the material and the spiritual?

[Cleita]

76. Since science has postulated that there might be more

dimensions out there than the four we habitate, it could be that some people have the ability to communicate with another dimension. Most of us just have our five senses that are able to percieve our four dimensional world, but that doesn't mean that what we can't see, hear, smell, taste or touch doesn't exist. Some people may have that sixth sense that enables them to sense other dimensions. Food for thought.

[hedgehog]

81. It was Leonard Wibberley who said we had a method of contacting

extra-terrestrial life : "Our Father..."

[Cleita]

82. Just speculating since there is no proof yet.

However, remember that before the microscope was invented that what we call microbes today were called evil spirits that had invaded the body of a sick person. They knew something was there but had no way of knowing exactly what until they could see and study it.

[hedgehog]

41. I think it's more a matter of projecting meaning on the apparition

Compare Guadalupe, Lourdes and Knock to Fatima and Medjugorge. the first three apparitions are in`turreted as offering hope and solace while Fatima and Medjugorge threaten damnation. The hierarchy attempted valiantly to tie Lourdes to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, but the faithful look there for hope and healing. I think whatever happened at Fatima in 1917 was hi-jacked to suit the local fascist tendencies of the hierarchy and government; hence the emphasis on 'godless' Russia. Generally speaking, apparitions of any sort give the hierarchy the heebie-jeebies because often they are associated with nut cases and also because they are out of the control of the hierarchy.

IMO, the Fatima prophecy points to Oscar Romero more than John Paul the II.

[Cleita]

46. My view of apparitions is that they come from within the

psyche of the viewer. I'm not saying that they didn't see anything. Scientists who have studied those having visions have verified that these viewers are in some kind of trance state and that they are visually engaged.

However, I think the visions come from somewhere deep within the viewers. I mention the goddess aspect because many pagan traditions have been handed down through Christian times. Just a little bit of the information was altered to conform with the church so they wouldn't be sorted out as heretics.

[Nikki Stone 1]

48. So the psyche of the viewer has the ability to predict?

Or is it just seeing lots of details like we see in dreams?

[Cleita]

51. That I don't know. From what I see of Fatima, I don't

thing she really predicted anything that anyone of us couldn't have. I mean the average person can look around and say we are going to Hell in a handbasket if we don't do something about it.

Weren't the children living in fascist Hell and wasn't their part of the world dusting off the ashes of WWI? Things could look pretty dire and I don't think it's hard to make those predictions.

Or, maybe some disembodied spirit whispers to those who are able to hear them what they think will happen. We don't know enough about these things yet. I have always believed that each one of us has many futures to play out. The choices we make in life determine which future will be the one we live in the end. Maybe Fatima was presenting one of our possible futures to us. :shrug:

[hedgehog]

56. I wonder how much of what was said at Fatima was

dictated by the apparition and how much was dictated by the adults around the children. The so-called third prediction was issued thirty years later by a woman who had been placed in a convent lest she be "contaminated" by secular life. Who knows what Lucia really heard in 1917 and what she thought she heard after being in a Spanish convent during the Spanish Civil War and World War II?

We associate Lourdes with miraculous healings of body or spirit, but at the time conservative Catholics used it to attack anti-clerical scientists and journalists in France.

[Nikki Stone 1]

63. You provide food for thought. Also, apparently the Bosnian appearances

of Mary in the 80s were shown to be a hoax. My cousin's mom was really into that.

[Nikki Stone 1]

58. The visions were allegedly in 1917--near the end of WWI

but not written down until 1940 by the oldest of the three children, after the younger two had died.

There are certain things that can be predicted with just common sense and past experience. I remember telling everyone I knew right after 9/11 that we would be at war with Iraq. Everybody thought I was nuts and said it would just be Afghanistan. But it was clear to me when they floated the Mohammad Atta in Prague story (the same day or the day after 9/11). They revealed their hand with that story and this was the same bunch from the first gulf war. It just clicked. I was certain we'd be at war with Iraq. No psychic ability, just cynicism and mistrust. :)

[hedgehog]

53. The association with place also harks back to an earlier age.

Guadalupe was the site of an old temple to a goddess. Obviously Lourdes is associated with healing waters. There are many holy wells and springs all over Ireland. Some view this as the Catholic Church co-opting pagan beliefs. Others say these are cases of both pagans and Catholics recognizing the holiness of nature.

Knock is a little known apparation that took place in Ireland in 1879. The people who saw the apparation at first thought that statues had been purchased by the local church and then left out in the rain! Since then others have explained the apparation as a hoax by someone using a slide projector to flumox the locals. My feeling is that if people use this story as a way of receiving comfort, who cares what the exact "truth" is. I brought water from Knock to my great-aunt who was crippled with arthritis in a nursing home. It may have been one of the kindest things I ever did. She was so happy to have the Holy Water.

[Cleita]

57. Yes, Ireland has a big tradition of sacred wells way before

the Christian era. Good for you. I'm glad you decided to give the benefit of the doubt and make your great aunt happy. My mother made a pilgrimage to Lourdes and brought back a little bottle of water. It did nothing for her when she got cancer but I think it did bring her some comfort.

[hedgehog]

68. As I said, many more of the miracles of Lourdes involve

healing of the spirit than healing of the body. Physical cures are spectacular, but I think that the spiritual comfort is way more impressive.

[MamaBear]

95. The Goddess abides in our collective unconscious.

I think she'll come through to those who invoke her or even seek her, but not always in the manner one expects.

[Nikki Stone 1]

102. Gotta explain this to me

How can you invoke the collective unconscious

[sproutster]

25. That's inline with "the last pope"

[DanCa]

30. My mom mentions it from t ime to time.

She's also is heavily into Nostradamus' predictions. Wasn't he a catholic monk of some kind?
:hugs: Peace everyone

[Cleita]

34. Nostradamus was a converted Jew, but he also studied the

Kabbala and other Jewish mystic traditions. I believe he was a cleric within the church of some sort because he was also a physcian and in those days you had to be a cleric to practice.

[Nikki Stone 1]

38. Why are these psychics and mystics always so fuzzy in their predictions?

Do the antennae need adjusting or something?

[Cleita]

42. In Nostradamus's case it might have cost him his life if he

was too specific. The Church doesn't deal kindly with fortune tellers.

[Nikki Stone 1]

49. Odd, since the first visitors to Jesus were allegedly astrologers

:)

[Cleita]

52. You and I know there are so many contradictions in the Bible

and in the way the Church chooses to interpret it. Considering that the last book of the New Testament is also a prophesy, the Apocalypse that has all the fundies in an uproar, it sure makes you wonder.

[hedgehog]

62. Interpretations of the Book of Revelation are all over the place.

While fundies take it as a literal prophesy and try to connect the dots, Catholics view it as an interpretation of contemporary events during the persecution of Christians by Nero. It was meant to comfort those facing death by describing their triumphant entrance in to the next life. In other words, the events that fundies are waiting for already happened about 1950 years ago! The Church still uses selections from Revelation in its liturgy because of the metaphorical (Note: Metaphorical!) descriptions of the Church and the life to come.

[Nikki Stone 1]

72. Well that is the most logical conclusion

The obscurity of the code in that book is an exigency of war. If they said what they meant was Rome, the book would never have made its way around the (then) Roman world.

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. I don't believe the 3rd prediction was ever revealed?

John Paul II talked about it and claimed it was all about him, which was total bs. Oh yeah, that little assassination attempt, that was it, now move along.

Last I heard one of the sisters was still alive? I wonder what she has to say?

[Nikki Stone 1]

50. I think she died in the 60s, but I don't know

Her name was Lucia.

[OhioChick]

65. Sr. Lucia

Passed away in 2005. Are we talking about the same person?

[Nikki Stone 1]

67. Yeah. I didn't realize she had lived that long

That would make her around 100. She was a teenager in 1917.

[hedgehog]

71. The other two children at Fatima passed away during the

influenza epidemic of 1918. Not to be a smart-a**, but maybe they should be made patrons of those worried about the bird flu!

[Nikki Stone 1]

75. LOL!! (And yes, you are a smart ass. :) )

It's like St Lawrence who should be the patron saint of the summer barbecue.

(He was roasted to death on some kind of a spit and allegedly told his executioners that it was time to turn him over because "this side is done.")

[hedgehog]

84. I always liked St Lawrence

He must have been an incredible person to have said that in those circumstances. Even if he really didn't say it, the people who knew him told that story because it's the kind of thing he would have said. "Truth" can be somewhat elastic in dealing with matters of Faith! (Or movies about historic events such as Oliver Stone's JFK. The events in the movie may nt have happened, but I believe the movie is "true".)

[Nikki Stone 1]

100. Interesting your mentioning JFK

It was hard to separate truth from fiction

[ourbluenation]

55. I'm fairly certain the third prediction was in regards to Russia...

the fall of communism and the conversion of russia

[Nikki Stone 1]

59. Apparently Pope JPII blessed Russia or something

after the fall of communism.

[Cleita]

60. Why would Russia need conversion?

They already were Christians but had to practice underground because Karl Marx had condemned religion. I do agree with his statement that "religion is the opiate of the people", however you should leave them alone to worship what they want as long as they keep it separate from my government.

[hedgehog]

64. That's a question the Russians are asking.

There is quite a lot of tension between Russian Orthodox believers and Catholics who prayed for the "conversion" of Russia. There are Catholic bishops in Russia today and some Orthodox prelates want them out of the country as they view the Catholics as poachers.

[Nikki Stone 1]

69. Aha! I knew there was a political reason behind this.

:D

[Nikki Stone 1]

66. I don't know. IT was specifically a "consecration to my immaculate heart"

according to the link in the second post. Can't imagine why.

[ourbluenation]

83. I was wrong...it was about the attempted assasination of JP2

John Paul II unambiguously says that the third prophecy was fulfilled at his shooting. A longtime friend of Mary, he had prayed for the intercession of Our Lady of Fatima to save his own life. His prayers were answered. This mystic-pope returned to his historic papacy carrying a sacred wound.

http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/aug2000/Editorial.asp

[Justitia]

88. see my post # 85, the official Vatican take on JP 2's take: he had PTSD

when he said that.

I posted the Theological Commentary on the 3rd Fatima secret from the Office of The Doctrine of The Faith (formerly known as The Dept of The Inquisition - ha, ha - true!).

The Office of The Doctrine of The Faith is what sets actual religious doctrine and policy, used to be headed by Ratzi before he became pope.
His commentary is quite interesting in it's rationality and reason. Not what I expected from his current day stance as a hard-liner.

He says the assassination attempt explanation should be "totally discounted" and JP2's comments should be attributed to PTSD like symptoms following his near-death experience.

Basically, he says the 3rd secret is allegorical (about communism's atheistic attacks (via Russia) against Christianity) and should be taken into the context of a young girl's imagination. You are free to believe it, if you wish, but absolutely do not look for solid events or facts.

So, you were right the first time (about Russia).

Surprisingly broad-minded, no? Of course, I don't buy any of it, but I found his commentary interesting.

[sueragingroz]

70. You know... if you turn to astrology instead

You'll find a much more cheery message:

http://www.lightforthelastdays.co.uk/docs/cults_occult/aquarius.html

It could simply be that the Age of Pisces (which many believe features Christ as avatar) is about to end.

I don't believe in any of this stuff, but I find it all very interesting just the same...

Edited to add more links:

http://logos_endless_summer.tripod.com/id227.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Aquarius

[Nikki Stone 1]

73. What comes after Pisces? Ares?

nt

[Cleita]

77. The Age of Aquarius of course!

The ages seem to go backwards. Don't ask me why. Ask an astrologer. I just got a crazy urge to put on my birkenstocks and head band and start singing.

:rofl:

[magellan]

86. Aquarius

The first link in the note above yours is a very interesting read. Now I've got that song by the Fifth Dimension playing in my head!!

"Let the sunshine, let the sunshine in...."

[sueragingroz]

87. It's actually Ares, then Pisces and then Aquarius

Many believe that Aquaris is on the rise right now...

[AnnieBW]

89. Aquarius

It's going backwards in the Zodiac.

[Joanne98]

92. Pisces is the last sign. Aries is the first...Aries comes after Pisces

[Joanne98]

93. Nevermind. The ages go backwards. Pisces then Aquarius

The reason for this optimism? The earth is moving out of the astrological cycle of Pisces (the fish) into the cycle of Aquarius (the water bearer). The reasoning behind this is the basic astrological assumption that the stars or planets mysteriously influence the lives of people on earth. As far as individuals are concerned the position of the heavenly bodies at the moment of our birth is supposed to affect our character and ultimate destiny. There is also a collective significance for the whole of humanity in the progress of the planet through the constellations, which Cainer explains in the article:

'If the Age of Aquarius is upon us, what have we been living through until now? The answer is the Age of Pisces. For just as the turning of the earth has its yearly seasons, it traces, as it travels through the sky, a much broader cyclic pattern... The Egyptians knew all about this. So did the Greeks. They called it a 'great year' and they subdivided it into 12 'great months', each named after a different Zodiac sign. Each 'great month' lasts roughly 2,160 years. The last, Pisces, had just begun when Christ was born in Bethlehem. It's interesting to speculate that it may be no coincidence that the early Christians used a fish as a symbol of their faith.'

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. I'm sticking with the coded messages from Elvis.

The ones emanating from the toaster when heating Bible pages on the 3rd thursday of every Leap year. Or, there are always the Black Chicken entrails...

Besides those brats couldn't even play the guitar.

[Justitia]

85. From the horse's mouth (the Vatican website) & Pre-Pope Ratzi

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

The most interesting bit is the Theological Commentary at the end by Ratzi, back when he was over the Dept of The Inquisition, not pope yet.

I say most interesting because it is incredibly open-minded and well-reasoned. Not at all expected from his current day visage as pope.

The basic executive summary: The third secret is an allegory about atheistic attacks against Christianity (with some timely specifics as to the rise of communism and it's assumed atheistic nature in Russia).

The theological commentary "totally discounts" the assassination attempt interpretation, chalks it up to JP II basically drawing too close a parallel to his life being threatened as a type of PTSD.

Wraps the whole thing up by saying the faithful should take the entire ball of wax in the context of a young girl's imagination, you can choose to believe it or not, but one should not look for solid events but view the whole thing as allegorical.

Quite a reasoned response (not that I personally buy any of this hocus pocus - but that's another matter entirely) from Pre-Pope Ratzi. Too bad the Catholic Church doesn't see more of his logical, reasoned mind in his current duties as top dog, Bossman Bishop.

;-)

[DoYouEverWonder]

98. So in other words

Pope Ratzi is saying the Pope John Paul II was not infallible?

I don't think that was his intention, but that is basically what it boils down to.

[Justitia]

99. I was surprised he basically blew off JP2's interpretation so publicly,

albeit in a tap-dancing, compassionate sorta way.

Now technically, the pope was not speaking "ex cathedra" about this stuff, the only time a pope is really considered to be "infallible".

And since the office of the Doctrine of The Faith (Pre-Pope Ratzi's former dept) actually does more of the doctrinal stuff, they kinda have the last word on definitions of faith and morals.

What I think is a neat trick is how no infallible pronouncement ever contradicts another infallible pronouncement, and how the doctrine of infallibility is in itself infallible as a matter of doctrine, and oh by the way, the Church has never put out a complete list of all infallible doctrines so as we can all compare notes.

Neat, huh?

Church history is endlessly fascinating. ;-)

[Sapphire Blue]

90. Sometimes I wonder... if I had a 'vision' of Jesus today, and he said...

... "please tell everyone to stop fighting with each other, tell them to love one another, to take care of each other, to care for the poor, the hungry, to care for the earth & everything on it"... I wonder if anyone would believe me, if anyone would do as Jesus asks.

Somehow, I don't think so... you see, those things are written in red letters in the Bible... attributed to Jesus. Who is doing as he asked?

[autorank]

96. Around 2000, I was in Kinkos in Northern Virginia, at about this hour

I had a huge report that had to go out FedEx pronto and I took it in for copying and binding. There was another guy there and we talked. Guess who he was, the leading popular writer on sign tings of the Virgina Mary. He was kind of fun to listen to so I did, for maybe 45 minutes. I was very courteous and thanked him for telling me all of whatever it was he was saying. He did mention these predictions and swore by them. About 3-4 days later, I recalled the conversation and thought to myself, "what a #@#*ing nut job that guy was! Damn, I wish I'd blown him off." I didn't think of any of this until this morning when I signet a strange apparition on my toast...sorry Nicki, back to the story.
To paraphrase, margaret Mead, it's not true but even if it were, it's not the kind of thing I'd like to be true.

Thanks for the memories:evilgrin:

[lanlady]

97. there was no WWIII prediction

Quoting from a Catholic source, here's what Fatima predicted in 1917:

(1) the end of World War I;

(2) the emergence of Russia as a world power which would "spread its errors (including Communism) throughout the world ... raising up wars and persecutions against the Church";

(3) the election of a Pope who would be named Pius XI;

(4) the waging of a second World War following a strange light in the night sky.

The Message of Fatima also predicted that if the requests of the Virgin Mary at Fatima are not honored, many souls will be lost, "the Holy Father will have much to suffer", there will be further wars and persecutions of the Church and "various nations will be annihilated."

[Nikki Stone 1]

103. I wonder what lunatic my cousin is listening to

who said there was a connection.

[TankLV]

104. The rapture is blasphemy. It's complete crap. If you cousin is Catholic,

they should know this already.

Only the wacko fundy evangelical cults believe in this late 19th century invention!

[allalone]

106. well, my neighbor, a very old man,

studies and believes in the Aztec calender. He says it ends in 2012, so I guess I'll see you all wherever!