Nader: US Responsible For Israeli War Crimes

[Karmadillo]

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0607/S00350.htm

Thursday, July 20th, 2006
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http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/20/1434256

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RALPH NADER: Yes, I wanted to draw a contrast as to just how extreme and messianically driven President Bush is, even in comparison with his father and his father’s key advisers, Jim Baker and Brent Scowcroft, both of whom opposed the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Bush, in 2004, was quoted as saying, quote, "I trust God speaks through me," end-quote. We’re dealing here with not just a phenomenally ignorant man, but a messianically driven man, and so when the Prime Minister of Israel visits the White House, he, Bush, knows who the puppeteer and who the puppet is, but he doesn't like to appear like a puppet, so he embraces messianically anything that Israel chooses to do militarily and to, in the words of the combat reservists who have refused to serve in the West Bank and Gaza, the Israeli combat reservists, they refuse to serve in Gaza and the West Bank and in their words they, quote, "We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people," end-quote. And that is exactly what George W. Bush's unqualified support, weaponry, diplomatic cover, vetoes in the UN against UN resolutions, is providing the Israeli military regime an opportunity to do, the Palestinians and anybody in the area that the Israeli military regime wants to dominate, damage.

What’s interesting here is that the Israeli peace movement, just like the peace movement in our country, was cowed when the hostilities began a few days ago. But that doesn't mean that the Israeli peace movement and leading commentators, former ministers of justice and defense and intelligence officials, who in prior months and years spoke out against the occupation, colonization, domination, destruction of the West Bank and Palestine cannot reassert themselves. But when they’re up against George W. Bush and a supine congress and a absurdly compliant Hillary Clinton, and others, it’s very hard for the Israeli peace movement, in the Knesset and elsewhere, to reassert itself. And that’s the cardinal failure of the Bush regime, that they have sided their positions with the militarists in Israel, but not with the broad, deep and prominent Israeli peace movement.

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The border between Israel and Lebanon involves raids of Israel, much more than Hezbollah, because of the more powerful factor. They still control large farm acreage, the Shebaa Farms, which are Lebanese soil. The Israelis have abducted Israeli civilians. They won’t tell the United Nations or the Lebanese government the location for thousands of land mines in South Lebanon so they can be deactivated. And during the 18-year occupation of South Lebanon, itself illegal under international law from 1982 to the year 2000, Israel drew water, precious water, from the Litani and even took fertile topsoil back to Israel, and other plunders. So, you know, for Tony Snow to act like, well, you know, everything started with this attack by Hezbollah, which is basically an attack designed to provide for a prisoner exchange. This has happened numerous times over the Lebanese-Israeli border.

But as Israeli commentators pointed out, this invasion of Lebanon doesn't have anything to do with it. This is just a pretext by Israel, that Israel wants a puppet regime in Lebanon. It cannot stand an independent Lebanon, and it seeks to achieve that objective by this massive invasion and dividing the sectarian conflicts, as it did in 1982. So, it’s really tragic to see the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, Nicholas Burns, and others acting as if they were emissaries of the Israeli embassy. When Mr. Burns said on the McNeil-Lehrer Report the other night that all the civilian deaths and destruction in Lebanon are due to Hezbollah, that is the kind of go signal that the Israeli regime wants to hear from the United States.

But I think it’s important for all peace-seeking people to move to pressure the U.S. government to get a ceasefire and to finally involve the Bush administration in serious negotiations as an honest broker to resolve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict with a two-state solution, a viable Palestinian state, which is supported by large numbers of Israelis, as well as, of course, Palestinians, and I might add about 70% of American Jews support a two-state solution to this problem, which has gotten us involved into more and more quagmires in the Middle East, not to exclude the Iraq war.

more...

[Tom Joad]

1. That was an excellent interview. It is an inconvenient truth that Gore

has supported Israel war crimes, and will remain silent even as hundreds die in Lebanon, and hundreds of thousands flee their homes.

[CuteNFuzzy]

84. I haven't listened to the interview yet but

I was wondering where you have come across Gore's position on Israel's current aggression against the Lebanese people

[bluestateguy]

2. If that little shit had shut his pie hole in 2000 Gore would be president

And there is a very good chance that this would not be happening at all.

He has no standing and he is invited to STFU.

I hope Nader and his limousine liberal friends are enjoying their Bush tax cuts.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lindacooks]

9. Nice juxtaposition of statements there. This says it all about

Ralph's supporters:

"Ralph is an American patriot. You STFU."

Thanks for proving our point about those who continue to delude themselves that Nader played no role in chimpy's appointment.

[StellaBlue]

19. Uh, I wasn't the first one to say it.

For someone to tell Ralph to STFU is extremely stupid and short-sighted.

I don't understand the hatred of someone who is one our side. Far, far more than the fuckers at the DLC ever have been. Blame Bush for Bush's mistakes.

[EFerrari]

22. I'm listening to Paul Robeson Jr. reporting how the felons

took 100,000 votes for Nader and switched them to Bush. And how the NYT went along with the "adjustment" over a four day period after 2000.

"If we as a people can't figure out how to get fair elections in 2006 and 2008, then we deserve what we get. I don't want to hear any complaints after 2008."

[Lindacooks]

35. LOL!

[The Magistrate]

43. People Can Attack Nader To Their Heart's Content, Ms. Blue

He is not a member of this forum, nor is he a member of the Democratic Party.

[DefenseLawyer]

13. I think Ralph really spoke the truth

when he said that all those Republicans gave him all that cash to finance his idiotic 2004 campaign because they all really wanted him to win. Don't you?

[Supersedeas]

76. Yea, Nader was all over that one.

[gully]

14. That's PR on his part

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm#luxury

Secret luxury house:

The Nader myth is built in large part of stories of his personal asceticism -- such as taking a minuscule salary, not owning a car (he bums lots of rides), and living (through the 1970s at least) in a boarding house with a bathroom down the hall. He claims to live on $5,000 a year and give nearly all the rest to his organizations.
Back in 1996, we noted that Nader had long earned hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in speaking fees -- over $250,000 annually even in the mid-1970s -- played the stock market and carefully avoided making details of his finances public, even as he demanded that various corporations and other politicans reveal their money dealings.

He has steadfastly refused to make his tax returns public (as Dole and Clinton have done). In 1996 he even says he spent less than $5,000 on his campaign so that he wasn't required to file even the minimal financial disclosure forms every other candidate is filing.

This time he had to admit spend more than $5,000, and his financial disclosure -- while sketchy -- revealed that he is a multimillionaire who makes hundreds of thousands on speeches each year and owns over $1 million in Cisco stock alone. (Nader still refused to release his tax returns, though all other major candidates have done so for the last many years.)

His lifestyle claims are bullpucky in other ways, too. His speaking gigs often include first class hotels and and meals, even limousines, and the many organizations he controls -- that's where his tax-deductible contributions go -- have many ways to cover his expenses as well. Plus, there is considerable evidence that he does own and stay in one or more houses. He acknowledges spending considerable time at a "family house" in Connecticut, and he appears to own a townhouse in Washington.

David Sanford of the New Republic documented that residents of a posh neighborhood in Washington -- on Bancroft Place NW -- often spotted him sneaking into an expensive house there. Some investigation showed that Nader's brother purchased the house -- worth $100,000 even back in 1972 -- though he was an underemployed educational "consultant" and had no education beyond high school. Nader issued a statement "that he does not live in his brother's Bancroft Place house", but when a now-former worker (Lowell Dodge) asked him privately, he wouldn't deny it.

Here he is in a bus - ahhh, I mean limo in cleveland:



http://www.cleveland-limousine.com/clients.html

[EFerrari]

17. From the same site:

The Bad Seed?

Dean's son was recently arrested for one of the dumbest crimes in recent history -- driving the getaway car in the burglary of liquor from a country club. He awaits trial.

:rofl:

[StellaBlue]

20. So what does that prove?

He's still far less hypcritical than every SOB in Washington, except perhaps Dennis Kucinich.

[TahitiNut]

30. 100% agreed.

:thumbsup:

[ProfessorGAC]

54. Not Me, TN

He's not less hypocritical. He's exactly as hypocritical. He's just as self-serving and self-aggrandizing as any D.C. politician.

And, i also notice, that suddenly he's suggesting there is a difference between the Republican, Bush, and the Democrats (name one). So, here we have a guy who ran an entire campaign on the fact that there is NO difference, enumerating the differences.

Ergo: He's IS a D.C. politician and his hypocrisy fits perfectly.
The Professor

[TahitiNut]

68. While I have no interest in rehashing this, ...

... I do not regard the "no difference" allegation in as broad-brush a fashion as most here on DU. With regards to the rise of global corporatism (GATT, WTO, NAFTA, etc.), the eradication of the middle class, the preeminence of entitlements above rights, the imprisonment of the citizenry under a specious War on (Some) Drugs, and a number of other policies I, as an independent, regard as at the core of the corruption in our body politic, there is a difference only in velocity and not direction between the major parties. That is NOT to say that there's no difference between neoconservatism, conservatism, and liberalism ... but I have not personally seen liberalism at the heart and soul of Democratic Party policies and directions for many years. Liberals in the Democratic Party are like Cinderella and her step-family - having nowhere else to go, doing most of the work, and having nothing to say about it. Forces such as the CBC and individuals such as Kucinich and Barbara Lee are NOT the Party mainstream, even though I firmly believe they should be. In my "perfect" America, Nader (or his perspectives) would've been on a Democratic ticket. That excessively partisan Democrats throw out the baby (Nader's positions) with the bathwater (partisan kvetching), has more to do with identifying scapegoats than taking responsibility.

But like I say ... the Nader-bashing jihadism on DU makes such discussions effectively impossible. It's all messenger and no message.

[ProfessorGAC]

69. However, I Take Him At HIS Word

He said "not a dime's bit of difference". I consider that statement to be patently absurd, as a fellow independent, but decidedly liberal.

I agree that the dems aren't exactly the liberal party, (geez, they ran away from the very term when it was allowed to be demonized), but in shades of gray, they are a lot, lot, lot, closer to liberal sentiment than the repubs, conservative or neocon.

There are manyfold multiples of that dime's bit of difference. And, until he admits he was wrong about that piece of rhetoric, his credibility is shot with me. And, his hypocritical actions are not one whit better than those of the other D.C. denizens.
The Professor

[TahitiNut]

70. Just for curiosity's sake ...

... can you (or anyone) provide a link to "Darth" Nader's actual speech/essay/interview transcript, including all contextual references? While I recall examining the actual remarks (I have a habit of reading the orginal rather than the second-hand commentary in order to form my own opinions), I'm not able to find them right now.

[gully]

73. Here's one quote:

"The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door. That's the only difference." ~ Ralph Nader

He also stated that Gore and Bush would be "essentially the same" on "foreign policy and the environment." :eyes:

[ProfessorGAC]

74. I'll Look

But, don't attribute things to me, that i didn't say. I don't see him as the dark lord. I just think he is far less effective, as either an activist or as a consumer advocate, than most of his supporters. I see a lot of smoke and mirrors throughout his entire history, and a lack of transparency that i find unattractive.
The Professor

[TahitiNut]

79. I worked at DeLorean's Chevrolet during the "Unsafe At Any Speed" era.

Suffice it to say that I've been inundated with Nader controversies nearly all of my adult life.

[gully]

72. Absolutely. Progressives CARE about how their actions effect others.

Nader cares not.

[ProfessorGAC]

55. Dupe

.

[gully]

71. I think he's the biggest hypocrite who's ever run for president.

eom

[EFerrari]

7. Gore won in 2000. n/t

[SaveElmer]

25. Absolutely...

I agree 100%...

He has no credibility at all as far as I am concerned...he has turned into a pathetic publicity hound!

[AlphaCentauri]

32. Democracy scares some people n/t

[Outer_Limit]

46. Interesting how no one wishes to talk about the content of the OP

Most prefer to regurgitate half a decades worth of hatred against one man who has become a non issue. Its quite pathetic, and just plain sad that most can't let go. Nevertheless I'll grab some popcorn :popcorn:

[Lilith Velkor]

61. Well, the subject line contains the trigger word

What are you, an intellectual or something? It's 2 minute Hate time! :popcorn:

[Outer_Limit]

86. I'm all out of popcorn

You got any left? :(

[MarkDevin]

48. Sure, it was all Nader's fault.

Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, the Tom DeLay-created Brooks Brother Brigade, and the U.S. Supreme Court had absolutely nothing to do with Al Gore's defeat. It was All Nader's Fault.

Nothing like living in denial!

[TomInTib]

3. Tell it, Ralph. nt

[Odin2005]

4. He's Lebanese-American, he has every right to be pissed.

[CuteNFuzzy]

85. Thank you for mentioning that

[rwenos]

6. America: Nader Responsible for Bush Presidency

Why anyone would pay even a passing interest to this self-centered, arrogant jerk is beyond me.

Enjoying the Bush presidency, Ralphie? You know, the one you CAUSED.

By the way, Ralphie. . . . Who gives a DAMN what you think?

[EFerrari]

8. That wasn't true in 2000 and it's still not true.

But, you are free to keep repeating it if it helps you in some way.

[rwenos]

10. It Helps Me

The truth shall set ye free, Mate.

I can't see how I can go wrong -- I'm loyal to the DEMOCRATIC candidate. As I was in 2000.

[EFerrari]

12. The Democratic candidate won in 2000. Even Mr. Gore

has acknowledged publicly that he believes he won Florida.

That is the truth.

[rwenos]

16. Yeh, But . . .

If Ralphie hadn't been QUITE so solipsistic in New Hampshire, Tennessee, or Arkansas, Florida would have been irrelevant.

There are none so blind as they who will not see.

[EFerrari]

21. They were going to steal it in plain sight

no matter what. And they were going to steal it in Florida.

Let's see. Blame Ralph Nader even when Gore says he won, or clean up your elections. Now, that is a hard choice.

Do you also believe "values voters" "re-elected" Junior?

Beating up on Ralph Nader doesn't get the next election any closer to clean. Whatever.

[SensibleAmerican]

24. And Florida would not have been in the courts had Nader not run

n/t

[SensibleAmerican]

23. You're right

Gore's President and this whole thing's only one big fucking nightmare.

[EFerrari]

28. That's what the evidence points to. Last time I looked

Nader doesn't sit on the Supreme Court and he didn't lynch the votes of Black Floridians in 2000 or again in Ohio in 2004.

This process will repeat until we stop it, Ralph or no Ralph.

[SensibleAmerican]

77. The Supreme Court was involved in the 2004 Election in Ohio?

Dope, never knew that ...

[EFerrari]

81. You know what would be cool? If all the people who are still

pissed at Nader would take all that energy and help us sue the cR2p out the guys shoving those voting machines down our throats.

There are plenty of good fights to fight, ya know?

:)

[DELUSIONAL]

11. Yesterday I was wondering how Nader was sleeping

because I knew that he was of Lebanese heritage.

The guy is bat shit crazy --

There is a world of difference between Gore and Bush -- Gore wouldn't have let this mess get this far. He would have had highly competent DIPLOMATS. It is doubtful that any real diplomats still remain on bush's staff or have his ear.

Thanks for posting this --

[cynatnite]

15. Fuck you very much, Mr. Nader n/t

[SensibleAmerican]

18. America: Nader responsible for American wars

n/t

[The Stranger]

59. Huh?

[Karmadillo]

83. And he killed the family dog and dried up the well. Damn him!!!

nt

[Warren DeMontague]

26. Tell it to the spoiler-minded Republicans you had running your '04 state

campaigns, shithead.

[cynatnite]

27. Yeah, I remember that...

He took a lot of money from the repukes.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Yes, Saint Ralph and his holy anointed ego. nt

[EFerrari]

33. Do you remember that voters rioted at the Ohio state house

on election night 2004?

Do you remember the 200,000 Latino votes that were switched to Bush?

Do you remember that Bush was the default on Diebold machines?

The thing is, Ralph has become a shiny thing to look at. Do not look at the Black votes that get "spoiled" 1 in 8.

[cynatnite]

34. Well, if this was a thread about that...

then I would respond differently...

Since it's about Nader, I'll say it again. Fuck Ralph Nader.

[EFerrari]

36. Yes, fuck him for running for office in what is left of our

so called "democracy".

[cynatnite]

37. If you think it's so great that he took repuke money...

because he was so damn desperate to run for office, that's fine. He's a nutball loser.

I'll say it again. Fuck Ralph Nader. I'll keep saying it over and over.

[EFerrari]

38. And you'll keep getting the same result.

I'm sorry. That's just how these things work. :shrug:

[AlphaCentauri]

40. why did Ralph get so many votes?

because the media, the money or the lack of his adversaries ideals ?

[frylock]

31. ralph nader: the du's clenis

[jonnyblitz]

51. exactly.

[ProfessorGAC]

57. Nope

Is he, or is he not, in this speech, delineating the differences between Bush (and the R's) and those against whom Silverspoon ran, and his predecessor D's?

From the same guy who said there was no difference.

Well, let's at least acknowledge that Ralph was wrong when he said that. Can we?

He was wrong, then, and he is suggesting the very things that make him wrong, without ever admitting error. Sounds uncomfortably like Silverspoon.
The Professor

[EFerrari]

78. Yes, he is. You are absolutely right about that. n/t

[DanCa]

39. Did he return the money that the repubs gave him for the 04 campaign?

Hmm whose that knocking on the window of oppurtunity? Trust me everyone I voted for Ralphie in 2000. I wont make that mistake again.

[Elidor]

41. One moment, Mr. Nader: I thought there was no appreciable difference

Between the dems and repubs. Now you have the nerve to complain that Dubya is a flake? With all due respect, Ralph, go fuck yourself. I have never held a grudge against the people who voted for Nader, but for Nader himself I have nothing but contempt. He's a sanctimonious idiot.

[EFerrari]

42. You may be right about that, lol. On the other hand, Nader

helped define the left at a moment when the Dems seemed a little too willing to go right.

I was shocked as hell to hear John Dean call himself a Goldwater conservative AND note that today, that puts him LEFT of center. Man.

[NNN0LHI]

44. All I want to know is...

...did Ralph ever get to the bottom of that NBA finals game that he wanted an independent investigation to find out if the referees made a mistake a few years ago?

Don

[k_jerome]

45. Nader is an irrelevant jackass. nt.

[The Stranger]

60. He is especially attacked when he speaks the piercing truth,

which no amount of attacks can obscure.

[gully]

75. When might that be?

:eyes:

[The Stranger]

80. Take a look at the thread.

[gully]

82. I have.

.

[Downtown Hound]

47. I hold nothing against Nader for running in 2000

I believe Bushco would have found a way to steal the election no matter what. Nader just made it a little easier for them to justify it. We live in a Democracy, and neither the Democrats or the Republicans have any kind of sacred claim to the offices of our government. It is open for all to run.

That being said, Nader's candidacy in 2004 was, how shall I put it? Stupid, egotistical, idiotic, sleazy, dumb, short-sighted, contemptible, and made me absolutely lose whatever respect I had for the man. The way he gobbled up Republican money after years of criticizing the Democrats for taking corporate cash exposed him as a complete and total hypocrite. The way he said he didn't care if his candidacy caused Bush to get re-elected, oh man, I fume just thinking about it. I can understand why Ralph ran in 2000. The country was in strong shape, Clinton's move to the center had alienated many progressives, myself included. But after seeing how disastrous Bush really was, for Nader to just accept his role as Republican backed Democratic spoiler and not give a shit about the consequences for the country and the planet was beyond contemptible.

Fuck Nader. He's an obsolete jackass now.

[bluestateguy]

49. I'd rather hear what President Santos has to say about the situation

[Karmadillo]

50. Kick

nt

[malaise]

52. 100% accurate Ralph n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. Nader Is Either A Useful Idiot For The BFEE Or A Willing Accomplice

My money is on the latter.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. Like the Dems who just voted to suppor the invasion of Lebanon?

Or, the ones who voted to support Bush's invasion and occupation of Iraq?

[Biernuts]

56. This motherfucker blames the US for sunspots too. He's had his

15 minutes - consign him to the trashheap of history.

[DemonFighterLives]

58. I don't care too much for Nader

and maybe I read something wrong- but- he makes a lot of sense here.
Our Messianic leader is flushing the country.
:hurts:

[daydreamer]

62. "a absurdly compliant Hillary Clinton"

Exactly. It's disgusting!

[AtomicKitten]

63. It appears Mr. Nader is running for president again.

:(

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. Many of our Democratic leaders are saying the same thing.

They're protesting against the slaughter in Lebanon as vociforuously and courageously as Ralph, standing up agsinst Bush's hands-off policy, decrying Condi's equasion of the carnage with "birth pangs", calling for an immediate cease fire.

Aren't they?

[Armstead]

66. Dennis Kucinich, Loretta Sanche and a few others....but otherwise

...the Democrats are just as bad as Bush on this.

[philly_bob]

67. If election was stolen stop blaming Nader.

Listen to him, he's a smart guy, recognizes danger of corporate influence. And because he's Lebanese-American, I'd listen to him on Lebanon.

Of course, none of us will ever forget his 2000 election stance of "They are both the same." In other words, don't give him your unreserved trust; at his worst he's a leftist ideologue (his theories and categories are more important than facts).

Turn the page, folks. But keep the book.