Who holds more sway over Bush, the Israelis or the Saudis?

[Philosoraptor]

Bush has met with his beloved Saudis, on a Sunday yet, to discuss a cease fire in the new middle east conflict which has no name yet.

We often hear how Israel influences our government, but let's face it, so do the Saudis.

I wonder to whom the greater loyalty lies?

[Behind the Aegis]

1. Follow the money.

The Saudis have more influence. Actually, not the Saudis, per se, but rather, the oil barons.

[Dead_Parrot]

6. Agreed...

Support for Israel might pull in the fundie votes, but support for oil pulls in those unmarked greenbacks. I've no doubt where chimpy's priorities lie.

[radfringe]

13. golden rule:

Who ever has the gold - rules...

or in the case - the black gold

[az chela]

2. Probably with the saudis

They are the ones with the most money and we are always supplying Israel with weapons and money.Millions of dollars

[DELUSIONAL]

3. We shall see . . . Oil is thicker than blood. . . . . . .

The Saudi must know that bush is a racist pig . . they must know what he thinks of the brown people.

Or is this really just class warfare?

The really really rich can be from any race, have any skin color -- the only criteria for being part of this select 1/2 of 1 % or even more selective than that -- the only criteria is a hell of a lot of money.

Then the Saudis might have more importance than the Israelis.

Which side are the Neocons on?? The really really rich? or Israel????

[Douglas Carpenter]

4. probably equal ... but a totally different kinds of influence

When it comes to issues of oil policy I would think the Saudis have considerably more influence.

However, when it comes to issues of military action I would think that Israel probably carries more weight.

I doubt that Israel would have much direct sway over American oil policy. Just as the Saudis would have only minor influence when it comes to Israeli policy toward their neighbors and to the occupied territories.

[Philosoraptor]

5. The Saudis aren't in this war, why won't he meet with Syria & Lebanon?

Or Abbas, or Hamas? Why the Saudis, on a Sunday afternoon? Oil is the football here in my opinion, and our team will probably win.

[Selatius]

8. The Saudis probably want assurances there will be no more escalation

They do not want events occuring that could also destabilize their own regime in the face of an unhappy population that they reign over. Raising concerns about attacking Iran or Syria is probably on the agenda with the Saudis.

[Philosoraptor]

11. I guess we'll never know, they met in semi privacy.

That is what's so odd, it was on the news, but they didn't actually show the Saudi representative, just W ape walking into the white house to meet with Condi and the Saudi.

Why the sneakiness?

[WilliamPitt]

24. "The Saudis aren't in this war"

Really.

Back during the oil embargo in the 1970s, the Saudis had a back-door deal with the United States, which was still fighting in Vietnam.

The embargo, you see, was severely screwing with our ability to carry on the war; one cannot fight a modern war without plentiful petroleum. OPEC was serious, and no Arab nation could be seen as messing with their ability to have the US over a barrel.

So the back door deal was simple: we got oil from the Saudis on the sly for our warships, which were carrying troops and materiel to the Pacific Rim, they got paid handsomely, and neither side breathed a word.

American interests = Saud interests = the same but flipped...except for those family members who fund Wahabbist terrorism....which justifies the wars...which fill the coffers of the House of Saud...etc.

There is nothing more beautiful than a perfect circle.

[WilliamPitt]

7. Philosophy v. money

Which do you think wins?

You'd think it'd be a a toss-up when you're dealing with these guys, but work it through.

The guys with the philosophy work inside the White House, or work in a tight orbit just outside.

But the guys writing the checks don't give a fuck about philosophy. They just want to be able to keep writing the checks without even noticing the money they're spending. As long as the 'philosophers' inside the administration don't imperil that, they'll keep writing the checks. As soon as they do...well, you'll have your answer.

Dig in a little deeper, of course, and it's more complicated: which industry do you cater to? The military industrialists or the oil barons? The military industrialists get checks from Israel, while the barons get their money from the House of Saud.

It winds up in the same spot, in the end. War is profitable, but oil (at least for the time being) is way more profitable.

Money wins. Always.

Sic semper short-term thinking.

[Philosoraptor]

9. & of course we supply ALL sides with Arms.

A big big chunk to Israel, but we're THE number one arms dealer in the world.

I just thought it was odd the way they just showed Bush walking into the white house on a Sunday afternoon without the usual fanfare they give foreign dignitaries.

[Selatius]

10. I've always thought the ideologues were just tools of Corporatists

The ideologues so utterly believe the bullshit they spew on America, and you are right to say the corporatists, the money-lenders and influence peddlers, don't give a damn about their ideology as long as it advances the narrow interests of their business empires.

The second these ideologues become harmful to one's interests is the second the corporatist who was harmed becomes an enemy. Maybe the reason so many news reports critical of Bush have been surfacing recently is because more than a few corporatists have been harmed by Bush's stupidity that they felt the need to "let in the criticism" from the peasantry.

At this level of power, these corporatists owe allegiance to no one but themselves, and any alliances made are made strictly to gain power. There is no honor among them, just profiteering, and they often do battle each other over trying to gain interest over politicians, but the only time they do set aside their differences and work together is when they're dealing with threats from poor and common people and conscientious individuals who would actually think to challenge their dominant position in society. Regardless of differences, the poor must be prevented from gaining power.

[WilliamPitt]

15. "the poor must be prevented from gaining power"

Thus it has ever been. Ask the Romans. Why do you think they nailed Jesus to the crossties?

Seriously. It's as old as dirt.

That's why I believe in evolution. One of these days, we'll evolve beyond these bastards. I won't be around for it, but I do have faith.

[Ms. Clio]

12. they are both client states of the empire n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

14. I'm going with the Saudis. I don't think Bush gives a shit for Israel.

I really don't.

[WilliamPitt]

16. Bush inherited the problem of Israel when he took office

He inherited the problem of Saudi Arabia when he was born.

The family business, ya know.

Hm.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Funny "problem", that family Saud.

Seems like they've bailed him out more than once.

[WilliamPitt]

21. Pshaw

Just because his failing oil bidnesses got all those financial bailouts and special contracts from "parts unknown," and just because the Carlyle Group did fantastic bidness with the Saudi BinLaden Group, and just because the Wahabbist terrorists who attacked on 9/11 came from the Saudi desert...

...oops...

...I said the loud part quiet and the quiet part loud...

[Warren DeMontague]

22. You're obviously one of those conspiracy nuts.

Trying to confuse good Americans with those totally unrelated facts and coincidences.

Now, let me sell you my videotape explaining how Hillary Clinton hung crack pipes on the White House Christmas tree after she and Bill barbecued and ate Vince Foster.

[WilliamPitt]

23. ...before working with all her substantial might

to put every Bible in the land to the torch, abort every third baby on general principles, ban heterosexual marriage, fill every gun with molten lead before dropping them into the Mariannes Trench, establish Farsi as the national language, raise taxes 97.2214% across the board, and sell the Sixth Fleet to Osama bin Laden for pennies on the dollar and a kilo of Afghan White.

The White is cheap these days, ya know, thanks to our successful war in Afghanistan. Can't have an economic downturn in America and Europe without easy access to heroin. That would defy history, and put every classic rock radio station in the country out of business.

Because when the smack begins to flow
I really dont care anymore
About all the jim-jims in this town
And all the politicians makin crazy sounds
And everybody puttin everybody else down
And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds...

...shhhhh...it's a big liberal secret...Hillary for President...pass it on...don't tell NewsMax...

;)

:rofl:

[Skidmore]

17. None of the above...

Let's try considering the collective business interest of the Bush family. My guess is that he consults with Poppy and the Board before making any moves.

[WilliamPitt]

18. My kingdom for a copy

of the minutes of the last Carlyle Group board meeting...

[Warren DeMontague]

20. Well, I always thought that if the NSA was really interested in Osama's

"Friends and Family" circle, they should start there.

[Solly Mack]

28. Exactly. Once you accept that the Bush family uses political office

to further their interests, then you know there's only one factor in their thinking... their interests. Not a country's and not the people's...their interests and their interests alone.

As long as an action achieves their goals...that's an action they'll suppport. They don't care what the consequences are to others.

[Philosoraptor]

25. With my own eyes I've seen W kissing & holding hands with Abdullah.

He won't do that with any other Arab or Muslim parties.

[soothsayer]

26. He loves the sauds, and is scared of Israel (who isn't? They say

'we've got nukes, and ain't afraid to use 'em!!'

[Philosoraptor]

27. kik