AP: DLCers say Party should talk about Religion

[Perky]

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEMOCRATS_RELIGION?SITE=CATOR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-23-17-34-52

<snip>

DENVER (AP) -- Rather than being bashful, Democrats should openly talk about their religious beliefs and moral values, say moderates urging the party to court voters beyond the traditional Democratic base to win control of the GOP-run Congress this fall and the presidency in 2008.

"If we continue to have this perception in the Democratic Party that faith can't be discussed, we'll continue to lose elections based on wedge issues," said Terrance Carroll, a Colorado state representative.

The view, espoused by Democrats attending the centrist Democratic Leadership Council's annual meeting, could irritate liberals who advocate a strict separation of church and state.

But moderates claim that invoking religion will help Democrats connect with churchgoing Americans - including Republicans and independents - who polls show are more apt to vote with the GOP.

"Democrats have run from the values issues. We now have to deal with those issues of faith," said Randal Mangham, a state representative in Georgia.

[Warpy]

1. The DLC has been WRONG about EVERYTHING

Get these conservative dinosaurs out of power. Above all, don't listen to a word they have to say. They've lost us all three branches of government with their rotten advice, yuppie platform, and stupid campaign strategies.

They've done enough to us.

[tularetom]

2. Can we still ridicule those who believe that

they will be hoovered up to heaven right out of their clothes, cars, houses, jewelry and the fillings in their teeth (not sure what they believe about tattoos)?

[magellan]

3. Religion OUT of politics

If our representatives are religious, fine. If voters are religious, fine. But it's time to put it in its place -- and its place is not in politics.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. Why are people so afraid of religion?

There is NO reason to pander to religion, nor should people pretend that it is only the "religious" that are moral. However, to shy away from the fact that even liberals and Democrats are religious is suicidal and allows the "right" to win where they should not.

[Clark2008]

8. Wow - we finally agree on something.

We don't agree on much, but, on this topic, we do.

I don't care about the DLC - I think, for the most part, they suck. But there's no reason to pretend that religion doesn't effect voters and that voters don't think about it.

Should it dominate? No. But, it's a fact of life for millions of Americans and shouldn't be ignored.

[bluethruandthru]

15. You're right.

I'm sick of Repukes acting like they've cornered the market on morals! I don't even think it's necessarily "religion". They continually paint Democrats as immoral and we need to stop letting them win! People need to realize that war is immoral, ruining the environment is immoral, neglecting the poor is immoral, pandering to big business at the expense of the middle class is immoral, etc., etc.,

[bklyncowgirl]

5. Obviously it depends on the politician

Politicians who are genuinely religious should talk about their faith if they feel comfortable about doing so--it is after all a major part of who they are.

Politicians who are not religious or who do not feel comfortable about talking about their beliefs should not feel pressured to do so. When that happens it becomes all too painfully obvious thaty they're faking it--like when Howard Dean accidently said his favorite book of the New Testament was Job.

A secular politician like Dean is much more effective talking about the civic virtues that we should all aspire to--the universal values of honesty, thrift, hard work and caring for our neighbors and the world around us than trying to impress churchgoers with phony piety.

[Perky]

6. Well said.

I have often thought the vitriol about faith on the left is an over-reaction to the vitriol on the right.

People choose to ignore the valuable contribution made by the religous among us. The abolitionist ovemnet was led by mena nd women of faith. As was the Civil rights Movement. Look at people og aith who have gotten nvolved in politics based on their faith and have made contributions.

MLK
Jimmy Carter
Mark Hatfield

To eschew all relgious dicusion in the public square is a dangerous thing and give more weight to the Falwells, Dobsons and Robertsons of the work then they deserve.

[papau]

9. Dean&wife's Episcopal/United Church of Christ/Jewish/spiritual life is

secular?

Asking why God created a world where good people get hurt - the Old Testament Book of Job - implies you are secular?

Perhaps not going to services every week implies more "spiritual" than religious, but it sure does not imply "secular", at least IMHO.

[bklyncowgirl]

12. What's wrong with saying secular?

Howard Dean was asked what was his favorite New Testament book. He replied Job. I totally agree that the book of Job is a story with an important theme and lesson. The problem is it's an old Testament book.

This was clearly a misstatement--I love Howard but you have to admit that sometimes his mouth runs faster than his brain--he's a native New Yorker, its a common affliction among us. I forgive him, but for a politician to try to talk religion and then get tripped up on something that basic on a subject that's very dear to many of those people he's trying to reach--that's a screw up. He looked like a pandering phony.

For the record I remember that Dean's pastor came to his defense by stating that while he may not be a regular churchgoer, the former Governor is a man who lived the Christian virtues even though he's not someone who tends toward public expressions of faith.

That's what I meant by secular. I'd rather have an honest atheist running the country than a crooked Christian--I'm not saying by the way that Dean's an atheist--the man's a doctor by profession and not a theologian and he's more compelling talking about morality than religion.

Incidentally, I think that Jesus would have approved. After all he's the guy who told people to stop prancing about in the Synagogue where everyone could admire their piety and go into a closet by themselves when they wanted to pray. He also said "Render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar but render unto God what is God's." Jesus understood the separation of church and state.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

21. For some people, secular = child eater.

Whereas, for rational people, secular = a person that doesn't care about religion.

Dean seems to be exactly that, since he looks not too versed about the Bible. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[papau]

24. The vast majority of Dems are rational religious believers who don't

see those who are secular as child eaters.

However some secular Democrats do seem to feel that the religious are less than rational.

I wonder why some of the secular fear Democratic leaders discussing their religious feelings.

Indeed I wonder why some secular Democrats feel that any rational Democrat that discusses his religious feelings will, because he is rational, come off looking like a pandering phony.

Indeed I wonder why some secular Democrats feel that discussions of religion are less compelling to the average Democratic Party voter than discussions of things secular.

At least we know that on DU, DU posters do not see either group - secular or religious - as child eaters.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. Thankfully, your first sentence IS correct. -nt

[papau]

22. nothing is wrong with "secular" - but DU use equates to non-believer

And Dean is not a non-believer.

As in a Secular Jew being into the culture but not into the religion, secular appears to be code on DU for, as you say, the honest atheist.

I have broke bread with Dean when he was Governor of Vermont. He is religious. And as you say, his pastor had to remind folks of the tone/socially accepted form of religion - indeed of most things - in New England - namely. again as you state, regular churchgoing is good but most are only occasional church goers, and for goodness sake, please no public expressions of faith.

By the way, Dean had no real problem discussing religion/morals/ethics in my brief very small group lunch encounter, although I doubt he would do well in a "this means that because this chapter says this and that chapter says that" discussion. I don't regard finding Job the most interesting chapter of the Bible as being tripped up -perhaps because I feel the same interest in Job.

[Cassandra]

13. It's well worth talking about morals and values...

which are the point, after all, of being religious, although we all know these are honored more in the breach than in the observance. I think if Democrats talk about what are the values to aim for in our society, people listening can apply their own religion to those values.

[Dogmudgeon]

7. To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw ...

Those who can, do.

Those who can't, preach.

--p!
Can I get an 'Amen'?

[shadowknows69]

10. Yes, we should talk about

what a scourge to civilized society it has been when wielded by people seeking power.

[Perky]

11. I agree

But I think it can be used for obtaining power in contructive ways as well.

Carter, MLK, Ghandi, etc.

I think the problem is not so nearly so much with religion as it is with the level to which we think the politics it purportedly spawns agrees with our our own politics.

If the politcs agree with our own we become tolerant of religious underpinnings, if they don't then we blame relgion as maleloevant.

[WePurrsevere]

14. They should be honest about who they are. If their spiritual/religious....

beliefs are an integral part of that then, if asked about it, they should be comfortable discussing it without "preaching".

OTOH I think the DLC is making a foolish mistake assuming that people voted for Bush because of his talking about "values" and religion.

[pansypoo53219]

16. well, i am sick and tired of the republikan pharisee

party. i want my country AND my God back. jesus talked a hell of a lot more about caring for the poor than homosexuals.
there will always be more of them that need church, than we who don't. let's at least let the sheeple know we are the party of jesus.

[mopinko]

17. if voters didn't pay attention in 7th grade civics, dems

should be out there teaching it to them NOW! the only acceptable discussion of religion and politics, imho, is to point out why they do not mix. stop pandering to ignorance.

[HereSince1628]

18. Another "Me Too" approach from the DLC?

The DLC's habit of "me too" is one of the things that R's use to say Democrats don't have any ideas of their own. Why once again draw attention and burden the entire party with this weakness of the practice of "triangulation?"

If a candidate is a practicing believer the behaviors that are linked to that belief will surely be noticed by voters who think it's important.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. The founders disagree.

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." - Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

[leesa]

20. I disagree. We should be clear about 'privacy' rather than 'pro-choice'

and 'civil rights' instead of 'gay marriage'. We need to DIFFUSE these hot buttons. More DLC copy cat nonsense.

[me b zola]

23. I pray the dlc fall into a deep, dark hole

:evilgrin:

[6000eliot]

25. The Party should talk about getting rid of the DLC.

[sweetheart]

26. Lotta good vibes out there in american religion

Why not let a little in? It won't hurt none to listen. Listening is different, IMO,
than what is going oin in repuke land, and it certainly couldn't hurt to have
religious persons able to speak freely about their beliefs without fear of ridicule
or rude behaviour inside the tent.

But really, the secular story should be so compelling, so impressive, te progressive
adgenda, that religion might seem dreamy and removed by the pragmatic realpolitik of
ending the suffering of the many.

[NewJeffCT]

28. I'm an atheist and against the DLC

However, I think those Democrats that are religious, should feel free to talk about their religion in their lives. I also feel that politicians should not feel obligated to mention God in every speech and I do not think that one's religion should interfere with issues of state.

Outside of Bill O'Reilly, I don't think anybody would question that Jimmy Carter is a moral person and a deeply religious man. However, I don't think he let his religion dominate him when it came to deciding political matters.