How do you feel about the billions of YOUR tax $$'s going to Israel?

[Philosoraptor]

We've been sending them God knows how many billions of OUR TAX DOLLARS for decades, and selling them tons and tons of arms as well.

How do you feel about this? How much more money would the U.S. have now if we didn't do this?

And while I'm at it, its not just Israel, we give billions to other nations as well which I never could justify unless its for tsunami aid or loans, but outright giving of billions.

[Warpy]

1. I've wanted to get them off the taxpayer tit for years

After nearly 60 years, they really should be self sufficient.

As for foreign aid, much of it is absolutely vital, but it's often squandered, food aid sold for hard currency to buy weapons rather than used to fee a country's starving people. If we give aid, we need to distribute that aid, also.

[schmuls]

9. If they can't get off our tit after 60 years, maybe they shouldn't be

a nation! That goes for other countries as well.

[schmuls]

2. I feel fckg. pissed about it. What can the "average citizen" do

about it? Could we put up enough of a united front to batter down the Israel lobbyists in Washington? What am I missing?

[katinmn]

45. Only vote for candidates that don't take money from AIPAC

[liberal N proud]

3. Bu$h doesn't see this killing as murder but Stem Cell research is???

I don't understand how they can distinguish between allowing wars to continue when they are so "Pro Life"

[rfranklin]

4. It is financing to maintain a foothold in the Middle East...

which conveniently works to get a great number of Jewish votes and now, with the Rapture scenario growing in popularity, it also gets the Fundie vote.

[MADem]

5. We have two choices, you see.

We can DIRECTLY FUND our defense industries (in effect, nationalizing them).

OR, we can give money to others, and they use the money to prop up our defense industries. Then, we can run around the world bragging about how swell we are to dole out all this cash.

The system benefits our readiness posture.
That's why we do it. It is not charity by any stretch.

Some may not like it, but don't ever make the mistake of thinking those grants, Foreign Military Sales, and long-term loans are "charity." Charity, in those scenarios, begins at home.

[soothsayer]

12. aha! good point

[tomp]

31. "our readiness posture"

an imperialist euphemism if i ever heard one. ready to strike in defense of corporate interests, more like it.

[acmejack]

6. It sucks!

Especially in light of this:
snip>
Mr Netanyahu predicts that within a decade Israel, with a population of about seven million, will be among the world’s ten wealthiest countries. It is in the top 20 already. Key to his plan is the opening up of competition and the completion of the privatisation of state assets. Stakes in El-Al, the airline, and Bezeq, the telecoms group, have been sold already by the Government, which is planning to sell its controlling stake in Bank Leumi, one of the country’s largest banks.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,16849-1688958,00.html

[Deja Q]

7. Can't we have billions of tax dollars instead?

The US should be first and foremost in its infrastructure.

[ThomCat]

8. I wouldn't mind, IF Israel was spending it on

promoting peace and prosperity, instead of war and hatred.

[soothsayer]

10. Well, it's a hard place for them to survive, so I reckon mebbe they

need some help. But our favoritism and largess do spawn all sorts of rumors, like Israel controls all the telecom switches in the US and therefore can tap any line and therefore has all the goods on every US politician.

[acmejack]

11. Why fund a Country that is among the twenty richest in the World?

Especially while we are borrowing money? It is stupidity at it best!

[Imajika]

13. No problem with me...

I support Israel in this conflict against Hizbullah, as I have supported Israel in most other conflicts they have been involved in. I have no problem with my tax dollars going to support Israel, and have no problem with supporting them militarily either.

To me, Israel does the world a favor by seriously degrading Hizbullah. I am not for a cease fire if it will leave Hizbullah intact and on the border with Israel.

Sometimes ya gotta take sides. I take Israel's on this one.

[acmejack]

17. Sometimes it is good to take the side of humanity.

The innocents need someone to speak for them, the dogs of war are too busy howling to consider that their blood is being spilled in large quantities. It is something that we here shall inevitably pay for in the future.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. So why don't you pay for it yourself?

In fact, have you considered immigrating to Israel and enlisting?

[daydreamer]

49. Isreal has universal heath care, but we don't.

I think they should send us some money.

[lutefisk]

57. We're paying for it there so we don't have to pay for it here...n/t

[sinkingfeeling]

14. I feel about the same as having my tax dollars funding a $500 billion a

year US military....wish there was a way to stop paying for it without jail time!

[AngryOldDem]

15. The money could be much better spent here at home

Sorry, I don't mean to sound anti-Israel, or isolationist. But facts are facts. Israel should stand on its own, especially since it is more than capable of taking down just about any other army in the Mideast -- or so I've been led to understand.

We should support other countries, but not to the point where we're the equivalent of an addict's enabler.

[EFerrari]

16. I object to our treasury being sacked by warmongers

no matter where the money is sent.

[acmejack]

20. That is one of the sanest things I have read today!

Bless you, Beth!

[EFerrari]

33. I haven't been very sane through this heat. Fog rolled in this

morning.

:)

[EVDebs]

19. ...which is about the same going to Egypt

In order to prevent the Egyptians from attacking Israel again. In either case, preventing war should seem a good investment. In the long run though jihadic bloodlust will require that we simply find other sources of fuel and begin conservation measures in earnest here in the West.

If mankind wishes to honor The Great Architect of the Universe by slaying his/her neighbor, the best thing to do is stay out of that neighborhood, or as Mark 6 : 1-13 would put it, if they won't even listen to you, shake the dust from your sandals and leave.

Those in Israel obviously can't just pick up and go elsewhere, especially since it's believed they possess atomic weapons. They might just take everyone with them...if pressed too far.

[acmejack]

25. NOt so!

snip>
$2.5 billion in aid to Israel, $1.8 billion for Egypt and $450 million for Sudan.

http://usinfo.state.gov/mena/Archive/2006/Jun/11-539694.html

snip>
In 2005, Israel and Egypt are set to receive $2.2 billion and $1.3 billion in grants, respectively.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53129-2004Jul15.html

edit to add 2006 data

[EVDebs]

29. Maybe...this has been going on for quite a while

"Israel and Egypt together receive about 40 percent of the total U.S. foreign aid budget. This extraordinary assistance began twenty years ago after the two countries signed a peace agreement at Camp David in 1978. At that time Israel appeared as a bulwark against encroaching communism in the Middle East, while President Anwar Sadat had taken Egypt from the Soviet camp to join Israel and the United States in peacemaking." and

"...Congress in 1997 placed a cap of $5.4 billion per year on aid to the Middle East. The Middle East appropriation for 1998 includes $85 million for West Bank/Gaza, $193 million for Jordan, and $12.5 million for Lebanon. With the ceiling in place, the Administration must look to the huge pot going to Israel and Egypt as it seeks funding for new needs related to the peace process and regional development." from Aid to Israel 1998

http://www.cmep.org/Alerts/alert7.htm

[Wwagsthedog]

30. My arithmetic tells me...

...that Israel gets about $440 per capita versus $13 per capita for Egypt. This assumes 5 mil. Israelis and 100 mil. Egyptians. How many of thesse people do you support?

[Finder]

21. I support the use of my tax dollars going to help secular democracies...

everywhere including Israel. I do not support a penny of my tax dollars going to theocracies or dictatorships unless it is for purely humanitarian reasons.

[Jacobin]

22. I don't approve of it

The takeover of Palestinian lands has caused nothing but bloodshed and violence all over the world for 60 years. It is not in our national interest.

Holy Land Grabbers, whether Irish, British, Arab, or Jewish shouldn't have monetary support from the U.S. IMHO

[treestar]

23. I think we should take it all back and spend it in the US

Equally as to all countries.

I don't see that right now we have to defend other countries as a part of our own defense.

In the old days, maybe it made sense to help Western Europe as against the Soviets. But now, not so much. It's just the imperialists who think US "defense" means military aid to other countries.

Makes me think of a few weeks ago when DU was all about illegal immigrants. We might have the $$ to enforce the immigration laws to the satisfaction of all if we didn't spend it on foreign countries.

I can see coming to the aid of victims of things like the tsunami, but even that doesn't require the aid to come directly from the government.

[tabasco]

24. They have nukes.

Time to cut that military aid number by quite a bit and start takin care of our own citizens.

[displacedtexan]

26. Aren't we really paying for human intelligence (spies)?

Who else is indigenous to every country and able to
move in circles Anglo-Saxons, er... can't?

I've always thought we were "sending aid" but actually
disguising payment for services rendered.

[noonwitch]

36. If our president actually read the intelligence info provided to him

By Israel. Israel, Egypt, and other countries all warned us before 9-11, for all the good it did.

[mom cat]

27. I strongly object to the funds going to the top three recipients of our

largess: Israel, Egypt and Columbia. All three are recipients who support American geo-political strategy in exchange for the handouts. In al three, there are horrendous human rights abuses aimed at keeping oppressive regimes in power, to the benefit of the elites and the subjugation of the masses.

[juajen]

35. I don't believe we should be sending money

anywhere when we are broke. Whoever heard of buying a yacht when you cannot afford butter.

I say no more foreign aid until we are out of debt, and our infrastructure is healthy again.

I think Suzie Orm (scuse the spelling, but you know who I mean) should be President. She'll whip us into shape. Go Suze!!

Sometimes it really is KISS.

[mom cat]

60. I think that we will only get to KISS after the crash.

[genie_weenie]

28. Well, I think this issue will automatically go to extremes

Either you are for the US model of Represenative Democracy in which many things one does not agree with get funded nonetheless or you must support those who feel only complete voluntary donation of funds can be used for any government program (including all roads, public schools, tsunami releif, NO relief, etc)

I do not believe this is a false dichotomy. And while it may be possible to compromise with some people, eventually some demagouge will get into office who will push the limits and put you right back in the current situation.

[earth mom]

32. Enough is Enough!

Time to start taking care of people here in THIS country that are suffering! How about the Katrina victims?! Hmm?! Or the disabled, the mentally ill or the elderly?! The list of people who could use help in this country is endless!

This bullshit has got to go! I'm sick of it!!! :grr:

[theboss]

34. The same way I feel about most foreign aid

I don't understand why we do any of it.

Of course, I always find it interesting that Israel is the only country whose foreign aid gets complaints. No one complaints about Egypt.

[johnaries]

37. It's an indirect way to subsidize our own arms manufacturers.

On an interview on Democracy Now! it was stated that 70% of the military funds we give them they use to buy weapons from US arms manufacturers. Why else would we be giving funds to one of the largest militaries on the planet?

The Military Industrial Complex is alive and well.

[RamboLiberal]

38. I think it's damn well time they stand on their own

We're allowing the U.S. to turn in to a 2nd tier country while giving money to a developed country. I have no problem with foreign aid to third world countries but it's past time to get Israel off the U.S. dole.

And I would like to see arms sales stopped by us, Russia, France, Britain, Iran, China, North Korea, etc. If you want a war weapon build the damn factories and technology on your own. From M-16s to AK-47's to missiles, bombs, fighter jets, etc., any country that exports weapons are nothing but enablers.

[Spider Jerusalem]

39. Specious argument.

They aren't 'our tax dollars'. Payment of tax is a duty of incumbent upon all citizens; it's holding up our end of the social contract. Therefore, it is NOT 'your' money. It is the government's money, to be budgeted and apportioned by our duly elected representatives in Congress and spent on such things as highway maintenance, defence, education, and (shockingly enough) foreign aid (which last is usually done for political and geostrategic reasons, admittedly).

My reaction to this is the same as when I hear a right-wing Protestant fundamentalist saying he doesn't want 'his tax dollars' paying for sex education, or welfare, or environmental regulation (to wit, that it is an argument based upon ignorance).

[bobalu]

54. Hardly..."Taxation without Representation is tyranny"

..and I don't believe that Israel or Egypt or any other country "represents" me or the bulk of the US population to the tune of billions of dollars.

[Spider Jerusalem]

64. Another specious argument.

If you reread what I said, I stated clearly that the dispersal of revenues obtained through taxation is the responsibility of our representatives in Congress.

[oberliner]

40. That .08 Percent of our Budget is crippling us nt

[SammyBlue]

41. I feel great about it. I feel great about aid to Israel.

I feel ashamed the tsumani aid was loans. . .but I feel great we're giving aid to Israel. It upholds the Truman doctrine of supporting democracy around the world, no matter the political costs.

Unfortunately, under this idiot, democracy is a suspect word. Hugo Chavez was democratically elected and Bush wants him out. Hmmmmmmmm.

[Triana]

42. bu$hit sent them more weapons last week...

I feel the same way about giving Israel money as I do about our wasting so much of it Iraq. All that money could be SO better spent! But since we essentially have taxation without representation these days and haven't a thing to say about it - here we are, with the gov't sending OUR money into idiotic pre-emptive wars based on lies and to regimes that are as despotic as our current one is.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

43. Here's a relevant poll that got moved...

to I/P that some of you may have missed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x134550

[lostnfound]

44. 70% of it comes right back to Lockheed & other US corporations

It's an aspect not often discussed, but Frida Berrigan was discussing it the other day on DemocracyNow! http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/21/1432202

"F-16s made in Fort Worth, Texas; its Apache helicopters; its Sparrow and Sidewinder missiles"

Lockheed Martin and the Israeli military recently went into business together, co-producing a version of the F-16 fighter plane called the Sufa, which means “storm” in Hebrew. It’s built partially outside of Tel Aviv, and then the final work is done in Ft. Worth, Texas. It’s a $4 billion deal with the Israeli military. For the first time, an Israeli military company is contributing in its manufacturing the avionics of the plane. So there’s this -- it’s almost this supranational relationship between Lockheed Martin and the Israeli defense industry. It’s a kind of relationship that weapons corporations in this country would like to see with other countries, where they work directly with -- they sort of transcend government and work directly with the manufacturers of weapons in other countries.

Another major corporation -- you mentioned the missiles -- is Raytheon, which is based in Massachusetts. They manufacture the Tomahawk missile, the Sidewinder, a number of other high-tech missiles that Israel has in its arsenal. These missiles have very sophisticated targeting components -- heat-seeking, they’re interfaced with GPS for very targeted attacks.

Boeing is another major corporation. They manufacture all sorts of planes: the F-18 fighter plane, the F-14. So you have maybe ten weapons corporations in this country that have a stake in -- essentially in Israel using its military arsenal so that it can be replenished again. And the great thing about this relationship with Israel is, Israel doesn’t have to pay for it itself. It comes directly from U.S. taxpayers in the form of foreign military financing, which is transferred to Israel, and then turns right back around and goes to Lockheed Martin or Raytheon

[EFerrari]

48. That's also the premise of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"

-- a work I found sort of dishonest but on another level, revealing.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0452287081.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_V58509623_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452287081/sr=1-1/qid=1153772853/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0959771-3308128?ie=UTF8&s=books

[NAO]

46. Don't we get "Brownie Points" from God or something?

You know, sort of "you scratch my chosen people's back, I'll scratch your back".

Seriously, I am certain that there are literally MILLIONS of Americans - who are active voters - who think something exactly along these lines.

[B Calm]

47. Call me conservative, but it's a total waste of our money.

[Dob Bole]

50. Carter did it, it's kept peace between Egypt and Israel, and I support it.

Egypt especially needs the money. The deal has lasted for over 25 years, so why scrap it now?

The 6 billion that we give to Israel is miniscule compared to the money that we've wasted in Iraq. The crunch on our national budget is due to federal waste, not foreign aid.

[daydreamer]

51. 6 billion is A LOT OF TAXES.

[Dob Bole]

53. True, but how much is peace worth?

I'm more concerned about how Israel and Egypt spend some of their money, not the money itself. 6 Billion is a lot of taxes- $24 per person each year, in fact. But how much money (not to mention number of lives) has peace between Israel/allies and Egypt/allies saved each year?

I'd say at least 24 bucks worth. One meal at a nice restaurant.

[daydreamer]

55. Why would our $6 billion keep them at peace?

[CuteNFuzzy]

52. If we want to support Israel fine

But paying to help them murder people and bomb cities it just is not right

[lastliberalintexas]

56. Anti-foreign aid is a republican sentiment

One can be disgusted by the countries' use of those funds for weapons rather than food for their peoples, and we could even demand that such a prohibition on use be a prerequisite to the funds. But foreign aid makes up a very, very small percentage of our budget, and I'd much rather my tax dollars go to feeding the hungry of the world than to Halliburton. :)

[yy4me]

58. Not very good, Why do we do it, votes?

The country is prosperous, yet we keep giving them money. Why?

[Make7]

59. To be fair....

... perhaps we should give half of that military aid bestowed upon Israel to the Palestinians so they can acquire more sophisticated weaponry. (Such as some really good surface to air missiles.) As it stands right now, it's not much of a fair fight, is it?

-Make7

[FILAM23]

61. I hate it

but then again I hate any and all routine foreign aid, except after
natural disasters.

[Skittles]

62. sick

it's not right

[goforit]

63. phuck it! Time to throw the tea overboard!!!