Casual Anti-Semitism

[cracksquirrel]

So on Sunday my family was invited over to a family friend's house for a hot summer night barbecue, in typical Armenian "stuff you till you burst" fashion. I sat at a table with three high school kids, a junior, a senior, and one kid just about to go off to UC Davis. During the course of conversation, we talked about politics, what an ass Bush made of himself at G8, etc. All was well and good.
Then came the bizarre part. In virtually the same breath, one of the kids stated first: that Israel was unfairly scapegoated and used as a whipping boy by the world at large, and second: that the only reason that the US supports Israel is because "the Jews control congress." This was greeted by vigorous agreement by the other two kids.
Here I was faced with this cloud of cognitive dissonance orbiting my head. On the one hand, support of Israel by what I would deem progressive-minded individuals. On the other hand, anti-semitic (anti-Jew, for all you linguistic obfuscators out there) libel that I've been hearing on an alarming basis but usually from detractors of Israel.
How common have these attitudes become? Have any of you run into awkward social moments like this as well? Granted I don't look very Jewish, so they probably felt comfortable spouting that kind of thing around me. When and if something like this comes up, how do you respond?
I usually just say that based on the voting percentages and political attitudes of Jews in this country, if Congress was controlled by the Jews, then Bush would have been impeached years ago! :toast:

[loveable liberal]

1. Make another silly statement that makes your point such as...

"As a Jew, its not just Congress, it is the planet and the Universe we rule. Jesus was a Jew you know.... " Either that or cut them some slack for probably parroting their parents.

[cracksquirrel]

2. Yeah...

I made some jibe about "sending my monthly dues to the Zionist World Conspiracy", but I don't think they got it...
But otherwise, even if they're just parroting their parents, they're still growing up with these attitudes. And that's scary.

[liberalhistorian]

4. LOL!

I would love to see the look on the faces of the ignoramuses who make such statements when something like that is said to them!

[liberalhistorian]

3. That kind of "_______ is controlled

by Jews" bullshit has been around for centuries, unfortunately. People somehow have no trouble believing that Jews control the world, the monetary system and supply, Hollywood, etc., etc., etc. It's as old as the ancient "blood libel" and "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" bullshit.

I find it laughable that anyone would think that Congress was/is controlled by Jews. But never underestimate the stupidity of people, I guess. And you're right, if that were the case, then Dim Son would have been impeached years ago, lol!

But don't make the mistake of thinking that all criticism and condemnation of Israel is anti-semitic; that's far from the case. Most people I know who are critical of some Israeli actions are not anti-semitic, some are even Jews.

[cracksquirrel]

8. Agreed on most counts

Lord knows, living around Berkely I know plenty of Jews who are no fans of Israel. At first I thought of saying "nah, Jews don't control congress, MONEY controls congress!" But then I thought... Oh god, inevitable result of that line of thinking: The Jews control all the money! And the cycle of life continues...:cry:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

52. One of my Jewish friends used to react to "Jews control the world" crap

by looking all innocent and saying, "We do? If I'd known that, I would have asked to be put in charge of the world's supply of chocolate."

[oberliner]

10. Jewish and Antisemitic

I want to respond to this statement:

"Most people I know who are critical of some Israeli actions are not anti-semitic, some are even Jews."

White I completely agree with you that being critical of some Israeli actions definitely does not make you anti-semitic, I do want to point out that just because someone is Jewish does not mean that they cannot also be anti-semitic.

Bobby Fischer being one horrific example of a Jewish person holding deplorable antisemitic views.

[cracksquirrel]

12. Indeed

Hell, there's a thread in GD right now about Condi Rice being classified under the "house negro" phenomenon. And as the OP in that thread stated, every people has enemies within its own ranks. For a long time I tried to avoid all "identity politics", finding them to be a distraction from wider and more important issues and more divisive than uniting. Nowadays I find myself getting sucked back in...

[villager]

5. I was once told at an L.A. party that "the Jews control Hollywood"

used by an otherwise progressive writer as a reason he wasn't able to sell his script. This was some years ago, and I wondered how, if that was true, I knew so many Jews -- including me -- who hadn't "sold scripts" either.

And then, with the flare-ups here on DU... it's as if it's the last bastion of o.k. stereotyping for progressives... because "the Jews" aren't disenfranchised, therefore, blanket statements about them are all right...

[Ravenseye]

7. Pff

Everyone knows that it's the gay people who control Hollywood.

The jews conrol the banks. I thought everyone knew that?

:evilgrin:
:sarcasm:

[Glorfindel]

17. Gays control Hollywood? Good Lord! Why wasn't I informed?

n/t

[Ravenseye]

20. Don't you get the newsletter?

n/t

[cracksquirrel]

13. Sad but true

By the way, awesome icon! I just finished the Watchmen a few weeks ago, I got my mom and sister hooked on Allen Moore now!

[whalerider55]

14. a misunderstanding...

jews actually created hollywood... most of the early film "moguls" (Goldwyn, Louis Mayer- MGM- Selznick, Universal Studios, Fox, Warner Brothers, Loews... nearly all immigrant jews who got in early on films in NY city at the turn of the century, and fled to California to avoid the edisonian patent wars.

btw, they also had to create their own restaurants and country clubs, since they weren't welcomed with open arms.

an interesting history, the subject of several books.

also note that while some of these selfsame moguls couldn't wait to roll over for McCarthy, many of the blacklisted writers and actresses were jewish progressives- John Garfield, Zero Mostel, Hershal Bernardi, Lee J. Cobb.

a unique heritage, one which places those of the hebrew persuasion squarely at the beginning of one of the largest industries in america, as well as center stage for its most shameful moment.

assimilation. it ain't what its cracked up to be.

whalerider

[Ravenseye]

6. People say the darndest things when they don't know you

I've had a woman in my house rail on Arabs in every insane way you can imagine...even to the point of calling them 'horse theives'....seriously..what is this the 18th century? Horse Theives? I let her spew her drivel and then when she was done asked her if she was aware that she was in an Arab house, and that her host was an arab. She looked like I had hit her with a brick in the face.

I don't know if that's what I'd label as anti-semitic as much as just plain ignorant and stupid. I'd respond to that by saying "Really? Honestly? You think 'the jews' (I'd do quote fingers) control congress? What are you just an idiot, or an anti-semite to boot?

High school kids, boys especially, aren't exactly known for ANY kind of tolerance. Mesh that with a crappy educational system in this coutnry and it makes for dumb ass statements. Whether it comes from an adult or a child though, I tend to just politely poke at their idiocy with questions which tend to make them feel embarrased and dumb.

[cracksquirrel]

9. Yeah

But then they hate those mean, snobby intellectual Jews for making them feel embarrased and dumb. :sarcasm:

[Ravenseye]

15. Meh. Mouthbreathers will do that.

White Americans. On average the dumbest people I've ever met. How's that for a stereotype.

:evilgrin:

[cracksquirrel]

21. That's quite a stereotype!

Here's a cookie.

[madeline_con]

28. At last! A breakthrough into truly honest communication!

:bounce:

[cracksquirrel]

32. Fantastic!

Not only do we all agree on the basic definition of "cookie", but we can generally agree that they're good!

[madeline_con]

36. I generally prefer chocolate chip to peanut butter. n/t

[cracksquirrel]

40. What!?

DIE HEATHEN!

[unpossibles]

11. exactly

I got to witness my father-in-law deride "illegal Mexican immigrants" to a friend of mine who is of Mexican descent. He kind of smiled and kept quiet about it, but it was pretty amusing. Later my wife told her dad what he said.

[Ravenseye]

16. Lots of people keep quiet about it

It tends to be the easiest thing. If you're with a racist or someone saying stuff like that, it's far easier to just not say anything. I've known people who do that, and don't hold anything against them. Why make yourself a specific target or get into an argument? It's not worth it generally.

For me though, I prefer to throw it in their faces and try to wake people up. Nine times out of ten, racism in this country is fairly superficial no matter how intense and it can be chipped away. The rest of the time you'll never convince them anyway and with them I generally just drop the conversation and avoid the person after that.

[unpossibles]

19. had it been me, I would have said something

but the person in question chose not to and just defended the argument without making it personal.

[madeline_con]

25. "... crappy educational system .."

In defense of the "system" that employs teachers, check the news and you'll find countless stories of teachers who were hauled up on the carpet for making what, in some cases, were innocuous remarks about politics. As a result, most teachers refrain.

Until the little darlings reach maturity and college when the real world can be discussed without the teacher being fired for upsetting someone's Mommy or Daddy, most talk in school is just the little ignorami repeating something stupid they heard at home.

I had a kid yell, "Kerry's a Jew!" in a class where I was substituting when the talk turned to the elections. :eyes:

[Ravenseye]

26. I don't know, I'd call that pretty crappy

A system where nobody can talk about these kinds of issues breeds people like that, imho. You're absolutely right though, in the aspect that teachers need more protection against an upset Mommy or Daddy.

A principal's standard line to these people should be "if you don't like it you can always put your kids in private school."

I absolutely don't blame the teachers, for the most part, for the crappy educational system. I blame a lack of overall funding. I blame a lack of trainig. i blame a lack of support of teachers. Sure there are bad teachers, but until you solve those other problems we're still going to have a crappy educational system.

[madeline_con]

35. "... put your kids in private school."

LOL! The "Free and Appropriate Education" crowd would have a FIT!

Every kid, parent, ideology, quirk and whim has to be catered to by the public school system these days. Anything and everything a teacher says is taken home and repeated. In a lot of cases, it's misintepreted and someone stomps in to see the Superintendent. The precious angels are always given the benefit of the doubt, even if they're lying to get someone to lose their job.

The only sane response is to conduct yourself as if you're being filmed and recorded. Believe me, I've learned the hard way that the tiniest comment can be fodder for someone looking to sue for damages. :eyes:

[Ravenseye]

37. Yeah. It's total crap.

Teachers have no authority anymore to do anything, and that's one big reason our schools are in trouble. Not only are they afraid to have an opinion, they're even afraid to punish children, for the wrath that it causes in certain parents. Some teachers are lucky enough to have a strong district or principal, but for the most part it seems like they've been abandonded and totally neutered.

I do think that teachers should show all sides of an argument, and should even encourage debate amongs students and act more as a moderator. I think it's probably wrong for a teacher to take a side on a position that isn't a 'fact' within the textbook (ie no "jesus was the true messiah" or "noah's ark was real!" bs) but it's up to the district and the principal to regulate that with information from the parents. Otherwise debate SHOULD be allowed, nay, encouraged in our youth. Make them do research. Make them read. Write. Think.

Instead all too often it seems that because of fear (and often justifiable fear) on the parts of different parties, the kids end up reading a 20 year old textbook and filling in a bubblesheet to be graded.

I'm so sick of our system catering to the lowest common denominator when it comes to education.

[cracksquirrel]

41. This is the inevitable result of the military/industrial complex

How else are you going to create enough under-educted and ignorant worker bees to man the economy to feed the war machine? :tinfoilhat:

[Emit]

18. That's an ignorant or ill-informed statement

but I'm not sure it qualifies as anti-Semitic, especially given their age. It's a sensitive subject, and they'll learn soon enough when they make broad-sweeping statements that are offensive to others.

It reminds me of when I was a young college student traveling with some art majors in San Francisco. I made a comment in earshot of one of the professional artists at his gallery about "art fags" which was a term that came from some band's song (I can't recall now) and had specific meaning based on this song -- it refers to someone who deems him or herself an artist but is really just in it for the look, false premises, etc. He took it out of context and really jumped on me for making such a derogatory comment toward gays, especially in San Francisco. I was very embarrassed and tried to explain the meaning of the term, and of course, bent over backwards trying to also explain how I was not prejudiced toward gays and had many gay friends, etc. Oooh boy -- I really misspoke and learned a great lesson. Twenty years later, I have become much more careful, as many of us do with maturity and age, with labeling, etc. and now can see more than then that this term, and others like them, are not really a necessary part of my speech -- I can find more mature ways of conversing without resorting to any slurs, no matter whether their intent is benign. IOW, there are just some comments that aren't really necessary and are rather vulgar no matter how you slice them -- (a lesson Bush still needs to learn.)

So, on that note, at the risk of posting something that makes yet another broad-sweeping statement, I would like to get other's opinions on the following study, because I think it touches upon what these kids may have been trying to express. In short, what is your and others opinion of this small study that was put forth which tries to analyze our foreign policy that lead us to war with Iraq?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer. I always try to avoid the confrontation that comes when discussing these matters, and I try to remain unbiased and fair in my remarks. I would like to know what others think of this study to better decide for my self whether it is biased, unbiased, accurate, etc.:

I recommend the PDF file in order to be able to view the graphs--
PDF:
http://www.opednews.com/toenjes_IraqPolicyWeb_withTables_July19.doc

HTML:
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:tCe3qbnj7CkJ:www.opednews.com/toenjes_IraqPolicyWeb_withTables_July19.doc+U.S.+Policy+Towards+Iraq:+Unraveling+the+Web&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

Here's an excerpt:

U.S. Policy Towards Iraq: Unraveling the Web
Laurence A. Toenjes


Executive Summary

When the United States began transporting troops to the Persian Gulf in the fall of 2002 it was evident that the war against Iraq was underway. This paper was begun in an attempt to answer the question: How did the war against Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda become the war to depose Saddam Hussein?

~snip~

The main contribution of this paper is the attempt to quantify the inter-linked nature of the 14 organizations by cross-tabulating individuals with memberships in two or more of them. Examples: Richard Perle was associated with 10 of the 14, Jeane Kirkpatrick with 7, James Woolsey with 6, John Bolton with 4. Altogether 223 links were found between the 14 groups, where a link is defined as the association of a single individual with two organizations. Although over 650 individuals associated with the 14 organizations included in the study were analyzed, just 9 individuals formed 121 of the inter-group links, accounting for over half of the total. This concentration of the inter-group linkages suggests that a small number of individuals could effectively influence and coordinate the foreign policy impact of these organizations.

Using a threshold of at least 3 members in common, a subgroup of 5 organizations was identified as forming a “clique”. A “clique” is defined as the largest subgroup wherein each is directly related to each of the others. In this case, this meant that each of the 10 pairs among the five shared at least three members. This clique consisted of The Project for the New American Century (PNAC), The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI), The Center for Security Policy (CSP), The Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee (DPB), and The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA).

Based upon mission statements and observed actions, the members of the clique appeared to play somewhat specialized and mutually supporting roles in the policy process. For example, PNAC was instrumental in preparing the over-all plan (Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century), while the presence of JINSA helped insure the interests of Israel as well as of the United States. The CLI was set up in the fall of 2002, reportedly at the behest of Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, to “engage in educational and advocacy efforts to mobilize US and international support for policies aimed at ending the aggression of Saddam Hussein and freeing the Iraqi people from tyranny.” That is, the purpose of the CLI was to sell the war abroad as well as to US citizens. The CSP prided itself in expertise and facilities to efficiently disseminate a flood of position papers and press releases to Congress, the Administration, and the public at large. The DPB provided a direct link into the bowels of the Pentagon, with its members having access to classified information and the opportunity to make private presentations to the upper echelons of the Department of Defense.


~snip~

Analysis of the 5-member clique

Attention in this section will be restricted largely to the five identified formally as comprising the largest clique within the total network. However, the other non-clique members linked to JINSA also will be discussed, as they, together with JINSA, bring into play an element not otherwise considered, but generally thought to be a significant part of the development of U.S. policy towards the Middle East in general, namely the Israeli connection. Descriptions of the organizations linked to JINSA will help in understanding the Israeli connection.

[cracksquirrel]

22. Are you saying we went to Iraq because of the Jewish lobby?

I'm not quite sure what that research is stating...

[Emit]

33. Well, no, I'm not saying that

But I recommend reading the entire study before coming to any conclusions.

The author, after analyzing various interconnectedness between think tanks, people and agencies, including Israeli lobbying groups, concludes:

Conclusion

In his book Made In Texas: George W. Bush and the Southern Takeover of American Politics Michael Lind summarizes the foreign policy of the second Bush administration in a single sentence:

“The three pillars of the Wolfowitz-Bush Doctrine were American unilateralism, pre-emptive war, and the alignment of American foreign policy with that of Israel’s right-wing leader Ariel Sharon.”

All three of these elements are clearly contained in, in fact are central to, the interconnected web of relationships among the various organizations shown in Figure 1 above. What Lind terms “the Wolfowitz-Bush Doctrine” is explicitly spelled out in the PNAC publication Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century, and later substantially incorporated into the Bush administration’s “National Security Strategy” published in the fall of 2002. The CLI was established in the fall of 2002 for the express purpose of helping to sell the pre-emptive war against Iraq at a time when U.S. public opinion for unilateral action was flagging.

It seems that he does examine the Jewish Lobby's influence, but makes no broad sweeping statements in return. Instead, he seems to conclude that Bush's foreign policy is aligned with the hawkish Likud party's policy. His discussion in his conclusion is less about the alignment of all these groups and people, but more about whether Bush's foreign policy is beneficial for the US or is in the US's best interests. He then discusses who, exactly, is benefiting from such policy, and makes no mention of Israel, Jews or AIPAC, for example:

But that same knowledge and understanding have not tempered the feeling that the foreign policies of the Bush Administration are leading the U.S. in a direction that is inimical to many of the ideals which have made Americans proud of their country in the past.

Although the answer to the question “Why are we following this path?” goes beyond the original scope of this paper, a hypothesis does emerge. The hypothesis is that all of the operative incentives are in the wrong direction. These incentives include the following: (a) the political advantages of military actions that appeal to feelings of patriotism; (b) the political advantages of tax decreases for the wealthy, making their future campaign contributions to the party in power more feasible; (c) the economic advantages to major sectors of the economy which benefit from military expansion, from the replacement of expensive high-tech munitions and from the rebuilding of Iraq’s infrastructure; (d) the financial advantages to companies and executives in the energy industry, many of whom have close ties to the Administration and the Pentagon, of greater U.S. control over world oil supplies; and (e) the informational advantages to the military to be able to test in combat new high-tech weaponry, communications systems, and military strategies and doctrines.

It is difficult to come up with a comparable list of incentives that work against these policies. The distinguishing characteristic of the incentives just listed, which tend to support the Administration’s policies, is that they have well-defined beneficiaries—President Bush, military firms, the wealthy minority.

[cracksquirrel]

34. There we go

Thanks for the exerpts. Funny how Sharon's Likudnic column fell away from the Bush doctrine and started unilateral disengagement... now the guy's a vegetable.

[adwon]

39. The song

"Instant Club Hit" by The Dead Milkmen.

[Emit]

46. Yes, it was! Thank you for pointing that out. n/t

[madeline_con]

23. "Granted I don't look very Jewish..."

How, exactly, does Jewish look? Are you implying it's a race?

Comments like that only add to the problems presented to the "linguistic obfuscators" who try to navigate the semantics and avoid offending people by saying anything that might be construed as anti-Semitism while criticizing the Israeli government's actions.

While I can't speak for everyone, many of us who don't support Israel do not hate Jews. All whales are mammals. All mammals are not whales.

[cracksquirrel]

24. *sigh*

Come on, I think everyone has some pretty clear ideas of what constitutes the stereotypical "Jewish" look. I'm sorry I didn't clarify and and three paragraphs of explanations on racial/ethnic issues of "Jewishness" and appearance, but I felt that was not necessary. But seriously, do I have to list all the things that make for the stereotypical "Jew" appearance? Really? Cause' I really don't want to. We all know such stereotypes are wrong and harmful, but these ideas DO exist.
Also, the "linguistic obfuscators" comment was aimed at those who inevitably pop into discussions of anti-semetism with that ever-so-helpful tidbit: "well, technically Semites are all people from this certain region, therefore anti-semitism =\= anti-jew".
And thank you for the lesson in elementary logic. Here I was thinking whales were actually amphibians too damn lazy to get their fat butts up on land...

[madeline_con]

27. "... the stereotypical "Jew" appearance ..."

Is also a stereotypical "Muslim" appearance, for the most part. We both know there are exceptions, though. Arabs, which make up a large part of the world's Muslim population, are also a Semitic group and yada yada yada...

My point was that tiptoeing around on eggshells does nothing to promote honest communication where a very serious problem that has global implications is concerned.

I believe part of the problem with M.E. peace negotiations is the fact that we can't get the language straight. :)

[cracksquirrel]

30. Yeah I know

If this was all some sort of elaborate, sick joke it might make for a mildly funny / uncomfortable HBO sitcom. But it's not.
As far as getting the language straight... it's very hard to carry on a discussion with someone who has fundamentally different definitions of the vocabulary you are using to present your viewpoints: zionist, terrorist, occupation, security... all of those words have different definitions and examples depending on who you talk to.
As an analogy, just try talking about "liberty", "freedom", or "terrorism", with a neoconservative or fundamentalist Christian. You can probably both agree that something is good or bad, but its fundamental meaning and application to the world around us will be mind-bogglingly out of whack.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. Actually, that's not entirely true. Jewish is a religion, but it is also a

cultural identity.

I too, come from a partially Jewish family. I know damn well that I don't "look Jewish" and I know what looking Jewish means. Accepting that there is a cultural and racial component to Jewishness is accepting reality- and after all, I don't self-identify as "Jewish" in terms of religious belief (I don't believe in anything remotely resembling the Western, Monotheistic "God", for starters) but in Hitler's Germany, with one Jewish grandparent, none of that would have mattered.

And I'm critical of the government of Israel, too- but I also support their right to exist. I think while a distinction can and should be made between people who are anti-Semitic and people who are merely criticizing the actions of the Israeli government, a distinction also should be made between the people who are specifically upset with certain parts of Israel's behavior, and the people who are convinced that Israel as a nation should not ever have existed in the first place, and should be eliminated, dismantled, what-have-you. (This is not just the stated goals of Hamas and Hezbollah, I have seen this latter viewpoint expressed repeatedly on DU in recent days) It's my experience that people acting from this second point of view couch their arguments in the rhetoric of the first, but in reality, there is nothing Israel could do, short of "just going away" that would be sufficient for these folks to bring "peace".

[madeline_con]

49. Culture and ethnicity can overlap, and neither is race...

There are a lot of ehtnic groups that share the American culture, for example. A lot of Americans also have a subculture they belong to as far as race, nationality if they weren't born here, religion, and so on.

Culture is a learned set of beliefs on everything from whether or not to pray to how often to wash your hair.

Ethnicity is involuntary, you're born with it. It's like a tribe or clan. There can be a bunch of tribes in the same culture, there can be different cultures of the same race, different races of the same culture, etc.

I think that's where the whole thing starts to break down. It's hard to know how to express thoughts about issues like this.

[bleedingheart]

29. There is far more anti-semitism in the US...it is just hidden

here in Western PA, I have heard statements that would curl your toes...

My family came from Eastern Europe where anti-semitism was the norm...the Jews were scapegoated for a host of things...from plague to bad crops..
The old people in my family are still very distrustful of anything having to do with Jews...even though some of my cousins have married Jews...(some were cut off for doing so...)

Just when I thought the old stereotypes would die...you see it all erupt again...it is all very sad.

[cracksquirrel]

31. yes

This was in the upright, educated, and enlightened SF Bay Area. Just goes to show that education does help erode bigotry, but sometimes it's just not enough.

[AngryAmish]

38. My girlfriend's mother

Very liberal (she refuses to visit her son who lives in South Dakota because of the anti-abortion law). Highly educated (Masters in nursing).

Anyway my girlfriend mentioned she was dating me (a Catholic). Her mom sighed in disappointment and then said "At least he is not a Jew."

[cracksquirrel]

43. Ugh

Reminds me of the Mr. Kreisote scene in Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life". Mr. Kreisote just exploded after eating "zee waifehr theen" mint, and the mop lady is cleaning up the Kreisote bits while the waiter has a cigarette and contemplates life. When the mop lady is asked her impression, she says (paraphrasing): "You know, I've had some awful jobs in my life (as scoops chunks of Mr. Kreisote into a bucket), but at least I've never worked for a JEW!" The waiter is shocked, and dumps the bucket of Kreisote chunks on the mop lady's head, and begins apologizing profusely to the camera...
Sometimes when faced with life's absurdities, all you can do is laugh...

[genieroze]

42. The Christian Reich controls congress.

Are all Jews liberals, ahem ...Lieberman? Not all Jews are liberals and not all Christians are neonuts.

[cracksquirrel]

44. And there you have it

However, the overwhelming majority of Jews are progressives/Democrats. I was just listening to a thing on NPR where the two LA Times journalists who wrote "One Party Country" were talking about how the Republicans have gone for niche markets in trying to get votes. They know they will never get all the Jews or all the blacks, so they go for Orthodox Jews (Lieberman) or black churches. Little bits here and there add up, like in Ohio where the 5 or 6% gain in black votes for Bush tipped the scales.
(yes yes I know, the election was rigged, but going on whatever statistics we have...)

[Jacobin]

47. Xtian Fundies are high behind Israel

They are in this box together, partners of convenience.

[cracksquirrel]

48. Strange bedfellows...

Hey, at least the Jews get the last laugh when Jesus doesn't show up riding a pony in the near future!

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fujiyama]

51. It's weird and disturbing

You'll hear people ranting about "A-Rab" terrorists one minute and the "Jooooos" the next.

Hatred is like wildfire. It doesn't stay applied to one group. The neocons thought they could ferment it just toward Arabs and Muslims - but it doesn't work that way.

Notice there has been an increase in hate crimes toward Arabs and Jews over the last few years...

[cracksquirrel]

53. Indeed

Hell, I couldn't IMAGINE what it must be like to be a Muslim in certain parts of this country right now. Not to mention in an airport! Hell, my friend Mahmoud (now visiting family in Jordan) was on his way to getting a piloting license before 9/11! Now he's lucky if they let him on the plane... Then of course all the day-to-day stuff... *sigh* Why can't we ditch this whole relgion/creed/sectarian schtick and like... worship the sun or something.