lol..I think a DUer made the Kennedy/Laura Bush murderer statement.

[w8liftinglady]

on the washington journal. this morning...

[acmavm]

1. What statement? Sounds interesting. n/t

[mrcheerful]

4. Uncle Ted had an accident someone died no big deal

because Lura had an accident too and someone died. Why is it you hear about Teds yet not one word about Lauras? They both were drunk at the time of the accident. Of course when Ted had his accident drunk driving wasnt a capital offense, states had just started making laws to stop drinking and driving. I remember those days cause I had an uncle that refused to go to any state that didn't allow him to drink a beer while driving down the street.

[acmavm]

6. Oh God, that's perfect. What a hoot. Someone actually

brought up Laura's dead boyfriend? Oh man, KUDOS to whoever did it. You're my hero for the day.

[Toots]

15. Drunk driving is not a Capital Offense

It is still only a misdemeanor unless a person has been convicted of more than one and then it is only a felony and not a Capital Offense. A Capital Offense is one where the death penalty or life in prison is possible.

[mrcheerful]

23. I was being sarcastic by calling it a capital offense

mainly because the rw tries to make it sound like Teddy did something equal to a capital offense. He got drunk got lost and drove off a bridge and the laws at the time didn't even make it a misdemeanor unless another car was involved. I had to relatives that had accidents while drunk driving during the same time period they got jailed over night then were released the next morning. Their insurance was sued and that was about all that happened. If they hadn't of been insured then they would have been sued. Yes both had killed someone in the accidents.

[Strawman]

19. I've never seen any evidence that Pickles was drunk

Not saying that it doesn't exist, but I've never seen it. If you have a link, I'd be curious to read it.

Is there such evidence? If not, I don't think that's a fair charge.

[Silverhair]

24. There is no evidence of that.

It is actually unlikely as she was going from her home to a party.

[meegbear]

2. Sounds like a hoot and a holler ...

think you can tell us what they said?

[Skidmore]

3. I heard that too.

[ThomWV]

5. In Short

In short, Ted picked up a young lady and had an accident in which she died while he and she where headed to goodness only knows where for goodness only knows what. He drove off a bridge and she drown. He was much less than forthcoming about the terrible incident.

Laura, early one evening just before dark, T-Boned a car in which a young man was driving alone. It was at an intersection of a driveway (from which Laura was exiting) and a country road on which the young man was driving. A terrible accident. Or was it? As it turns out the boy who died was Laura's internded, or at least he had been until Laura mentioned she was heavy with child. Apparently he told her to take a hike. Big mistake with a girl like Laura. He's gone, we never hear another word about Laura being heavy with child, and that's the end of that.

[diddlysquat]

7. I didn't know the part about her being pregnant.

Interesting.

[CTyankee]

9. That's weird. Didn't she and * have to have assisted conception

which is how she got twins?

[papau]

11. Laura police report says she ran a stop sign - where does driveway

info come from?

heavy with child is not in anything I had heard (the Bush aborted bastard was with another 15 year old when Bush was in his 20's and she married FBI/CIA (?) agent and says she still loves Bush).

Texas law violation of not giving Laura breath test is never discussed.

Indeed what was on Bush's old license - like drug violations - that he had removed as Governor?

[Horse with no Name]

20. Both Laura and GWB were issued new Texas drivers licenses

and their old ones expunged.
IIRC, their new ones are TXDL#00000001 and hers is TXDL#00000002.

[Silverhair]

25. Bullshit.

It was an intersection of country roads, no driveway involved. Laura ran a stop sign, at night. There was no way at all that she could have even known who was in the other car, because at night in the country all you see are the dots of the lights of the car.

Neither was she PG. You have made up your version of the story and if is greatly different from the facts.

Both Ted's and Laura's accidents were exactly that - ACCIDENTS.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomWV]

10. And This Is The Right Wing Version

You see, there really are two sides to every story.

[papau]

12. wixomblues' is in the police report - except for the "dark country road"

:-)

[wixomblues]

14. This is not a right or left issue.

If you think it is, you have lost grip with reality. These are all facts:

Laura was in the car with a friend. the person that she killed was being followed by his father. She ran a stop sign, after dusk, on a rural road. He was killed, his father saw the entire accident. Laura was never charged with a crime. She was 17.

The fact that she wasn't charged with mansluaghter doesn't surprise me, howeve, I would presume that there was some sort of penalty for this negligent homocide.

Now Ted, a sitting Senator, was driving his subordinate home, and careened off a bridge. He claims he tried to rescue her several times, went home, and fell asleep, calling police in the morning. These facts are his own account. He also plead guily to leaving the scene of an accident, a fairly non-substantial charge considering that accident resulted in the death of someone. It's the failure to report the crime that make's it so egregious. Accidents do happen, but come on.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. Is that you agent Mike?

This dead boy thing with Pickles is probably the very cause of Gawd giving two wayward drunken brats to Pickles for children, as a token of his extreme. Gawd sits around and thinks of shit like that to do to folks he's pissed at, all the time. If you don't believe me ask Jerry and Pat. Sometimes I think that Gawd has entirely too much spare time on his hands.

[wixomblues]

17. Yes. Absolutely.

[Tsiyu]

18. ROFL

:rofl:

[Hubert Flottz]

21. Agent Mike is a democrat!

If he'd been a republican, he would have lied about who, or what, he was!

[ProfessorGAC]

22. Yeah. Come On!

It was nearly 40 years ago, and you can find this much moral outrage over an accident? (You said it was an accident.) So, an accident is morally indefensible, because he was too drunk to have done every single thing right. That doesn't excuse him running. But, you're around the bend on this one.

It's ok for Laura to have an accident that killed someone, but you still have moral outrage over another accident that killed someone. There is an apparent disconnect in logic there.
The Professor

[mrcheerful]

26. Not to mention that drunk driving laws were very different when Ted had

his accident and Lura had hers. Remember 40 years ago they had just gotten started on drinking laws, about the only laws against drinking was the over 21 law. People seem to forget that there wasn't no 911 back then and finding a phone (again no cell phones either ) to call police was hard to do in the back areas of the states. Not all people had phones in their homes at that time either, especially in isolated areas. Also if Ted had been in a black out stage, he wouldn't have remembered much about what happened.

[wixomblues]

28. I have moral outrage over the comparison.

And yeah, I do find it inexcusable that a Senator who was driving drunk, presumably, would cause the death of someone else, and not report the accident. I guess I like to hold our elected officials to standards, no matter what the party background. I don't find it comparable to the circumstances around Pickles, who was an inexperienced teenage driver who made a reckless mistake.

And why is it if you dare to disagree with something like this, few go into the substance of the disagreement? There's thirty thousand people on hear, are we all supposed to have the same view? I feel a lot of posters are creating a culture of fear, or are unwilling to defend or even examine the assertions that they make.

And in case I didn't address your point comply professor, any accident, traffic or otherwise, that kills someone is tragic, and not worthy of moral outrage per se. In fact, I think outrage would suffice, I don't know why it has to be qualified with "moral". However, you being a reasonable and presumably learned chap, would probably agree that the degree of culpability and the recklessness of the conduct can vary from circumstance to circumstance. And Pickles was at fault, and was driving in an irresponsible manner. I don't really find that upsetting now, it seems like one of the many examples of why teenagers shouldn't drive, and the many bad driving escapades of my youth. Thankfully, no one was killed. There by the grace of Gawd go I or something similar.

And yes, it does annoy me that Ted Kennedy did what he did. I think less of him. And not just because of that, but his general philandering and bloviating throughout the years. He's fairly ineffectual, and I feel like we keep him around out of sentimental value. Which is fine, I guess. I live in a different state, I have no control over him and his electability. But I'm not going to feel bad or "disloyal", for not defending his actions, and drawing distinctions between them and those of someone who happens to be married to a person I don't respect, like, or ever consider voting for.

[ProfessorGAC]

30. Your Rant Is More Misplace Anger

I asked a question. You got angry that i dared to ask the question. Then you want to know why you're being taken to task for daring to broach the subject? Seems a little disingenuous.

I don't care if you like Kennedy or not. He's not my senator either, (Durbin and Obama are), and i didn't vote for him. But, the level of outrage you express over ancient history, while being "sickened" by the other posters who save their venom for Silverspoon's wife, is selective to the point of absurdity.
The Professor

[wixomblues]

34. Do I seem angry? Not my intent Professor.

And I liked your question and answered it. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, or asking me questions. I welcome it. I am a little lost at your continuing distinction in terms of time, between kennedy and Laura. Both happened forty some years ago, and I didn't bring this issue up. I fail to understand why anyone would attack someone for something like Laura did, or use her action to diminish what Kennedy did. It sickens me because it's intellectually dishonest, and we should be better then that. Well, maybe that's unfair, we're really no better then anyone else. It's fun to think that we are. But blind partisan thinking annoys me. Anyone that tries to make a comparison or an equivocation between Kennedy and Pickles is not engaging in a worthwhile debate, and not worth my time.

[papau]

27. State law on death and auto accidents was alcohol check - and it was not

done - or do I have something incorrect here?
FROM SNOPES:

..Midland, Texas..17-year-old Laura Welch had run a stop sign..on a clear night shortly after 8 p.m. on 6 November 1963 when she entered an intersection without heeding the stop sign and there collided with the Corvair sedan driven by 17-year-old Michael Douglas. Also in the car with Laura Welch was a passenger, 17-year-old Judy Dykes.

How fast Miss Welch might have been driving is open to question. That part of the police report is illegible, although two biographies of the First Lady refer to her as having been going 50 mph at the time of the collision. The speed limit on that portion of road was 55 mph. According to the police report neither driver had been drinking, but no tests were performed. No charges were filed as a result of the accident.

...The accident is difficult to understand it that it took place on a clear night on dry pavement at a crossroads described as "the middle of nowhere," where the view was unobstructed and the stop sign that faced Laura Welch was clearly visible. (The intersection was a two-way, not a four-way, stop.) Yet looking to only weather and road conditions to explain what happened is to miss the obvious: there were two teen girls in the car, girls who were on their way to a party and thus who likely would have been bubbling over with chatter about who would be there. Laura Welch, the driver, had turned 17 only two days earlier. She and her passenger were still of an age when they could all too easily shut out everything going on around them, even the approach of another car and the recognition of a stop sign.

...Then there are the circumstances of the crash. It was 8 pm on a November night in Texas on roads far removed from any town, so it was dark. With no stop sign facing him, the doomed young man would have had no reason to slow his vehicle even if he had seen another car approaching the intersection. He therefore would have been travelling at least 50 mph. Laura Welch ran the stop sign facing her, so there is reason to assume she too was going approximately 50 mph, the speed she would have been doing if she'd had the right of way.

[Silverhair]

33. Laura and her passenger were taken to a hospital.

That is probably the reason why she was not given a test on the scene by the officer. Both she and her passenger had minor injuries.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[radio4progressives]

29. You Find Ted's actions Morally Repugnant?

How about this. Ted Kennedy lost two of his brothers to the murdering thugs who are in power right now.

Did it ever occur to you don't know what really happened? You have no way of really knowing whether or not the same operators intent in snuffing out the Kennedys, aren't the same thugs that assasinated his brothers.


As far as I'm concerned, we don't know what really happened and if Ted Kennedy should be blamed. But either way, i frankly don't give a damn.

If he was guilty of wrong doing, he's paid a price that you can't even imagine. and he's been fighting hard for justice and equality and in the interest of the disenfranchised for all these decades and for that i HONOR him.

[wixomblues]

35. Bush and Co killed his brothers?

Interesting. And I'm sure you would give a damn if it was someone not in the party.

[Obamarama]

31. Gee...you're a little STRONG in your skewering of Kennedy for a DUer....

Might be a good idea to tone it down just a bit. I mean, you wouldn't want anyone thinking you are really a member of some OTHER politically based online community. I'm just sayin.....

[wixomblues]

36. I'll say what I believe.

I post here because I tend to agree with most things Democratic, not all. And I don't have to love everyone in the party. I don't like or support the DNC, and I don't support Lieberman, and I don't respect or like Kennedy. If that gets me banned, so be it.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.