Is it only a "left fringe" of the Party that does not support Israel?

[kentuck]

Or does the majority of the Party disagree with Israel in their war against Hezbollah? How will this affect the election in November? Do you think this will drive many Jewish voters into the arms of the Republican Party?

[robcon]

1. I think you're right.

Only the far left does not support Israel, IMO. Israel is an admirable, just democratic nation in a sea of despotism in the Middle East.

[bryant69]

4. I don't think that's the standard view either

I also don't think we might make a distinction between criticizing Israel and not supporting it.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[kentuck]

5. Good point...

You should be able to criticize Israel and still support her...

[Protagoras]

Does support have to take one specific form?

Or is it possible to support Israel in ways that discourages, limits, or even prohibits further bloodshed?

[kentuck]

7. Another excellent point.

DU is on top of the game today, I think. :)

[jsamuel]

16. That has been my point many times.

I am criticizing the policy. Yet people act like I am not supporting Israel.

Suicide Anti-Terrorism

[bryant69]

20. The partisans at either end are very frusterating

I don't know what's so hard about "The Palestinians have a legimiate beef, but are acting badly. The Israelies have a legitimate beef, but are acting badly."

[alarimer]

30. Killing civilians is not admirable.

We need to stop supporting this with our tax dollars.

[Protagoras]

2. Ever seen the Gaza episode of the West Wing?

Sure makes it easy to talk about support etc when it's all black and white. Only problem with most wars, especially those in the ME, is they are seldom that simple, clear, or good vs evil.

Used to think it was a "normal" belief to think that indiscriminate killing was bad, collateral damage was bad, and *key here* unintended consequences like oh...massive regional conflict? were really bad.

Never thought someone had to be fringe to believe those things. Doesn't mean that they don't support Israel in 100 ways..but maybe this isn't the right way or the right time for another invasion in the ME.

Just a thought. If thought makes me fringe then hmmmm

[bloom]

3. The DLC would certainly like to make it seem so.

At least that is what I have seen in their writings in the past. Trying to make the anti-Iraq war crowd seem like the "fringe" - even when we are the majority.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's not basically the same - now. The same people who hate what BushCo is doing to Iraq probably also hate what is happening in Lebanon.

I think a lot of people are on to them.

[Cocoa]

6. I think the vast majority don't have a dog in the fight

on both sides.

I think the politics is driven by the small minority that do have a dog in the fight. And I think it's more about donors than about voters. And I think the anti-Israel side is outmatched on that score.

[durrrty libby]

23. It's not that I don't care. It's that I am sick to death of all

ME violence, destruction, death and waste of resources.

My sympathy level is frankly shot.

Killing over religious beliefs is so stupid and illogical

Leaders of the world need to get together and make them all stop

This admin has pissed away billions in Iraq and they throw billions at Israel.

It is all wrong

[Skip Intro]

8. Its this that many don't support

"Massive Explosions Going On in Beirut"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1725186

Going off in residential neighborhoods. People being blown to bits as we type.


Support for Israel's security and right to exist does not equal support for indiscriminate mass murder.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

9. Depends on what you mean by "does not support Israel."

If it means "disapproves their current action against Lebanon," you bet your ass it's not just a "fringe."

[Strawman]

10. How would Jewish voters be driven to the Republican party over this?

When the Senate passed a resolution supporting Israel by voice vote and the House passed a similar resolution with only 8 nays.

[karynnj]

27. Why would any over this voice vote or 5 congressional nos

There are people who have been speaking of how Bush'd PNAC actions are winning over Jews. the election results do not back this up. Al Gore, with the first Jewish VP, got 79% of the Jewish vote. Kerry got 77%. Some of that had to attributable to the considerable excitement among Jews about Lieberman.

[Strawman]

35. there is some criticism of Israel among the Democratic grassroots

But it is latent and nobody votes for or against the grassroots, so I wouldn't expect any defections among Jewish voters over this. I would like to see some of that latent opinion among grassroots Dems percolate upward to our elected representatives, but that is unlikely. I suspect there's probably more diversity of opinion on the Israeli military action in Lebanon among Jewish voters on DU than there is among Democrats in Congress regardless of their ethnicity.

Also, to some extent the latent criticism of Israel's actions cuts across partisan and ideological cleavages. There are Arab-American Republicans and other conservatives who are critical of Israel. In Metro Detroit we have a sizeable Arab American population. I work with some Arab-Americans who are Republicans and they are critical of Israel's actions and our policy, but I don't forsee them switching parties over this issue either.

[Karmadillo]

11. Probably the same ol' crazy "left fringe" that opposed the war in Iraq.

They're obviously idiots. They didn't believe in WMDs. They didn't believe in the wisdom of the neocons. Obviously the facts have proven them clueless. Why can't they just line up behind those who know better and embrace the War on Terror? Losers.

[Armstead]

12. See this thread....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1716109&mesg_id=1716109

The thread died an untimely death, but it touches on my view about that.

[cali]

13. Most Americans

don't have a clue, and still aren't following the debacle in Lebanon closely. And that means most democrats, too.

[tomp]

14. i prefer to think of it as the sane wing. nt

[nancyr]

19. If this makes me a leftist.....

If loathing the mindless slaughter of innocent people makes me a leftist, then I am proud to say I am one. How anyone could possibly be In FAVOR of what is currently happening in Lebanon is beyond my comprehension.
I am neither pro or anti Israel...I am anti-slaughter.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. The Civil Rights movement "drove" many southerners to the Republicans.

And, many in the Civil Rights movement, including Martin Luther King, were labeled "Communists". As, indeed, some were Communiists.

[JHB]

17. The question relies on a false framework

Whether one "disagree(s) with Israel in their (current) war against Hezbollah" does not equate to whether one "support(s) Israel".

In fact, I would think most who disapprove of the tactics used in the past few weeks do so because they support Israel and see the present action as (at the very least) short-sighted.

[MadHound]

18. From my own personal sampling,

It isn't just the left, center or right that is condemning Israeli actions. It is a broad political spectrum that even takes in many Republicans. Frankly I think that the minority opinion on this is made up of the neocons, the politicians(especially those who've got an election this fall) and those of the Jewish faith.

[cali]

21. Done a study

of that, have you? Do you have any evidence to back that up, that the minoriy opinion is the one you claim it is? I still hold that most Americans don't know much about the issue, and don't care much either.

[MadHound]

25. Knock off the faux hostility friend

You already know the answer to your question, because I already told you the answer, so knock it off. However I do live in Missouri, a pretty conservative place, so I think my own sampling does have some merit, even if anecdotal.

Geez, people get up on their high horse for no fucking good reason:eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Withouht Getting Into This Debate Arguiung By Anecdote Is Worthless

The people I have met want Israel to blow Hezbollah to smithereens.

I don't draw any inferences from their rantings.

[MadHound]

34. Geez Louise, I wasn't trying to argue any fucking thing OK

I was simply trying to present of snapshot of this situation from my goddamn perspective, and give out the information I personally have seen. Jesus H. Christ on a goddamn pogo stick, it is getting so as that one can't present anything around here anymore without having it sourced six ways to Sunday. Sheesh!

[Skidmore]

22. "Left fringe?" What kind of a statement is that?

There is a part of this party that is just as bad as Republicans with trying to demonize progressives with labels. The "left fringe" is exactly what will save the Democratic Party from becoming the other white meat, which some in the party seem hellbent on being.

Now, as to the topic. I know Dems who are moderate who don't support this mess over there. There are Republicans that don't support this mess over there, too. Not supporting this mess over there does not automatically translate in to not supporting Israel, or its unspoken implication--support Hezbollah. People are getting tired of war and violence as foreign policy. They are weary tired of killing as a solution.

[npincus]

24. Hell, no!

I'm Jewish, I support Israel, I don't like what they have done to Lebanon. I'd rather burn down my house than vote for B*sh or ANY Republican, EVER.

That said, the Orthodox and ultra Orthodox segments of Jewish society in America supported B*sh in greater numbers than the rest of the religious spectrum. He doesn't need to win the votes he already has.

The rest of the spectrum, largely Democratic and progressive, are not ONE-ISSUE voters. We are, as a whole, an educated bunch who can process the tidbits of information we can glean from our brain-dead media, and draw our own conclusions regarding what is best for the future of our country. Healthcare, Public Education, Science, Global warming and FURY at the Iraq mess are issues that the GOP has failed to address and issues that motivate moderates and progressives.

Do not fear. The die is cast.

[Renew Deal]

26. I have been wondering the same thing.

Democrats have gotten great support from Jews. I don't know why so many people here are so hateful. Especially of someone so strongly on our side.

[npincus]

36. read post above

:)

Fear not, friend.

[RethugAssKicker]

28. MLK was hated and despised by a large majority of Americans..

I could give a rats ass what the majority of Americans think !

I have been fighting the tyranny of "Majorities" all my life !

[EFerrari]

32. I was thinking this morning that both Dr. King and Gandhi

changed two huge countries forever and they didn't have a bomb to their name.

:)

[oberliner]

29. Will this issue drive some left-leaning Dems to vote Green?

I doubt that this will drive many Jewish voters into the arms of the Republican Party.

The reasons for why so many Republicans are so staunchly pro-Israel are very disturbing to most Jewish voters. The fundamentalist Christians back Israel because it is part of a vision of the end of the world which concludes with Jews either converting to Christianity or going to hell.

I would, however, ask this question:

Do you think that this issue will drive some voters who do not agree with the Democratic Party's stance on Israel to vote for a third party like the Greens who have come out strongly condemning Israel's military action?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. I'm a Democrat who will be voting very selectively in '06 and '08.

I'll be voting anti-war, and checking, very carefully, the voting records of all the candidates, from all parties and casting my votes accordingly.