An issue of the 1st Amendment and my stupid hillbilly A$$hole neighbor.

[KyndCulture]

Ok, I've been sitting here all morning working on some of my websites.

bout 1:30 I get this knock on my door.... It's the bitch neighbor from down the street that has the bush stickers on her ugly ass truck.


I put a new sign in my yard yesterday, it's very close to the house in the flower bed, about 30 feet from the street.

It says this it's a red sign with black letters on a piece of posterboard.




This clovenhoofed bitch told me it offends her and I "need to remove that from this neighborhood".

When I scraped my jaw off the floor, I told her, that her neon palm tree and flamingo offend me but I would never ask her to take them down.

She says, that sign detracts from our "property values"..... I told her when she pays the rent on this cottage and lot I'll take the sign down.

She huffed and puffed some more and I wasn't really listening... she started to walk away and I shouted at her, to take her fat ass to the library and check out a book about the US Constitution because obviously YOU'VE NEVER READ the first amendment.



So my question is, we have no homeowners association or anything like that, is there any reason I can't have a sign like that against my front window?


:wow: :nuke: :grr:

[SteppingRazor]

1. Without any homeowner's association or signed covenants...

you can put up anything that meets "community standards of decency." Since that sign is not at all pornographic, you should be fine.

[SammyBlue]

101. Personally, I'd take all HOA's to court

When those neighbor nazi fucks pay the mortgage, bills, homeowner's insurance, upkeep and assorted bills of the house, then they have the right to tell me how and what do to on my property.

HOA's were a nasty idea back in the 1940s and 1950s when they were used to keep blacks and minorities out of white areas. Now, they are just out-dated bullshit!

My constitutional rights over ride your CCRs, fucktards. And if you don't like it, tough shit!

[KyndCulture]

103. AMEN to that.

And this nazi bitch has started something that she can't win.


I'm informed, I'm liberal, anti war, pro peace and REALLLLLLY GODDAMNED PISSED OFF.

to quote the chimp "bring it on"

[SheilaT]

2. There may be some kind of local ordinances

governing signs. It depends on where you live. You might want to call your local city hall and find out what, if any, rules or laws there are. To know is to be powerful.

[Tesha]

24. Even if there's an ordinance...

Even if there's an ordinance that *CLAIMS* to regulate
the signs you can put up, political speech is given
pretty wide latitude and most of those ordinances are
ruled invalid when challenged.

If your sign isn't a giant neon-bedecked billboard that
keeps everyone awake at nights with its lighting, you're
probably (ultimately) on safe ground. If given grief,
contact your local ACLU affiliate immediately.

Tesha

[KyndCulture]

26. it's a small sign.

It's red and about half a sheet of posterboard with black stenciled letters.

It's about 20 inches tall.

That's IT.

[lonestarnot]

74. Put up one like this

teehee hee :evilgrin:

[texpatriot2004]

85. Great sign. Well said. ;-) nm

[Capn Sunshine]

111. Or this. It's got a flag and everything.

[AngryAmish]

3. First Amendment only applies to the government

Your neighbor did not violate it.

[Tom Joad]

15. She was within her rights to say she was offended by it. That's her

free speech. She has no right to make you take down the sign.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. Wharrrrrr? I don't think that was her point.

First Amendment protects freedom of speech. i.e. the sign.

[don954]

4. with no HOA

you can have all the signs you want unless they violate city size regs
with a hoa you are entitled to a political sign of "reasonable" size no matter what they say

I am not a lawyer, i just read too much. :)

[tbyg52]

92. Political signs (of reasonable size) are protected...

...pretty much no matter what, as far as I can make out. I had occasion to look into our deed restrictions recently (we had an auto impound lot open in our rural subdivision, but we have been promised it will be removed very soon), and was concerned that they said "no signs." However, apparently case law has invalidated any such restriction of political signs.

Edited for typo, and to add "GREAT SIGN!"

[ulysses]

5. "clovenhoofed bitch"?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm going to have to remember that. :D

I'd put up a few extra of those signs.

[Master Mahon]

21. Bwahahahhah

That was a good one!

It'll fit as an additional adjective for the 'Coltergeist' as well :+

[Broken_Hero]

6. I see no issue with it

but if she complains to your landlord(assuming you have one), than its up to your landlord to do something about it.

[sallyseven]

7. I would get 5 more if I were you.

[arcane1]

18. amen to that!!!

:toast:

[unblock]

of course you have the right to put up the sign

then again, she also has the right to request that you take it down.

and you have the right to say no.


ain't freedom great?

[WinkyDink]

56. Where I live (PA.), the complaining neighbor can actually be charged with

trespassing.
Our law recognizes 2---count-em, 2---types of legal passage:
1. By invitation;
2. By implicit invitation through the passer's job (e.g., postal worker).

[KyndCulture]

8. There are republican senate signs all over the damn place.

there is no ordinance here about signs, except for they must be between the sidewalk and your house, not on the easement.

[Cyrano]

9. Now you've done it. Yer gonna' end up in Gitmo when she reports you.

[Master Mahon]

10. There may be local ordinances

about it's size, location, distance from street, obscenity, etc..
After all, Preemptive war IS an obscenity!!

[Poll_Blind]

11. Remind her that Wars of Agression are war crimes and since...

...we are signatories to the Geneva Convention(s) that those treaties ARE our Constitution and why does she hate The Constitution so much anyway?

Ah hell, nah, she's not going to get that. Maybe ask her why your uncle had to die on a beach in Normandy so you COULDN'T have free speech?

Or, and this is tempting but unhelpful, tell her to get her fat ass off your property. Nomatter how skinny she is, I guarantee she'll be back in her house with her shirt pulled up and pinching her midriff within 5 minutes.

PB

[Poll_Blind]

13. Oh, on second read-thru you did exercise the "fat ass" option. Good on ya!

8^)

PB

[Tom Joad]

12. There was a time when simple country folk fought for *their* rights,

and not for the interests of the big, fat rich boys who profit from war. Hope we can change things again. Just talkin to Jim Casy about that the other night,while we were plannin' how we were goin to help get people to participate in the Rally in DC and San Francisco against the war on Lebanon August 12th.

[itzamirakul]

14. Yes, there is a reason that you cannot have a sign like that...

It is intimidation. You can't have that sign only if the fat heinie lady wins in her effort to huff and puff her way into making you feel as though you are alone in your beliefs and succeeds in intimidating you.

You just might find that there are others in the neighborhood who feel as you do about preemtive war.

In the meantime, fcuk her and the horse she rode in on.

[Fuzz]

16. Since when is there a right not to be offended?

[sgxnk]

25. bingo

tell that to the anti-free speech people on the thread where the guy put up the sign referring to his neighbor as a "retard"

they are screaming "hate speech" (as if that's a crime), and that it's CLEARLY not a first amendment issue

lol

[gratuitous]

17. You're almost certainly in the clear

Free advice (and worth every penny): Just because someone else is acting like a fool, doesn't mean you have to meet them on their turf. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Instead, kill 'em with kindness. "Why, thank you very much for your concerns about my sign. As someone who loves America as much as I'm sure you do, you're surely familiar with the First Amendment, and the rights of all citizens to be able to speak their minds. I'm glad you felt free enough to speak yours." Followed by the sound of the door closing in her face.

[KyndCulture]

20. If she had been nice and not spitting in my face with her voice raised.

I might have killed her with kindness.... but she was screaming at me about her fucking property values.


I've had 2 really bad days and she picked the wrong day to mess with me in my front yard.

[michaelpush]

27. Why is she

selling her house? You hope!:-)

[gratuitous]

31. Ah, I missed that

I didn't realize that she'd come to your door in a frothing rage. It's difficult to respond gently when you get surprised like that, especially at your own door.

[michaelpush]

19. People are all for

the first amendment until something offends them. Get this one, I work for a movie theatre and we were going to show "The Da Vinci Code". I actually received an e-mail from a person who said it "offended her, and we should not show the movie". Well if I didnt show the movies that affended someone, I would have no movies to show! I guess she didnt think a "movie" was an expression of "freedom of speech". The thought processes that people have are truly bizarre, out of wack, out in left field, beyond the moon,,,,,welll, you know ... :crazy:

[sgxnk]

28. what she did

has nothing to do with the first amendment

the first amendment means GOVERNMENT cannot restrict your free speech rights

any private business can, and does , make editorial decisions like this

she can write and email and say "this movie offends you"

and the theatre can go "screw you"

that's free speech

similarly, a bookstore owner cannot be required to sell a book that denies the holocaust happened

nor can it be FORCED to sell that book

govt. has no say either way

note that in many countries that don't have true free speech, it IS illegal to deny the holocaust

certainly, holocaust denial is offensive (to me). but govt. has no say.

PRIVATE citizens do

[KyndCulture]

30. Not when the city law backs me up.

She can be offended all day long. Doesn't change the fact it is my property and it breaks no laws.

[sgxnk]

32. i agree

that's the point

this is not really a 1st amendment issue because she is not a govt. actor

her ASKING you to remove the sign has nothing to do with the 1st amendment because she has no authority to do so

you have every right to listen to her, to agree, or to disagree

of course you cna keep the sign

if the GOVERNMENT told you to do so, THAT would be a first amendment issue

[Canuckistanian]

77. Unless she was threatening to call authorities about it

And the authorities try to make KC take it down, THEN it becomes a 1st Amendment issue.

[michaelpush]

34. I never said

She didnt have the right to e-mail me and object, she does. I was alluding to her thinking that we had "no right" to show the film.

[sgxnk]

36. right

but again we parse semantics

you have every legal right

whether you have a "moral right" or some such tripe is another issue

frankly, i thought the movie was boring as hell

no pun intended

[michaelpush]

39. I thought

it could have been 2 hrs shorter if they took out the police looking for them, get right to the point, definately boring...

[KyndCulture]

40. Yeah and I'm sorry...

Hanks was totally wrong for that role... I wanted Sean Connery.... needed someone with some gray around the edges and worldly.

Hanks was just a bumbling idiot.

[KyndCulture]

37. Same thing.

Idiots with entitlement issues.


Sometimes working for peace is HARD WERK!

[WoodrowFan]

63. from 1915-1952 Movies were NOT protected

a 1915 Supreme Court case decided that movies were a "business" and so not protected by the 1st Amendment. It wasn't until 1952 Burstyn v. Wilson that the Court decided that they are indeed protected expression. (thank you ACLU!!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Burstyn,_Inc_v._Wilson

[Midlodemocrat]

22. No reason at all. You are totally in the right.

Screw her.

[earth mom]

You shoulda asked why she hadn't been raptured yet!

:rofl:

[KyndCulture]

23. Just called City Hall.... she's WRONG.

The ordinance does say no signs on the public easement between the street and the sidewalk, and no profanity. That's ALL it says.

My sign is next to my house 30 feet from the public easement.

I know it's her free speech to object and it's mine to tell her to go to hell about it.

Free Speech, ain't it grand.

[Guaranteed]

65. They're going to target your house, now, though.

I'd set up a video camera or buy something for home defense. The dumbasses won't let you "get away with this."

[klyon]

78. yes, I agree

just wait til her redneck husband gets home
he and his drunk friends might do anything
that is why I am very careful here in redneckland

[kevinbgoode]

91. Of course...they view intimidation as their free expression of "speech"

but stand your ground! They take one step out of line and their asses will end up in jail and then you can sue them out of their pink flamingo/neon palm tree Bush-sticker car home.

These wingnuts have decided they suddenly have license to force everyone to not only hear their opinions, but be forced to honor them while they have special rights to put up whatever they choose. We are going to have to be tough about this stuff - you aren't dealing with people who know much about being Americans - they just like being told what to do, especially if it includes blaming others.

[mnhtnbb]

107. Actually, you can also put up a "No trespassing" sign and then

if she comes back you have every right to tell her to get off your property.

[KyndCulture]

108. tee hee hee.,... well...actually

I bought a "beware of owner" sign and stuck it on my door this afernoon.

[sgxnk]

29. your sign

is golden

[Fleshdancer]

33. she has a neon palm tree and a pink flamingo?? wow.

:rofl:

Good for you for standing your ground.

[KyndCulture]

35. Yeah I failed to mention...

she was wearing spandex shorts over her deuce and half lb ass....

I would not ever call someone a fat ass, but it just fell right outta my mouth!


HAHAHAHA

[jberryhill]

79. Neon Palm Trees Rock

I'd get one of those AND the sign.

http://www.christmaslightsetc.com/categorydetail.asp?CategoryID=441

[Fleshdancer]

83. .

:rofl:

[KyndCulture]

38. I really think I will change the sign out everyday...

I have some nice baby blue posterboard... .


I think tomorrow's lesson for the neighborhood will be.

JESUS WAS A LIBERAL


:rofl:

[China_cat]

41. Here's one you can use at the holidays

[KyndCulture]

42. buhahahahahahaah

:rofl:

[China_cat]

43. I have that on a sweatshirt

that I wear a lot between the first of Nov. and the first of Jan.

[AlinPA]

44. If you lived within a condo association, rules could specify the kinds of

signs you could display and where there could be displayed. For example, only "For Sale" and only in your window.

[wicket]

45. Time for a second sign

(LOVE the first on BTW) Time for a second sign saying something about the 1st amendment :evilgrin:

[KyndCulture]

46. Oh my happy ass just got back from the art supply store.

I now have 10 more sheets of poster board and a whole new set of permanent markers.


I WILL WIN THIS FIGHT!


This is a small town, pretty much a country lane... no condo association, no sign ordinances that I am breaking and that woman messed with the wrong pissed off fired up liberal.

She's very lucky I didn't tell her just how far up her fat ass she could shove that W sticker on her truck.

If she does it again, I'll be at the door, phone in hand callin the po po.

[Rainscents]

58. Revenge is HEL!!!

LOL... I LOVE YA!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Fucking right wingers think they own the world, and can silence dissent.

Own a car? Might be time for some bumper stickers.

[theHandpuppet]

49. Not all hillbillies are Freeptard assholes

I'm a hillbilly and there are plenty of your fellow DUers here who are hillbillies, too.

Edited to add: BTW, do you have many hillbillies up there in Minnesota or have you actually ever met a "hillbilly"?

[KyndCulture]

50. I am from the south dear.

We have our share of them here... we usually call them cowboys here, but the midset is the same.

I just said hillbilly cause I was really angry.

No offense intended.

[theHandpuppet]

51. Well I AM offended, dear

Just so you'll know.

[KyndCulture]

54. I said I was sorry.

Jeez,i am talking bout a freeper asshole.

Not you.

I hope you accept my apology. I was angry.

[theHandpuppet]

57. Apology accepted

I just hope that next time, before you type, you will realize that using hurtful stereotypes as epithets feels like a slap in the face to some of us who have been called those names throughout our lives. Sometimes anger is more revealing than we would like to think.

Be well...

[shortcake]

94. Thanks Handpuppet n/t

[hedgehog]

52. Her concern is fascinating

Is this confirmation that Bush really does serve the haves and have-mores? Obviously, she thinks that anyone who agrees with you would have less money in hand if and when she goes to sell her house. Also, that no one who disagrees with you would purchase her house. Keep the sign up; you could turn your entire district!

[johnaries]

53. Property values? Tell her if she promises to move

you'll take the sign down until she sells. :evilgrin:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

55. Good for you!

Somebody like that would make me want to make even more signs, which is apparently what you are doing. Is DTL excessively freeperish, or is this frothing sow an anomaly?

[Rainscents]

59. You should had added and said...

Looking at her FAT ASS and W bumper sticker on her truck offended you!!! Good for you to speaking up!!! Keep up the good work.

[KyndCulture]

60. I am not completely proud of my rage.

But damn, sometimes it's just too much...

I said somethings I shouldn't have... but fuck, sometimes it's just too much.

[davsand]

61. I think I'd cover my front yard with signs.

I dunno--Why limit yourself to just one? Seems to me you could have a real ball making signs and putting them out in your yard.

I think I'd smack hell outta the asswipe with some really mean signs. I've always kind of liked "A village in Texas has lost its idiot--can we send W home now?" but that may not be quite what you want...

For sure I'd put up one saying "W lied and people died" along with one saying "Please, somebody give W a hummer so we can impeach him!" YMMV.

Have fun plucking her last nerve!

Regards!


Laura

[Pied Piper]

62. Here's what I would have said:

"If I take this sign down, may I show you how far I can shove it up your ass?"

Sounds like you may have yet another opportunity to use that line. With my blessings.

[KyndCulture]

64. I totally appreciate the support.

I said some things I regret... But I was just SO GODDAMN ANGRY.

I work for peace every single day... and to have hate knock on my door put me over the edge.



I am finishing tomorrow's sign...

"You can't be Pro Life and Pro War"

if somebody wants to come fuck with me about that.... They will leave intellectually bloody.


I am just over this shit

This is my home and I can put whatever message I want in the yard.


Just cause these lil bastards can put those racist icons, and pink flamingos, and stupid fish.... why can't I say what is in my heart.


SIGH... as ya'll can tell I am pissed.

[B Calm]

66. Next time tell her you put your house up for rent for people on HUD

[lonestarnot]

67. Hey you b calm... what problem do you have with people on HUD?

Sure you're in the right place? Democratic Underground?

[B Calm]

68. I have no problem with people on HUD, but the bitch down the street

will!

[lonestarnot]

72. Thanks for the clarification.

Yes she probably would.

[lonestarnot]

69. Tell her

she's an unwelcome trespasser and if her ugly ass shows up at your house again you will take the sign down and beat her ass with it. In addition you are going to make one for each of your neighbors and then their neighbors neighbors and pretty soon that your whole neighborhood will be adorned with them. :evilgrin: Oh and on edit, that her face and fat ass are devaluing her own property. The end.

[femrap]

70. If she bothers you again, tell her you're gonna put

up a 'No Trespassing' sign...addressed to her!

[Gregorian]

71. I wonder what her attitude would be if she lived in Iraq.

But she can't extend her little mind that far.


I absolutely cannot believe that someone would actually stoop to confronting you about that. It's one thing to be evil and keep it to yourself. It's another thing to be open about it.


But then that's exactly why I don't display anything. Ever. And it's a shame. I salute your bravery.

She'll find out. Maybe in her next lifetime as a mosquito. Right before I swat it.

[K8-EEE]

73. Obvious Bush Voter -- They Hate Us For Our Freedom

OMG....all I can say is, I love L.A.!! My hat's off to Red State DUers, seroiusly, if I had Freepers in airspace distance I would be in a constant state of aggravation to say the least...

[dapper]

75. Georgie Bush just called

I got the call from Agent Mike, Mike stated Gee Dubya just called. He is signing into law that you are no longer entitled to free speach. Agent Mike is sending over the cops to confiscate your sign.

Dude, you're screwed! :-)

Dap

[Fox Mulder]

76. If someone came to my door complaining about that sign...

you know what I would do? I'd make it 2x's larger. Just to piss them off.

[Posteritatis]

100. With blinking lights. nt

[zcflint09]

80. As long as there's not a HOA or local ordinance

You're in the clear. Then put up some more signs to really piss the bitch off.

[KyndCulture]

81. there isn't... and I bought more posterboard today.

My little peace garden will be exactly what I want it to be.

I want peace... and these dumbass neighbors can just deal with it.

I am not breaking any laws, and the little signs I put in my peace garden by my front window will be exactly what I want them to say.


Fuck these assholes.

[Buns_of_Fire]

82. Gee, I guess this means the joint block party is off... :-)

[Mabus]

84. The only one who could possibly ask you to take it down is

your landlord. You indicate that you are renting ("I told her when she pays the rent on this cottage...") so you might want to check your lease. I once had a provision in a lease at a house I rented once that said I couldn't put signs in the yard. Also, when I did canvassing a couple of months ago I ran into several people who said they could display a yard sign in their front windows but their leases prohibited them from having the signs in the yard.

So, if your city codes don't outlaw it and there's no provision in your lease, it looks like you are within your rights.

[KyndCulture]

87. My new landlord...

is a rabid dem from the twin cities....

if I pay my rent, she really does not give a shit what I do.


So that is not an issue.


She lives far away, but my guess is she would support me all the way!!

[Stinky The Clown]

86. Be very, very nice to her. Smile a lot. And then tell her .....

.... to just go fuck herself.

[KyndCulture]

89. Just finished tomorrow's garden sign.

"You can't be pro life and pro war"



Can't wait to see if she tries to vandalize it and my little peace flower garden

[DanCa]

88. Can I get that sign

You know it's your property whats up with people today?

[KyndCulture]

90. rabid stupidity?

that's all I can think

[Ganja Ninja]

93. The gaul of these people is off the charts.

I hope you didn't pull any punches and used the language you describe. I think I would have turned the hose on her. If she shows up again you may want to call the cops just to get your complaint logged before any vandalism starts or she files a false complaint against you.

[DemsRBetterLovers]

95. Depending on the state you live in...

Renters have no right to tell other renters to alter their property (as they dont really own it). Putting political signs on your front lawn does nothing to devalue a property, you'd literally have to carve it into the front of your house to do any sort of property devaluating damage. As a former property evaluator, i can tell you that in california, political bias plays no role in the value of ones property.

In fact it is illegal for anyone to devalue a house based on the political leanings of the neighborhood. Now, if a real estate agent was to show the property to someone who was offended, you might run into trouble, but nothjing you oculdnt argue in court. The simple fact of the matter is that you have to constitutional right to offend as many people as you like, so long as it doesnt bring bodily harm to them.

[Shadoobie]

96. Back in 2004

In Duluth, MN, we had this guy who put up these signs in his yard.



The City wanted them removed since they partially blocked the view of cars at a busy intersection. When the signs were shown to be within the legal requirements, the city dropped the charges.

Since then, new buildings have been erected across the street that block his view of Lake Superior. He has tried selling his home. I had to laugh at all the times he had to drop his price. I don't think it ever sold but it is off the market now.

Greg

[MurrayDelph]

97. We've got one in the Valley I drive past everyday

(I don't know how to embed a photo that is not already on the web).

There is a jerk whose house I pass every day on the way to work, who has large signs on
his yard that say things like "We Support President George W Bush" and "Stop Judicial Tyranny."
Two years ago, when I found out that my wife's car had no trade-in value, I thought about
parking it in front of this guys house with a big sign on it that said "Support the Troops:
Impeach Bush!"

As far as the jerk neighbor, I would have taken one of two tacts:

1. I would have said, "My father fought in the war for me to have the right to have these
signs! Why do you hate America?"

2. I would have told her that anyone her size who wears orange Spandex shorts has no grounds
to decide what is offensive! (Rotsler was right: there SHOULD be a legal limit on Spandex!)

[KyndCulture]

98. Todays sign,....

"You can't be PRO LIFE and PRO WAR"


no knocks on the door yet.

Bur I am pepared for another confrontation.

[KyndCulture]

99. I need some ideas from you guys.

This sign protest is going to go on daily.


I have 17 pieces of 20 inch posterboard.


Give me some some ideas to put on them.

No profanity... and it has to be kinda short cause the poster boards are half size.


I want a new sign every day.

Do you guys have some ideas?????

[Reckon]

102. If you replace the sign right away she wins.

Wait about a week or just add a 2nd sign for now.

And the next time tell her to get off your property and close the door.

[KyndCulture]

104. The only reason I removed it was because of a thunderstorm.

Soon as I woke up this morning a new sign took it's place.


Far as I am concerened thre will be a new sign ever single day in my garden.

[blonndee]

105. Make some with peace signs, maybe really pretty, colorful ones

and maybe some peace doves, too. Also, simple words like "Peace" and "No War" get the message across and couldn't be described by your neighbor as being confrontational (no ammo, ya know).

Then a few with brief slogans like what you see at protests would mix in nicely.

You know what would be funny? One morning go out and put them all out at once.

[mnhtnbb]

110. Support the Troops. Bring them Home.

[Jax]

112. One of my all time favorites

It still applies. Love what you are doing KyndCulture. I printed out your first sign and it is now on my front door. It is door knocking season and I want them to know what to expect when they come to my door.

Excellent!

[mnhtnbb]

106. Unless there are city ordinances against yard signs or you have

a HOA with restrictive covenants, you're entitled to put up a sign on your property. If you don't own the land (if you're renting) you may end up
having a problem with your landlord if there is something in your rental agreement that prohibits putting signs in the yard without the landlord's approval.

[KyndCulture]

109. Nope.

My landlord is a flaming liberal...

She'd never say I couldn't have a sign.