Hezbollah needs to be taught a lesson, and Israel needs to be consistent.

[Clarkie1]

Hezbollah needs to taught a lesson. Apparently, they over the past few years they have become emboldened by Israel's lack of sufficient response to their provocations. They say they did not "expect Israel to react so strongly." Well, they need to EXPECT Israel to react so strongly. That is the only way any of this will stop. Hezbollah needs to clearly understand how horribly severe the consequence of the game they are playing will be for them, and if they refuse to learn that lesson, their standing among the Lebanese people will be greatly diminished. If people know when Hezbollah provokes Israel the response will be severe, consistently severe, the provocations will stop. The Lebanese people will demand they stop. They need to learn they don't get to kill, kidnap, and launch rockets and expect some sort of diplomatic prisoner exchange.

Welcome to the new rules of the game, Hezbollah. Peace in in your hands.

[Name removed]

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[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. I'll ask you the same thing I ask those who support the Iraq war.

Why don't you go and teach them a lesson yourself?

[Clarkie1]

4. The Israeli army is doing that already. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Mmhmm.

The same excuse the Chickenhawks use.

[Clarkie1]

7. Whatever, you aren't making any sense. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. There's the pot calling the kettle black.

[liberalhistorian]

14. No, they're not. They're destroying

the civilian and economic infrastructure of an entire country, killing and wounding hundreds of civilians, mostly women and children, creating a horrendous humanitarian crisis with nearly a million desperate, homeless refugees, many of whom saw family members murdered right in front of them, etc., etc.

You don't think the children who are the victims of this aren't going to grow up to remember Israel's actions and to be all-too-eager to take up arms against it? You actually believe that such atrocities are going to make people turn against Hezbollah and run to Israel? The first poster is right, you seriously need some help.

[Clarkie1]

18. Some of them will hate Israel for this.

But I think a lot, perhaps even more, especially the adults who understand the dynamics of the situation, will not want Hezbollah hanging out in their neighborhood anymore.

[Name removed]

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[Clarkie1]

6. A post some may disagree with is not flamebait. nt

[chimpymustgo]

9. Go pick up a gun and fight, or better yet, get some help.

nt

[Clarkie1]

12. Do you disagree with my OP? If so, why?

[walldude]

47. True, but multiple threads on the same subject

by the same person on the same page, make fucking flamebait. Maybe you can explain to this kid how it's all Hezbolla's fault:

[liberalhistorian]

10. Hate to break it to you, and I"ll try to be gentle here,

but Israel's current actions in Lebanon are doing absolutely NOTHING to make civilians turn against Hezbollah. Quite the opposite, in fact. Children are watching their families being bombed and shot at right in front of them, nearly a million desperate, homeless refugees, hundreds killed and wounded on the Lebanese side while less than a third of that on the Israeli side, and guess what? Those victims are NOT putting the blame on Hezbollah.

Especially when they see Israeli planes bombing and shooting at cars and busses with desperate civilians attempting to flee, and even the shooting of Red Cross ambulances carrying wounded. The more Israel pulls this shit, the less likely civilians are to cooperate with them. You may not give a damn about the horrendous death toll and humanitarian crisis, but rest assured many others do.

I realize, of course, that their lives don't matter, that they're all terra-ists in disguise, even the children. As one Israeli soldier said, when the Palestinians do it, it's "terrorism", when we do it, it's whitewashed as "defense."

[Clarkie1]

13. I do give a damn. Why do you think I don't?

I'm not convinced this is not turning Lebanese against Hezbollah. You'll need to provide more evidence of that.

[liberalhistorian]

25. OK, how about this?

In every single news report I've seen of the Lebanese refugee camps, with interviews of Lebanese civilians and refugees, the VAST majority of them not only did not turn against Hezbollah, but they were angry and bitter against Israel.

You actually think bombing the hell out of a country and its civilians, with children watching their families killed in front of them, is going to make people be in favor of the country doing the bombing and killing? You really believe that? Why do you think the Northern Ireland crisis has gone on so long? Because bombing the hell out of Catholic neighborhoods, and retaliation by the IRA, only made each side dig in harder against the other.

That's like saying that Hezbollah's firing of rockets into Israel would make Israelis look favorably on it.

[hack89]

58. NBC interviewed Christian Lebanese

who are getting on with life completely indifferent to the suffering of the Shiites in the south. One woman was quoted as saying it was not their concern. Many Lebanese resent an Iranian proxy warping their democracy - toss in some religious animosity and I wouldn't be surprised if there are not many Lebanese who are privately cheering Israel on. Religious tribalism is alive and well in Lebanon.

[BeachBuckeye]

134. "not their concern"?

Now THAT is rich. "Not their concern"? The whole friggin infrastructure in Lebanon is being systemically destroyed and its not her concern? She must be one of those "morans" we're always hearing about.

[slaveplanet]

29. Turn on your TV

BBC world did a whole piece on just this subject. Little children just lost their sibling and when interviewed, in tears, they said they just want to live so they can grow up and join Hezbollah.

I got the impression that the rest of their now displaced neighborhood feels the same way.

[hack89]

53. Shades of grey

On the NBC nightly news there was a story how the Lebanese christians are going on with life not giving a damn about the Shiites in the south - some of them see it as an opportunity to weaken foreign (Iran) influence in their country. One woman was quoted as saying "there are two Lebanons - what happens on the Muslim side is not our concern."

There may some shades of grey here that you are ignoring.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[Clarkie1]

15. Nope, not Rush. nt

[BayCityProgressive]

19. I agree that

Israel needs to strongly attack Hezbollah, call for them to be disarmed, AND have an international force on the border. I don't think bombing Beirut was needed though. Lebanon could have turned out to be one of Israel's better allies in the region but I doubt that will happen now. However, playing devils advocate I could see this issue getting no attention by the media or international calls to action if Israel had just continued sucking up all the missile attacks as it had been and this would have gone on forever, with the citizens of northern Israel and the whole nation paying the ultimate price once Hezbollah was given more powerful weapons. Hezbollah is happy about the deaths of Jewisg children and actively targets civilians. Israel needs trageted raids all along southern Lebanon to root these assholes out and Lebanon needs to take a much stronger role in this.

[WinkyDink]

120. An international force on the border? Never gonna happen.

[The_Casual_Observer]

16. This will solve nothing. It doesn't matter how many people Israel

murders, there will just as many tomorrow that hate them. It's way beyond the point of "teaching a lesson".

[Clarkie1]

21. What needs to happen is Hezbollah needs to be removed from Lebanon.

Permanently.

[The_Casual_Observer]

27. Think they would just disappear? Vanish?

[Clarkie1]

32. It will require a coordinated effort by Lebanon and the international

community. The Lebanese army needs to be stregthened, and there will need to a clear mandate that all militias must be disarmed.

[liberalhistorian]

42. And how, exactly, can the army

be strengthened when Israel has just destroyed it and its infrastructure, along with everything else important in the country? Not to even mention the hundreds of civilian casualties and the nearly a million refugees.

[Clarkie1]

57. It will require a strong international commitment and mandate.

It can be done. And by the way, the entire Lebanese infrastructure has not been destroyed, and what has been destroyed can be rebuilt in short order with enough international assistance, which needs to be forthcoming.

[hack89]

71. Not true completely

there have not been concerted attacks against the Lebanese army - remember that Hezbollah did not let them into their territory. It also appears that the christian portions of the country are not being attack at all - on the news there was a report how the christians were getting on with live unaffected by the attacks and completely indifferent to the suffering in the south.

[liberalhistorian]

28. Why don't you just nuke Lebanon and

be done with it? THAT would get rid of Hezbollah permanently, at least in Lebanon. Not the other countries, though.

[Clarkie1]

33. I want to minimize civilian casualties.

Also, I want a future Democratic, peaceful Lebanon.

[liberalhistorian]

39. MINIMIZE CASUALTIES?

Good God, did you actually take my "nuke 'em" post seriously? And as for minimizing casualties-bit late for that by now, doncha think? I see that there is no point in further discussions with you.

[Clarkie1]

45. No, I did not take it seriously, did you? nt

[Karenina]

38. This bloodlust on all sides

is a self-fufilling prophesy and terminal illness.

[oneold1-4u]

85. The government of Lebanon

doesn't have the strength, without outside help, to get rid of hezbollah, even though they would be the first to say that those people who live with and condone that terror group are hezbollah themselves.
If you sleep with the animals, their fleas will bite!

[Name removed]

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[JeffR]

20. If Hezbollah were bearing the brunt of the casualties

There might be something to your argument. Unfortunately, as in Iraq, it's innocent civilians doing most of the dying. And, as in Iraq, a new generation of terrorists is being created from whole cloth.

If you can construe anything positive from this mess, I envy you. From my perspective, it's just another Dance of Death in the "Holy" Land.

[demnan]

22. Israel doesn't fight its wars like we fight ours

We have made half-assed attempts at war with Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. Mostly because we had no moral right to be in those places, except perhaps in Afghanistan where we were so incompetent we couldn't find and take out the perpetrators of 9/11. There was no question about how people would fight in the Pacific theater in WWII, they fought to win because if they didn't they thought Japan and Germany would take over the world. I was often told by my father who was on Guatal Canal for two and a half years as an Army Captain, that if we hadn't dropped the Bomb on Hiroshima, I wouldn't be here. Well, I think a lot of us wouldn't be here as well. So in that war, we fought like Israelis. War is a nasty business when done correctly. Civilians by the thousands are killed. The Israelis will always fight to win a war, because losing a war means the end of Israel.

I hate war. My family has always been called to fight. My brother came back from Vietnam an emotional mess and he didn't even see combat. My father was never the same, according to my Mom, when he returned from WWII. I don't agree with everything Israel does, but I do understand that they are fighting a serious war to win. Whether they will ever have peace is another story. They have paid a tremendous price to have their own country. Evidently they still think it's worth it.

[chimpymustgo]

36. Israel is fighting a massacre, a slaughter against Lebanon. Not a war.

Doesn't it SHAME you???

[Clarkie1]

43. It's not a slaughter against Lebanon.

They are not targeting the infrastructure....electricity and water supplies have not been hit.

400 deaths is 400 too many, but it is not a massacre against all of Lebanon. It's a tragedy. It's a tragedy brought on by Hezbollah's agression and cowardice when they hide themselves in civilian areas.

[demnan]

115. Actually, it does shame me

because I know it's horrible. It also shames me that we dropped the bomb on Japan, nothing about this issue is clear-cut and clean. I also believe the founding of Israel was a mistake, one that the British led us into.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

41. I wonder if

you kill more people with a "half-assed" war than an all-out war? Is something that drags on and on worse than something over in a few weeks?

I don't know. That's one of those cosmic questions I hope to have answered when I leave the planet. I have a whole list.

[Clarkie1]

52. Well, that's my thinking.

If Israel does not "finish the job" (meaning severely degrade Hezbollah) in preparation for an international peacekeeping force, and a stronger Lebanese army keeping them from rearming, it just drags on...which means more bloodshed instead of trying to put a stop to it (at least as far as Lebanon/Isarael/Hezbollah is concerned) now.

[demnan]

117. Probably you would

most things done half-assed hurt more than whole-assed things. But that is war. And this has been part of our history. We can't ignore it.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

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[acmejack]

92. Guadalcanal?

No purpose whatsoever was served by dropping the bomb on Hiroshima, other than demonstrating to Russia that we had it & they had better behave. Japan was prepared to surrender and was seeking surrender terms already. Don't Call us half assed either unless YOU participated! You have no business slandering us veterans, it is entirely wrong, there was nothing halfassed about the bullets they were shooting or the 55000 brave men and women who are memorialized on that wall in the case of Vietnam.

I really resent that.

[demnan]

105. I meant no disrespect to the soldiers as my brother was one

Only to those strategizing the wars. Sorry you took it the wrong way. I have lots of respect for soliders, my cousin just returned from UAE, by the way.

[acmejack]

130. Glad he returned safely.

Thank him for his service for me, please. I am sorry if I over reacted, I am seriously stressed, as are we all I am sure.

[magellan]

23. After reading several of your posts

...I'm proud to add you to my ignore list.

[Clarkie1]

26. I'm sorry to hear that. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

118. Don't be.

Ignored posts can't be alerted on, you know.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted sub-thread

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[burythehatchet]

138. Ditto

[earthside]

24. Who will teach Israel a lesson?

This is the kind of thinking that is leading to more violence and more death and more hate.

How about Israel complying with UN Resolutions 242 and 338? How about treating the Palestinians with some dignity?

Because we can all play this game of whom provokes whom and deserves to be taught a lesson.

Here are three atrocities committed by Israel that I found on different links on this subject here at DU.

Lebanese Doctor Says 'Phosphorus Weapons' Cause Suffering | CNN International/Raw Story

Israeli Cluster Munitions Hit Civilians in Lebanon | Human Rights Watch/ReliefWeb

Qana, Ten Years Later

All-in-all, I have to say that since Hezbollah is basically a creation of Israel because of the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, you'd think that Americans would be a bit more even handed when addressing this topic.

[oneold1-4u]

103. Que sera

The US has and is using phosphorus weapons in Iraq!
I just looked at a house hit in Israel with some type of cluster bomb!
The world won't go flat again while democrats discuss (cuss) what others do or believe is right or wrong!

[Mr_Spock]

124. Yeah, right or wrong is irrelevant. And we use phosphorus, so it's good

We were outraged at the use of phosphorus in Feluja as well.

[killbotfactory]

30. Hezbollah claims the only thing Israel responds to is violence

When Syria left there was pressure for Hezbollah to disarm in Lebanon. They used they claimed that the only thing that got Israel to leave in the first place was their force of arms, and they used the occupation of the Shebaa Farms as an excuse to not disarm.

I think with the new democracy in place in Lebanon, they were seeing their influence in the region diminishing, and started attacking Israel to get a response like this.

Attacking the entirety of Lebanon will not stop Hezbollah. An 18 year occupation by Israel could not stop Hezbollah. The only thing that will stop Hezbollah is a peace process which they have and will do everything they can to undermine. Israel's overreaction and collective punishment has ensured decades more of this shit, both by alienating most of the Lebanese who don't like Hezbollah (by attacking their army and destroying their infrastructure), and by strengthening support for Hezbollah in the south (by bombing innocent people who are trying to flee the mayhem).

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. Shocking

I know this is "your" position, but I find it absolutely shocking that you would continue on this line in the face of events.

[Mr_Spock]

37. I was going to say - ANOTHER repeat post from clarkie

what else is new?

[Demit]

35. Then wouldn't now be a good time for the Lebanese people to "demand they

stop"? Don't you think that if all it took was for the Lebanese people to "demand they stop", then the Lebanese people would "demand they stop"? Wouldn't this be a relatively simple conclusion for the Lebanese people to come to, the last two weeks full of a sufficient amount of horror? Or hasn't the lesson been sufficiently severe? How much more severe do you think it has to be before it dawns on the Lebanese people that all they had to was "demand they stop"?

What the hell, you think this is the Wizard of Oz? All the Lebanese have to do is click their heels together and say there's no place like home?

Welcome to the new rules of the GAME? When you're not being delusional, you're being jaunty!?! I can't remember the last time I've read a more awful post. You're scary.

[Clarkie1]

40. Hezbollah has consistently behaved as if it were a game

and that's part of the problem.

[Mr_Spock]

44. So lets murder hundreds of Lebanese as punishment

for their inability to get Hezbollah to act like grown ups?

Who is really being punished here anyway?

[Clarkie1]

49. Lebanese are not being murdered.

They are being used as human shields by Hezbollah.

How many more will die if Hezbollah is allowed to continue on it's present path?

[Mr_Spock]

55. "They are being used as human shields by Hezbollah."

That is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard on DU.

There are klansman within a few miles of where I live. Should my entire neighborhood be blown up to ensure we get the klansman, whom I have never met??

Crazy inhumane logic :puke:

[Clarkie1]

60. Well, the U.N. disagrees with you.

According to the U.N., Hezbollah deliberately places themselves among civilians to maximize civilian casualties.

[Mr_Spock]

69. Oooh, so that makes murder right??

I hung out with murderers even though I was not aware of it - should I be killed?

[Clarkie1]

72. Israel is not murdering anyone.

Please use precise language.

[Mr_Spock]

79. 10% target rate?? That's COLD BLOODED MURDER!

Just because you aren't shooting directly at a particular person, go try to hit a target in a crowded mall and then say "well I didn't mean to hit the person" as you are lead away and charged with murder.

[Clarkie1]

83. Do you know why it's 10%?

Which, by the way, is not the definition of murder.

[Mr_Spock]

87. So killing 90% innocents on purpose is not murder?

I think we will be in anarchy soon...

[Clarkie1]

89. They are not killing 90% innocents on purpose. nt

[Mr_Spock]

93. So how do you describe the murder of 90% innocents as the aggressor?

If I did it, I would kill myself as I could not live with the souls of the dead on my conscience.

I'm surprised any DUer can :(

[Clarkie1]

96. A tragic loss of life

caused by the choices Hezbollah makes to be the aggressor and to hide among the innocent.

[Mr_Spock]

99. It is tragic and unjustified.

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

[burythehatchet]

142. Here's precise language for ya

Israel - is - a - terrorist - state - with - jets - missles - and - nuclear - arms.

[blonndee]

84. The UN also disagrees with you.

Israel bombing breaks humanitarian law - UN official
Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:46 AM BST172

By Tom Perry

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Israeli bombing of a Beirut neighbourhood where Hizbollah had its headquarters has breached humanitarian law, a senior U.N. official said on Sunday.

"It is horrific. I did not know it was block after block of houses," Jan Egeland, the U.N. emergency relief coordinator, told reporters as he toured the shattered Haret Hreik district. "It makes it a violation of humanitarian law."

<snip>

"We are setting up a major relief operation but the violence has to stop," Egeland said, calling for a halt to the war.

"The rockets going into Israel have to stop," he said. "The enormous bombardment that we have seen here with one block after another being levelled has to stop."

full story at http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-07-23T094600Z_01_L23862127_RTRUKOC_0_UK-MIDEAST-EGELAND.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage3

[oneold1-4u]

129. With knowledge one could learn

That the ugliest people living on this earth are those who from birth are destined to be killers of those who are not of their kind, or faith.
Many of these begin to touch death when they learn to speak or write.

[treestar]

46. It doesn't work in the schoolyard either

And never works on this scale of things.

Yeah right. The US taught Al Qaeda a lesson and so Al Qaeda is apologizing and saying they'll never do it again.

Israel has taught so many lessons in the past, Hezbollah should not even exist. Right. Carry on.

[Clarkie1]

48. Actually, it does work in the schoolyard.

Children (which is what Hezbollah should be treated as) need to understand what the consequences will be for their misbehavior, and the consequences need to be consistent...otherwise they will just keep trying to push a little bit harder each time.

[killbotfactory]

51. So when hezbollah acts out

We should bomb all of Lebanon.

That makes a lot of sense.

[Clarkie1]

61. Israel is not bombing all of Lebanon. nt

[Mr_Spock]

56. Yep, bad children - you will behave after we murder your family

:(

[Clarkie1]

62. Israel is not murdering anyone. nt

[Mr_Spock]

64. Israel is KILLING IN COLD BLOOD - AKA MURDER!!

You are supporting the murdering of innocent civilians, unless you think a 90% civilian casualty rate is acceptable?

[Clarkie1]

67. They are not murdering anyone...look up the definition. nt

[Mr_Spock]

74. Hole in head - body burnt beyond recognition - innocent human being

Yep, that's MURDER. If the chance of hitting the target was only 10% and they attacked anyway - that's MURDER by any definition.

[Clarkie1]

80. Look up the definition of murder in a dictionary. nt

[Mr_Spock]

86. "anyone who commits a serious crime during which any person dies"

Wikipedia.

"in the United States anyone who commits a serious crime during which any person dies, is guilty of murder"

This is criminal and you are supporting MURDER. It is deliberate and there is little care for who is killed by accident.

It's murder.

[Clarkie1]

91. What crime is being commited?

Israel is defending itself. They are a sovereign state and have been attacked.

[blonndee]

97. War crimes.

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5191465&nav=0Ra7

[Clarkie1]

98. On both sides, according to the U.N. nt

[blonndee]

106. Indeed. ON BOTH SIDES. You finally admit it. Thank you. nt

[Mr_Spock]

100. They are slaughtering innocent people with deliberately bad targeting

It is a crime and it's called MURDER.

You are supporting that :puke:

[chimpymustgo]

59. I really wish you would go away. Your posts are disgusting and disturbing

This is sickening.

[Clarkie1]

63. Why, because I agree with most Democrats on this? nt

[earth mom]

133. Most Dems? WTF?

That meme is complete and utter bullshit that DINOS like Hillary & Lieberman spew! Probably "General" Clark is saying the same shit too. I have No Doubt that the majority of Real Dems in this country do NOT support this crap and Never, Ever would. Of course we won't be privy to Real public opinion because the corporate warmongers control the media! They want to sell us on this war just like they've done with Iraq! Otherwise, nobody makes any money, ain't that right?!

This is MURDER, SLAUGHTER, GENOCIDE!!! You don't just go in and drop bombs like Israel is doing without killing innocents. Israel KNOWS THIS and they are DOING IT ANYWAY!

[ima_sinnic]

141. wtf?? oh, "Dems" like Joe Lieberman. (nt)

[Midlodemocrat]

54. On a slightly smaller scale, I think Schwazenegger is an asshat

So I think the Virginia Air National Guard needs to bomb the absolute shit out of Californians to teach them a lesson for electing him.


Do you not realize how silly that sounds? You don't 'teach people a lesson' by killing their families. You enrage them and empower them against you.

Clarkie, I know by your posts that you support Israel, but what the Israeli government is doing to the people of Lebanon is unconscionable.

Please, consider that the someone's children are being murdered. Does that make a difference? I would hope it would.

This entire thing is madness, but you don't fight terrorism with brute force. We discovered that didn't we, in Iraq?

[Clarkie1]

66. Israel is not murdering anyone.

I am very annoyed when people use imprecise language, because it doesn't lend itself to a reasonable discussion of what is happening.

[charlie]

81. Imprecise, like "infrastructure"

and the way you blithely redefine it to mean only water and electricity? Yeah, that's pretty annoying.

Your colon must be the size of a two-car garage, it's unbelievable how much crap you manage to pull out of it.

[Midlodemocrat]

82. Do you think what is happening in Iraq to the Iraqi children

qualifies as murder? Because I do. And, I think the MURDER of Lebanese children along with Israeli children is outrageous and needs to stop now.


And, I am using the term children rather loosely. We are all someone's child.

[Midlodemocrat]

88. The Merriam Webster definition of murder

I would say that what is happening in the ME qualifies, but hey,that's just me.


Main Entry: 1mur·der
Pronunciation: 'm&r-d&r
Function: noun
Etymology: partly from Middle English murther, from Old English morthor; partly from Middle English murdre, from Anglo-French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English morthor; akin to Old High German mord murder, Latin mort-, mors death, mori to die, mortuus dead, Greek brotos mortal
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
2 a : something very difficult or dangerous <the traffic was murder> b : something outrageous or blameworthy <getting away with murder>

[ima_sinnic]

65. Israel IS consistent: consistently committing atrocities

--I guess purposely targeting UN observers with industrial-strength bombs teaches Hezbollah something, eh?

for someone who was given a big chunk of someone else's land, Israel sure has hubris. They haven't figured out YET that they're just not wanted around there?

[Clarkie1]

77. There is no evidence they were purposely targeted.

Please be more accurate in your posts.

[ima_sinnic]

132. riiiight. after reading your posts above about how Israel is "not

committing murder," your semantics BS, I KNOW you won't admit poor widdle picked-on Israel would EVER purposely target UN observers. You might want to read this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2412726
Plenty of food for thought there. Especially the fact that 14 bombs were aimed for the general vicinity of CLEARLY MARKED UN compound, at least one making a direct hit on an ambulance with a huge red cross on the roof. Don't they boast of "precision targeting"?

you are defending the indefensible. Israeli whoevers will be in The Hague with their benefactor and role model, His Most Pestilent Fraudulency, aka "*"

so when are you picking up a gun and joining the IDF to "teach a lesson"? or are you, like our "friends" over on the-site-that-shall-remain-nameless, big on talk and small on what it takes?

[ulysses]

68. this seems as unfortunate a view

as that which says that Israel should be thrown on the "trash heap of history".

[Clarkie1]

75. hmmm....I disagree. nt

[ulysses]

76. yes, I figured you would.

Still.

[Zhade]

70. Ah, so you support the concept of collective punishment.

Seek therapy. Soon. It's not healthy to approve of tactics the Nazis used.

[Clarkie1]

73. Nope. I don't.

It seems Hezbollah supports that view, however.

[iamahaingttta]

78. I happen to agree with you...

...and I happen to believe that ANYONE who kills innocents, especially children, is a goddamn motherfucking asshole who should rot in hell for all eternity.

The problem with starting threads like this, is that someone inevitably will assume that since you believe one side "needs to be taught a lesson," that means that you are taking sides and agree with the violence being perpetrated against whomever is "being taught the lesson." So, let's try this:

Hezbollah sucks. They are killing innocent children. Fuck them!
The Lebanese people in general do not suck, unless they support Hezbollah's killing of innocent children, in which case, fuck them! If they don't support Hezbollah (and most Lebanese don't) then it is a crime what is happening to them. Those responsible for that crime should be punished.

Israel exists. Does it have a right to exist? I'm just a dude, I don't know. But it exists and it's going to continue to exist. Get used to it. I've known a number of Israelis over the years, and for the most part they were all wonderful people. They are going to protect themselves. And when they go overboard and kill innocent children, those responsible are a goddamn motherfucking asshole who should rot in hell for all eternity.

If Osama bin Laden has or is responsible for killing innocent people, he is a goddamn motherfucking asshole who should rot in hell for all eternity. Same for George Bush (either one), Dick Cheney, Bill Clinton, Abe Lincoln, Mick Jagger, Richard Perle, Adolph Hitler, Phil Spector, Iran, Japan, Homer Simpson and YOU! Fuck them all to hell for all eternity if they (or you) have killed innocent people!

I think that's probably simple enough, but chances are I'll get flamed somehow...

[LWolf]

95. Okay.

<snip>

happen to believe that ANYONE who kills innocents, especially children, is a goddamn motherfucking asshole who should rot in hell for all eternity.

Number one on the list: The United States. Lining up behind them, every leader/gov't/admin/military/citizen/soldier on planet earth who ever supported, voted for, or engaged in war.

Please move them to an off-planet hell ASAP. Send their weapons with them.

[bigtree]

90. that 'lesson' should not be exacted from the blood of Lebanese civilians

You and all of the rest of those who continue to hawk Israel's militarism as a 'defense' against Hizbollah must take responsibility when it becomes clear that the reprisals which have slaughtered and maimed hundreds of Lebanese civilians are feeding the very resentments that make folks there reluctant to do anything which is advocated by Israel and their supporters.

Some game. It's sickening to continue to read these posts hawking even more slaughter, as if that had solved anything so far; as if it ever did; as if we aren't bogged down in our own country's refusal to understand the dynamics of a resistance, of insurgents, of splinter organizations intent on stirring things up. These hawks always oblige the senseless violence with their own idiotic reprisals.

THEY bear responsibility for the perpetual violence they encourage with their deterrent strikes designed to intimidate with their destruction without actually hitting the source of the supposed threats. THEY bear responsibility for their own reckless violence.

And, it won't wash when they claim that the idiocy of someone else drove them to it. Not for those who profess to be so concerned with the sensless violence against their own.

[Clarkie1]

94. The reason civilian casualties are so high is because

Hezbollah hides among them. They are responsible.

[acmejack]

102. I think one who feels as strongly as you should join the IDF

Then you could "teach" some lessons too! You would obviously really enjoy it you have bloodlust all about you, it is apparent from your posts. Hurry, before the killing is over, there are only so many collateral, er Hezbollah sympathizers and regrettable accidents to taught a lesson.

[bigtree]

108. that's crap, but, you go on and spread it. your responsibility

I certain you haven't bothered to find this out, but in fact, both Hizbollah's actions and many of Israel's are in violation of international law. Both countries aren't signiatories to the treaty so they won't be charged, but it is a violation to fire into these civilian areas except in immediate defense. There is no provision for the vengeful punishment on the civilians who are left in these areas after the attackers exit. They don't stay there and wait for return fire. You should know this, but, these facts don't fit into your strident defense of Israel's actions, so you pretend to be oblivious to them, But, you do know that killing innocent civilians is wrong, no matter what the excuses are. The moment you accept those deaths as 'collateral' you have reduced the value of those lives. That's not Hizbollah doing that, it's you Clarkie1. You are the one who has spent days on end advocating the attacks that have resulted in over 350 civilian deaths in Lebanon. You are the one who has spent days advocating this as some 'lesson' to the Lebanese, as some vengance. You are the one who has spent days warmongering. And, here you are again, advocating violence. Take responsibility for your own actions without blaming Hizbollah for them. The Israelis need to do the same.

[JeffR]

109. You've been urged repeatedly in this thread to get some help

It's pretty obvious at this juncture that you're beyond help.

[Clarkie1]

101. *****************I want less killing, more peace.******************

I realize many of you disagree on the best path to achieve that, but please understand the loss of innocent life breaks my heart.

The opinions I have posted are, in my opinion, the most likely way to avoid the continuing loss of innocent life. I'm not asking you agree with what I think is the best path, just that you understand I want peace as much as you.

Thank you.

[walldude]

110. Now all of a sudden all this "Collateral Damage" breaks your

heart? After reading your posts in this thread I was wondering if you had one. You go from all this "tough shit, Hezbollah put them there" to "it breaks my heart". Gimme a break.

[Solon]

111. I don't believe you, in fact, all your posts so far prove the contrary...

get rid of that damned Peace sign, its obvious that it means nothing to you.

[bigtree]

112. then stop advocating more war and violence

[Mr_Spock]

119. AMEN

The "eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" saying really says it for me.

[ima_sinnic]

136. oh boo hoo--yeah right, you're REEEEAL broken up about it!

SO broken up, you're crying for MORE blood.
whatFUCKINGever.

[earth mom]

104. You need to change your avatar because you have no idea what Peace is. nt

[EFerrari]

113. You need to change your avatar because you've no idea what peace is. nt

[tnlefty]

114. Kill'em all, let God sort it out!!!!!

There is no longer any reason for peaceful conflict resolution. Any action can be justified; any AND ALL provacations of either side of the conflict may be overlooked. Justice is thrown out the window and therefore you must KILL THEM ALL1

[bigtree]

116. You need to change your avatar because you've no idea what peace is. nt

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigtree]

122. go to hell

[Mr_Spock]

128. A tasty Freeper to be roasted over an open fire

We can feed it to the dogs :D

This is a joke smartypants!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

123. Hello there

[Mr_Spock]

126. LOOK!! A Freeper moron agrees with you!!

Man, this is perfect!!

[ulysses]

127. adios, fucknut. n/t

[Mr_Spock]

125. You need to change your avatar because you have no idea what peace is (nt)

[earth mom]

135. For a minute there I thought I was seeing triple!

:hi:

[Mr_Spock]

137. I like the trend

Imagine if 20 or so followed suit? :D

[BeachBuckeye]

131. Some people never seem to learn.....

The Israeli's actions in Lebanon are the very REASON Hezbollah exists today. If you think for a moment that after the Israeli's get done bombing the hell out of Beirut and killing a bunch of civilians that the Lebonese people will all of a sudden demand that Hezbollah get out then you don't know your history.

Time to face the fact that Israel will not be satisfied until they drive out every single Arab in the region and have a 200 mile buffer zone all around their country and Uncle Sam will help them do it no matter what the consequences for America.

[ContraBass Black]

139. There's a world of difference between spanking a naughty child

And blowing up 400 people, most of them noncombatants.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

140. And you have a peace sign as your avatar?

Black is white. Up is down. Bombing the Lebanese people will bring peace....

Ick. I think I need to clean myself off...

[pinto]

143. Locking.

Civility went out the window on this one. We maintain that DUers can disuss a topic without spinning out into a string of PA's, personal sniping and general incivility. Locking.