Every time I think Israel has hit a new low

[CuteNFuzzy]

They go lower. Murdering UN peacekeepers is absolutely insane. It's one thing to murder innocent civilians - it's another thing to murder those who came to provide some protection to those innocent civilians.

Am I dreaming this? Israel just fucking murdered United Nations PEACEKEEPERS!!!!

I cannot believe this is happening. Furthermore, I cannot believe every politician in Washington lines up right behind everything Israel ever does. There will be no questioning, no criticism, just more of the same stupid bullshit "Israel has a right to defend itself"

Am I saying Israel does not have a right to defend itself? Of course not. Israel has every right to defend itself. But that's not the issue at all, and every coward in Washington, Democrat and Republican knows it perfectly well.

The issue is that Israel does not have a right to murder every civilian in the street, and it does not have a right to use chemical weapons on children and burn them in the face, it does not have a right to cause humanitarian catastrophes on a weak 'self-defense' argument. It has no right to bomb ambulances and rescue services trying to help people, no right to bomb bridges, power facilities, neighborhoods, and fleeing refugees.

And it does NOT have a right to murder peacekeepers!!!

How could anyone with any sense of humanity about themselves not be in full agreement with every word written here?

[Redstone]

1. Do the other guys have the right to do the same? Because that's what

happens when you blindly fire rockets into the middle of cities. And they've been doing it for YEARS.

Got some outrage about that as well? Just wondering.

Redstone

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. My outrage is on overdrive.

:grr: :cry: I just don't understand all of this! :argh:

[CuteNFuzzy]

4. .

.

[uppityperson]

8. I think you are saying that we shouldn't be outraged at this unless

unless we are outraged at all the other bad stuff that both sides have done? Don't just be outraged at what 1 group does but at all? That is how I am feeling, is this what you mean?

Edited because I reread what you wrote and think I understand

[Redstone]

64. Yes, I think it's only fair to be outraged at BOTH sides. Is it fair to be

angry at the stupid shit that Israel is doing, yet say it's OK for the other guys to do what they're doing?

Redstone

[CuteNFuzzy]

67. who said it's OK for the other guys to do what they're doing

[Redstone]

69. Well, the OP for one, by omission.

Redstone

[ruggerson]

33. Of course they don't

the outrage amongst the Hezpologists (like that?) is very one sided.

[ThomCat]

41. Funny, only the Israeli Apologists have been saying

That invading another country, bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure, and attacking ambulances is okay.

So look who's really being one-sided here. :grr:

[jsamuel]

43. So now some have resorted to saying "people here support the terrorists"

how Bush of you

"You're either with us or your against us."

[burythehatchet]

47. get help

[BillZBubb]

2. Wait for the Israeli apologists to respond!

As always, it will be good for a sad chuckle.

Every time Israel shows what a thug it is, the Israeli apologists line up to use all the same talking points Freepers use to justify our criminal actions in Iraq. It's like they all read from the same brain damaged play book.

[Superman Returns]

5. yea really

First of all, to simply say that Israel purposely killed UN peackeepers is irrational and the same kinda jump of conclusions that got us into war with Iraq. Lets see what the reports say.

Second, you do realize that millions of Israel's are in bunkers right now as their homes in the north are being destroyed. Had they not had those bunkers the deaths might be on the same level as the Lebanese. Justification? NO, but this is a tough neighborhood where lack of action = perceived weakness and open invitation to attack. This is especially true in regards to Hezbollah, a group of terrorists that are not interested in sitting down and mapping out agreements and land treaties but literally driving all the Jews into the sea.

[LibertyorDeath]

11. UN Attacks Look Deliberate: Annan

MsKandice01 Donating Member (724 posts) Tue Jul-25-06 04:01 PM
Original message
UN Attacks Look Deliberate: Annan

UN attacks looks deliberate: Annan
From correspondents in Rome

July 26, 2006 08:33am

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan today said he was "shocked" at Israel's "apparently deliberate targeting" of a UN post in Lebanon, in which up to four UN observers were killed.

Mr Annan described the strike as a "co-ordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long established and clearly marked UN post." He said it took place "despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that UN positions would be spared Israeli fire."

"Furthermore, General Alain Pelligrini, the UN Force Commander in south Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular UN position from attack.

"I call on the Government of Israel to conduct a full investigation into this very disturbing incident and demand that any further attack on UN positions and personnel must stop.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,19916610...

[Clarkie1]

They may "look" deliberate.

But appearances can be deceiving. It may be that there were missiles being launched from the site, Hezbollah fighters were using the area, or any of a number of possibilities.

It could have been a mistake, but the least likely thing it could have been was a deliberate attack by Israel on the peacekeepers. The last thing they want is that kind of publicity.

[CuteNFuzzy]

25. What makes you believe

Israel is so above and beyond deliberately targeting civilians and peacekeepers? What makes you think they wouldn't? You think it's about publicity concerns?

[SPKrazy]

30. No, What Makes You Think They Are?

I'll tell you my outrage of the day

WHITE PHOSPHOROUS being used on civilians, and the baby video on CNN

that is horrendous

I would not have thought that Israel was capable of that

I support her right to defend herself, but this is an ATROCITY

[Clarkie1]

48. I'm not going to attempt to prove a negative for you.

Nice little debate trick you are playing there, but you tell me why they would...what would they gain from doing that deliberately. Think.

Or, prove to me that the universe is not run by a giant cookie monster...

[Sherman A1]

6. Well Said

I think the ambulance thing and the U.N. Peacekeepers is a bit over the top. I really doubt that the high tech, highly skilled Israeli Armed Forces didn't know what they were targeting. Indiscriminate attacks by BOTH sides are unacceptable.

[Superman Returns]

7. Well, I guess that means

Clinton purposely ordered the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Kosovo.

[Sherman A1]

14. Well I don't think I said that

so putting words in my mouth isn't really that appropriate. For years and years we have heard just how highly skilled the Israeli Military is. Do accidents happen in war - certainly. Do they happen in fluid situations - certainly. Do they happen - when positions (such as the U.N. Peacekeeping Posts) are well known - well maybe, maybe not. Do they happen to U.S. Naval Vessels in international waters flying large U.S. Flags for well over an hour by several branches of a supposedly highly skilled armed force - well maybe, and probably not.

[The Magistrate]

17. That, Sir

Always struck me as more likely deliberate than anyone has acknowledged.

The Serbs had recently managed to down a U.S. "stealth" bomber, and the Chinese about that time agreed to release a sizeable shipment of oil to Serbia, with the manner in which it was to be paid for remaining somewhat dubious. The idea of a sort of barter, trading information, transmitted through the secure channels of the embassy, for the petroleum, has a ring to it that is hard to resist....

[ThomCat]

51. There is a huge difference between one missile being

miss-aimed, and an entire campaign being miss-aimed. Israel has been targetting civilians, businesses, ambulances, bridges and even the end of their so call safe corridor they supposedly established to allow international aid to come into Lebanon. So what makes you think they wouldn't also target the peacekeepers?

[Spazito]

9. At this point, the reality is Israel can do anything...

use white phosphorous, bomb ambulances and UN posts, bomb fleeing civilians, bomb dairies, paper factories, etc, etc, etc.

Israel has become Hezbollah only with more advanced weaponry.

[Superman Returns]

12. good lord

Democratic Underground or Radical Underground. I'll trust Wesley Clark on this one.

[blonndee]

19. You seem to spend a lot of time railing against "radical" DUers.

This board is what it is, and it's not going to change just because you don't like it. Didn't you have a big dramatic "goodbye" thread the other night because you didn't like "radical DU" or something like that? Why continue to waste your time somewhere that obviously makes you so angry and with whose members you find so little common cause?

[Superman Returns]

22. Why?

I just like posting some times. I came here all the time during the 2004 election. It felt good to see what you guys were up to. I was a big Edwards fan. Now all of a sudden I feel out of place. Sorry if I throw the word "radical" out there. I know its a bit Freeperish. But hey, I dropped the "R" bomb after reading a post saying that "Israel is Hezbollah with more advanced military technology." You do realize thats not in the mainstream. And the fact that its not, may be a compliment for some I assume. After all, the mainstream did but Dubya in office. But to be honest, if you look at all the statements by the major liberal Democrats, you realize that not one of them ever equated Israel with a terrorist group. So, take it for whats is worth.

[Wonk]

26. What was your previous handle, out of curiosity? nt

[Superman Returns]

27. what do you mean handle?

[Wonk]

28. username

[Superman Returns]

32. I think I had two

President Parker I think and the other one I wish to keep secret for personal reasons. However, I was more of watcher than a poster.

[SPKrazy]

36. Kaboom!

He set you up

it is against DU rules to come back after being kicked off and use another username!

[Wonk]

37. No such user exists. I thought you said the problem was you lost your pw?

[Superman Returns]

53. The first one I did

lose my password. It was a few years ago. The second one, I wished to give up for personal reasons because I bumped into a person I already knew in real life, and did not wish for them to talk to me on this. If you really want me to give it to you, I'll send you a private message. If you think I'm setting up multiple names for some elaborate plot your clearly mistaken. If you want to ban me mainly because I disagree then go ahead. Really. I probably agree with you on 8 out of 10 issues and because on this issue, I favor Israel's actions, I'm some kinda guy you wanna find a way to ban? Whatever....

[SPKrazy]

59. Couldn't You Have Gotten Your Password E-mailed? n/t

[Superman Returns]

66. I did...

But I was probably at school at the time and byst. I also used an old AOL name as my email address that was filled with spam. Bottom line, I was too lazy to look through it once I got around to checking, and I didn't even have a lot of posts to make it worth it. I just deleted everything in my mail box. So I just made a new one a few months later when I really felt like posting. Most of the time I observe.

[Behind the Aegis]

61. President Palmer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=129848

I think if you lose your password they can reset it. You should contact a mod, they can help you out.

Welcome...well, welcome to posting!

[blonndee]

57. Well, I'm certainly not implying that you

don't belong here or anything, and I don't want you to feel that way. There are all stripes of Democrats and progressives here, although it does seem to be more liberal, and more radical individuals than there are on other forums (and it's not an insult and it's probably best not to use it as one, ha ha.) You just seem angry that a good number of DUers disagree with you on this issue and have views that may not be what you consider "mainstream." But that's how it is. A lot of DUers disagree with some of my views, and sometimes I get angry about it. But I still try to appreciate DU for what it is.

Anyway, you don't need a lecture from me. I hope somehow this horrible fighting in the ME will soon be resolved, unlikely as it looks right now. Then we can go back to the regular little spats and the awesome conversations we usually have. Including you! Ah, the good old days of DU!

[Minstrel Boy]

58. "You do realize thats not in the mainstream."

Jesus Christ, if we wanted mainstream, we'd have no trouble finding it.

[ThomCat]

56. And the Israeli Apologists will pretend that Israel is

doing nothing wrong. They will refuse to even consider what Israel is doing and will insist on hiding behind supposed self-defense.
:grr:

[Sannum]

10. ahem

:popcorn:

[Clarkie1]

13. Yes, you are dreaming. There is no evidence Israel has murdered anyone.

Get back to me when the official investigation is completed. We know far to little about this incident to draw any conclusions at this point.

[CuteNFuzzy]

15. uh ok

all the killing have been suicides then?

Oh, I know, and they were done to make Israel look bad and evil.

Great argument there

[The Magistrate]

21. The Root Of The Problem, Sir

Seems to be the common use of "murder" as a synonym for "homicide". A murder is a homicide that is against the law, and a great many homicides are not against the law. A homicide can only be called with certainty a murder if it has been declared one by the conviction of the perpetrator of it for the crime of murder. Until then, a homicide may be alleged to be a murder or believed to be a murder, but persons who do not share the view that it was unlawful will brindle at it being called a murder.

[CuteNFuzzy]

35. You argue that no laws have been broken?

In the killings of these peacekeepers?

[SPKrazy]

38. An Investigation Will Tell

until then, we have the Israelis saying it was an accident

[CuteNFuzzy]

40. and you believe that?

[SPKrazy]

49. I Believe It More Than I Believe They Deliberately Targeted Them

but I could be proven wrong

[The Magistrate]

46. No Idea, Sir

Why the place was engaged is beyond my knowledge. It is always dangerous to be in the vicinity of a battle: mistakes happen, on a variety of levels.

[TomInTib]

39. "murder" looks like this

[The Magistrate]

50. The Engagement Of The Ambulance Convoy, Sir

Certainly seems to have been a violation of the laws of war.

[Clarkie1]

62. Thanks. nt

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

20. "when the official investigation is completed"

Whose official investigation? The Israel military's investigation? The UN's investigation? The Lebanese civil authorities? Hezbollah's investigation? Some party with no reason to lie?

[ThomCat]

63. You are kidding, right?

Israel has murdered thousands of people. This would just be the latest incident.

[MisterP]

16. I've always hated that plunge into the depths of depravity

once the U.S. in Iraq, and then Israel in Lebanon and Palestine. WP, slaughtering children to "get the terrorists to stop" by "showing the consequences," torture, butchering observers, all celebrated and cheered on by screaming hordes of fascists. It's the same ugliness appearing endlessly in human nature.

[bwoody1]

18. Misplaced anger

Why such an adamant distinguishment between peacekeepers and civilians? What exactly places peacekeepers so much higher in the food chain...people are people.

Israel certainly shouldn't target civilians, but neither should any of the other groups/states in the Middle East. 400 deaths later, I think a few UN Peacekeepers are the least of our worries.

[CuteNFuzzy]

23. I acknowledge the point

I don't mean to make an adamant distinguishment. But the peacekeepers went there to protect civilians from harm - and then they're being targeted too for murder! The question for me I guess is, when does it end?

[bwoody1]

65. No easy answer

I don't know that the killing in the Middle East will ever end. It seems that when religious beliefs run so deep that people are willing to kill or be killed for them, there will never be a true peace. Journalists or peacekeepers should enter the conflict area at their own risk...the people firing the guns are so committed to their cause, that collateral damage is nothing more than an after-thought.

That sounds morbid, but it's true. The level of fanaticism and desperation in the Middle East is not something I can easily understand, but I get the impression that neither side is particularly worried about a few civilian deaths. It's a fight or flight situation, and at the moment, if you're within 50 miles of the Lebanon/Israel border you're in the fight...like it or not.

[liberal N proud]

24. That is what happens when you are in bed with the bu$h regime

You keep seeking new lows, going ever lower with each new action.

[Beacho]

29. Using the behavior of others is really one of the worst excuses

That one is usually reserved for the school yard. Teacher, But he hit me first!
One of the reasons ancient feuds suck real hard

[wakeme2008]

31. Add to that Israel just asked for 20,000 Peace Keepers

What for ... Target Practice. :grr:

[Pavulon]

34. Because you are speaking

of events that have yet to be backed by facts.

People are dead. No one has concluded the events that lead to their deaths.

People die in wars, many times those people are killed by accident. Like journalists in the palestine hotel in iraq.

Killed by aimed fire from a tank.

Beirut is standing because israel has chosen not to level it.

[CuteNFuzzy]

42. And peacekeepers are dead

because Israel chose to target them.

[SPKrazy]

45. Oh Really?

they may have

but you have nothing to base that on but your own opinion- that Israel chose to target them

[CuteNFuzzy]

52. why else are they dead

[Pavulon]

55. Wrong place, wrong time..not new in war(nt)

[SPKrazy]

68. War=People Fucking Die

that's why war sucks

but not all deaths are targeted

as I said, this may have been, but I'll choose to believe Israel at this point over rumor

[Pavulon]

54. You were on the ?

ground or on their com net? You know that a FO spotted the target, identified it as un (not misidentified as enemy), and then knowingly called a fire mission against it?

NO?

Else you are speculating, how many angels on head of a pin?

[MadHound]

44. Umm, only part of Beirut is standing

A good part of Beirut has been indiscriminately leveled, causing injury and death to those innocents who lived there. But you are correct, it is because Israel has chosen to do so.

[Pavulon]

60. Back that up

with a 3m sat image. That is a statement that you can not back up in fact.

If it were leveled "indiscriminately" more than 400 people would be dead. Yes?

[Lex]

70. Locking.

This thread has, not unpredictably, turned into a flamefest.

Lex
GD DU Moderator