Please stop assuming

[uppityperson]

If I say "A" should not be killing "B", please do not then assume that I am saying it is ok for "B" to kill "A". Sometimes a topic is about only one or the other's actions. If you read a topic about the actions of 1, please do NOT assume that (many of us) I mean that it is ok to let the other do similarly bad things. Please. There are topics on both/all sides doing wrong things, plenty enough to go around.

All it does is sidetracks and pours oil on the flames that are dividing us. Please let (us) me post my distaste of an awful action without saying "well why don't you complain about the other guys doing the same thing" because I AM saying that in another thread or HAVE said that in the past.

Killing each other is wrong. Fighting amoungst us over that is wrong. Please. Thank you.

[havocmom]

1. If I can be passionately opposed to the neocon adgenda, Iraq war...

and still love America/Americans I can most likely be opposed to what the leaders of other nations are doing without hating that nation and its people.

[uppityperson]

5. I can say I hate something someone is doing and also hate what the other

one is doing but do not always express them in the same sentence/topic.

[havocmom]

31. Spot on

[Solly Mack]

2. Does get tiresome doesn't it?

[uppityperson]

4. very tiring. emotional times and very tiring.

time to stop and think.

[uppityperson]

3. further, I think bombing innocent civilians, whether by plane or body

is wrong. Suicide bombers disgust me. Dropping bombs on cities disgusts me. Shooting rockets at each other and hitting suburbs disgust me. Speeding up sending rockets to Israel disgusts me. Car bombing disgusts me.

It is all wrong. If I say (pick one) is wrong, please realize that I also think all these other things are wrong.

We need to be working together, I would really like to be working together. I really appreciate being able to have all of you combing through things and posting information and articles and am getting really really tired of people assuming things. So please, remember all these things disgust me. Thank you.

[beam me up scottie]

10. No no no.

You HAVE to choose sides.

Didn't you read the rule book?

[uppityperson]

19. seems like some try to force that onto me.

interesting when I get accused of supporting 1 on 1 thread and other on the next when all I say is "quit hurting civilians". Reminds me of the fanatics that say you cannot "support the troops" without supporting everything they do. sort of.

[cynatnite]

27. I lost my rule book...

that's why I break them all the time now. :evilgrin:

[uppityperson]

29. rule 1, don't assume because I don't say something I don't think it

rule 2, don't hurt people, don't hurt things
rule 3, we will all die
rule 4, question authority
rule 5, don't leave goldfish in a pond in 90 degree temp

[beam me up scottie]

30. It's getting pretty damn scary

when the sanest, safest place to post on DU is the Religion forum.

[beam me up scottie]

6. Thank you.

I stayed out of this until tonight.

Silly me, I thought I was discussing world events with other adults on a progressive political forum. :banghead:

[uppityperson]

8. you are welcome, seeing usually rational posters descending into this

getting tired of it. And yes, responding to all the posts to kick this back up because damn it anyways I want people to see it.

[beam me up scottie]

12. I'll help.

Let's people know there's a beacon of sanity in GD tonight.

just follow the light...

[MadMaddie]

7. Thank you...

You are so right....

This line of thinking is a repug tactic.....and now we are seeing it here....

[BeHereNow]

9. And how. n/t

bhn

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. Agreed Completely.

I have seen much of that going around, and was a victim of it earlier when some jackass implied that I supported Israel dropping bombs out of the sky because I merely said that Hezbollah are scumbags.

It seems that some here can't wait to pour oil on the flames of division and almost get a rise out of it. These are tough times for us right now, and we'd all do well to try and use as much respect and restraint as possible in dealing with opposing points of view.

[MadMaddie]

13. I was called a terrorist lover..

because I said that if the terrorist could have do overs they would return the Israeli soldiars....but they probably killed those soldiars....(they fucked up)...

I wasn't supporting the terrorist....just making a point....

Whatever...the poster had 143 posts....so I suspect it was a neocon....

[uppityperson]

15. I have seen this from highcount posters and it is wrong

just because I say () did something wrong does not mean that I do not think{} is not also wrong because I do not say so right then. "you said this by omission" is a bunch of crap since I cannot say everything everytime on everypost on everytopic.

[cynatnite]

28. If we pool every dime we've gotten...

from the names we're called for expressing a different opinion, I bet we'd be have a tidy sum :)

[uppityperson]

18. hmmm, I notice that I haven't seen many of them posting here yet

maybe they all went to bed early or are busy sniping elsewhere.

[Lars39]

14. Imagine that!

Finding pacifists on a progressive board! :D
Honestly,I thought I'd seen it all til a few days ago.
There's been some absolutely jaw-dropping statements been made.
Kinda peeled back another layer of innocence I didn't know I had.:(

[uppityperson]

17. some are pacifists and some believe wrong is wrong, but don't always

say everything wrong on every post. That would be like you now responding saying "so you think nothing is right because you didn't say so". And yes, watching much of the last week here has been something.

[beam me up scottie]

16. Recommended.

A little perspective goes a long way.

[uppityperson]

21. thank you very much.

[DYouth]

20. Amen! Peace means "peace" not "rooting for the other side"

I swear the Israeli hawks telling me I'm rooting for Hezbollah by opposing Olmert are just like the fanatics who think I'm a traitor for standing against Bush's war.

[uppityperson]

25. welcome to DU, kind of wild and wooly right now.

stick around because it is worth it.

[blonndee]

22. Thank you! I want in on that.

I'm tired of fighting.

[uppityperson]

23. welcome to the sane side blonndee

(and no, I am not calling anyone insane)

[blonndee]

24. There you go again! LOL

[uppityperson]

26. somedays I just can't win.

[libnnc]

32. What Uppity said, I concur.

I've watched in stunned amazement at the logic of some high post count DUers. I've seen posters who don peace sign avatars, cheer on death and destruction. Odd and quite disturbing.

I've tried to stay out of this mess, however, I am of the opinion that both sides of this current crisis are pretty fucked up.

[Karenina]

50. It's a phenomenom

that would be good thesis material. My beloved, adopted Jewishamama is like this. She is the most talented, progressive, intelligent, engaging, totally ON IT woman it would ever be your pleasure to meet. She's 80 now and I've been her kid for 35 years. JUST DO NOT MENTION ISRAEL.

"The Arabs are cockroaches. We HAVE TO kill them all because THEY are NOT CAPABLE of peace!"

The I/P dynamics are MIND-BOGGLING, convoluted, frightening and intractable.

[blonndee]

33. K&R. Despite your plea, it apparently continues. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

34. excellent post, you remember what is said about assuming...

.. to assume makes an ass out of u and me....

There are more than two 'choices' or options to most of life's situations. And there are many times when both choices are ones we don't like.

We SHOULD be able to be together as a 'community' and not have to all see things in the same way. Otherwise, what is the point of being together, if you have to pretend or silence who you are, to be here.

bush is the one who said "yer either with us, or with the enemy"- and that kind of narrow minded thinking is what got us into this hell.

thanks for your succinct post-
blu

[Pacifist Patriot]

35. This is precisely why I have refrained from participating in...

Israeli/Hezbollah threads. At this point I'm pretty much uninterested in the relative claims of righteousness and care only that innocent lives and all of humanity are suffering as a consequence.

[rman]

36. It seems to be really a small minority which follows

that kind of reasoning.
I know i've quite a few of them on ignore. Also i find it increasingly easier to 'manually' ignore those who are not on my ignore list.

[uppityperson]

37. Yes, I find I am not reading many posts, depending on author

rather I skip over them because the responses are programed. There is a small but vocal minority who has to chip in and chirp. Just do not assume that because I am say "x is wrong to do this" that this means "y is right to do this" because it just ain't necessarily so. If I say "I like dogs", please do not then attack me with "why do you hate cats".

[rman]

39. Nihilists the lot of them,

spouting one logical fallacy after another.

[helderheid]

38. You're just so uppity. ;) RECOMMENDED!!

:yourock:

[porphyrian]

40. Unfortunately, that stance ignores context.

Say whatever you want. I'm just saying that you are accepting that you will be misunderstood and continually attacked for your position by people who may otherwise agree with you. The subject you aren't naming is too real and too passionate for many to discuss without defensiveness. If you aren't willing to speak in a manner which disarms this, you have chosen to be misunderstood. Or perhaps understood, I don't know you from beans.

[uppityperson]

41. just because I say I like dogs, don't attack me saying I don't like cats.

yes, context is needed and I do not know all the DU posters by far. BUT please realize that if someone says they hate X killing civilians of Y, this does NOT mean they approve of Y killing civilians of X. And that these is not enough time, space, letters, to fully cover all angles each time.

Headline "x blows up y's baby"
me: That is bad, should not be doing that
angry poster: why do you not express regret that y blew up x's?
me: argh. because this is about x/y, I do and I have on y/x topics

And most DUers aren't doing this, but enough that it is getting difficult.

[porphyrian]

42. I do realize it. I'm just pointing out that there are those who do not.

And they are a significant number. If we want to reach them, we have to speak to them in a way that doesn't automatically make them fly into a rage. Ignoring this won't make them stop, and neither will a single post trying to explain your position in all of the others.

[uppityperson]

44. "don't assume the worst from everyone"

People are reacting immediately and negatively in ways that are harmful. I am asking for people to stop, think, not assume. If indeed someone is supporting something, go for it. But I am asking people to please take time, not assume. Many will not read this, but some will. Goes for me too. I have thought longer and deleted more these last couple weeks than anytime in the last 2 yrs.

[porphyrian]

45. I sympathize. However, biology dooms your plea to fail.

People cannot act rationally while under the chemical wash of certain emotional reactions. You may as well ask a wall to open so that you can pass into the next room. Or, you can modify your language so as to reduce the amount of defensive irrationality so that your message isn't lost. See?

[uppityperson]

46. people must and can learn to control their actions

All emotions are valid. How you act/react is up to you.

[porphyrian]

47. I agree. That applies to you and everyone else. - n/t

[uppityperson]

48. yes, indeed it does.

onward with the struggle of it all. (write, delete, write, delete, write, post)

[porphyrian]

49. Heh, if it were easy, you wouldn't get the same satisfaction...

...from the ones that really work out.

[sendero]

43. Some people seem to have trouble..

... with the concept that "both sides are at fault, and I'm not picking one to support".

Which has been my position on the ME conflict for a long time now.

It's not a wrestling match, I don't have to pick someone to root for.