Attica prison riots as analogy for Israel vs. Palestinians

[Ignoramus]

In the attica prison riots, the rioters were certainly not justified in committing various violent acts, but the extremely disproportionate response from the government and the prison system was also not justified.

But, it's not just a matter of 2 sides, both being wrong. The prisoners couldn't "give justice" to the prison staff, because they have no control over the justice system. But, the prison could give justice to the prisoners by making it's system of justice, which it enforces, be just. So, really the fundamental problem was with the actions of the prison.

The fundamental dynamic was abuse of power by the prison system leading to violence by the prisoners and the prison staff and then the government. This doesn't mean that the prisoners are the good guys and the prison guards are the bad guys. A violent act by a prisoner is still wrong.

In the issue of Israel vs. Palestinians. Israel is a government, while the Palestinians are a people. Israel has the control and enforces the system of justice. A bombing by someone who is Palestinian isn't a bombing "by the Palestinians", it is a bombing by a Palestinian, or a group of Palestinians, or a group of Palestinians and people from other countries. The fact that the bombing by the Palestinian isn't coming from a Palestinian air-force demonstrates that there is an imbalance, with Israel being the over-dog and the "terrorist" being the under-dog.

A bombing by Israel, is a bombing by Israel the government. Israel, the government, is an entity that subjects itself to it's own laws. So Israel, the government, is accountable to itself, while "the Israelis" and "the Palestinians" aren't governments and are not accountable.

There isn't an equal playing field. Israel's massive military might and the justice system that Israel enforces, creates the basic dynamic. A demand can be made of Israel, the government, because it subjects itself to law. "The Palestinians" aren't a law making body, they are a population, so it doesn't make sense to demand an action of them as a pre-condition. The fact that crime exists in every population, demonstrates that populations can not simply be asked to obey a law.

So, the responsibility for making change, lies in Israel's hands.

[Selatius]

1. If by "change" you mean end colonialism, you are right

The Israeli government was supremely stupid for moving tens of thousands of settlers into the West Bank in the first place. It only made the ground even more fertile for groups like Hamas to recruit, and it made it that much more difficult for Israel to "let go."

The problem is if Israel did suddenly issue a statement to illegal Jewish settlers in the West Bank to either get out or face living under the authority of a future Palestinian nation, it does not necessarily guarantee groups like Hamas will recognize Israel's right to exist.

If Israel did it, however, it would probably create fewer possible recruits for Hamas as nobody would have to face the humiliation of occupation that creates the pool of anger and resentment that could drive ordinary people to become militant.

[chimpymustgo]

2. Colonialism, occupation, collective punishment, paternalism, racism,

murder and destruction.

[cali]

3. Care to elaborate? n/t

[Random_Australian]

4. A two sided analagy in the I/P debate? Got my vote.

I happen to think your analagy accurate too.

I will say also that in time with a strong government, demands can be made of the Palestinian government also.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Good analogy

that can be extended to the present problem in Lebanon, though I think you'd call the innocent Lebanese who have no connections with Hezbollah more like visitors to the prison who were taken hostage....