What if your son or daughter wanted to join the military right now?

[Philosoraptor]

What would your reaction be?

I personally have talked two sons out of joining up, both came of age during bush one, and bush jr., and both of those jerks had wars.

I was not in the military, and I sincerely admire anyone who serves, but I am so glad that my kids didn't join.

I told them both I was proud of them for wanting to serve America, but told them that our nation was lying about why we went to war.

Now my niece has joined the Army, and is now being prepped for Iraq, even though she was told she wouldn't be sent there if she signed up for an extended enlistment.

I am worried sick, and I know my brother and sister in law are too.

Why send your son to fight and die for these particular scumbags?

[ShortnFiery]

1. I've noted before, I'd break their legs before I'd let them go kill and

die for lies. For war profiteering. That's what ALL this is about.

WAR IS A RACKET!

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

[atreides1]

2. I'm glad that my son has a criminal record

Nothing violent, but criminal none the less and it has kept him from enlisting.

[babylonsister]

4. Minor criminal records probably no longer matter; if he's

breathing, the war machine would probably take him.

[ShortnFiery]

5. Yes, ready and willing to "SUCK them into the Intake" of the Great

USA Killing Machine.

As Rummy fondly remembers of the Vietnam Draft. :puke:

[electron_blue]

37. hmmm, the Marines took my brother even with his criminal record

guess it depends on what they did? And how long ago it was? don't count on it

[leftchick]

3. my sons are nine and eleven

and both have said they want to leave the US before the Draft comes for them! They see where these eternal wars are headed.

[chelsea0011]

6. All our sons and daughters are gay, and the military needs to know this

[Finder]

7. LOL, n/t

[madame defarge]

8. Good info for those who want to join...

Mount Diablo Peace Center in California has a great flyer that everyone who is thinking of joining should read, as well as any relatives/friends of that person. It has 5 questions, with true answers, to ask & help the person face the realities of enlisting & war. You can view the .PDF file here ===> http://www.mtdpc.org/ Look for the photo of the Marlboro Man and click on "Youth And The Military Facts You Need To Know Click Here"

Another good piece of info about how recruiters are lying to high school students & using dishonest techniques to recruit students is here ===> http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/19_03/recr193.shtml
The Recruitment Minefield - Critical literacy activities can protect students against predatory military recruiting

[larrysh]

10. I suppose I'd do what my dad did when I joined up

during Vietnam......I'd counsel him on the options and if he was still
dead set on going, then I counsel him on what to expect when he got there. Then, like my own dad, I would accompany him to the AFEES station the day he was to leave (in the hopes he would change his mind before taking the oath)...and if he still went I would do the final thing my dad did.....say goodluck, shake his hand, and cry the whole drive home.....

[Rude Horner]

9. My niece signed up a couple months ago

and this week she is starting basic training. When my brother told me that she signed up, I just about flipped out. I couldn't imagine someone at this point in time actually wanting to join. I guess she joined because she wants to get into the medical field and she couldn't afford schooling? I'm not sure.

[RB TexLa]

11. Go ask my doctor why the f*#% he can't tie a proper knot

[RB TexLa]

44. Since I got pm's about this, I do not have children

That is why "if I had a child" that was doing anything I would be upset at the doctor who botched the vasectomy. Got to love how the assumption that everyone raises children. Many of us do not.

[elehhhhna]

12. Mygals (12&9) would NEVER join, and wil not be drafted, either...

This country refused to pass the ERA, so it's NOT drafting any females. PERIOD.

[T Wolf]

18. Amen! My 19 & 25-yo daughters have too much sense as well as

values. They would never join the killing brigades, no matter how desperate for money they were.

Back in the Nam days, my father said he would drive me to Canada himself if my number came up. I would do at least as much.

[elehhhhna]

20. We'll escape back to Holland, if nec.

[stanwyck]

25. So my Marine son has no sense and no values

according to your assessment. Never mind that he's a liberal who voted for Kerry.
No. He's not desperate for money. He comes from an upper middle-class family. He has two years of college and no criminal record.
Why not be fair? Your "too much sense" reeks of the bias and smugness we at DU generally associate with the right. It doesn't seem appropriate for people who consider themselves open-minded or progressive.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

66. So why would anyone join the military, knowing that he was going to

be expected to fight and possibly die for a lie?

I can understand how an uninformed person could do that, but not an informed person.

In ordinary times, I'd be indifferent to someone joining the military, but anyone these days who believes that they're "serving their country" by joining the military is sadly and tragically deluded--as young people often are.

[RoseMead]

13. I have been having many email conversations

with military people lately, and several things have become apparent to me:

1. Most of the people I've corresponded with seem to have high ideals. They believe they are fighting to preserve American freedom, and apparently many signed up for that reason.

2. Many of them are amazingly ill-informed. I recently had a Marine tell me that if anyone was to blame for the war. it's the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center. I had to explain that 9-11 had nothing to do with the war in Iraq, other than serving as an excuse to execute a plan already in place. They are also unaware of the many ways the military lies to recruits and soldiers - your niece's situation is one example. Apparently, people don't do research of any kind before joining up, other than talking to a recruiter.

3. A number of them seem to think military service was their best option for getting money for college or a job. One soldier said he joined so he wouldn't continue to be a financial burden on his parents.

So, to answer your question - I would do my best to educate them on the reality of what is happening, the reality of what war means, and the reality of how people are treated in the military. If my child needed a job or money for college, I would do everything in my power to provide or help them get them these things in the civilian world, and I would make clear to my child that no matter how economically strapped we may be, their life is worth more to me than making my own financial situation better. And I would vigorously suggest other outlets for what is probably a sincere desire to do good - activism, community work, and so on.

[Warpy]

14. You can't control an adult

even when that "adult" is an 18 year old son who hasn't lived long enough to know which way is up.

What you can do is inform him about evil men in power who tell lies to kids to get them to fight other kids so evil men on both sides can get richer.

But you have to be prepared to be defied. Kids will still join the military after you've told them all the facts, even why that contract the recruitment officer has drawn up is called a "dream sheet."

Their reasons look stupid to us, but they make perfect sense to them.

All I can do for any of you with children of military service age is to wish you luck and hope your kids listen to you.

[larrysh]

15. Your 100% right......

I was one of those defiant kids.....dropped out of college (which my parents were paying for) to enlist....and nothing my dad said could have changed my mind.

[Breeze54]

62. Very, very true...

*sigh*

Thank You! ;)

[MsFlorida]

16. I've already had this conversation

Since I was in the air force, I can speak from a point of knowledge. Needless to say, both of my boys can be stubborn, although both are very intelligent.

I've presented my point of view, backed up with research.

When that failed, I threatened to go down to the recruiting office and do a "psycho mom".

Neither one of my kids wanted that to happen!

[kdmorris]

17. Our daughter does

She's almost 19 and thinks that the military will "give her a life". We've talked, we've manipulated, we've cried, to no avail. Like Warpy said above, you can't control an adult. The only saving grace that we have is that our daughter is 50 lbs overweight. The Army was going to take her on the spot and send her to weight management (They are REALLY desperate). The saner branches want her to lose the weight herself. So, we've managed to talk her out of the Army (she has decided to lose weight on her own and join the Navy) for now and all I can do is make sure that we feed her the worst food possible to make sure that she doesn't lose any weight.

OK, I'm not really doing that. I'm afraid if I did that she would be back at the Army's recruiting office (NO, really, Mom, he was VERY nice and didn't seem at all like he was lying to me... :puke: ) All I can hope for is that she comes to her senses before she actually joins. 18 year old children really do think that they know it all and that we are just mistaken about the world around them. They seem to believe that we are too old (I'm only 37!!) to remember what it was like at 18.

So, what will I do if she continues down this path and refuses to budge? I will cry a lot and then I will send my husband (a Navy Vet) with her to sign the papers to make sure that she gets a job that is the furthest away from killing and fighting as I can hope to persuade (though, right now she wants to be a Corpsman in the Navy). And then, I will let her live her life, knowing full well that I did everything I could to talk sense into her, that I tried to make it different. But she IS an adult and has to make her own mistakes. I just wish she wasn't making a mistake that could cost her her life (or force her to take the lives of others, though Corpsmen (Nurses) hardly do much that would endanger others' lives).

[Recursion]

24. For a female, corpsman is an ok job

They don't send females on patrol with Marine infantry (or at least they didn't in '03 when I was in). She'd probably be in a hospital. And, hey, she'd learn an extremely marketable skill (they need a lot of phlebotomists).

But I certainly understand your agony :( I hope she decides to wait a while to enlist. But my hats off to her; there is nothing quite so close to an angel on earth for a wounded Marine as a corpsman.

[kdmorris]

26. That's why my husband steered her toward the Navy

I mean, if she refuses to listen to us, the best we can do is minimize the damage. He was telling her that in the Navy, women end up getting the shore side jobs, since they have a bad record on ships (Pregnancy puts an abrupt end to many women's ship duties). And that generally means that she wouldn't be in a combat zone.

My younger sister was in the Navy in 1990 (Corpsman as well) and she got the good jobs while they sent the men off on battalion (or whatever it's called. You'd think I would know, being a Navy brat and all). She got out and immediately got a job at Tampa General Hospital, who then paid for her to finish a couple of classes to get her R.N. And so far, they (Republicans) haven't figured out a way to outsource nurses.

[Breeze54]

63. You're a good Mom!

:hug:

[WinkyDink]

19. My 18-year-old second-cousin just joined the Marines. Yes, well.

[LWolf]

21. My sons are grown men.

I support their choices, whether I agree with them or not. I support their right to pilot their own ship.

Neither of my sons are ever going to willingly join the military. They are both too stubbornly independent, like their mom, and they just don't take orders. They question, and insist of good reasons, and making up their own minds, before they take action of any kind. They are, in my maternal opinion, delightfully insubordinate to all efforts to corral them, to make them "get in line," to march, to obey... just like their mom.

[sinkingfeeling]

22. I would lock my son in the attic.

[Recursion]

23. There are 3 ways to get something done

1. Do it yourself
2. Pay someone to do it
3. Forbid your kids from doing it

Careful with how much you make the military a forbidden fruit, if you don't want them joining. Unfortunately, this war is killing the military, and we're going to need some very good people to enlist soon. So, ultimately, I'd say to calmly tell them why you think it's a bad idea, but trust their decisions.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. I got in some pretty big rows with my son during Vietnam.

He didn't enlist and I don't regret the fights.

[w8liftinglady]

28. my son has talked about re-enlisting..he is not assimilating well into

civilian life...no decent jobs,no one understands the shit he saw in iraq.it's part of his ptsd,I'm sure,and so far I have stalled him.In the end,though-it's his decision.I pray he'll find something else to help him feel worthwhile.

[Nutmegger]

29. I wanted to join a few years ago.

With freaking college tuition raising each year, the military sounded like a perfect place to go to avoid racking up massive debt.

I expressed this with my parents. They told me that they will support my choice and that it was 100% my decision but also expressed concern.

Parents should respect their child's decision. I know quite a few people who went to service because of the education benefits.

In the end I decided not to do it. While I have respect for anyone who enlists, I cannot do that.

[pointblank]

30. I'd just tell them to just say no. nt

[Pathwalker]

31. The night the Supremes ruled for Bush, I made my sons

get down on their knees and SWEAR to me that they would not join the military as long as RepubliCONS were in charge. There's 3 generations of military service in my family, so at the time, it was an extreme request, since my eldest served in the 1st Gulf War.
They have since repeatedly thanked me for making them swear to this promise.

[FUGW]

32. My nephew just graduated from boot camp at Fort Sill,

He was also told he would not be sent to Iraq. He is now in Arizona for Military Intel. training, I wonder why they would send him to should a hot place? I tried to tell my sister and my mother that joining the Army now was crazy but they felt it would be good for him and it's what he wanted to do. He's a good kid but not the brightest bulb on the tree if you know what I mean. I have talked to him about what he will be trained to do and told him to take it very seriously. It pisses me off how my sister doesn't really think it will be dangerous, I hope ignorance stays bliss.
I can't imagine the worry of having a daughter in the Army. The stories of rape by their fellow troops is totally ignored by the "Liberal Media". Keep in contact with her through letters and look for signs of concern, I'm doing the same with my nephew.

[NNN0LHI]

33. I would disown them

It would be the same if they said they wanted to go kill Canadians, Mexicans, or Americans for a living.

Don

[FUGW]

40. Gee thanks Don, I did not realize it was that easy.

I'm sorry for posting my reality and complicating the black and white world you live in. Just so you know my nephew wants to be a policeman and does not want to kill anyone.

[NNN0LHI]

51. Let me ask you something

Imagine for a moment that I was the father of a young Arab man who was considering joining some group to attack America.

Would you have wanted me to be less black and white than I was in the post of mine above you responded to?

Don

[ItNerd4life]

53. Everything is not black and white

I would still support my kids. Not all military personnel are serving in Iraq. Many of them are still just defending other areas of the world like S. Korea, Germany, Japan, and the U.S.

I thank my cousin who is currently serving every time I see him. It's not his fault we are in Iraq.

[NNN0LHI]

55. So If you were the father of an Arab young man who wanted to attack...

...and kill Americans you would support him if thats what he really wanted to do, huh?

:scared:

Don

[ItNerd4life]

58. That's not the same thing and I disagree with you

for saying it is. There is a difference between serving in the military to protect your country and wanting to be a cold blooded murderer. My friends and family who served or are serving in the military are not cold blooded murderers.

Please answer this question: Because we shouldn't be in 1 part of the world (Iraq) then we shouldn't have anybody in the military serving and protecting all the other countries that we are doing good in?

[NNN0LHI]

61. Its never the same thing. Thats part of the white mans burden I guess?

Protecting all the other countries that we are doing good in as you say.

Don

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. Who are they defending Germany from?

And why are they still defending Japan, which de facto has the seventh largest military in the world?

[laruemtt]

34. i've already told my stepdaughter

i'll have to break her legs if she tries something like that. she agrees. :thumbsup:

[electron_blue]

35. Well, she is way underage, so I'd say no on that account.

I've started a 'peace folder' for her, documenting how I've raised her and choices she has made along the way that are anti-war, anti-military, should there be a draft including women when she turns 18. It may help her get conscientious objector status. Who knows... it's a long way off and anything can happen before then. Anyway, I really don't know what I'd do if she were 18 and wanted to join. Talk with her and make sure she has all the facts, has done the research and find out what's so alluring about it to her.

And bcs I know someone will tell me that the military is not all about war, yeah, I know. My dad was career military (Air Force) and my brother was in the Marines, so I know quite a bit about the other (non-war) side of military life. Nonetheless, as i understand it, to get c.o. status you really need to establish that you have a fundamental problem with war, any war.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

36. I would do any and everything in my power to change her mind

If all that failed then I would chain her in the basement until I could talk reason into her.

What I would not do is give her my blessings to go and be killed pushing this administrations vile agenda.

Sadly, for many kids now the only choice they have of going to college is the military. I know one girl who had pot charges and now can't get a student loan or grants due to her conviction. However, the Army is more than willing to look the other way and take her.

[OhioChick]

38. Chronically ill and couldn't. n/t

[lonestarnot]

39. I am certain that I don't have to worry about that.

:rofl:

[Generic Other]

41. What? You don't think these guys look like military material?

LOL. Neither do I. Keep up the good work. Every kid you save is a victory.

[lonestarnot]

42. LOL! OMG almost forgot about that one!

[FILAM23]

43. Mine have already

done their time in the service however if they were younger and 18
I would realize that they were adults and capable of making their own
mind up.

[noonwitch]

45. I would talk long and hard to ensure that was what he/she really wanted

Then I would give him or her my full support.

My 19 year old slacker cousin was considering enlisting not too long ago. I advised him to seriously think about it, whether he wanted to go to Iraq or Afganistan, and fight in a war. I advised him if he wasn't ready for that type of work, but still was interested in a military career, to consider joining the Coast Guard.

Considering that my cousin is not working a real job, nor is he going to school, I'm at the point where if it wasn't war time, I'd be pushing him to join up. His parents have spoiled him rotten and a little discipline would do him some good.

[MardiGras Bandit]

46. This thread is disturbing.

I am reading some of the creepiest things I have ever read about parenting on this thread. Kids under ten are way too young to understand what it means to join the military, going overboard to indoctrinate them against it is ridiculous.

I am a recent college grad seriously considering joining the military. My parents do not like the idea at all (particularly my mother), but are not trying to stop me. They understand that my life is just that, my life. If I choose to enlist, they will support my choice.

My mom tried to dissuade me, but I already knew more about the recruitment process then she did and most of her (mildly hysterical) arguments fell flat. I had done extensive research before hand, and believe I understand what I would be getting into as much as is possible for a civilian. If your children are considering joining, show them this:

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/recruiter1.htm

It is far and away the most informative and fair piece written on joining the military I have found. The author tries to explain what military life will entail and gives good advice about NOT joining if you have any reservations and tries to dissuade those not truly committed to the idea of military life from joining. These articles did more to make me question my desire to enlist more then any other thing I have seen, and I suspect they would convince many people who are simply toying with the idea of service to consider other options.

[Philosoraptor]

48. Interesting.

I value your opinion to be yourself and make your own decisions, but if you were my son, I'd try to dissuade you because I love you.

Don't be disturbed by us oldies, we just love our kids and grandkids, unconditionally.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

54. Traitor! You should love 'Murka MORE! -nt

[NNN0LHI]

49. My parents didn't try and stop me from being drafted either

Luckily people with more sense than my parents ruled the day and the draft ended the year before I became eligible.

To this day I wonder why my parents weren't trying to dissuade me from allowing myself to be drafted and sent off to war like they did for my older brother. I think he received every draft deferment known to man.

Perhaps they figured I was the expendable one?

Don

[CoffeeCat]

50. If this was 1941...

...and America was fighting just causes and our leaders were not lying, evil, warmongering scum--I would be proud and amazed that my child would want to join the military forces. Our leaders had the utmost respect for military members.

However, this is 2006. Our country has been stolen by sociopathic, vile predators who view military members as expendable objects to further their sick agenda. It is a dangerous time to be in the military, because our leaders are terminal liars.

There's a site that you need to check out:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

[Lars39]

56. Kids under 10 are old enough to understand.

Seeing the Viet Nam casulties every night on the news enabled that understanding.

[bleedingheart]

47. my son is too young and ineligible

he has Asperger's Syndrome and some other diagnoses including Asthma...

My daughter wants to go to Hollywood for the moment..but most second graders change their minds...

My nephews and niece are all draft age and have no desire to join ...

Once many eons ago...I considered a career in the military..but my mother was against it.

My father was a twice decorated (Bronze Stars) combat veteran of WWII and I hold those who serve in great esteem.

[Breeze54]

52. It looks like your niece made the decision though...

Now my niece has joined the Army, and is now being prepped for Iraq, even though
she was told she wouldn't be sent there if she signed up for an extended enlistment.
They tell the recruits lots of BS to get them to join!!

My oldest son joined the National Guard, against my wishes, during Clinton's presidency.
I was very upset but I had no idea he'd be sent to Iraq either.
He went. It was hell for all of us. He's back now.

I have a 2nd son who joined the Marines against my wishes also, during Clinton's presidency.
He went to Japan. He's out now, in the reserves.
He has a back injury from some training exercises.
He has never been contacted about going to Iraq, as far as I know.
That just seems very odd to me. I mean, he's a Marine!!

Yet they sent my National Guard son! :wtf:

I have a teenage son and I'll break his fucking legs if he even thinks about joining the military!!

But once they turn 18, you don't have any legal control on what you're kids decide to do.
That's the sad truth. I thought I had explained my reasons for them NOT enlisting
but apparently grandpa got to them; in spite of me.... :grr:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

57. Well, I live in Brazil, so

the only reservation I might have is that it's a lousy choice of career. I wouldn't have to worry about them being sent off to be killed.

[Joe Fields]

59. My eighteen y.o. son has already told me he won't serve, even if

it comes to a draft. He said he will not flee the country. He will simply refuse to go, and if the government jails him for it, so be it.

[JVS]

60. I would caution against it, but know that it's not my decision

[never_get_over_it]

64. I have no children of my own

but I have three great nephews who I am very close to - they spend time with me in the summer - and visit often - and are still quite young - but I have already told the two older ones 7 and 12 that they will go in the military over my freaking dead body - told their mother and father too....

It was really quite strange we were all together on Mother's Day and out to breakfast and the 7 year old asked us - do we have to go in the Army if we don't want to? And it struck me as so sad that apparently this precious LITTLE boy was wondering and possibly worrying about that - I have no idea where this came from - NONE OF THEM WILL GO WHILE I'M STILL BREATHING - which I know sounds harsh and that they should make their own decisions etc etc etc - but they will not be cannon fodder for anyone....

[WritingIsMyReligion]

65. My mom says she'll help me to escape if a draft comes up.

My grandfather helped people gain CO status during 'Nam--he was a minister.

I personally, the moment the possibilty comes of me being forced overseas, will do everything to escape it--become a Quaker, injure myself, flee, whatever. I am NOBODY'S number in a draft, no matter how liberal or progressive the leader.

[proud patriot]

67. Panic

:-(