Why is Hillary getting a free ride while Lieberman is under attack?

[hedgehog]

Believe it or not, there is an anti-war candidate facing Hillary in the primary, but he's practically a stealth candidate for all the press he gets. As far as i know, Hillary still supports the war right along with Joe. Is it because George didn't give her a kiss that she's getting a pass?

[RedStateShame]

1. 'Cos Lieberman is beatable, or more beatable.

[bryant69]

3. And Lieberman's support of the war is more high profile

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[SteppingRazor]

7. Bingo...

For whatever reason, Lieberman's more vulnerable than Clinton. As for the exact reasoning, it's difficult to say, since both had about the same approval ratings going into the beginning of the 2006 campaign. However, I imagine it simple comes down to name recognition. Clinton is, after all, a Clinton. And Lieberman is just another senator, and one who lost his 2000 bid for VP at that.

On edit: Also, Lamont's supporters -- the more lefty side of the Democratic Party -- have had it in for Lieberman since before the 2000 election, when Lieberman denounced Clinton in Congress over the Lewinsky scandal.

[ixion]

2. the repubs really want Hillary as a dem candidate, so

they're doing everything they can to make sure she stays pristine.

Just my two cents.

[MODemocrat]

46. Hillary hates the republicans enough to fight back

I don't think for a minute they want her to be the democratic candidate.

[Kolesar]

4. There's a world of difference between them, my inflammatory friend

Hillary does not beat up on other Democrats, for one thing

[SaveElmer]

5. Two reasons...

Hillary does not take the same position on the war as Lieberman, contrary to DU belief...and she doesn't ass-kiss Bush in public, but has been very critical of his conduct.

And most importantly, Hillary Clinton is not abandoning the Democratic Party!

[calico1]

9. This CT DU'er totally agrees with you! n/t

[MODemocrat]

47. SaveElmer, you said that so well, thanks for speaking for me

Hillary is not abandoning the democratic party,and she can sure kick some "_ss." when she gets enough. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Armstead]

6. I do wish he'd get more prominence....

Not just on the war issue, but because he offers a real alternative to the corporatist woing of the Demopcratic Party.

Hillary's probably unbeatable, but at least there shgould be more of a debate about which direction the Democrats are going to go.

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. Tasini has no money and the NY media....

wants Clinton.
Thus, most people don't even know she *has* a primary opponent.

>>>but at least there shgould be more of a debate about which direction the Democrats are going to go.>>>>

Alas, I think preventing such a debate is the whole idea.

[Beetwasher]

8. Hillary Doesn't Backstab The Party Like Lieberman Does

Lieberman very publically and consistently slams his own party and defends Chimpy. Hillary doesn't.

[patcox2]

17. Other than that they are identical; "Bride of Lieberman".

A recent Salon article called her the "bride of lieberman," what with her attempts to take some social conservative positions (trying to waffle on abortion) decrying movies and video games, and her absolute hawkish support of Israel and consequently the Iraq war.

[Beetwasher]

38. Not Really, And That's A Big "Other Than That"

The cover Joe gives to Repubs is despicable. There are numerous Dems w/ conservative positions, they don't slam the Dem party any chance they get, like Joe does. Joe goes after his own party much more viciously than he ever went after Chimpy or Cheney. Just look at his debate w/ Cheney vs. Lamont. W/ Cheney it was cordial and polite, w/ Lamont he was a vicious, vindictive attack dog. It's disgraceful.

[hedgehog]

32. She may not backstab the party in an obvious manner,

but how much harm does she do when she drags the party to support Republican positions as if our positions are "too radical"?

[Beetwasher]

36. Not Nearly As Much Harm As Joe Does

Joe is after all, Chimpy's favorite Dem, and for good reason.

[napi21]

11. Because Joe's position on Iraq is NOT the only reasons people

don't want him around anymore! Think back to EVERY controversial vote that has taken place over the last several years. WHO of the Dem Senators were we ALL concerned would vote with the Pubs? The answer is always Leiberman!!!!

[theboss]

27. Which happens because people don't understand his positions

He is not a Republican as so many think. His beliefs just line up with Republicans on a few issues...same as Robert Byrd, I may add, who is a hero here.

[DinahMoeHum]

12. Right now, she's not actually endorsing Lieberman in his primary.

She's only pledged to support whoever wins the primary August 8. In this manner, she is not backstabbing the party.

And she has a long memory of Joe. Her hubby may forgive Joe for castigating them during their long year of 1998 - but she hasn't - and she hasn't forgotten.

:kick:

[saltpoint]

13. Many anti-war activists in New York support Tasini.

Many will support Tasini in the primary then vote for Senator Clinton in the general.

For a long time now, Lieberman has sought the esteem of the Bush White House, and has valued it more than his own party's opposition to Bush administration initiatives -- not just Iraq.

Respectful cooperation in the public interest is one thing. Sleeping with the enemy is another.

[hedgehog]

14. Jonathan Tasini isn't just anti-war

According to his web site, he appears to be a lot closer to the Democrats who blog her than Hillary. He wants to let everyone join Medicare. Hillary gave universal health care one shot and hasn't made an issue of it since. Tasini also wants Fair trade while Hillary is behind NAFTA. I just thought that my fellow New York DUers should know that they have a choice on primary day. Even if all we do is send a message, it's a message worth sending. I want a senator who represents New York, not one who is keeping an eye on Iowa!

[im10ashus]

19. I am right there with you.

Tasini speaks openly and honestly. Hillary triangulates and is looking at a 2008 run for the White House. Tasini will get my vote in the primary. If Hillary wins - she will get my vote in the general election.

[sonroadera]

15. Money?

It is hard to get people to pay attention to you if you don't have a lot of money to work with.

[hedgehog]

30. Right - all Tasini has going for him is his record and proposals.

Hillary continues to be an example of how big money distorts our party by ensuring the candidate of lowest common denominator wins. What we have here is a preview of 2008 in which we watch good candidates go by the way-side while Clinton's money steam rollers to the nomination. (Or is that a repeat of 1992?) Meanwhile half the voters sit at home because no major party candidate speaks for them or to them!


DLC - denominator lowest common?

[sonroadera]

34. To be fair half of eligible voters don't sit at home because no one speaks

for them. They sit at home because they would rather vote for the next American Idol. Even McGovern/Nixon had low voter turnout, and McGovern wasn't exactly a spinless corporate moderate.

[NewJeffCT]

16. Plenty of Reasons

1) Lieberman has said that Democrats who criticize the president are undermining the war effort and do so at their own peril.

That sounds like a threat to me, and why did Joe single out Democrats? Does this mean if I switch my registration to Republican, I get a free pass to criticize the debacle in Iraq like Chuck Hagel and Pat Buchanan? At least Hilary has been critical of Team Bush's management of the war.

2) Lieberman says that everything is rosy in Iraq because he saw people with cell phones there. Now, is Joe being intentionally dishonest, or is he totally divorced from reality? Much of the time on Iraq, Joe has been spouting off Republican Talking Points that sound like they are hot off the fax from Karl Rove and have long ago been debunked here on DU ("Everybody thought Saddam had WMD" – WRONG!) and in other places, like Kos, Franken, MediaMatters and the Center for American Progress. I don't recall Hilary making present-day Iraq out to the Garden of Eden, either.

3) Joe first refused to rule out a run as an independent if he lost the primary to Ned Lamont. Then, he formed his own party and started gathering signatures for a third party run for the Senate if he loses the primary. Hilary has not done this to my knowledge.

4) Lieberman has been a frequent guest on various RW programs, where he spouts off his Rove Talking Points and makes nice with the hosts. I don’t recall Hilary getting warmly greeted by Sean Hannity and others.

[calico1]

18. You remind me of another major difference...

Bush as well as most other Republicans in Congress love Joe! And so do Hannity, Limbaugh and Coulter. Now ask yourself, what do they all have to say about Hillary? Not quite the same opinion......And why do they love Lieberman so much? People who think there is no difference should ask themselves that.

[hedgehog]

21. So we should support Hillary because George is against her?

Is that Karl Rove I hear chuckling in the background?

[calico1]

28. Um...no..

I didn't say that at all. I am just stating why I think Lieberman is disliked more by Democrats than Hillary is. But if I had to choose between the two, I would choose her. She is at least loyal to the party.

[NewJeffCT]

29. Hilary is not too popular here on DU, either

Lieberman's challenger has a genuine chance to win, and that has people energized.

However, if you took a poll of DUers for 2008 and asked them to choose between Dennis Kucinich and Hilary Clinton, Kucinich would win.

To be honest, while I support Lamont, I would rather have people donating money to Diane Farrell, Chris Murphy or Joe Courtney to unseat our 3 Republican reps in Congress. All 3 Dems have a chance to win.

[garybeck]

20. no one is opposing her nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

35. Ouch ! tasinifornewyork.org nt

[garybeck]

44. cool, good to know. I change my answer to

she's an untouchable, x-firstlady.

but in reality, she should go down with lieberman. and her hubby's support for lieberman is shameless too.

[greguganus]

22. Her legs look nicer. n/t

[hedgehog]

23. Can you prove that?

[greguganus]

42. Yep...I've seen JoMo's legs and I've seen Hillary's legs.

I got a pic of her in her bathing suit slow dancing with Bill in the Virgin Islands, and she looks better than JoMo would in that suit.

[NNN0LHI]

24. Because Hillary doesn't have her lips glued to Bush's ass like Lieberman

Its not all that complicated.

Don

[Javaman]

25. She didn't slip moron* the tongue, the way joe did. nt

[leesa]

26. I think it's best to focus on one at a time. Plus, Joe is far more pro-war

and pro-Bush. Clinton is mealey-mouthed about it saying stupid stuff like it should have been conducted better, then it would have been A-OK. She should not be in power, but I think we have to wait to get out some of the DINOs. Maybe some of them will get the message and relearn basic ethics?

[H2O Man]

31. Interesting to consider.

I think that there are a number of factors involved. Many have already been noted in this thread. I would like to mention that, despite the lack of corporate media attention, there is an awareness at the grassroots level. Senator Clinton has gambled that the progressive democrats will stick with her, no matter if she embraces the Bush policies in Iraq. Her goal appears to be to position herself for an '08 run, and to attract a female republican vote.

Still, the Clinton machine in NYS (and nationwide) is fully aware of the Lieberman implications. And they are hoping the primary chalenge does not result in a good showing for her challenger.

Time will tell. Until then, we do well to remember that quote from John Wayne about, "the little guy'll beat the big guy every time, as long as the little guy's right, and just keeps a'coming."

[kaygore]

33. Lieberman is about more than just the war...Alito, Roberts, etc., etc.

[jerry611]

37. Because she has a good chance of winning

And she holds a lot of power among the moderate-wing of the Democratic party.

If the Democratic left pisses off the moderate-wing, there is no way we will win in 2008.

[longship]

39. Hillary's Senate voting record is pretty damned good.

With the exception of Iraq and a vote here and there.
In short, Hillary is a fine Democratic Senator.

On the other hand, Joementum has, on numerous occasions, undermined the party and gone his own way. His voting record is somewhat bleaker. He still has a few good votes under his belt, however, his rhetoric is often shameful. He panders to the Repugs, which is inexcusable. Joe needs to go.

[goforit]

40. Quite frankly these they two birds of the same feather. They both suck!

[Warpy]

41. Her congressional voting record is much better

and I believe 90% liberal opposed to his 60%.

She does a great job representing the people of NY.

I just don't want to see her as the nominee for president.

[opihimoimoi]

43. Hillary is the Pubs Biggest FEAR..she scares them to tears...

They want her to run??? Thats a ploy to divide us Dems...

She is tough, intelligent, seasoned, etc etc....

No one on the Pub side comes close....this is why tghe Pubs wish to destroy her or divide us...or both

[earth mom]

45. People are in DENIAL about Hillary. They are livin in the 90s

remembering the "good old days". :eyes:

Well, the 90s weren't good for my family and I so I don't share the "love fest" for the Clintons. That's why I can see them CLEARLY for what they really are while others are blinded by them. The truth of the matter is that Bill & Hillary are nothing but DINOs! Their lies, b.s., and hypocrisy make me sick! :puke:

People need to WAKE the F UP about them or otherwise we might just see Hillary in office pulling the same shit as ole George and the rest of his thugs. And to those who don't believe it-just what of true importance has Hillary stood up for against * & his thugs lately or ever?

Answer: Exactly NOTHING! :grr: