I am an Israeli citizen

[sabra]

I am an Israeli citizen. Actually I have dual citizenship (US and Israel). My screen name represents me as an Israeli citizen. A sabra, is a cactus like fruit which is prickly and rough externally, but sweet inside. Hence anyone who is born in Israel is called a "sabra", as it represents Israelis resiliency.

What is happening now is very troubling to me, on many levels. First of all people are dying, and that's just awful. Second, my grandmothers town has been hit by rocket attacks, and the affects me at a very emotional level. Third, I am concerned that the country will continue to be pushed to the "right", which means a more military agenda.

Many Israelis don't want this, they want peace. However, as you well know, terror is a major factor when comes to politics. When a politician promises to stop terror attacks, the citizens tend to listen (sounds familiar?). In the early 90's things were promising, but after the assassination of PM Rabin, many believe much was lost.

I see certain posts in DU, that bother me, but on the flip side I also understand them. I believe that through communication, knowledge is born. I just wish our current world leaders would follow that philosophy.

peace.

[LiberalVoice]

1. Peace to you aswell Sabra.

Thanks for posting this.

[Slaughtermeyer]

2. Understand the Israeli peace movement

To get a better understanding of the Israeli peace movement, go to:
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en

[jsamuel]

3. "I believe that through communication, knowledge is born."

Thanks, that's all I ask.

I hope your grandmother is alright.

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. Well said, and recommended, sabra...

Your concerns are my own concerns. I can only hope somebody is out there listening.

[ewagner]

5. Great post

Given your particular circumstances, that is a wonderfully rational post....

Peace to you my friend... :hi:

[mike_c]

6. work for peace....

I was once a staunch supporter of Israel, but no longer.

[Ken Burch]

73. well,support 'em or not, the Israelis ain't going away.

Probably the best we can hope for is a real two-state solution.

I guess what I'm saying is that antizionism isn't anymore realistic than fighting for Greater Israel.

The solution needs to be compromise and reconciliation.

[PurpleChez]

87. My wife, who is Jewish, said last night that she loves the IDEA of Israel

but that the reality is disgusting. And that pretty much sums it up for me, too. Even when I was a kid my sympathies were with the palestinians displaced at gunpoint by israeli "settlers," and I find it disgusting that the supposedly secular gov't of modern israel is the tool of right wing religious zealots (perhaps even moreso than our own!) and as such carries out unconscionable racial and sexual discrimination (for instance, forbidding women from carrying the Torah at the Western Wall). Israel has been using kidnapping as a foriegn policy tool for years, but when two of their own were kidnapped they raised holy hell and started to destroy an entire country. Certainly Israel is no worse than many other countries in these regards, but neither is it any better, and it is frustrating that any discussion of Israel's shortcomings will quite possibly get a person labeled as an anti-semite, a holocaust-denier, or worse. I'm pro-israel insofar as I support the right of people in all nations to be safe and secure, but we had to stop attending synagogue because we couldn't stomach the unquestioning support (even among known lefties) for each and every Israeli action and policy along with the assumption/insistance that all "good jews" should feel the same.

[zanne]

91. I wish you had started a new thread for this subject.

You really get to the heart of the matter and I'd like to hear more opinions about this. Your wife hit the nail on the head. I, too, love the "idea" of Israel and I wish Israel could exist as a true democratic country, not a theocracy. Religious movements always go too far and right-wing politicians take advantage of that. I believe that Jews have the right to a homeland where they can practice their religion openly. The Holocaust did happen and from the beginning of time, Jews have been driven out of whatever land they inhabited. We don't have to go far to see what a mixture of government and religion brings out in people; we're going through something similar in this country. I love the idea of Israel and I love the idea of the USA.

[Mandate My Ass]

7. It must be very difficult

Thanks for an honest and inspiring post and for even making an attempt to understand those posts that trouble and offend you. We could use more of that here on DU and in our government. Frustrations are running high.

Good luck to your grandmother. I hope the whole mess stops soon and people learn to leave each other alone or work out their grievances in a more productive way.

[BurtWorm]

8. Shalom, sabra.

:hi:

I hope your grandmother stays safe.

[katinmn]

9. Peace to you as well, Sabra!

Civil discussion is a very good thing. The discussion about ME policy is long overdue. Too bad it took this crisis to finally open the door to widespread discussion.

We need artful diplomacy from all sides.

Right now, peacemakers don't have a seat at the power table.

[Totally Committed]

10. And, peace to you, too, sabra.

I have many friends in the Middle East. To say I am troubled by the current events is an understatement, so I can't begin to imagine how you must feel. My heart goes out to you. As these horrible days unfold, I will keep you in my thoughts, and wish you and your family in the region peace and protection.

TC

[yardwork]

11. Thank you for this post. My thoughts are with you and your family.

As individuals, we can't control our governments. All we can do is speak out when we believe that they are doing wrong. I'm a U.S. citizen but I disagree with just about everything "my" government is doing.

The Israeli/Palestinian issue is extremely complex. There are no easy answers.

I am certain that bushco's poor global leadership has exacerbated the situation - bushco makes everything worse everywhere.

[marmar]

12. Thanks for tempering emotion with reason...

Something that's been lacking in these constant DU flamefests (from both sides) on this topic. Peace to you...and (one day, hopefully) peace to the world.

[Tom Joad]

13. Israel should negotiate, not send terror to the people of Lebanon and

Gaza.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. The Israeli adventure into Lebanon is short-sighted, at best.

IMO, with this, and other actions, they have removed any chance for "moderate" governments to have a voice by leaving a black/white alternative to the people of the Middle-East. The American/Israeli occupiers or the Jihadists.

In the long run, as the conflicts contiue and grow even more violent the dwindling support for Israel and the chance for an acceptable (if not totally peaceful resolution) will be lost.

I have no quarrel with Israel attempting to protect it's own people. Unfortunately, the methods used against Hezbullah and Hamas offer nothing that will sustain that protection, or resolve the conflicts.

Thanks for the post.

[EVDebs]

15. I see no 'solution' except a continued fight along with...

the creation of a 'no man's land' surrounding Israel. And if worse comes to worse, Israel may have to resort to blocking the Strait of Hormuz and/or taking out the world's oil facilities itself. Oil is what is funding the jihad; without oil there would be less incentive to blame Jews (in Israel or out) for their problems. This would preclude Iran's nuclear ambitions being that ANY WMD is something they're looking into. I'm refering to the UN's Arab Human Rights reports ongoing from the '90s, and they are thoroughly ignored in that part of the world since it's easier to point at Israel for all problems in the ME.

This puts Israel's longterm survival goals in contradiction with longterm US goals of sustaining Saudis (and the Iranians indirectly) through propping up the world's oil-based economy. Using the Lester Brown Plan B 2.0 timeline we've all got until around 2031 just to get our worldwide act together and get away from oil entirely; Al Gore's thesis in the movie An Incovenient Truth says the same thing, paraphrased "we have only a few years to act".

I see zinc air fuel cells and all kinds of other non-oil renewable fuel system alternatives, plus conservation. Combined, this 'green' movement should be something that both Dems and right-thinking conservatives can agree upon. I can see presenting this argument even to a Cal Thomas or a Pat Buchanan and getting a nod in response.

Want to call their bluffs, sabra ? Have Israel sponsor ways to get off of oil and be a leader in that movement. This will heap coals upon the heads of your enemies, so to speak. You can threaten to 'take out' the oilfields and refineries but just pointing out to your enemies that the oil is GONE in a few years...theirs and their children's lifetimes...and also point out their growing population's (Egypt's for example) are projected to grow TOO MUCH for their land's sustainability...well, they might not like the messenger but you can really hammer away at their fate which is assured.

Romans 12:19-21 NIV) Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. {20} On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." {21} Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

http://www.ucmpage.org/jwarrene/messages/whyenemy.html


All doable without firing a shot. In any event, good luck sabra.

[rman]

21. "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good"

now that's good advice

[EVDebs]

25. The best thing Israelis and US Jewry can do is promote non-oil futures

for us all. I see this as a golden opportunity and p.r. coup with Zinc Air Fuel Cells, hybrids (both electric plugins and dual use w/ICEs temporarily), and all the alternatives an aroused liberal Christian and ecumenical based group-for-peace can muster.

Even Muslims know that the oil won't last forever. Then what ? If Iran were serious about its nuke program they'd let the Russians process the spent fuel and any 'crisis' would be over, but we all know it's about building a useless bomb that will end up causing their own destruction instead.

It's about choosing wisely. In the end, most of these Muslim nations know they don't have technology nor the ability to do without the oil that is propping up the existing "satanic" (corporate) world system.

[MaraJade]

80. Agree. . .

Over $100 million in Iranian oil dollars have funded the Hezbollah nightmare so far. Working to
increase the use of alternatives would stop this.

Just think. . .every gallon of middle-eastern-origin gasoline may fuel our vehicles, but it also
fuels the worldwide advancement of terror.

[still_one]

16. you are much more tolerant than I am

I see posts that question whether American Jews put Israel before the U.S. just because some support Israel

I see posts that call for the destruction of Israel, with statements that if only 1948 never occurred we wouldn't have this problem

A few days ago there was a thread where a poster tried to elicit a response by equating that the Holocaust was more merciful than what Israel is doing, and then to threaten people, to incit even more animosity. What was more amazing was some of the responses to that original post

DU has opened my eyes to something I had thought was gone in the 50's in this country

I pray your family is safe, and that my daughter's friends are also safe, but the hate that has been perpetrated on some of the threads here have left a mark on me that will NOT be forgotten.

Never again, means just what it says NEVER AGAIN

[northzax]

27. and on the flip side

I see posts encouraging the collective guilt of Lebanese for the actions of a few. so it works both ways. how much should Lebanese pay for the sins incurred on Jews in the past millenia?

and does the need to prevent NEVER AGAIN (which is a worthy and neccesary goal) allow for the use of infettered force against another people? I think not. Frankly, there are two real ways to end the Hezbollah problem in Lebanon. One: eliminate Lebanon, we're talking flatten and salt the earth, tres biblical; second work to eliminate the devastating inequities that lead a larger proportion of people to acecpt violence and hate as the only way out of their pathetic lives. you cannot successfully respond to grass-roots terrorism with broad brush violence, it simply doesn't work in the long run. (you can, of course, respond to state sponsored terrorism with violence, as was done in Libya, Afghanistan and others; and you can respond to group-based terror with surgical violence, as was done to Black November) When a group has the support of the local population, you cannot root it out without destroying the local population, so the best way to deal with it, historically, has been to use the carrot and stick approach, not just the stick. Think of the two major terorrist groups, deeply rooted in their communities, that have been basically defanged in the past decade (ETA and IRA). Both were nationalist groups based in communities, both weathered attacks on the communities from the targeted nations. Both began to fail as economic prosperity and development lifted their home communities out of desperation. Finally, both laid down their arms, not in reponse to an attack, but in response to reduced support from their own communities. (oh, and both had support from Syria and Iran as well)

obviously, it's not a straight parallel to Hezbollah, but it can serve as a valuable lesson. When you have nothing to lose, and cannot perceive that you have anything to gain, it becomes easier to support crime and terror, as a general rule. it does not excuse it, only explains it. There will always be murderous assholes, but they tend to recruit followers more successfully through desperation (you don't see a lot of violent street gangs in Beverly Hills, after all.)

it is always tempting, and easy, to respond to violence with violence, and some is always appropriate. But if I were running Israel (or the US, or the EU, whatever) I would get together with the other states involved (the EU, the US, and the like) and start pouring real money into Lebanon. Build roads, schools, housing, factories, whatever. rebuild Beirut to the glories of old. crack down on violence, of course, and punish anyone directly involved in terror, but make your average, everyday Lebanese Citizen choose between a life of violence and death, and a life of work and family. Show them, (they already know) that Syria offers only bombs and guns, while we can offer them bread and wine. I don't think anyone would be really all that suprised by how many people pick the bread and wine. It may well take 20 years, but the option is another 50 years of war.

[still_one]

37. you missed the entire point of my comments

when there are threads questioning if American Jews are more loyal to Israel than the U.S. there is something very wrong

[MaraJade]

76. But in the meantime. . .

Israel cannot afford the luxury of waiting right now.

I agree with you, but first things first. Terrorists who use the "Bread and Circuses" method
of plying the populace with aid in order to curry favor and gain physical and political footholds
from which attacks may be launched MUST BE NEUTRALIZED. There is simply no other choice.

Only after those terrorists are eliminated, can peace be negotiated. Terrorist groups like Hamas
and Hezbollah want nothing less than destruction; the destruction of Israel. While there might be
racist people (God forbid, even on this list) who would be happy to see Israel destroyed, I certainly
do not. I do not believe that the Earth would be better off without the Nation of Israel. Don't get me wrong. I am not a religious fanatic. However, I do have enough sense to know that one of the
greatest stablizing influences in the Middle East is Israel. What do people think would happen if
Israel is eliminated. Peace will CERTAINLY NOT be what happens.

But the Israelis must get the monkey of "one hundred rockets a day" off their backs. Once the
Hezbollah (non-elected by anyone at all)-so-called government unto itself is eliminated, then
peace can be properly negotiated.

As for those who think that the Holocaust "was merciful," what can I say? There are nutters and
racists still in the United States, and sadly and sorrowfully, some lurk even here. What a sorry
disgrace!

This is proof-positive that the civil rights movement is
not over and that a mountain of work remains for every honest person.

By the way. . .I am black. . .not Jewish.

[eridani]

86. Speaking of "surgical attacks"--

--the Israelis used to be very good at this. Entebbe, taking out the Black September perps, etc. Whythefuck have they given up on this and taken on the indiscriminate reprisal methods that gave us Guernica, Oradour, Lidice and Fallujah?

[zoff]

94. Modus Operandi ?

Hezbollah clearly understand how to develop grassroots support. Their social programs and all manner of aid to Lebanese have been one heckuva bread and circus show. Through social programs etc etc, it holds sway over a populace. How dare you bite the hand that feeds you. But what do you call a terror group that tries to transform itself into a legitimate part of society via humanitarian deeds, but at the same time, arms itself to the teeth? (sounds familiar?)

Nevertheless, using your economic argument, could it be, that prosperity was finally reaching the average Lebanese citizen so much so as to threaten what Hezbollah had to offer? with all the positive economic news in Lebanon, Hezbollah's message was getting lost. Hezbollah knew full well, that with the right wing dominating Israeli and American politics, that the Jewish State could be easily provoked into acts which would cause ALL of Lebanon to despise Israel yet once again. Like any good fire, that idea of hating Jews (or anyone for that matter) has to be stoked, and fed. What better way than with a destroyed nation and hundreds if not thousands of dead innocents. There ALWAYS has to be a bad guy, theres always gotta be a fight somewhere. That's the way our leaders want the world to work.

[proud patriot]

32. I will continue to pray for Peace

:hug:

[eridani]

85. Who is calling for the destruction of Israel?

It's very true that if 1948 hadn't occurred, we wouldn't have the problem. However, at the present there is no place else for Israelis to go, so we are going to have to have a two state solution of some sort. Advocating that is hardly "calling for the destruction of Israel."

The majority of Palestinians approve the Prisoner Document. Only a minority of Hamas hardliners disapprove. If Abbas had been able to force Hamas to agree to a referendum on the subject, he would have won handily.

[femrap]

17. Sabra....keep speaking about Peace.

We are the Majority. Those who cry for war are mentally sick.

Are Women in Black still working in Israel and Palestine?

[kpete]

18. rough on the outside - sweet on the inside

Because of your Dual-Citizenship, your opinion is very valuable.

There is SO much bullshit to sift through.

I agree with you that after the assassination of PM Rabin much was lost.

The world has lost so many of its best people due to violence.


I wish for the safety of your loved ones in Israel and I stand beside you in hoping that world leaders (obviously NOT this admin) will learn that COMMUNICATION brings knowledge.

[jarnocan]

19. you sound very thoughtful

I hope people like you continue a dialog, and to do as much as you can to promote a (as much as possible) just peace. Do you like this site; http://www.tikkun.org/ ?
http://sabbah.biz/mt/ also could you bring your self to have a meaningful dailog with this blogger? I think he tries to be fair minded, He is a Muslim living in the mid east-so his perspective is somwewhat differnet but also knowledgeable. He also has interesting links on his blog.

[peacetalksforall]

20. Truth hurts. Most of us in this country know truth-hurt on private and

professional levels. Knowing the truth that your own government has been taken over by corporate-military-baron-reverend/rabbi organizations hurts. Being against any mortal or psychological hurt to the child is agonizing when discovering the total disregard and contempt for children and their parents by this joint corp-mil-baron-rev/rab group.

It hurts knowing that there isn't any difference between the US and Israel. Seeds of destruction have been laid out by those from Israel and the US who rule us. They believe that they are going to in. They have invested in a win. We are in their way.

Thanks for sharing, sabra.

[porphyrian]

22. Yea for communication. - n/t

[malaise]

23. Lovely post n/t

[Virginia Dare]

24. I don't support my government (U.S.) in their thirst for war...

I'm sure there are many Israelis who feel the same.

[Libby2]

26. Peace to you too.

Peace to all of us, we so desperately need it. :grouphug:

[DeepModem Mom]

28. Another wish for peace, sabra, and a thank-you for your work...

here at DU.

[KamaAina]

29. Which is your preferred Israeli political party?

Which one do you feel offers the best chance at a just peace? Are there any individual leaders who seem promising?

[Spazito]

30. A beautiful, heartfelt post

Thank you, sabra.

peace

[K8-EEE]

31. Hi Sabra!

I am very upset with the Israeli and US governments right now, as I think they are benefitting from/using/and actually promoting what they call "terrorism."

In no way do I feel anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, OR anti-American!! PRO PEOPLE AND PRO PEACE...thanks for understanding and hope your grandmother and all in her town stay safe.

PEACE!

[Solly Mack]

33. l'chaim, sabra

[Skidmore]

34. Thank you for your post, Sabra. I know how hard it is to sort

through the normal reactions to living with war up close and personal. It says much about you as a person that you are able and willing to see beyond the rhetoric. I've come to the conclusion that all of us in the who are like minded when it comes to wanting peace just need to stand up and shout the warmongers down. Trouble is that that those who want peace tend to avoid shouting. The time is right for us all to shout them down and make way for peace in the world. This world needs to heal.

[daydreamer]

35. What bothers me is that majority of the Israeli citizens are immigrants.

They came and kicked out millions of the indigenous Arab people. So I can understand why there are fighters like PLO and Hezbollah. I don't agree with Hezbollah because I think they need the accept the results of wars and move on, instead of fighting a lost fight. But I can understand why they came from.

[bemildred]

36. Peace be unto you. I hope your grandmother remains well.

And well said. Hate gets you nowhere. Understanding offers hope.

[QuettaKid]

38. Thanks for posting this Sabra.

we really do need to see more thoughts like these. The enemy of DU should be the bush/cheney cabal, not each other.

[SammyBlue]

39. Hopefully, Hezbollah will be dealt with for lobbing rockets at your

grandmother's town and each one of them will be brought to justice or erased.

Shalom from an American Jew. Keep the faith!

[chimpymustgo]

53. Erased? God help you.

:puke:

[itzamirakul]

40. Sabra, I remember that name from Michner's book, "The Source."

I remember that he made the women soldiers the "Sabra," and he portrayed them as heroic and strong.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, so I wrote this post to let you know that just because I disagree with Israel's actions in Lebanon that does not make me hate all Israelis or all Jews wherever they may live. In fact, I don't "hate" any of them, Israelis or Hezbollah, but some of their leaders make me pretty damned mad. Nor does it mean that I necessarily want "Hezbolla" to win.

I really want to see EVERYONE win.

I just want to see peace but if I see something that seems unfair, I am going to speak out against it and that is what my posts have mainly been aimed at. What I see as Unfairness in the treatment of the citizens of Lebanon. And just for the record, I do not agree with the suicide bombers that have caused pain and death in Israel, either.

This dual citizenship thing bothers me...but it is not just American/Israeli, but with other countries as well. I have friends who have dual citizenship with Columbia, South America and also the island of St. Maarten. I just don't understand how people can divide up their loyalty that way. 100% of my loyalty belongs to America. How can anyone with dual citizenship feel that way? Perhaps you can help me see it in another perspective, because believe me, I am open to learning something new.

Edit for clarity

[mom cat]

41. Thanks so much for your touching post. I am so proud of all the resisters

of violence. It is so easy to grab for a secutity blanket instead of doing the hard work of making peace. Hope your grandmother will be OK and that both sides will have a cease fire soon. :hug:

[Bluebear]

42. Shalom, Sabra

'I believe that through communication, knowledge is born.' :toast:

[Vidar]

43. Well said, Sabra.

[AntiFascist]

44. Thank you for your thoughtful post, we need more of those....

The worst thing for Israel would be for the violence to spiral out of control. I also feel that it is very important to distinguish the average Israeli point of view from the American point of view on this.

[mogster]

45. Glad to hear that you are an Israeli citizen.

And glad you're here :-)

[Encore]

46. you'll live...

[lonestarnot]

47. Peace fruity cactus!

[Amonester]

48. I also want a peaceful and wealth-sharing world based on just

laws and respect for every human being who's not a criminal (w/th nuances), including in Israel, and everywhere else on this - increasingly - fragile planet.

Allow me to thank you for posting this.

We will never give up working for that. No matter how difficult that "job" may seem to be, you have friends who, like you, work for peace using peaceful means in every country, and we will never let anyone down.

We will never give up as long as we live.

Peace, pax, paix, sabra. :loveya:



War!! Huh! Huh?
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing!
Say it again!

[fooj]

49. I wish you peace, Sabra.

Hell, for that matter I wish peace for all mankind.

You are absolutely correct when you state that communication and dialogue is key. I hope for all of our sakes that someone grabs a clue.

Thanks for sharing your honest feelings with us.
:hug:

[KitSileya]

50. I hope your family is ok.

I know that in my posts these past few days I've come down on the side of the Lebanese, but that doesn't mean that I think the Hizbollah aren't wrong in their bombing of Israel. All bombing should stop - civilians are dying on both sides. Any death is a death too much, whether Lebanese or Israeli.

I'll keep you and your family in my prayers.

[Jax]

51. Thoughtful post sabra

You are one of the voices on DU that are important to me, that I count on for reliable information and I most humbly thank you for all you efforts here on these forums. Your family and their safety are in my thoughts. as are all who are facing this horror and loss of life on all sides.

Honestly, I loathe the leadership of Israel right now just as much as I loathe the leadership here in the US. The rightward military tilt has become a 90 degree list in both countries, about to go all the way over.

Communication seems not to be a part of their vocabulary, nor does listening.

Peace...it has to come.

[savemefromdumbya]

52. Rabin

yes Israel is ruled by unhelpful politicians which make matters worse. Shalom Achshav

[wizstars]

54. All we are saying....

...is give peace a chance.

Shalom, sabra Hope your grandmother is okay. She (and all others in the middle east will be in my prayers).

[ninkasi]

55. Peace to you, Sabra

And thank you for sharing your story. I pray that your grandmother is safe. The truth is that there is more than enough to blame on all sides. No nation, or organization, can claim to be guiltless. The pain, like the guilt, can be claimed by all involved. I don't know what the solution is, but if everybody would stop the shooting right now, perhaps we could find a way to live together in harmony.

The ones who agitate for war, and bloodshed, are the ones who are in the wrong, and they come from every country involved. Sabra, again, thank you. Peace, indeed, is what we most desire.

[wordpix2]

56. Thank you, Sabra and the best to your family and friends in Israel

:thumbsup: :hi:

[Gasping4Truth]

57. What do you mean with "peace"

I think you're a very reasonable and well-meaning person.
But what do you mean with "peace" specifically?

Israel is a small country with no unlimited supply of fertile ground.
In order to create the nation, a lot of people have been displaced and a lot of others have taken their place.

If it's up to you, are the Palestinians living in refugee camps allowed to return home?
Should the stolen land be returned to the displaced people?
Even if this means giving up your way of life?
Or giving up your home?

[democrank]

58. Peace, Sabra.

Peace for everyone.

[tom_paine]

59. What concerns me most is the massive aerial civilian bombardment

I can understand the need for Israel to stop the rocket attacks. But the levelling of Beirut is a disgrace. Firing on the UN, firing on ambulances.

I would almost Israel sent in a ground invasion/punitive expedition to Southern Lebanon, if it would mean lowering the death toll of innocents.

I don't know the answer but something is very skewed and wrong with the Israeli response. Are they listening to poison whispered by Busheviks? I think they are.

It is a Faustian deal they have made with the Imperial Family, and I think it goes all the way back to 2000, when the Busheviks sabotaged Clinton's last ditch effort in 2000 to broker a deal.

One more crime they pretty much perpetrated in daylight and got away scot-free.

Sigh. When did this country turn into a gold-plated Soviet Union?

[Cleita]

60. Lovely post Sabra.

Thank you. Warhawk minded right wingers aren't good for any nation as far as I'm concerned. I have a small hope that saner minds will stand up and say, "enough!" in this country as well as Israel.

[nevergiveup]

61. An Arab life

and an Israeli life are equally precious. I hope your grandmother remains safe.

[Straight Shooter]

62. You have always been one of my favorite DU'ers, Sabra.

My thoughts are with you. I have no wisdom as to a solution, but perhaps you and yours will find a way. Let your voices be heard above the clamor.

Peace.

[Catherine Vincent]

63. Peace to you too, Sabra!

And thank you for educating me on the meaning of your name! :hi:

[Kajsa]

64. Thank you, Sabra.

You are there and know first hand what is going on
in this terrible war.

Communication is the key to solving many problems.
I thank you for your excellent post and please be safe
and know that we are thinking of you!

:hug:

[Kajsa]

65. Kick!

This post far exceeds any of the speculative posts,here.

:kick:

I hope you and all your family stays safe.

[Erika]

66. The world needs peace, not bombs and more destruction

Hope you and yours are safe.

[demosincebirth]

67. Jews, in Israel, have been brave thoughout their history.

My hat is off to your people.

[Obamarama]

68. Shalom, Sabra. Your posts are always so intelligent and reasoned.

As I suspect you understand from previous posts I've made in the last few weeks, I am a citizen of Israel if only in my heart. I have lived there temporarily and visited relatives living there permanently several times. My uncles helped grow Israel into what it is today after the Holocaust.
I feel as much a part of Israel as I do France (where my mom's family was from pre-Holocaust), and as much as I do our own country. Sometimes having so many emotional allegiances isn't easy.

We share the same hopes for the world, and for Israel. May God will them to fruition.

[stop the bleeding]

69. Thank you

Peace:yourock:

[tlsmith1963]

70. The Past Few Days...

...have been tough for me because I like the Jewish people, but I am very troubled by what Israel has been doing. I can now see that the Arab people may be right about a few things. I still hate terrorism, though. The Arab people need to find a better, more constructive way to be heard. As for the Israeli attacks on the UN & the Red Cross, I suspect neocon involvement in that. They always say how much they hate the UN. They have never understood that the UN has to listen to the concerns of *all* of its' members, not just the US. If the UN only gave the US what it wanted, it would be a joke. I am so sick of the neocon bullies that have a stranglehold over my country. I want them gone.

Tammy

[NNadir]

71. Thank you for existing.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

72. So are you saying that most Israelis do not support the current

incursion into Lebanon against Hezballa?

[smacky44]

74. Thanks for your post. May your family be safe.

[Mike Nelson]

75. Great Post...

I wish this death and destruction would stop, but I see it won't... years, decades of endless hate. It's so useless... I feel so bad for all the people who have & will lose homes & lives. I wish we had someone who could help, instead of Bush.

[autorank]

77. K&R. Sabra, I'm a big fan of your posting on DU. I fully sympathize

with you. It takes two to tango over there. I don't see anyone wrapped in the cloak of Gandhi or Martin Luther King. I see a lot of hate and fear on both sides. It is a shame, especially when the "honest broker" as the USA was called in the past is sitting in the audience stuffing popcorn in its face. The behavior of the WH and the lack of imagination on the part of many leaders is dispiriting. This is particularly tragic when the nation with the greatest potential to make a real alliance for prosperity and progress, Lebanon, is bullied by a bunch of aspiring militarists on a low budget.

I hope that things calm down and there is some help from the outside. It's clearly needed.

You're one of the very best in my book.

[Rex]

78. Citizens just want to live and have a good life.

It's our crazy governments that seem to think life has no value. Stay safe and I hope this all ends soon. :(

[kentuck]

79. The Jewish people are beautiful people...

I cannot believe that the majority agree with Olmert and the present military attacks. But again, I could not believe that the majority of Americans agreed with Bush when he invaded Iraq... Time has a way of bringing things into focus. I'm sure the same will hold true for the people of Israel..

[Cascadian]

81. Shalom to you Sabra.

I sympathize with your situation and for the innocent people on all sides be it Israeli or Arab. Whenever something like this happens in the Middle East, I cannot help but think about the slain Israeli Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin. A man who strived to make peace in the region and paid his life for it. I cannot help but wonder how different things would have been had he not been assassinated.

I understand that there was a recent anti-war demonstration in Tel Aviv. I was encouraged to see such display of disapproval. My hope that things will eventually calm down for everyone's sake.


The insanity has to end at some point and still have hope it will.


John

[chill_wind]

82. Peace and thank you for this thread. Kick. nt

[struggle4progress]

83. May peace come to you and your family and your neighbors ...

.. of all religions and nationalities

[WildEyedLiberal]

84. Great post, and congrats on creating a CIVIL thread on this topic

There's actually some really good discussion in here; the kneejerkers and frothing fools seem to at least have the base decenecy to leave this one alone. K&R

[sueragingroz]

88. Well done

you made an excellent post that created a reasonable thread in the midst of all this that has a minimum of sub threads and battles about semantics.

[PurpleChez]

89. I wish safety for your grandmother, and for everyone on both sides.

[farmbo]

90. I also rue Rabin's untimely assassination by that rightwing nutjob

Itsak Rabin was a man of peace who's values had been tempered in war. Israel was never more respected in the world community than when Rabin was PM. His level head and stoic perseverance contrasted sharply with Arafat's cruel, bombastic rhetoric. His assassination by a Right wing nut job deprived Israel of its best chance for lasting peace. While a conspiracy was never demonstrated, his murder had the assassin's desired effect for rightwing Israelis.

As our country lost its way for many years after JFK was murdered, after Rabin's death, Israel placed its (false) hopes on a string of increasingly virulent rightwing Lakudites, culminating in this present day debacle.

He is greatly missed.

[KharmaTrain]

92. Kudos Sabra...Well Said

I've been to Israel and have seen different side of this issue than most. Being Jewish, I have had a lifelong battle against my faith (and those that believe it as being infaliable) and the political and military situation in Israel.

Much of what I see here on DU are "experts" purely based on a distorted American media picture. It was easy to feel sympathy for the Palestinians during the Intifada during the late 80s cause they learned how to play to the cameras and got a lot of good PR (including yours truly and many on the left here) from their almost "Ghandi-like" approach to a non-violent repsonse to a violent situation. That really wasn't the case...or if it was, it was transcendental as the ultimate goal of Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as Syria and many in the Arab world was for the total destruction of Israel. Nothing more, nothing less. The media here has portrayed Israel as being strong rather than in a constantly vulnerable situation...one that has created an interesting Israeli pysche and identity over the years.

I know many Sabras and admired their spirit in facing a dangerous world with a bit of a swagger. I could have applied for dual citizenship, but didn't, but I know many who did...including American Jews who went and served in the IDF.

When I attempt to discuss this issue with people I try to have them view it on a different scale. Imagine we're sitting here in downtown and just a short drive into the suburbs and that's where you have enemy missile aimed at you. Now how would you react? Israel...especially the Likud...have over-reacted but its in the filter of living in a society that had already faced near anailiation during the holocoust and now find themselves surrounded by hostile neighbors who maintain their power by instigating a never-ending war of attrition with Israel.

Thanks for all your posts and shalom.

[GOPFighter]

93. Conflicted

What I find most dispiriting is that fact that as things stand today, this cycle of terrorism and retaliation and bombing and killing of civilians is going to go on FOREVER. Only diplomacy will ever end it, and that seems as impossible today as it did 30-40 years ago. Only the arms merchants all over the world are rejoicing (rather than fighting each other, wouldn't it be nice if the people of the world unleashed their fury upon these merchants of death?).

[NotGivingUp]

95. We need more people like you, sabra!

[ulysses]

96. peace to you as well, sabra.

I think we missed out on a lot when Rabin was killed, yes.