True or False

[porphyrian]

There is no subject that cannot eventually be understood by someone if it is conveyed in a mutually-understood language. True or false?

[sinkingfeeling]

1. I think it's true, but might add that it takes mutual respect as well.

[porphyrian]

11. Good point. I'm not sure that's required to communicate...

...all ideas, but I can certainly think of a few where that is necessarily the case.

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. only if you add in the caveat "assuming the person learning

has an intrinsic intellectual capacity to understand it."

Meaning, as one goes down the IQ scale into mental retardation, or alzheimers, brain damage, or etc., for instance, the learning person's pool of possibly understandable subjects gets smaller and smaller and smaller.

And so, I was forced to vote "no" in your poll.

[Wonk]

6. also, if they don't have a deeply vested interest in not understanding. nt

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. You mean, "if they're not Republican"?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[porphyrian]

14. Heh, heh. - n/t

[porphyrian]

13. Another good point.

Very few things can be effectively learned by someone who is actively trying not to learn it.

[porphyrian]

12. That's fine, thanks for explaining it.

I've decided recently that explaining less gets more interesting responses and angles I wouldn't necessarily have thought of on my own.

[Ignoramus]

3. Let tigons be tigons

[ixion]

7. lol... nice one

:rofl:

[porphyrian]

15. Personally, I prefer ligers.

They're pretty much my favorite animal, bred for their skills in magic.

[Finder]

4. I chose true and parables are a good example, IMO. n/t

[porphyrian]

16. Right on. - n/t

[BOSSHOG]

5. Fuck with my head this early in the afternoon?

Ya mean if I talk shit to a dumbass conservative in a language he can understand, will he still think bush is an honest, christian, military hero all around great kinda human being?

I do appreciate this post Porphyrian, because it is officially time for an Ice Cold Budweiser.

[porphyrian]

17. Beer-thirty! Crack 'em if you got 'em. - n/t

[Vincardog]

8. It is impossible to wake a person pretending to be asleep.

[porphyrian]

19. If they're pretending, they're already awake.

Or are there various stages of wakefulness, like some cultures believe there are various stages of being dead?

[Vincardog]

44. Bingo

There is no subject that cannot eventually be understood by someone if it is conveyed in a mutually-understood language. True or false?

It can never be understood, no matter how clearly explained by someone who "Knows" but refuses to "UNDERSTAND".

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. because.

I mean, like really, it's so obvious. See? You know?
Like I said, well, see, I mean, really. What I mean, you see?

[porphyrian]

You're not in advertising, are you? - n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. law & art. does that count?

[porphyrian]

24. It can. - n/t

[Malikshah]

18. I just pooted

I looooveee TV!!!!

[porphyrian]

23. Did you know...

..."pooted" has five separate entries in UrbanDictionary.com?

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. "Someone" or "anyone"?

Perhaps there will always be at least one other person you can explain any subject to. But that doesn't mean you can explain it to everyone who understands that language.

[porphyrian]

25. Well, I said "someone..."

...but you raise an interesting point.

[longship]

22. Where's a rabbit with pancakes on its head when you need one?

:shrug:

[porphyrian]

26. Will Pitt had one for a while...

...maybe in the archives...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. False, I think

Although it's hard to be sure, I suspect that the outer reaches of mathematics and mathematical physics are simply beyond most humans, and perhaps beyond all humans. I imagine the same is true of certain of the more complicated reaches of philosophy, and other theoretical subjects, to some extent, too.

[porphyrian]

28. That's my first impulse as well, however...

...I wonder if there isn't a way to describe even these things, perhaps using metaphor or parable. I've had both string theory and the reason most physicists think it's bullshit explained to me in layman's terms, not that I can accurately recreate those conversations now. Thanks for thinking with us.

[Swamp Rat]

29. Who decides what is true or false?

Who defines truth?

[porphyrian]

30. Good questions.

My latest decision is that truth is relative to the observer. However, I think George Carlin said it best:

The following statement is true.

The preceeding statement was false.

[Swamp Rat]

42. George Carlin is a national treasure.

:)

[porphyrian]

43. He is at least in part responsible for my fondness of profanity.

Not that he would necessarily be proud of that or anything. However, he is to me what Richard Pryor was to many others, only less Black.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

33. Nobody.

An objective statement *is* either true or false; nobody gets to define it. People try and *discover* whether it is or not, but there's no way of being certain.

There's an important difference between that and the (absurd, in my view) postmodernist position that truth is "personal" or "relative" in some way. There's an immense difference between

"I think this statement is true, you think it's false, and there is no way of telling which of us is right"

and

"and therefor it is true for me but not for you" or similar.

There are few phrases that annoy me more than "this is my truth, tell me yours".

[porphyrian]

35. Perhaps your problem is really with the verb "to be."

Robert Anton Wilson has some books out, specifically "Quantum Psychology," that denounce the Aristotelean essentialism implicit in the use of that verb. It's a good mindfuck if nothing else, or should I say it seems like a good mindfuck to me?

Edit: It does little to illustrate the point of not using "to be" if I use it anyway.

[Swamp Rat]

41. Everybody

Objectivity is a construct.

:)

[deaniac21]

31. I'll bet you won't get a single true from an IT support person.

[porphyrian]

32. Ooo, an excellent point... - n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. Shaka, when the walls fell. n/t

[porphyrian]

36. Ah, the wisdom of serialized space opera. - n/t

[LSK]

37. false, there is this thing called a lie

And this other thing called lazyness where you do not check to see if the lie is true or not.

[porphyrian]

39. But if you understand the lie, the lie has still been conveyed as told.

I hadn't really considered the angle of the thought-conveyer being deceptive because it is contrary to the goal implicit in the sentence. Interesting.

[sutz12]

38. Had to vote false...you forgot denial, You know, that river in Egypt.

When someone is in denial, nothing flows.

[porphyrian]

40. You're wrong! No one's in denial!

Good point.