The "I word" Draws Applause: Surprise in Coronado

[G_j]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/6890

Surprise in Coronado

By Barbara Cummings

Janis Karpinski of Abu Ghraib fame or noteriety spoke tonight at the library in Coronado Ca. It is joked that Coronado has more Admirals per square foot than any other town in the US. Property is the highest per square foot than anywhere else in Ca. There are 2 huge military bases there, North Island Naval Air Station and Coronado Amphib Base.

The library was filled to capacity and more. The crowd was 90% over 55. Very few 20 and 30 somethings. Many senior military ret. Some with walkers and canes. A very conservative crowd, or so you would think.

I sat in the back putting stickers on my toy soldiers and getting baggies ready for any who wanted them. The audience was quiet and never interrupted Ms Karpinski. She spoke for 40 minutes and then offered to take questions. I just knew someone would blast her right away as she had nothing but distain for Bush, Rummy, Ricardo Sanchez and Geoffry Miller. Miller recently took the 5th and resigned his commission.

The second questioner was literally shaking with anger for Bush. He gave more of a raging statement than a question. Recounted the usual litany of offenses, ennumerated the outrages we all feel. He said the I word. I was watching and looking around, waiting for the boo-ing to start. Suddenly one person clapped, then a few more then almost the whole room! They clapped loud and long. I was absolutely astounded. Not one single person in the whole room stood for the Pres. The question and answer period went on for another half hour and still, no one challenged Ms Karpinski or tried to offer excuses for the military brass.

In Coronado! Their Dem club had only a dozen members when I was last there. And I know these wre locals beccause no one drives over the bridge at rush hour unless the freeway is closed. As I was giving out my baggies of soldiers, I got an invitation to come to their meeting on Saturday and talk about campcasey and individual activism. In Coronado, the reddest of all cities in the state! Something is happening!

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Janis Karpinksi Interview

By Doug Basham

http://www.dougbasham.com/JanisKarpinski.mp3

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. Holy Smoke! I spent time in Coronado in the mid-80s

and gather it has not changed much. This is quite an amazing story. Wow! Just wow.

[understandinglife]

2. K&R. I hope everyone reads this!!!!!

Peace.

[firefox]

3. Impeach the Chimperor, you had me at war criminal. nt

[CrazyOrangeCat]

4. That is excellent news! n/t

[sojourner]

5. holy smoke! thanks for posting!! k&r

[Grateful for Hope]

6. K&R

What excellent news!

I wish I could have been there.

[Sparkman]

7. IF your calculus is accurate, and I'm doubtful, then I'm proposing a poll

of the San Diego County Republicans, because that may just have been a rogue assembly? IF you have stumbled onto something, it warrants a survey. The family owned Orange County Register claims to have an editorial staff that opposed the war on Iraq, from the beginning, but I don't know the truth in that claim. But if they could be convinced to participate in the poll of San Diego County Republicanistas, it could back your calculus.
Here, adjoing San Diego County, in Orange County, no such simpathies have been detectable.
This is the county of Richard Nixon's Library in Yorba Linda, and his home there. This is the county of past reps Dana Rorbacher and William Dannemeyer and Bob Dornan.

[Cuauhtla]

8. Surprise in Coronado

Of all the places I've lived in the United States, Coronado was my favorite. Beautiful. I lived there in the 90s, when Bill Clinton would vacation at Larry Lawrence's place on the beach. Cool, easy-going, laid-back people mostly, even given all the retired Admirals.

I'm living in Ventura County now, and after the 2004 election, the Ventura Star published a detailed map of county results. Bush took the county, but Kerry took the city. I've googled a bit but haven't found a similar map of San Diego County. I'm curious about the results in Coronado.

[reality based]

9. I have a feeling, if Congress impeached and convicted

the little emperor, Evil Dick, and Rummy, that some Generals would personally show up at the White House and Pentagon with bayonets to escort the bums out of town just as soon as Chief "Justice" Roberts banged the gavel down on the verdict.

[Peace Patriot]

10. This reminds me of a pre-election story about the military establishment

in San Diego. A friend of mine had to spend some time in what she thought was a rightwing, Republican enclave--a retirement condo for military brass, foreign service and rich professionals, in San Diego (near Coronado). She was in residence there for various periods (circa pre-war--late 2002, early 2003--and later on, spring 2004). She is a very simpatico person, not confrontational, who likes to talk to all kinds of people, so she thought she would quietly suss them out about Bush's war, before the invasion. She was astounded at what she heard. In summary, it was this: "Bush is nuts!" And they meant literally nuts--insane. They were unanimously anti-Iraq war and anti-Bush. And these opinions did not alter during her various stays among them, over the following year.

This story has stuck with me through all the election fraud investigations. And I think that what it points to is that Republicans may have taken an equal or even greater hit of Bushite election fraud than Democrats. Where is the best place for unnoticeable switches of Kerry votes to Bush votes (untraceable and invisible in the Bushite-controlled new electronic voting systems)? Republican precincts and counties, of course.

And there is a very strange anomaly in California's election returns for 2004 that also points in this direction. Barbara Boxer won the state by a 20% margin, John Kerry by a 10% margin. Virtually the entire difference between them (between Boxer and Kerry) is to be found in Republican counties. This makes little sense, politically, and would seem to suggest that the Diebold central tabulators were shaving off votes for Kerry in Republican counties, and giving them to Bush, to help pad his national popular majority. (This odd voting pattern--support for lib Dem Boxer, but not for Kerry, in Republican counties--did not seem to correlate to voting method at the precinct level. It only correlated to Republican political control of the country. So it may be that the fraudsters used the central tabulators, in the confidence that Republican election officials would look the other way on any anomalous numbers--and/or that vote switches to Bush simply would not be noticed in Republican counties.)

Cliff Arnebeck (a Republican) in Ohio also felt that Republican voters for Kerry had been messed with. All in all, I think there's a pretty good case that a substantial percentage of Republican rank and file voters were disenfranchised in 2004--and did not vote for Bush.

Which brings me to the Karpinski story. It may be that we have been fooled, by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies and their distorted picture of American public opinion (in news and news commentary), and by our own prejudices and fears (especially by our fears), into UNDERESTIMATING the progressive views of our fellow Americans. It may be that this Karpinski audience had these views all along--or many of them did. And they were just silently suffering, like everybody else--ignored, marginalized, feeling isolated and alone (like they were the only ones). I think this is true, actually--that it's not so much of a change in opinion of Bush and Bush policy, as it is a change in feeling free to express your opinion (especially in Republican circles), and finding that, not only are you not alone, but most everybody else ALSO despises Bush and wants him ousted. And it looks to me like that's what a majority of us voted for. (I think Kerry won, nationally, by about a 5% margin, if all votes had been counted--including purged black voters--and he would have won by about 10%--and would have overcome the fraud--if he'd been more antiwar.)

[G_j]

12. your point about Republicans being stung

by election fraud also, is an important one.
I think it is highly probable.

[oasis]

14. Thanks for your eye-opening post. (eom)

[DemReadingDU]

16. Maybe Republicans culled votes for Bush from Kerry

everywhere...all states, all counties, all cities!

[Vidar]

11. Very touching. Thanks for posting.

[pat_k]

13. Time to Get It!!! -- Accustation and Punishment GRABS Angry White Males

Reasonable/rational folks (usually Dems) have long been hestitant to ACCUSE and PUNISH. We fix. We insure things won't happen in the future.

This is WHY Democrats are perceived as WEAK!

Standing Up, Accusing Perpetrators of Their Crimes and DEMANDING PUNISHMENT, is not just a moral imperative (if we don't, we are complicit), but it GRABS angry white males from across the polical spectrum.

Fixing it "next time" Does NOT evoke a powerful emotional. Emotion is a primary motivativator, rationality secondary. We evolved that way.

If our leaders want Folks Like Us AND the "GET EM! GET EM! folks, they just need to get angry and tell the TRUTH: Bush committed Crimes. Cheney committed Crimes. The criminals must be punished. They must be Impeached.

[samhsarah]

15. i used to be in the navy

had to drive over that bridge every day. I know what you're talking about. Knowing the people in that area, this is HUGH!!!!!

[TygrBright]

17. This does not surprise or shock me...

While reaching high rank in military service often predisposes people to more conservative views in many areas, what a lot of us are failing to remember is that MILITARY ADVENTURISM IS NOT A CONSERVATIVE IDEAL. And never has been. If anything, liberals have been *slightly* more tolerant of the notion of direct military "intervention" than conservatives. Conservatives have always favored the indirect "proxy war" approach, propping up rightwing dictators and subsidizing revolutions to topple leftist regimes. Behind the scenes covert ops-- yes. Putting grunts on the ground? HELL, NO!

Liberals, at least those who are not strictly pacifist, have been slightly more receptive to the *idea* of direct "police actions" to keep dictators from torture, massacre, and displacement of large civilian populations, especially if such actions could be executed in cooperation with other nations or the UN.

So these old bulls of the conservative front haven't "changed." They're still conservatives. It's the greedy lunatics in the Administration who DON'T GIVE A SHIT about "conservative" or "liberal" or any other ideology than "how much $$$$$ will this net me and my pals?" They pay lip service to various conservative ideas for two reasons: one is to keep the top off the cookie jar so they can continue looting, and the other is for the kicks it give them, the sick fucks, to watch people they've always despised getting the shaft.

These Admirals and retired military solons are just the REAL conservatives, who keep their eyes on the prize and an agenda that hasn't substantially changed in decades-- and that agenda has very little to do with abortion, gay marriage, etc. * & Co. are in the process of upsetting their nice freemarket applecart by hosing over America's ability to do business in an increasingly globalized economy and driving the country into unparalleled debt. I don't have much in common with them, but at least they're consistent.

If the neopuritan fanatics who are supporting these greedy nutjobs were REAL conservatives, too, they'd be just as angry and outraged. Unfortunately, they wouldn't know an unfavorable debt ratio from a dictionary.

frustratedly,
Bright

[kineneb]

18. similar to conversation w/ a Rotary dist. gov.

He was at our meeting yesterday for a special club event. During the meeting during a discussion about ethics, he mentioned that none of the current government members or indicted corporate heads had been Rotary members. Mind you, one of the rules of Rotary is no direct political advocacy; most members are business owners and tend to be Repubs. (My correction to the record here: Frist is a member.)

I made a comment to him outside after the meeting, and he told me that he is no longer a Repub.; that he had not left the party, the party had left him in 2000. He cited intrusions into personal life as one of his beefs. He still would not vote for a Dem. but would continue to vote for independents of various varieties. I told him my family was labor, but that I, too, wanted my Constitution back.

I thought this was rather interesting. The Rs are starting to lose their "base" with the small buisness owners over Constitutional matters.