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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:19 PM
Original message
The eight worst foods for you
Deep fried Snickers or Mars bars - This "snack" packs over 450 calories and about 30 grams of fat, and a king size will deliver more than 700 calories and 44 grams of fat. What's more disturbing is that some pubs plate them with a side of fries and call them lunch.

Shelf stable “creamers” – Water, sugar or corn syrup solids and partially hydrogenated oils make up this shelf-stable faux cream. Need we say more?

Pasteurized, processed cheese food - No, we don’t care how well they melt. These melty, spreadable, day-glo orange “cheeses” have to be labeled as “cheese food” because of the addition of preservatives and liquids. Yum.

Burger King Chicken Fries – A tiny amount of chicken with four layers of breading, deep-fried in soybean oil 3 ounces of “fries” with dipping sauce, come up to 340 calories and 24 grams of fat, as well as 1020 mg of sodium per serving.

Instant ramen noodles – Very high in both sodium and saturated fat On the plus side, there is little, if any sugar in these, though you’ll be reaching for something sweet to get the salt out of your mouth.

Movie theater popcorn – popped in coconut oil and topped with “butter," a large size has about 20 cups of popcorn and almost three days worth of saturated fat.

McDonald’s Sausage, Egg and Cheese McGriddle – only if you want to have over 50% of your recommended daily intake of fat, saturated fat and sodium in a 7 oz. (199 gm) sandwich.

Super sized soft drinks – Huge drinks, like the 52-ounce X-treme gulp at 7-11, when filled with sugary sodas, can pack away over 600 calories each!

http://www.slashfood.com/2006/01/16/slashfood-ate-8-worst-foods-you-can-eat
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Anything with trans fats...that shit'll kill ya
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
62. My town banned trans fats in restaurants years ago.
First in the country.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Wow! Whole Foods doesn't stock anything with trans-fats.
I was surprised to find that out. They don't advertise it. Also nothing in the store has bovine growth hormones.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #66
197. another reason to like whole foods
:thumbsup:

I wish we had one in my hometown :(
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #62
198. very cool. your town was definitely ahead of the curve n/t
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't eat any of that stuff...
I'm no health nut but that stuff is just not real food. Blech.:puke:
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. deep fried snickers bars?
Okay, I've lived in the South most of my life, so I'm familiar with the concept of, "honey, if you can't fry it, it ain't fit to eat," but who in the hell needs to deep-fry a friggin' candy bar? :crazy:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I don't know who thought it up, but
now I gotta try it! Damn.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:35 PM
Original message
before or after you try
glazed horseshit? 'Cause that's probably trendy somewhere, too. ;-)
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. It might be trendy somewhere, but it doesn't sound good!
Fried Snickers does. C'mon, admit it, it doesn't tug at your southern upbringing just a little bit?
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. not at all
If I'm going to fry something, it's gonna be peach pies.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. LOL! Fair enough! nt
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William Bloode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
110. Not even!
I'm Southern and i find the idea of a fried Snickers a bit tummy twisting. I like 'em frozen. ;)

This deep frying shit has gotten out of hand. Not to mention traditional souther cooking is not deep fried, but pan fried in an iron skillet. Deep frying is just more or less cutting a corner and making it much faster.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
99. Come to CA for deep fried Twinkies , too
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
127. Monsanto, maybe?
:shrug:
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foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
169. it appears to be a Scottish invention
The deep-fried Mars bar, served with a side order of fries, threatens to usurp the haggis as Scotland's best-known dish.

Worried public health experts, who investigated stories about the chocolate-covered caramel and nougat candy bars being deep-fried at Scottish fast food outlets, say the claims are not an urban myth.

The researchers discovered similarly bizarre examples of calorie-laden fast food cuisine, such as batter-fried ice cream, pizza, and pineapple rings.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:wGp0E4XtwnEJ:news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1227_041227_deep_fried_mars_bars.html+%22fried+candy%22&hl=en

Twenty-two percent of the shops said they provided the deep- fried version of the popular chocolate bar.
Ten sold between 50-200 bars each week, but 15 did admit they had health concerns about them.
Mars bars were not the only foods the Scots like submerged in hot oil.
The shops said customers had asked for deep fried sweets, Snickers, bananas, pineapple rings and even ice cream.

http://www.newstarget.com/003174.html
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Never heard of that one before either
They sound repulsive. ICK!
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
178. They've been around a long time, and are great
You guys must not hang out at Highland Games/Celtic Festivals much.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. LOL!
I've never heard of it either.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
70. Glad to agree with you guys
I thought maybe I was even further behind the times than i imagined having never heard of deep fried candy bars.
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. I should have read before I posted -- just said the same thing
It's a new one on me. LOL!
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
40. They're awfully good.
I have a deep-fried Milky Way every year at the State Fair. I figure one a year isn't going to do TOO much damage.

They batter it in a light flour-based batter that itself isn't sweet. So it kind of cuts down on the candy bar's sweetness. Then a little powdered sugar is sprinkled on top.

Just think hot fudge, hot caramel mixed together. Quite tasty. :)
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Oooo, where else can I get one?
And which state fair? Tell me Texas!
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. I think they sell 'em at most fairs now. I'm in Minnesota.
So I can't help ya there. ;-)
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
142. Ah Minnesota. Love their state fairs. Anything and everything on a stick
My fave Minnie fair food is the Mini Donuts....ohhhh, donuts....
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #142
160. Except for prostitutes.
Bit of a pity... just as unhealthy and yet they're not paraded around at the fair...
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. They have 'em at the State Fair in Dallas
c'mon down!
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #52
63. Um, that would be up, for me.
:-) Too long a wait, but it gives me something to look forward to!
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
158. Do you want to die by a Bush Armageddon...
Or a 12-pack of fried Snickers?

Yup, THAT's how I wanna go!
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soup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
43. 'Extreme fair food'


It may look like a corn dog, but that’s a Snickers bar getting the deep-fry treatment at the Florida State Fair.

By JANET K. KEELER, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published February 13, 2002

Olivia Orme and her merry band of fair cooks have brought something so decadent to the midway that it makes the footlong corn dog seem like diet food:

Battered and deep-fried candy bars.

Rub your eyes if you must and read it again. Battered and deep-fried candy bars. Milky Way and Snickers, to be exact. How over the top is that?

The candy bars are skewered on sturdy sticks -- it is the fair after all -- and then dipped in a sweet batter, something like funnel cake goo. Into hot vegetable oil they go, and round and round they twirl until golden brown. A dusting of powdered sugar, a few minutes of cooling and they are ready to eat.

Orme says her brother-in-law tells everyone that the deep-fried Milky Way tastes like melted chocolate chips and the Snickers like a brownie with nuts. Doggone if he's not right. The Milky Way's caramel and malt-flavored nougat center melts into the milk-chocolate coating so that when you bite into the fried concoction the center is a unified blend of the tastes. Likewise, the peanuts, peanut butter nougat and caramel of the Snickers bar. When the ingredients meld together, the eater is hard-pressed to identify it as a Snickers bar. It tastes that different. Boy, oh boy, are they good.<<
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/02/13/Taste/Extreme_fair_food.shtml
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
45. It's a state fair thing
They have deep fried Snickers, 3 Musketeers, and last year Twinkies.

The most I'll get when I go is a caramel apple, or if I'm feeling like hurling later, a turkey leg. That deep fried stuff is disgusting.

TlalocW
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
49. I've never heard of it either
First one on me too. :shrug: I've lived in the south forever so yeah.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. Typical fair food.
I've had it. It was ok, but nothing to write home about. The thing is, they use a very thick batter to keep it together in the deep fat fryer, so it's coated with this thick gluey coating. The chocolate does melt deliciously on the inside, but the batter on the outside didn't do much for me. If it had a thin, crispy coating -- like phyllo dough -- now THAT would rock.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
56. I had a fried Mars bar for "afters"
When I bought fish and chips in London. It was great! Not something you would have everyday... once every year or so is enough for this decadent delight:)

I think my great-grandma was right. Have a tiny dribble of REAL cream in your coffee, or milk. Have REAL cheese in small amounts. She said everything you eat should be real and not some scientists concoction. She lived to be three months shy of her 100th birthday and she ate real eggs for breakfast, with a couple of slices of bacon and real butter on her whole wheat toast and real cream in her coffee.
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RumpusCat Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
91. i agree: eat real foods
I think the 'lite' and 'diet' stuff is all pretty gross. I'd rather eat two real cookies than a plateful of Snackwells or whatever mutant fake-o cookies. I'd much rather have a smidge of real butter than a dollop of margarine.

However, I have to admit that I would like to give a deep-fried candy bar a try.... you only live once, right? :9
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mattomjoe Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. I've had them at the state fair
They're sinfully good :evilgrin:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
76. It's a carnival-type food.
Not unlike cotton candy or funnel cake
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Thirtieschild Donating Member (978 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. I tried funnel cake once
and lost it. Never, never, never again.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #86
199. It's good
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Brewman_Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
83. At the Renaissance Festival
last year, that was one of the new menu items. I just had to try one. Needless to say, I made that mistake only once.

Holy mega-fried sugar fit, Batman!
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #83
136. as everyone knows, deep-fried confectionaries were quite popular..
during the Renaissance. :P
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #136
171. Huzzah!
;-)
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
97. Scotland's contribution to world fast food
The deep-fried Mars Bar is thought to have originated in Stonehaven, in the north-east of Scotland.

Its existence may help account for the fact that parts of Scotland have the highest incidence of heart disease, cancer and strokes, the worst teeth and the lowest life expectancy in the developed world.

Attempts continue to try to rid Scotland of its unhealthy image.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/654750.stm


The first report of battered Mars bars being up for sale appeared in the Scottish Daily Record in August 1995.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4103415.stm
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #97
105. well, I suppose that's better
than deep-fried haggis. :puke:
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #105
117. Or boiled haggis,
... or sauted haggis, or baked haggis or ... haggis :)
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
107. I had one once, it was actually pretty good
It was one of those things I had heard about, and when I went to the county fair, they were selling them. I figured "what the hell", and ate one. It was pretty good, actually, although I certainly woudln't eat them very often at all.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
118. it sounds disgusting...
like deep fried TWINKIES!
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
126. The same people who deep-fry ice cream, too, I guess.
:shrug: The ice cream I can readily vouch for, but I've never had a deep-fried Snickers.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
130. The Radisson in Atlanta used to make it
topped with a scoop of ice cream.
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MellowOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
141. In the South
They fry everything, even fried ice cream.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
177. It's a Scottish thing, and they are yummo!
Crispy little packages of molten yummoness....
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
185. It's a Scottish thing...
One of the most popular desserts is a Deep Fried Mars Bar.

They also Deep Fry Sausages, which sounds even worse to me!
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
186. Skip this , it's a dupe
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 12:17 PM by JHB
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. we dont do any of it but the ramen noodles. kids love that
and are skinny as a kid should be, and exercises and are healthy, so i think i will let that go.

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democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Only add 1/3 of the 'flavor pack'. See if they like that.

I usually cook them, drain the water and shake on 1/4-1/3 of the packet. This was in college, 10 for $3.....
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catabryna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Wow... I forgot how expensive they used to be...
You can regularly get ramen now for 10 for $1. Heehee! And, I do the same as you do... I don't use the whole seasoning packet.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. must be a college thing. my husband does it just like that for the
boys,..... how he did in college. lol lol. i dont eat the stuff
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. The 'flavor packs' are nasty
I've never used them. Instead I use canned chicken broth and real herbs, spices and veggies.

Actually I don't eat the cheap ramen any longer, there are much better (and cheaper believe it or not) noodles out there. The Asian market is an amazing place.

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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Asian markets are neat.
But why do they always smell like petting zoos?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #36
55. Good question.. and I don't think I want to know the answer.
:)
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
77. I never identified it as such, but...you're right! :)
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
53. Yep, the NOODLES are fine!
I skip the flavor pack and toss in some veggies and a dash of soy sauce, which has sodium but ain't as onerous.
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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
84. Ah, but I disagree.
I think they're some of the unhealthiest noodles you can buy. That's where the saturated fat comes from, not the flavor powder.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #84
121. Really? Wow, I will have to check my labels...
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #53
179. Actually, they spray them with fattening oil
That's why they're so fattening -- I saw it on the Food Channel.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. My niece is raising her kids on that stuff.
Edited on Wed Jan-18-06 12:43 PM by cat_girl25
It really pains me to see that. Granted her kids are thin but there is no nutrition in those. I could see every now and then for a snack but I think she feeds this to them every other day as a meal. :(
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. hm......
extreme in anything is not a good thing
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. Same deal with Mac & Cheese
I know parents who feed their kids that crap 5 times a week. Hot dogs too.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #48
140. Sue me, but, as my pediatrician says...sometimes kids'll eat what
kids'll eat. I grew up on hot dogs and mac and cheese just about 5 nights a week. An occasional Ragu spaghetti dinner or meatloaf was thrown in, and I'm not fat, lethargic, diabetic or the holder of bad eating habits. I think we go too far sometimes. :hi:
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #140
153. i agree mrs. grumpy. taking kids off fat. oh such the fad not long ago
until they found out the little ones NEEDED the fat for brain growth. that never made sense to me to give little ones diets..... silliness. and kids go thru spell, doctors say they get plenty what they need and dont need much at all. and no food battles. i have always been easy with the kids and their respecting and listening to their body. sometimes they eat next to nothing. i never make them, or even make a deal, cause when they are hungry, they eat. they have no issue with foods. eat lots of good for them foods, but we allow yummy foods too. just all in moderation, and we have no battles.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
64. Thin doesn't always mean healthy and fat isn't always unhealthy
Losing weight is a sign of serious illness. Karen Carpenter died from being too thin.

Obese senior citizens live longer than thin senior citizens.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #64
162. I am very worried about a colleague of my wife's, a young
woman who was a little heavy but attractive. She roomed with a thin blonde woman her same age who is a marathon runner and a super energetic person. The result is that my wife's friend has almost quit eating entirely (a grapefruit for the whole work day?} and though she was once running with her thin (former) roommate now has no energy for that. Watch out who you room with! Watch out how little you eat!!
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #64
174. Not obese, but plump
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #174
187. You mean the senior citizens study? It said obese
"Plump" isn't a medical term. "Obese" is.

Obviously, they weren't talking about 600 pound people. That's as unhealthy as someone like Karen Carpenter who only weighed 80 lbs at her height. The problem is always in the extremes.
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #187
191. OK, plump isn't medical term
(I was thinking of pleasingly plumb) but overweight is.

What I've read indicated that overweight adults lived longer but obesity still carried higher risks.

Normal is defined as a BMI of about 19-24.0, overweight as 25 to 29.9 and obese starts at 30. Perhaps you are saying moderate obesity (30 to 34.9) would be included with the overweight in terms of health as opposed to with the severe and very severe obesity.
I have not read that.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #191
196. Moderate obesity was described in the study
Even regards the risks, they were only moderately enhanced. Obesity (except in the extreme) is no more "deadly" than slenderness is. On average, the most obese woman will still live longer than the thinnest men. Obese black women outlive slender black women. Fat people of all ethnicities live longer when diagnosed with cancer.

There are benefits to obesity, as well as detriments, all of which is anathema to the current control freaks in office, but these stats say what the stats say.

Even the most recent study still lumped all fat people in with diabetics and hypertensives in order to "prove" obesity deadly. Not all obese people (or even most obese people) are diabetic or hypertensive.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
51. I think I will throw my ramen noodles away now. nt
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
125. I had an Asian friend in school who made a fried ramen noodle dish
He cooked the ramen, then fried it in a pan and added various spices and veggies. It was DAMN GOOD! Wish I knew his recipe.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #125
131. that sounds excellent. hubby cooks enough chinese food, we
have all the stuff. i bet that would be so easy. i think i will give that a try. thanks
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #125
172. That sounds like an improvised version of yaki-soba
Here's how I make it:
Stir fry yaki-soba noodles (or pre-cooked ramen noodles if that's all that's availble) in a frying pan with a little bit of olive oil. Add a touch of Worcestershire sauce, then add some Pace (or home made) salsa and stir until done.

Japanese, on the other hand, will add cut up bits of Chinese cabbage, shiitake noodles, carrots, etc., instead of the salsa, but for some reason they don't like to add tomatoes.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #172
189. Mmmmm, thank you!
I will try that out today and see what happens :-) Sounds good already.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
139. I throw an egg in with the noodles and my kids love it.
:hi:
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #139
147. huh.... already cooked egg, egg in noodle of boiling
water..... frying noodles and then throwing egg while frying? curious
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #147
148. I boil the ramen noodles with a raw egg thrown in.
Edited on Wed Jan-18-06 09:00 PM by MrsGrumpy
:hi: Kind of makes an egg drop soup...with noodles.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #148
151. that is so interesting. thanks
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. In my humble opinion ...
Edited on Wed Jan-18-06 12:29 PM by Akoto
The key to good health is moderation, in eating as much as in other things.

I'd be lying if I claimed to have never eaten anything on the above list. The fact is, as far as I'm concerned, life is horribly dull if you don't sometimes enjoy things that aren't 'good' for you. That does NOT mean you should eat these things every single day, and certainly not multiple times in the same day.

I'm a hypochondriac, and I'd avoided the doctor for years until a couple of weeks ago. Finally went and I was pronounced to be in quite good health, and even 'slight' for my height. For me, I've just tried to eat moderately sized meals (no third helpings!) of things I enjoy, and I only go for fast food twice a week. Water is really important, too. People don't drink nearly enough of it.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. I'm more into moderated excessiveness, myself.
You know, where you live for three months on potato chips, pizza and Dr. Pepper, then for the next three you eat only whole grains, vegetables and legumes. ABout half the time I'm healthy and sexy, the other half I'm a sweaty beach ball!

Of course, I only visit the doctor at the end of the three healthy months, so she thinks I'm in perfect health! :rofl:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Shwew. Glad to see Snuffers cheese fries aren't on the list.
I used to think they were unhealthy.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. OOOH
JEEZ THEY ARE GOOD
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. dupe
Edited on Wed Jan-18-06 12:47 PM by Skittles
sorry
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
67. You just brought back some memories for me.
w/ bacon & extra ranch.

Snuffers was the only redeeming thing about Dallas.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
112. Is Snuffer's in Dallas/Plano? nt
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #112
159. Yes. When I lived there, they were on lower Greenville, and in Addison
I think it was Addison, around Belt Line and Marsh or Midway or something like that (It's been a long time). They have one in that shopping center on Northwest Highway and Preston now, I recently discovered. I hope I got the street names right, I haven't lived there in fifteen years. :-)
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #159
164. Bingo. Been there a few times when visiting the area.
And those cheese fries do rock.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #164
166. They rock, and they turn your arteries to stone, but
the loss of life is worth it! :-)
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. living is a 100% certain cause of death
There has never in all of human history been an exception, and the correlation is clear.

We should ban living.

We've evolved to eat almost everything. If you eat ANYTHING exclusively, including broccoli or water, you gonna die from some other thing that got resorbed out of your body.

We need variety, and moderation, and nothing by itself is going to kill you when eaten in moderation, so don't worry about it.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
60. Not living is a 100% certain cause of death
We are not cockroaches and can NOT eat almost anything. Simultaneously, we have created things which have never been part of the food chain - GM crops, HFCS, saccharine, trans fats, acrylamide. Add in BSE in beef, salmonella in chicken, mercury/PCBs in fish, etc and there is more reason than ever to pay attention to what you put in your body.

All good things in moderation -- and "good" is the key word.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #60
78. sorry I don't buy into food authoritarianism
actually, not sorry.

I wouldn't compare mercury and BSE to trans fats - that's alarmist and misleading. GM crops are not monolithic, saccharine is a MYTH that I will be happy to dismember for you, salmonella has always been around, etc.

I don't get the point of your post. I believe we agree - but just the same I'll lose as many years stressing over whether this sucrose molecule is the proper handed diastereomeric isomer as just eating the damn cookie. Just don't eat the whole bag.

We ARE cockroaches. The fact that you are here proves it (let me rephrase that :P); I mean, we will chew on bark and eat grass for water if that's what it takes to survive when we're hungry and thirsty and you can be absolutely certain your ancestors ate whatever was required to get you here.

We are evolved to survive minor amounts of food travail, and even the basic ideas behind hormesis are gaining greater acceptance in the medical community when it comes to addressing immune overstimulation and allergic reactions.

I refuse to stress about food. Hey, parsnips and parsley have been shown to cause actinic keratoses and even skin cancers on the hands of people who handle them a lot. Of course, you have to expose yourself to strong full spectrum UV frequently while handling parsley juice in amounts that no human would ever volunteer to do over a time frame that no human would ever do for it to happen. Parsnips good. Parsely good.

Even GM food, I am much more concerned with mule varieties than protein coat or sugar molecule allergen food reactions.

Stressing about food is for people who enjoy that kind of thing. And just remember, if you would rather not cook with butter, cream is a perfectly good substitute.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. High Fructose Corn Syrup
It's everywhere and it is making children enormous.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Yes it is.
I think it's addictive.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
82. no, overeating and lack of activity is making kids enormous
we need to suck it up and get to the heart of the problem.

If you take in more calories than you burn, you store them. Period. Also the longer you store your fat, the harder it is to get rid of.

If your kids are at home playing video games and eating whatever they want whenever they want and drinking soda all day long, diet or otherwise, they're going to be fat, regardless of whether you feed them an all organic diet or deep fried chocolate covered lard balls.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #82
183. We live in lard-ass America...
We are becoming progressively lazy, eat bad food and cry when we can't loose the weight.

Simple solution: eat less, exercise more.

However even with exercise, without a proper diet, no real health gains can be fully achieved.
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ok,
I'll give up the noodles and the fried Mars bars. I don't eat them anyway.

But the PC police better watch out for the rest.
:loveya: :donut:
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. LOL, I'm eating a Spam sandwich. Guess I'm OK.
Fried Spam with mayo on wheat. Yummmm
At least when I die there won't be any question as to why.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Just got back from France
where I had occasion to eat a pig foot, coated with bread crumbs and mustard and served with a side of fries cooked in PORK FAT!
It was delicious. Washed it down with a half bottle of the local wine.
Eat well, in moderation and stay away from processed cheese food.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. I plead guilty to the shelf stable "creamers". I love cream in my
coffee, but if I buy the real stuff, half of it goes bad before I use it up.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. Your forgot the worst offender...coming in at 2210 calories is....
The Blooming Onion from Outback.

Calories from Fat 1206 (52%)
Calories from Carbohydrate 964 (42%)
Calories from Protein 140 (6%)

http://www.calorieking.com/foods/food/carbs-calories-in-outback-steakhouse-aussie-tizers-bloomin-onion-w-dressing_Y2lkPTIxMDY5JmJpZD0xMzM1JmZpZD04ODk2MCZwYXI9.html
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
168. Yes, but who eats a whole one? We share!
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. Deep fried Snickers? Wow
I've never even heard of that. Who would look at a perfectly good candy bar and decide to dip it in hot lard anyway?
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Furthermore, how does it even stay together
and not melt into a gob of goo?

:shrug:

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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Not sure of exactly how it works, but ...
I've seen shows on the Food Network where deep-fried Snickers and Mars were made. Apparently, they're hugely popular in European pubs.

I believe they put it through a really thick batter before tossing it into super-hot oil. Because the oil's so hot, it cooks the outside batter quickly without totally melting the inside. It kind of gets locked in. Then they dust it with powdered sugar.

I've never had one myself, and I know it's like an anti-health bomb, but I know people who have. They say it's about the best damn thing they've ever tasted. :)
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ksilvas Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. Probably fried when their frozen.
This is the key to successfully deep frying
delicate or runny things. I used to be a cook. Think, deepfried ice cream.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
57. Do they freeze it first?
I had tempura ice cream in Japan years back, and the way they did it was freeze the ice cream so hard you could kill someone with it, and then put tempura batter on it and deep fry it.

Had to be bad for ya, but it did taste good...
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
69. It's a god-given miracle.
try one. you'll be a believer.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
98. The fried Mars bar I had in London
Was dipped in the same batter used for fish and fried in the same oil. I thought it would taste fishy, but no.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. The same kind of people that would deep fry a Twinkie
Cute article:
http://www.lightingthefuse.com/artman/publish/article_94.shtml

>>>>snip
As Americans, we've all probably found a Twinkie in our lunch box at one time or another. The Twinkie has inspired many jokes about its cream filling and seemingly unlimited lifespan.
The Web site www.twinkiesproject.com revels in the indestructibility of the Twinkie, showing what happens when you burn, drop, and irradiate the little sponges.
>>>>>snip
Anyway, as the legend goes, some genius at a New York restaurant deep-fried a Twinkie, customers loved it, and word got to the New York Times, which ran a story no one believed, because, you know, they make up a lot of things.
:rofl:
>>>>snip
CNN says you can sprinkle berries on the deep-fried Twinkie, but my guess is that any self-respecting fruit would throw itself into the deep frier before it would agree to associate with a glob of golden death.

The deep-fried Twinkie contains about 425 calories. Welcome to Flavor Country! Have two, Elvis!
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
129. Never heard of it. Sounds revolting. nt
nt
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. I thought the movie theater industry got smacked-down over popcorn
didn't they agree to switch to a different oil? I do wish they'd offer the low fat popcorn; I take my own low fat snacks to the theater
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. My wife sneaks in a bag of fat-free microwave popcorn...
I usually sneak in a couple of beers.

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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. we ladies get by with big bags
Edited on Wed Jan-18-06 12:52 PM by Skittles
I sneak water in too; I'm a movie buff and pack on the pounds if I eat movie fare every time
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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #33
190. it is also over priced
I only buy tickets at the movies
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
133. hahaha beers.
nice plan.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
154. You're naughty
But I must confess, I too have done the same thing ;)
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
193. I don't get butter on mine anymore
I haven't asked my nutritionist whether that means that I am being healthy or whether not getting butter is an ED (eating disorder) behavior.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
38. no wonder I feel like I have gained ten pounds
I went to two movies over the weekend and ate a lot of corn. :(
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
39. What If I Don't Agree?
I think a lot of this stuff is a tempest in a teapot. The problem in this country isn't which foods we eat, it's that we eat too damned much of it! Anything in moderation is acceptable, both nutritionally and dietetically. We just eat too much.

They're aren't 8 "worst foods". There are issues with people eating 8 times too much.

This is junk science and is predicated upon the notion that EVERYBODY eats too much of all this stuff. I admit i like Ramen noodles for lunch. Somehow, i don't have high blood sodium, don't have high cholorestrol, and i'm not overweight. I wonder how that happened, if i have one of the 8 worst foods almost every day.

Hmmmm.
The Professor
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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
54. I agree with you.
It's not that we can't eat "unhealthy" foods, it's that we've lost our sense of moderation.

I was recently reading the forums of a website about Japan (as I am planning a trip there). A Japanese person had posted a question along the lines of "I will be receiving guests from America very soon, and I'm wondering what I should serve for meals." Someone else replied, "Asian food is popular so you should have no problems. Serve LARGE portions, though. Many times larger than what's normal!"

That's a good way of observing how much we overeat. Look at dishes served in foreign restaraunts, even in pubs and stuff. The portions are bite-sized compared what we have daily in the States.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
58. I disagree with you professor
The problem is we eat too many food like things and not real food. Most of the stuff we eat is processed stuff made to taste and smell and look like real food, but it has a shelf life so it can be stored and shipped all over the nation. There are many things that are added now to reduce the cost of the 'food' that is having a marked effect on the population, one such ingredient is High Fructose Corn Syrup HFCS. HFCS is cheaper than sugar and is being used as a substitute in many products. But the stuff is a MAJOR cause of obesity.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. We Will Agree To Disagree
We eat too much. And, i would like you to think about one thing. If we start condemning all the food with HFCS, the cost of food goes up. That hurts the poor the most. You ok with that?
The Professor
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. I'm not okay with 'hurting' the poor, but...
the solution is to eat more natural foods. Buy vegies, fruits, and meats and cook more. This is less expensive than many processed foods. Of course time is precious now and many people choose not to spend it in the kitchen. And for those working 2 or 3 jobs there is not time for cooking. But health is the trade off. The solution for the poor is not to poison them, but find a way to provide good food.

I want to add that I agree that some of the people are eating too much, and way too much of the wrong things (fast food), but if go out to any restraunt, or just people watch on the street, you will see almost half the population is very over weight. That is not all from eating too much. It might be from eating out too much and eating the wrong things though. I know I can eat one meal of day of fast food (with no other food but water) and put on weight, but I can eat 3 meals of day of non-processed food and maintain a healthy weight.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. Your Science Is Questionable dbonds
Sorry, but calories are calories. The body burns calories and couldn't possibly "know" from where they came. If you eat too much fat, it gets stored until later, but if the carb and protein volume is high enough, it burns that instead and then you JUST store fat.

Same with the carbs. Body will burn a normal amount of fat and protein and store excess carbs as glycogen. If you eat 2000 calories a day, and normal activities burn 2000 calories, the source is irrelevant.

Lastly, if you want people to eat more natural foods, that's noble. But, those are no more expensive than processed foods. So, people liking the taste of those processed foods is not the fault of anyone other than the eater, because we all derive a certain amount of pleasure from eating tasty food. The problem isn't solved by making processed foods more expensive and taking them away from the poor. That's ignoble.

If someone can figure out a way to get people to eat carrots for snakes instead of Twinkies, i'm all for that. But railing against HFCS, or fast food, is a solution in search of an actual root cause. Sugar is sugar. Calories are calories. The anger is misplaced and the solution off track.
The Professor
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #79
87. The notion that calories are calories has been disproven.
That was the basis for the Atkins diet (and some of the similar ones, Zone, South Shore, ...). In Atkins it was shown you could remove one type of food group to cause weight loss (plus many other health risks and moving your body chemistry out of whack). What food you get your calories from is important in that the make up of the food is different. Calories is just a measure of heat energy in the food, it does not address the other chemical reaction and effects.

BTW: my 1000 post :woohoo:
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. Congrats On The Thousandth Post!
And, no it hasn't been disproven. The Atkins diet has worked so well for so many because people became FAR more aware of their intake. That is what has been proven.

If one stays on low carbs, but watches the total intake of calories, then more efficient biochemical systems in the body take over.

Sorry, but your understanding of how that diet worked is in error.

But, we can disagree agreeably and i congratulate you again on post 1000!
The Professor
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #90
102. Actually, you don't have to count calories on Atkins
and the weight will fall off easily. I think the high protein and fat keeps your blood sugar at a steady level instead of the ups and downs you get from carbs, so you aren't hungry all the time as with high fiber, low fat diets. You end up naturally eating fewer calories after a while, but you never have to count them. You can eat as much as you like from the list of allowable foods which helps a great deal in the beginning, before your blood sugar levels even out.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #102
113. I'm Aware Of That
I never said one counted calories on Atkins. My wife's best friend was on it for months. I saw it first hand. Unfortunately, the science doesn't align with your thoughts on the subject. Biochemistry is extremely well understood. The volume of intake is everything.

But, on the value of Atkins: The awareness is still elevated. Only gluttons eat more when they KNOW they're eating too much. That awareness is a POWERFUL factor in weight loss and people on that diet are acutely aware of how much their consuming. That's important, and is a principal factor in the success of that diet for lots of people.

Congrats again. Let's drop this. I already said we could agree to disagree.
The Professor
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #87
128. From what I read of Atkins
By reducing carbs and eating more protein and fat, you feel full sooner and on less volumes of food. The lack of a sugar spike in your blood that occurs after eating a lot of high-carb foods prevents an insulin spike. Without an insulin spike, blood glucose levels remain steady and hunger cravings are delayed. The overall reduction of hunger cravings lowers the amount of calories you ingest, whether you are aware of it or not.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. Now bout the cost of food. The feds subsidize production of
the worst foods for the American diet. Let em subsidize something better.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. Like?
Farmers are subsidized for nearly everything. My friend works as a farm bureau administrator for the USDA. At least in the midwest, EVERYTHING is subsidized.
The Professor
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. Corn. Corn. Corn.
In 2005 almost $10 billion of corn subsidies were paid to US corn farmers, who were expected to bring in a $19 billion harvest. The government, via subsidy, provides almost half of that $19 billion corn harvest value.

Heavily subsidized corn is used to make fantastically inexpensive high-fructose corn sweeteners, which has replaced sugar in sodas and soft drinks.

In addition to what that does to our diets, the corn subsidies also supports the cattle industry, which leads to lots of bad, but cheap beef and cattle living on antibiotics, because corn doesn't agree with their digestive system.

We subsidize obesity by making the worst diets the cheapest.

And if you want to worry about the impact on the poor of more expensive foods, don't forget the impact on the same poor of obesity, adult onset diabetes, heatr disease and worse overall health.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. And Making Food More Expensive Makes That Better, How?
They die from malnutrition instead of heart disease, and that's better? That's illogical on its face.
The Professor
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. Like I said earlier: subsidize more healthy foods.
Forget that?

And I don't quite see how you went from less junk food to malnutrition as the only alternative.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. That's Already Done
Carrot, celery, lemons, limes, lettuce, asparagus, broccoli in California.

Tomotoes, asparagus, carrots, and apples in Tennesee.

Apples and pears in Washington.

Oranges and grapefruit in Florida.

I said virtually everything is subsidized already. Remember that?

And, less junk food, by taking out inexpensive food products in processed food raises the prices. Higher prices mean less eating. Less eating leads to hunger and malnutrition. That's the logic chain, and you were part of it the whole time. How did i get there? How did you miss it?

The risk of exposing more people to hunger is a risk i'm not willing to take. I think the battle over HFCS and beef is one not worth fighting, because the unintended consequences of "victory" seem too high a price.
The Professor
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. Not at the rate corn is subsidized.
And the greatest heath risk in the US is not malnutrition but overating.

Less subsidies of cheap burgers and biggy size cokes isn't going to lead anyone to die of malnutrition.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #96
100. Huh?
Now you're agreeing with me! My initial statement was that we EAT TOO MUCH! So you're arguing with me by using the same points i used.

The first post you responded to was one in which i said we would agree to disagree. Why is that so hard for you? You're not going to convince me, Joe. I think the foods are not the problem. The problem is volume of food.

Yelling at me isn't going to convince me, especially when i was already willing to drop it.
The Professor
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #100
104. I don't recall "yelling at" you.
And I don't know where you got that.

If your position is that Americans eat too much why are you so concerned that more expensive food will result in malnutrition?

Funny.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. Next
You're boring me.
The Professor
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #108
115. Nice * like attitude toward dialogue.
Thanks.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #115
119. Boring
The Professor
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #85
173. Why is corn so heavily subsidized?
Ever hear of the Iowa Caucus? Anyone who voted to reduce farm subsidies would be politically radioactive.
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A Simple Game Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
150. I looked at the label for Ramen noodles, didn't look that bad
to me. No don't worry I didn't go out of my way to look at it, it was right near the cup of noodles I was reaching for. Now when I looked at the label on the cup of noodles, I realized the people who made up this list didn't do much homework. Cup of noodles are worse than Ramen.

When I cook Ramen, I put the flavor packet in the water, the noodles get enough flavor, and you throw away most of the bad stuff(I think).
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
47. I hardly eat that now days
I'll have something every once in a while but I'm watching my weight a lot better now days. :)
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
59. All the good stuff, naturally.
It seems like the experts believe that anything that tastes good will kill you. Oh well. Someone please make me some movie-theater popcorn while I go outside to have a cigarette.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
65. Why is it all the people I know who eat this stuff weigh 102 pounds?
If I got *near* any of that, I'd gain twenty pounds instantly. Yeesh.

>Deep fried Snickers or Mars bars

I believe that started in Scotland, which means it'll be big in the US South any day now. The very idea ... ick.
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egadsbrain Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
68. Pastuerized-processed cheese food...
My grandfather, who was a farmer, called it "rat cheese" because it was the best bait for setting rat traps on the farm! Nothing like it though when you want an old-fashioned grilled cheese sandwich like you get at a diner or greasy-spoon!

I thought coconut oil was ok now?
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #68
157. Extra Virgin Coconut Oil is okay now.
Stay tuned for whether or not it's okay next week.
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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
72. Damn, I like my coffeemate
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. Me too!
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
88. I did too - until I realized about 3 years worth of digestive troubles
were caused by it. I had 6 physician visits, including a GI specialist, lab texts and a lot of unhappiness.

One day I realized there was some parallel between my use of coffee mate and my problems - I don't know how I didn't see it earlier.

I stopped using it that day, and within a week was almost entirely normally functioning again.
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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. Hmmm, good to know. Must try that. Having problems myself actually
Thought it may be related to a surgery I had, which it still might, but this might be making the situation worse. I can go a week or so without to see the results.

Thanks for the info.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. Let me know what happens! When it first occured to me that the
coffee mate might be the culprit I did a lot of web searching, and only turned up one really good piece of information.

I switched to whole milk from coffee mate and haven't regretted it at all. You could also try Silk Creamer, which is a soy milk creamer product, if you're really missing the sweetness of CM..
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #94
163. Your coffee mate clue may be what's harming my friend
Cannot wait to relay it to her. Just learned something today.
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Baconfoot Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
73. Has anyone ever eaten an entire large popcorn?Hats off to you if Y have NT
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
101. By a strange coincidence, I watched "Super Size Me" this past weekend.
Watch that documentary, and you'll never set foot inside a McDonald's or similar junk-food place again!

Super Size Me
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
103. I don't understand everyone's reaction to fried candy bars
I mean, let's see a raise of hands: how many here have eaten a Mars bar or a Snickers bar? Yeah, quite a few. OK, now how many of those same people have eaten a bag of french fries, or any fried food for that matter? Now, if you've eaten those items in the same day, how in the world is that any different from eating a deep fried candy bar?

I first learned about the deep fried Mars bar on FoodTV years ago, and of course had to try it just to see what in the world the fuss was all about. It was good enough, but too much trouble and I only did it once.

I suppose there was a time when people first heard about french fries and somebody said "What?!? Why in the world would you take a perfectly good potato and dip it in hot oil?" Or chicken. Or shrimp. etc. etc.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #103
111. What about the Monster Burger at Hardees, or the new Omlet sandwich at BK?
Both are pretty friggin bad for you - but taste oh, so, good ;)
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #111
116. taste versus quantity
if you like the taste get something that tastes the same but is smaller, or only eat half of it. What's the difference between throwing the food away or shoving out your sphincter a few hours later anyway?

Be good to yourself.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #116
120. Let me tell you about the diet I'm working on now
I joined Weight Watchers awhile back, and went with their "flex points" program. It's really helped out quite a bit, I eat much smaller portions now, and combined with working out several times a week, it really helps take the weight off.

One day a week, I allow myself to be "bad" and eat whatever I want, points be damned. The reason is that most diets fail because people give in to temptation, and never look back. This way, I can "cheat" one day per week (and usually just one meal), satisfy my temptations, and still not throw myself off track.

God, if I wrote a book about that, I'd probably make millions ;)
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #120
122. well actually that's also part of it
your metabolism will get "lazy" no matter what diet you're on if you don't keep it guessing (diet defined by matching calories-in to calories-used in a healthy ratio).

Keeping the diet lean and hungry is good only as long as your metabolism "thinks" that it's not permanent (i.e., starvation), so you have to let the dog off the leash for a short run every now and then to keep it guessing and to keep your brain and body healthy.

It's actually good for you to shock your system occasionally (within reason) - it's kind of how we operated evolutionarily anyway. We subsisted on gatherings (not farm hybrid veggies, but scraggly stuff) and occasionally caught and ate a nice fat rabbit or deer. Or mastodon. In the spring, sugary fruit was more plentiful, etc. If you eat too little for too long, your body slows down its metabolism (and your energy levels) because it just assumes you're trying not to die before the season/condition changes and you can get at new food. Perversely that means you can end up storing fat more readily if your metabolism believes you are in a period of starvation.

Our bodies like to stay revved up, and that means carrying around less mass for the most part so we can chase those deer and mastodon when we need to, and that we occasionally reward ourselves with a reasonable bit of gluttony.

Keep up the good work!
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #122
181. You're right and it surprised me
when I learned that.
A few years ago I was on a wretched medication for something called trigeminal neuralgia. I had bad shocks of pain when I moved my mouth to do exotic things like talking or eating. The meds didn't work so I barely ate but due to the meds gained a lot of weight.

When it went away and I was off the meds I was out of the habit of eating. A couple of instant breakfasts and maybe some fruit and oatmeal. I didn't lose weight. My DIL kept telling me what you said. was taking in about 800 calories a day (a lot more then when my face hurt) and she said my body thought I was starving and I had to get to at least 1200 to lose weight.

That sounded crazy but google agreed with her. She also corrected my diet, get more fiber, a bit more protein. She was startled to see Carnation instant breakfast really is not bad nutritionally, better then many health nutrition drinks.

I really made an effort for a while but it didn't do much. Very odd. Did I permanently change my metabolism when I was stuck at 500 or so calories during that year?
Maybe I should get my nutrition in and then get the rest of the calories with junk food? It still hurts my face sometimes but I am not going back on the poison meds that didn't help. I called it my fat, balding, dumb, sleeping med.

I have no idea how to lose weight now.
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A Simple Game Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #120
152. My mother always said, "you watch what you eat during the
week, and eat what you want on the weekend". My mother never weighed over 100 lbs. in her life.

Of course she never had to diet either!
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #103
114. my theory
food authoritarianism. If I can't enjoy it, nobody should enjoy it!

I don't understand it - when you grill food you create transient substances that are just as bad for you as fried food, carcinogenically speaking. But eating raw food can be bad for you microbially speaking. Eating too little food is bad for you catabolically speaking and eating too much food is bad for you metabolically speaking, and good grief.

Just enjoy your food, eat about four or five times as much in veggies and fruit as meat, and don't eat a lot of meat; big meal in the middle of the day or very early evening, no processed carbs after about 1:30 or 2:00, and surprise yourself with something decadent once or twice a month and you'll be just fine, but only take about half the helping your stomach is asking for.

Your body knows how to deal with it - you'll find yourself relishing flavor over quantity, eating slower, and feeling less hungry, and a deep fried snickers once a month, dipped in lard and rolled in sprinkles won't do a damn thing to your waist or to your heart and give you something to look forward to.

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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
106. None of these are near as bad as
Broccoli! The Silent Killer!!

It is a little known fact, but documented by health statisticians, government reports, medical experts, and just about anyone that has been aware of the threat to do the research:

Every single human being that ever ate broccoli has died. Every single one. 100% mortality rate.
Raw, cooked, steamed, breaded, stir-fried, doesn't matter. Eat it and you will die. Someday.

Terrifying.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. Pretzels too - gotta watch them suckers, they'll kill you for sure
Hell, they tried to assassinate our beloved shrub :sarcasm:
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
123. I just googled the nutrition info on what i had for dinner
I'm ready to go stick my finger down my throat.

Wendy's Hot Stuffed Baked Potato, Broccoli & Cheese:

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malmapus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
124. Pfft, kids stuff. Here's a manly 30,000 calorie sandwhich
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #124
132. If you want to find a legal way to kill someone off, that sandwich
Edited on Wed Jan-18-06 06:48 PM by Quixote1818
is the answer!
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Habibi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #124
143. Good god!
What are little fried round things (not the onion rings)? Mini-donuts?
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
134. I've never had a fried candy bar. Am I missing out on life?
Creamers are disgusting.
Ditto for "cheese food".
Not interested in chicken fries. Do BK maybe twice a year.
Ramen's too salty. Yuk.
Never go to movies, once every 5 years, maybe...
McDonald's just sux.
Ice melts before you can drink the super duper drinks.

I feel so much safer now! :bounce:
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
135. What - No Fried BBQ Flavor Pork Rinds???
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
137. Hubby does ramen noodles once in a while...
No one's allowed the super size drinks here. We don't eat breakfast out hardly at all anymore. Most of it, even in restaurants...is just horrible.

We rarely go the movies and don't touch none of the other stuff on this list.

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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
138. I won't force others to eat what they want, but we have the right to speak
what is wrong for them to do.

Just so long these fast food places don't use ingredients known to include addiction to their product because it means "return customers".

An educated populace is the least profitable one.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
144. Phew... I don't eat any of that crap. nt
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
145. Damn, Where Can I Get Me One? I Hear They're Awesome And I Want To Try
one so damn bad!


(I loveeeeee high calorie stuff. Not enough of it anymore since everything is friggin low fat this and low fat that)
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
146. Worst food for you?
Pork brains in gravy. 1170% recommended daily allowance of cholesterol from one serving. All that artery-clogging action seems a bit worse than a few extra calories, somehow.)

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OhNoTheyDidNot Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #146
167. I have never in my life heard of this product and would not have believed
it existed had you not included the photo. SICK
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
149. Deep fried Mars Bars have to be coated in batter
to stop the chocolate melting in the fryer.

It's a Scottish delicacy along with Deep-Fried Pizza, yummy.

If it was healthy it wouldn't taste so good.
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KitchenWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
155. Most of the sodium in Ramen Noodles is in the "flavor packet"
Ditch the flavor packet and they are not that bad.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #155
165. But the fat is in the fact that they are fried noodles
They are just like the crunchy fried noodles that you get at the chinese restaurant to dip in your soup. The only difference is that people eat them as a meal.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
156. Deep fried Snickers or Mars bars
Wow, I never even heard of that!
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
161. Mars Bars are forbidden in Iowa.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
170. This is Bush America.
You cant eat vegetables because of pesticides. You can't eat beef because of mad cow. And you can't eat fish because of the mercury in the water. And now you can't eat poultry because of flu. Geepers pretty soon a twinkee will be labled as a health food. Just give me some frozen pizza and Ill nuke away the germs :sarcasm:
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
175. TOON: using our lardasses as an energy source
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 11:13 AM by yurbud
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
176. Well, I love deep-fried Mars bars (Milky Ways)
And have one every Fall at this huge Celtic Festival I go to. And I will continue to eat this every October, washed down with a pint of yummy, creamy, delicious Guinness.
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surge84 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
180. I like to try to eat healthy.
It's so damn hard though.
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drbtg1 Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
182. Raisins
For your teeth, that is.

Sorry, but as a dentist, raisins equal Porsche for me.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
184. These studies never factor in the benefit of
the smile on my face.
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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
188. milk
for me cow milk is worst but I get your meaning all those things are not in my diet either
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
192. Ramen ain't so bad!
Okay, no fiber, lots of sodium... but it feels you up for cheap!

I never knew anyone to get fat on ramen.

It really doesn't belong with those other foods --
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
194. Good for me. I don't eat any of that crap.
If you are eating deep fried candy bars (Who the hell comes up with this stuff?) you are just begging for a heart attack.
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
195. Cheese Food isn't much worse than "American cheese"
There are no liquids in cheese food or pasteurized process American cheese other than water and liquid color (if they use that form) and sometimes liquid flavor (like smokey cheese). The fat in processed cheese and cheese food is all dairy based. The principal difference between cheese food and processed cheese (like American) is that cheese food has whey powder and has more water and less fat. They both have emulsifiers in them which allow them to be a uniform product and melt so nicely.
The artificial ingredients like emulsifiers may or may not be unhealthy when consumed on a regular basis. Processed cheese is healthier than naturual cheese in that there has never been any deaths or hospitalizations or miscarried babies resulting from the consumption of processed cheese where as the same is not true for naturual cheese.
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
200. Seems like donuts should be on there somewhere....
n/t
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