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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 06:40 PM
Original message
Thoughts on Republican Accusations of “Class Warfare” Against Democrats
The term “class warfare” as it is used in the United States today is very misleading – and purposely so. It is primarily used by Republican operatives to conjure up fears of the “lower class” masses rising up to steal from the rich what is rightfully theirs, in the process plunging our country into Communism or anarchism. For example, the number one Republican operative in our country, George W. Bush, said not too long ago in preparation for another round of tax cuts for the wealthy: "I understand the politics of economic stimulus -- that some people would like to turn this into class warfare."

Not only is this line of propaganda condescending and offensive, as it implies the existence of a so-called “lower class” that is somehow inferior to the upper classes who are the defenders of our civilization. But it is also terribly misleading.

There is indeed a kind of internal warfare going on in our country today, as is testified to by the massive grassroots support for the impeachment of the worst President in our history. But this warfare does not involve lower class vs. upper class, or even the poor vs. the rich. Rather, it is more accurately characterized as a struggle between those who seek responsible government versus those who currently hold power in our country and who wish to expand their wealth and power at the expense of everyone else. In fact, it is the former group, not the latter, who are the defenders of our civilization, and it is the latter group who are plunging our country into anarchism.

The idea that these two groups break out along so-called “class” lines, whatever that means, is ridiculous, unless by that we mean the moral class vs. the robber baron class. For example, consider the 90 some thousand persons who have registered with the DU. These people certainly represent the whole spectrum of economic status, and yet they are almost uniformly on the side of this struggle that seeks responsible government. True, they are doubtlessly much more intelligent and better educated on average than the other side. But that doesn’t qualify this as “class warfare”.

Furthermore, those who spew out this venomous spin aren’t even consistent about it. Whereas they use the term “class warfare” to their higher income audiences, to arouse fear of insurrection from below, to their lower income audiences they are much more likely to use the phrase “liberal elites”, in order to arouse a different kind of hatred.

But in order to put this into better perspective I need to back up in time a bit to consider some historical events and situations.


A brief example of anarchy – 14th century France

The Republicans know what they’re doing when they try to conjure up fears of anarchy, which is indeed a dreadful state of affairs. Barbara Tuchman, in “A Distant Mirror – The Calamitous 14th Century”, describes what the anarchy occasioned by warfare in 14th Century France was like:

The breakdown of authority was reaching catastrophe. Its catalyst was the brigandage of military companies… and were to become the torment of the age…They had acquired in the Prince’s campaigns a taste for the ease and riches of plunder… they swelled, merged, organized, spread, and operated with ever more license. Seizing a castle, they would use it as a stronghold from which to exact tribute from every traveler and raid the countryside… They imposed ransoms on prosperous villages and burned the poor ones, robbed abbeys and monasteries… pillaged peasants’ barns, killed and tortured those who hid their goods or resisted ransom… violated virgins, nuns, and mothers, abducted women…

That’s anarchy. In a nutshell, anarchy is where, in the absence of adequate government authority a power vacuum is created whereby opportunistic men without morals act as predators on the rest of society. Who benefits from anarchy? Certainly not society as a whole. The only people who “benefit” from this, if “benefit” is the appropriate word, are the powerful, greedy, aggressive men who have the means of power to get what they want and the lack of conscience to restrain themselves from trampling over everyone else to get it.

One of the main reasons that people create governments is to protect themselves against that sort of thing.


But sometimes government itself is the problem: The American Revolution

Of course, not any old government will do. Often government itself is headed by men who use their authority to enrich themselves and enhance their power, rather than to serve their people.

Such was the situation that incited the Revolution that gave birth to the United States of America. Thus, the Declaration of Independence, which formally signaled the birth of our country, contains a list of numerous grievances against King George III that mostly involve his accumulation of power at the expense of the Americans.

Today, nobody thinks of the Founding Fathers of the United States as “anarchists” or as men who fought a “class war”. Rather, they were a group of men who believed that their government was tyrannical, that they therefore had the moral right to overthrow it, and who did so. Thus, they were a group of men who fought for responsible government, not unlike the group of people whom I mention in the first section of this article.


The Gilded Age

The Gilded Age encompasses the period of United States History from roughly 1865 to 1901. It was characterized by rapid industrialization and a great widening of the income gap between the rich and the poor. The term “robber baron” was used to characterize the leading industrialists of this period, who were described by Thorstein Veblen in “The Theory of the Leisure Class” as being “not different from a barbarian because he uses brute force, cunning and competitive skills to make money from others, and then lives off the spoils of conquests rather than producing things himself.”

Note the similarity between this characterization of robber barons and the brigands of 14th Century France described above. The major difference is that the robber barons didn’t use force and violence with their own hands to enhance their wealth and power, but rather used the power of government for that purpose. Some would also argue that these people did not act immorally in their acquisition of wealth and power because their actions were supported by the legal power and authority of government.

This is obviously a very complex issue. But to add some human perspective to it, consider the events of May 1886, highlighted by the Haymarket bombing incident and its aftermath, and considered to represent a major turning point in the history of America’s labor movement. These events are described in detail in James Green’s “Death in the Haymarket – A story of Chicago, the First Labor Movement and the Bombing that Divided Gilded Age America”.


A very brief history of the Haymarket Square bombing incident and its precedents and aftermath

Precedents

Working people had it very rough in those days. They often worked very hard, under very bad physical conditions, for very little money, and for so many hours that they had very little time for leisure or to spend with their families.

Labor unions began to form as a response to these conditions. One of the main goals of the labor movement was the establishment of the 8 hour working day. Industry vigorously resisted this, and they were greatly assisted in this resistance by the leading newspapers of the time, as well as the powers of government.

Yet, the labor movement persisted, and through organization, political activity, strikes, and demonstrations meant to appeal to the American masses, by the end of April 1886, it appeared to be on the verge of winning substantial concessions.

On May 1st a general strike began, with its most intense activity in Chicago. By the afternoon of May 3rd, several employers had granted major concessions to the labor unions, and the situation was looking bright for them. Then about 200 police officers attacked strikers at the McCormick plant in Chicago with clubs and guns, resulting in six dead strikers.

Rather than quelling the strikes, the deaths at the McCormick plant infuriated the workers, who responded by gathering together for numerous meetings, where angry and violent rhetoric was spoken. The strikes continued on May 4th.

The Haymarket Square bombing incident

On the evening of May 5th a protest rally was held in Haymarket Square, Chicago, with about 3,000 people attending. By 10:20 p.m., bad weather had caused many people to leave, and only about 500 remained. As the meeting was winding down, police entered the square and commanded the crowd to disperse. The speaker, Samuel Fielden, briefly argued with the police, claiming that the rally was peaceable, but relented after further insistence by the police. Fielden then began to climb down from his platform.

At that moment a grenade was thrown, landed on the ground, and exploded. There is controversy about what followed, but most of the witnesses who were not bribed or threatened or tortured into giving specific testimony said that the gunfire which followed the explosion of the grenade came entirely or almost entirely from the police. By the end of the mayhem that followed the exploded grenade, three civilians and seven police officers were dead or lay dying.

Aftermath

The “terrorist attack” set off hysteria throughout the country, but especially in Chicago. The hysteria was occasioned by the fact that the use of bombs for such a purpose was not previously known, and there was a belief that this could auger in an era where police were defenseless against terrorists who chose to fight by methods such as this.

In the following days many of the leaders of the labor movement in Chicago were rounded up and held for interrogation. Eight of them were indicted on conspiracy to commit murder. These eight men were mostly anarchists, Communists, or socialists, and all of them were immigrants to the United States.

The trial of the eight men became one of the most controversial trials in American history because of its many irregularities. In the first place, people were admitted to the jury only if they expressed prejudice against the defendants. The person who threw the bomb was neither identified nor charged, and indeed many people suspected that it was thrown by someone whose motivation was to cast a cloud over and destroy the labor movement. Furthermore, it was made clear to the jury that the defendants were being tried on the basis of their political beliefs rather than on the basis of their relationship to the specific events of May 5th. The prosecutor put it like this in his charge to the jury:

America… might be in danger, for … anarchy is possible… There is but one step from republicanism to anarchy… Freeing the anarchists would mean taking that step… If the jurymen unjustly acquit the anarchists, their followers would flock out again like a lot of rats and vermin.

And the judge agreed, instructing the jury that they could find the men guilty of murder even if the crime was committed by someone who was not charged.

7 of the 8 men were found guilty of murder and sentenced to be hung, while the 8th was sentenced to 15 years in prison. A sympathetic governor later commuted the death sentence to life imprisonment for 2 of the 7 men who were sentenced to hang, refusing to do so for the remaining 5 because they refused to ask for mercy, on the grounds that they maintained their innocence. One man committed suicide, and four were hung to death. A new mayor eventually pardoned the remaining three, based on the paucity of evidence against the defendants, the numerous irregularities of the trial and the finding that most of the witnesses for the prosecution had been either bribed, threatened, or tortured into testifying against the defendants.

Nevertheless, the hysteria and fear occasioned by the “terrorism” unleashed at Haymarket Square led to aggressive suppression of the labor movement in the following years, very possibly setting back the labor movement in the United States by decades. And to give you a general idea of the violence involved in conflicts between labor and employers, the historian Richard Hofstadter, writing in 1970, concluded that the United States had experienced at least 160 instances in which state or federal troops had intervened in strikes, and at least 700 labor disputes in which deaths were recorded, with clearly most of the violence being perpetrated by state or federal authorities.


Amelioration of the excesses of the Gilded Age

Eventually, reaction set in against the robber barons, and measures were taken to reduce income and power disparities in America. Landmark measures included the Sherman Anti-Trust Act in 1890, President Teddy Roosevelt’s vigorous enforcement of those laws during his Presidency, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution in 1913, which allowed the graduated income tax, and Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal. Finally, Congress mandated the eight hour working day with the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938.


Relevance to the present day situation

Republicans cry “class warfare” whenever Democrats suggest measures that are meant to improve the lives of American citizens in general, but which may cut into the profits of the wealthy and powerful benefactors of the Republican Party. They like to pretend that they represent the forces of law and order, and that they will protect us against those of us who wish to institute “class warfare” and plunge our country into anarchy and terrorism. But in reality they are similar in many ways to the brigands of 14th century France or the Robber Barons of the Gilded Age.

Thousands of examples could be provided of how current day Republicans are moving our country in a direction that makes the wealthy and powerful less accountable for their actions or unfairly increases their wealth and power at the expense of everyone else, thus reversing so much of the progress that has been made since the late 19th century in leveling the playing field to make opportunity for a good life available to all Americans. Here are just a few of those examples:

 Passing of a Medicare bill that prohibits government negotiation of prices with the drug companies, thus enriching drug companies at the expense of our senior citizens
Massive tax cuts for the rich
Nominating a Secretary of Labor who is rabidly anti-union
Nominating a Secretary of the Interior who is rabidly anti-environment
No bid contracts for reconstruction in Iraq, and then failure to follow up on gross violations of those contracts
Failure to raise the minimum wage for almost 10 years
 Passage of a bankruptcy bill that encourages predatory lending practices
 Passage of the Telecommunications Act of 1996, which allowed the consolidation and monopolization of the news media
 Failure to take seriously or respond to the worst hurricane to hit our country in several years or decades
 Deregulation of the energy industry, which allowed Enron to create an artificial power crises in order to raise energy prices
 Voting machines provided by allies of the Republican Party, that count our votes using secret software and produce results that cannot be verified

As a result of all this, the poverty rate has increased substantially during the Bush administration for the first time since the end of the first Bush Presidency, the wealth gap has widened to the highest levels since the Gilded Age, so that CEOs now make on average 431 times the annual income of their average employee, and even infant mortality rate has begun to rise for the first time in 40 years.

The Haymarket bombing incident is very reminiscent of the September 11 attacks on our country:

 Both incidents set off widespread hysteria and fear in our country because of the advent of a new form of terror.
 Both incidents resulted in massive repression by government, which consequently greatly enhanced its powers.
 And, the investigations of both incidents were grossly inadequate, with widespread government interference, so that numerous questions remained as to who was responsible.

Even worse, our leaders have used the events of the September 11 terrorist attacks as a pretense for preemptive war, for spying on its own citizens without the use of warrants as demanded by U.S. law and our Constitution, and for violating the terms of international treaties whose purpose is to establish the rule of law among nations. And all for no apparent reason – other than to enhance the wealth and power of our leaders and their friends.


In Summary

Democrats and other people who are disgusted with our current leaders are not interested in “class warfare”, as Republicans repeatedly whine about. They are primarily interested in restoring responsible government to our country. Part of that includes removing some of the privileges that have been heaped upon the ultra-wealthy and ultra-powerful during the past several years of Republican rule.

One of the major indications of Fascism is a tight relationship between corporate power and government, so that in many ways corporate power rather than the people is in control of the government. Can anyone claim that we’re not there yet?

I don’t think that opposing Fascism is the same thing as class warfare. But if it is then I guess that many of us Democrats will just have to plead guilty to that charge.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Class Warfare? Just three words...
BRING IT ON!

:grr:

Yes, it IS class warfare. And I'm ready for it. I hope those fat cats are ready to unstick their fat asses out of their couches!

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I think it's already ON
I think that most people are on to them and they're going to have a very tough time holding on to Congress this fall.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. The revolution starts now
:headbang:
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. Bring It On? They already have. nt
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
62. As columnist and author Molly Ivins says...
if the Republican's didn't want class warfare, they shouldn't have started one.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 06:49 PM
Original message
Amazing post. Don't you have to have class to scream 'class warfare'?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good point - I think we should call them on that
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Great Limbaugh Con has good comments on this
That said, I think the problem is not class warrior - but the idea that all American's are in the same boat; what hurts working class Americans hurts us all.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think that the problem is that the leaders of the Republican Pary
and their wealthy friends are trying to get hold of all the boats and sail away with them, leaving the rest of us out to dry.

And when we try to stop them from doing that they accuse us of class warfare.

I didn't see anything in the link on class warfare. What was it that you wanted me to check out?
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's a book
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. In various peasant uprisings during Europe's history
it wasn't uncommon for mobs to storm nobles' mansions and slaughter the inhabitants.

That is "class warfare". Tell the Repub stooges who cry "class warfare!" to stick their heads up their own rear. (Wait, their heads already are up their rear-ends...)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Right - I don't think they'd understand the point anyhow.
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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-26-06 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. K & R
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. "Work Cheap or Starve" should be the new republican slogan
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. That's an appropriate slogan for them
Another one would be "Our wealth is proof of our moral virtue" -- or simply "Fuck you".
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. You Mean Work Cheap AND Starve, Doncha? n/t
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. And We Didn't Start It Either
... the reason I say this is because the person who started it who is blaming someone else for something they did not even begin, is using the classic way to take focus off themselves and put it somewhere else. Like my mother would respond to my sisters and I when disagreed: "Don't MAKE me get up and finish it!"

If we little guys have to "finish" their class war, believe me, as it always has been in history, won't be pretty!

Cat In Seattle
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. For these people, blaming is their main way of operating
It's like their blaming the "liberal media" for any problems they might have. Or blaming the "terrists" for our budget defecits. Or blaming liberal bloggers for our troubles in Iraq.
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Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
56. It's a difficult choice
Traditionally the gentry has felt the pitchfork and Club when they got too greedy.
But what do we use on them now?
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The Anti-Neo Con Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
12. Great Post, K & R.
Don't buy into the propaganda that class warfare was started by the poor in an effort for wealth redistribution. It was the priviledged class who fired the first shot, and who are mostly winning this war under neo-con policy. Now, in addiction to the poor who have been frustrated for decades, the middle class is now growing more discontent. When that discontent grows even stronger, you can expect some big changes to the status quo.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Thank you - Yes, I believe you are correct
The middle class, working people of all sorts, and the poor are becoming more and more discontent with this government.

Our current Republican leaders not only try to stir up class hatreds with their rhetoric, but even worse, the Bush administration has no respect for international or domestic law or our Constitution. He is totally derilict in his duties, and we are all hoping mightily that this November will indeed result in a massive change in the status quo.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
13. great post. And most enlightening about the Haymarket bombing.

I never knew that much about it. In school we just touched on it. Imagine that...:sarcasm:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thank you - I never knew much about it either
I found it difficult to tie in the story with today's Republican accusations of class warfare. But I sensed so many parallels in that story to what we are faced with today that I felt that I just had to try it. Especially striking to me is the parallel between the Haymarket bombing and the 9-11 attacks - although I'm more convinced that the 9-11 attacks were an inside job than I am that the Haymarket bombing was (which I judge to be only about 50-50, based on what I currently know).

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pelagius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
14. "If class warfare is being waged in America..."
"...my class is clearly winning." -- Warren Buffett (who strongly opposes irresponsible tax cutting)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. He's right on target with that one
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
16. Typical strategy - accuse us of doing what they are doing.
It doesn't matter how ridiculous the claim or how blatantly it applies to them, by accusing us of it first, we are unable to effectively turn the argument around in a sound bite. "No, you are," sounds incredibly lame, no matter what the topic or how true it may be.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. Yes, their whole game is to make us believe that white is black and black
is white.

It's like their "Clear skies initiative", which replaces mandatory limits on pollutants with "voluntary" limits. Or passing the "No Child Left Behind Act" and then refusing to fund it adequately. Everything this administration and this Republican Congress does is a sham.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. And Bill Clinton is gay! n/t
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RedStateShame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. If there's anyone opposed to rushing into any warfare, it's Republicans.
:sarcasm:
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
18. Well, there is class warfare being carried on in this country
But it is being waged by the rich and the powerful, and is directed at the rest of us. And we're all taking massive casualties, and people are literally dying because of it. High time that we started fighting back, don't you think, show them what class warfare is truly about. Dump this two party/same corporate master system of government that is the wealthy's main instrument of our destruction and put it back into the hands of we the people. Then we can show them what class warfare is all about.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. check out the economic cleansing in many larger american cities
that began in the late 90s, but have essentially disneyfied and suburbanized "approved" sections of places like NYC and chicago.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. That's not just happening in large cities,
It is happening in smaller cities too. I used to live in the heart of Columbia Mo, pop. 100,000. There has been an ongoing war against the First Ward, the heart of the city. Home prices have gone through the roof. The small starter house I bought there in '93 for $30,000 I wound up selling for $50,000, and many people thought I was foolish for not getting $70,000. I'm not a greedy person, and didn't want to screw neighbors and friend, nor the young couple I sold it too. They were just starting out, and all I wanted was a price that reflected a reasonable return on my investment and the money and time I had spent on improvements.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. How true -- And yes I do believe that Dems should be fighting back harder
than they are.

But I don't think that we should be using terms like "class warfare" in our rhetoric when talking about our intentions, because I believe that that kind of talk has the potential to back fire on us. :)
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
21. well written and cogent article, Thank you.
I worry that my teenage daughters are preparing to enter a world gone crazy with evil, but down deep I understand that evil has ever been present and a danger to children. I also fear that the brief period of relative world wide calm civilization has bumbled through the last fifty years may be about to end. (Why must mankind be so full of hatred for each other?) Overall, global warming may be the best thing to come along; it may give mankind a common enemy, a common problem that commands attention. Maybe such magnitude is what is needed to drain the pool of religious hatred this world seems ready to consume itself over. I strongly believe that religion, which I define as man attempting to get to god, will indeed be an end to civilization as we have known it. My hope is that there is a "Father" spiritual figure who might step up and end this evil. The Earth would be heaven except for evil.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. I somehow wish I had your equanimity, that people had a
better nature, and that we would band together-with other people that we just simply know are our intellectual and cultural inferiors-against a common, non-human enemy.

I suspect that, if climate change brings about widespread famine and death becomes a next door issue, we will find those selfsame blowhards, or their intellectual or cultural offspring, officiating at the ceremonies for sacrificing virgins to the gods of weather and climate, while the band plays on.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. I know what you mean
I have a couple of children too, and I often think that things are going to get a lot worse in this world by the time I'm gone or afterwards.

You're right, there always has been evil in the world - but when the world was lucky the evil didn't get too powerful, and was kept under some kind of control. The world almost failed in that task when Hitler came along. Can you imagine what kind of world we would live in if Hitler had won?

But now, I hate to say it, but our country is headed by one of the most evil groups of men to come along in a long time. Most people, especially within our own country, don't realize how evil they are because to a large extent they're kept from committing more evil because their power is limited to some extent. But they keep on reaching successfully for more power, and I shudder to think what's going to happen if and when this country becomes a full-fledged dictatorship.

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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
22. Excellent. Thank you. n/t
K&R
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
23. Excellent post
Class warfare? Perhaps, but the wealthy and greedy started it. There is one thing about neocons, and those who have made so much money, and have so much power...their greed can never be satisfied. They never reach a point where they have enough.

We have a system where only the rich can afford to run for office, and they depend even then on contributions, mostly from wealthy benefactors. Once they attain office, their goal from that point on is to maintain their grip on power, and making more wealth.

The current situation, with globalization, has made things worse. I think that we will at some point have to unite with workers in other countries, in order to have some fair way to have everybody share in the wealth. They are making workers compete with workers in other countries, and since the cost of living varies so much, it puts us at a disadvantange. Why not outsource the jobs of the executives, like the CEOs? I'm sure that would save a lot of money.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. Thank you - I think you're right abuot the rich and greedy never being
satisfied. And rarely has that applied more than to the group that is currently in charge of our country.

And it's also true, as you say, that in our system you generally have to have quite a lot of money to run for office, and that money has way too much influence in our system.

Thankfully, being wealthy doesn't necessary include being greedy, and there are a number of wealthy or very well off people who are not greedy or corrupt and who try to do the right thing. I would put most of our Democratic leaders in that category.

I think they're fighting for us, but they're up against one hell of a powerful enemy.

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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Right! "Being wealthy doesn't necessary include being greedy."
You also referenced this in your OP:

"For example, consider the 90 some thousand persons who have registered with the DU. These people certainly represent the whole spectrum of economic status, and yet they are almost uniformly on the side of this struggle that seeks responsible government."

I'm not sure what the term "wealthy" means, but there are probably a fair number of millionaires right here on DU. I would venture a guess that many achieved it by scrimping, saving, and living below their means. And most probably did so either to get out from under the yoke of an increasingly hostile work culture, and/or because they feared for their future as they watched decent jobs vanish before their eyes. In fact, those who managed to accumulate a considerable amount of assets for these reasons are probably as hostile (or even more hostile) toward the neocon economic agenda than most, considering the fact that they went to such lengths to escape its claws.

There's a very big difference between the thinking of those who achieved the type of "wealth" I describe above, and the thinking of those who achieved their wealth through the birth lottery of inherited wealth. This is one reason why the restoration of a very stiff estate tax should be one of the very first things we do when we return to power. And we should make it retroactive at the highest levels. * should have barely enough to buy cigarettes in whatever prison we send him to.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I agree about having an estate tax
I would like to see it as stiff as it's been in the past, but I don't think that that would be politically feasible at this time.

But I have to say that, just as there are many very good people who are wealthy, not all of them obtained their wealth through working either. After all, inheriting wealth, winning the lottery, or getting lucky on investments doesn't make one a bad person either.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Well, I wouldn't frame the issue quite that way.
"...there are many very good people who are wealthy..."

"After all, inheriting wealth... doesn't make one a bad person either."

Yeah, I think those comments pretty much go without saying. But I wouldn't buy into the notion that such things as: 1) the amount of wealth, 2) the source of wealth, and 3) the circumstances surrounding the wealth don't really matter when it comes to "class warfare". It isn't really so simple a matter as "inherited wealth: bad" --- "earned wealth: good"; but it would strike me as rather naive to believe that circumstances surrounding one's path to wealth would not likely play a role in the development of one's attitude and politics. Not always, obviously, but enough to have had one hell an impact upon our society.

"I agree about having an estate tax. I would like to see it as stiff as it's been in the past..."

Not sure I'd agree with that. Actually I'm not sure what you mean here because the estate tax, in the past, has changed repeatedly. It probably wasn't stiff enough at some times in the past, while in more recent times it was beginning to impact the middle class with $600,000+ estates, while being too generous to those at the top. I'd probably set the exemption at maybe 1.5 million, index it to the CPI (including energy and food), and implement a steeply rising rate as the taxable estate went up - perhaps topping out at 100% over 3 million (also indexed to inflation). The threat to our economic security, and to our way of life, is being underwritten primarily by the very rich. I'd make damned sure that the second generation of those with such attitudes didn't have the resources to carry on the assault in a big way. And yes, I think that would be politically feasible as long as the impact upon the middle class was negligible.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. I agree with you that the source of wealth is likely to play a role in
one's attitudes and politics. And also that this could or is likely to have an impact on society. My comments were directed to your previous post that seemed to me to simplify the matter too much.

My comment about the estate tax was very vague, I agree. I don't know exactly where to put the limit. Actually, I inherited some money a few years ago, and I was amazed (but glad) that it wasn't taxed. I mean, all of my other money is taxed, so why not that? I work a lot harder for most of my other money than I worked for that. 100% over 3 million? Sounds good to me.

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Bretttido Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
24. Great Article
These people should be treated like morons when they claim "class warfare". First off, this isn't warfare, as Al Franken mention in Lies. Peasants storming into a Noble's Manor, hanging the men and burning the women is class warfare; Debating the optimum marginal tax rate is not. Second, if semantics are passed aside and there is indeed a supposed "class warfare", THE RICH ARE WINNING.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. Thank you brettido - I don't think they're morons, they're just liars,
crooks, and even much worse.

I do believe that it is something similar to class warfare that they are practicing against us.

One difference between this and true class warfare is that their opponents (or enemy) isn't confined to any particular income or class group of any kind, but rather is anyone BUT themselves and their benefactors. They are a small cabal, and they're reaching for all the power they can get.

The other difference ... well, maybe their isn't another significant difference. I was going to say that the other difference is that they aren't actually practicing violence agaisnt us - they're not storming the manor, as you would say. But that's not quite true, either. Think of Katrina. Think of Iraq. Think of the way that our prisoners are tortured for no apparent reason.

And you're right THEY ARE WINNING -- but hopefully not for much longer.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
26. Five to One
"They got the guns. We got the numbers."
Jim Morrison
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
28. "Rather, it is more accurately characterized..."
"Rather, it is more accurately characterized as a struggle between those who seek responsible government versus those who currently hold power in our country and who wish to expand their wealth and power at the expense of everyone else."

And even more accurately characterized as a struggle between the powerless and their putative representatives. No Democratic Party that votes with Bush on his worst major initiatives can be seen as an enemy of fascism; rather, it is fascism's willing handmaiden.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
43. I'm sure you're right in some respects
But I would say that most of our Democratic representative do not vote with Bush on his worst major initiatives.

Take a look at this:
http://www.drummajorinstitute.com/congress/outerenvelope_overview.htm

Pretty good grades for the Dems overall, I'd say.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. Al Franken on class warfare
Just from memory, he said, what is going on now is not class warfare, then told the story of a medieval village ruled by a despot lord. Eventually, the people stormed his castle, roasted him over a spit, made his family eat the cooked carcass, then burned them all at the stake.

"That, my friend, is class warfare."

And we could use a little bit of it here, IMO>
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. Well, but I do think that they are practicing a kind of class warfare
Against US.

Here's a quote on that from another post:

One difference between this and true class warfare is that their opponents (or enemy) aren't confined to any particular income or class group of any kind, but rather is anyone BUT themselves and their benefactors. They are a small cabal, and they're reaching for all the power they can get.

The other difference ... well, maybe their isn't another significant difference. I was going to say that the other difference is that they aren't actually practicing violence agaisnt us - they're not storming the castle, as you say. But that's not quite true, either. Think of Katrina. Think of Iraq. Think of the way that our prisoners are tortured for no apparent reason.


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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
38. k&r
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
46. Republicans and the upper class declared war on the 99%
long ago
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Yes, I agree for the most part. However, I think it's important to
remember that not all, or even most of the "upper class" is involved in this.
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Iniquitous Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
50. The right is in power because of religious conservatives.
Most religious conservatives are working class. They have succeeded in dangling the carrot of the overturn of Roe vs. Wade in order to gain power. If they would get a clue, they'd realize two things 1.) It is not in their best interests to vote Republican financially or morally and 2.) Abortions are lowest when Democrats are in power.

However, the are so Hell bent on this tunnel vision, single issue crap that they allow their own lack of knowledge and repression train-wreck the whole damned country world!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Yeah, I think there is something seriously wrong with those people
I'm not sure exactly what, but I wish I knew.

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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
52. I feel that there is indeed a class war underway right now.
Unfortunately, we are mislead by the lie that has been spoonfed to the inhabitants since the dawn of the industrial age that the American workers are truly "middle class," and not working class, since the growth of the industrial economy beginning in the First World War and culminating in the great race to being Number One through the Second and then slowly fizzling in the 70s led the confusion of material possessions to lose track of basic identification. If one could afford both a ranch house and to send the children to college and also have a motor boat and a car, then they "must" be middle class.

Germany found the foundation of modern social security programs to be the perfect foil for Socialism during the early days of the Empire. It was brilliant on von Bismark's part. Raise the wages just enough to keep the workers satisfied with lots of beer and snitzels, and a week in the Alps or the Baltic coast, and all will be well -- go even further and insure them for illness and disability.

The truth is before the American workers' eyes, but contrary to most Europeans, Americans are the most conservative, stubborn people in the West. It takes drastic acts to get the US to move as a whole. The Depression and the very, very moderate socialism of FDR was accepted, but the former ruling caste had to be kicked and dragged into compliance. This continued throughout the War and then a sort of equilalibrium was reached between labor and capital. There were few strikes and the whole process flowed very smoothly for many years.

Now we are fed hog wallow for news. Lie upon lie is told and exposed to no result; assault upon assault of our jobs and our rights are dished out and to rebel in print or voice is termed "unpatriotic." The labor movement is in dire need of a transfusion, as its blood is slowly bled dry by concession upon concession by the capitalists who hang the constant threat of "OK, nice working with you boys. I'll take my factory and move to San Costaguatauagua. Or China."

To top matters, Christianity and Judaism are used as the oppressors' co-tools! Two religions have been hijacked! Anathema has been declared upon a third (unless they are so-called royalty and have millions of gallons of oil).

Republicans are mainly at fault, but some Democrats are equally to blame for enforcing the status quo of perpetual money raising and outrageous costs of elections, so that we find a small caste, much of it from hereditary wealth or alliance with it, no only standing for election, being chosen our cabinet officers and judges, but financing the system.

There is a new oligarchy. It is based on outsourcing our jobs, keeping us sick or bankrupt from paying for our medical care, stealing our pensions, holding our jobs over our heads and turning us into a security state. The country is truly at a new moral low in leadership.

"Gambling at Rick's Cafe American? I am flabbergasted! Shocked, I say!"
"Your winnings, sir."
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Yes, I agree with all that, though
I wouldn't call it a class war. They don't care who they have to step over and trample on to get what they want.
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bperci108 Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. Another excellent piece, TFC...
But I would call it class warfare.

The term is most certainly a Frank Luntz-esq RadCon frame but, in true Yankee Doodle fashion, I think it is quite apropos.

To quote the first paragraph of the IWW Preamble:

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life...."

Some of the same folks who saw the Haymarket Massacre firsthand, and others in the Labor Rights struggles of the Gilded Age, went on to found the IWW in 1905.

It is "class warfare"; they declared war on the working class 150 years ago. It's time to join the battle.

(But you present your thoughts and observations well in the OP. I guess I'm just a bit more radicalized... :evilgrin: )
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-29-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. Ok, I can see how this can be thought of as a class war
I think that in part, or maybe in large part, my preference for not calling it class war or thinking of it in those terms is that when we use those terms I believe that a big portion of middle America, including working middle America, become fearful and are alienated by such talk.

Yes, we both agree, and almost all of DU agrees that "so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people..." we must strive to change that. But I think that by calling and thinking about our efforts as "fighting or working for responsible government" we win a lot more very much needed adherents to our cause than if we call it "class warfare".
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bperci108 Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-29-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I see your point....
...and since Conservatism need two things to exist above all else:

1) An Environment of Fear

..and

2) An Enemy to hate

it could be used as a useful frame to raise public sentiment against us "class warriors".

But when we take the message to the general public and frame the issues our way, they usually respond positively. They understand they have been duped.

The surprising public sentiment about the minimum wage in the past few weeks gives me hope that The People are beginning to wake from their apathy.

:woohoo:

The way you frame the issues and they way I frame them aren't really too different; they just have different audiences. Keep up the Good Fight. :)

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-29-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. I agree - They are different in form, but not much in substance
You keep up the Good Fight too :toast:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Good point, most people who call themselves "Middle Class", aren't.
I think only the group commonly called "upper-middle class" should be labeled "middle class." The lower boundery of what is "middle class" is been broght down because our social-darwinistic, dog-eat-dog society makes is a psychological neccessity for working class people to label themselves as higher on the socio-economic scale then they really are, in our society not being able to get the "middle class" label males you a failure in the eyes of your peers.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-29-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #57
67. *KICK*
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
54. Kicking for later reply.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
58. "Class warfare", huh? My thought is:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. John Edwards
Yes, if he was President there would be a great many changes today in behalf of working people. The right would be rabid about it, and every aspect of his personal life would be examined in fine detail. If he had ever made a mistake on his income tax returns, that could turn into the new Whitewater-gate.
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PinkyisBlue Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
59. "Working people had it very rough in those days...
They often worked very hard, under very bad physical conditions, for very little money, and for so many hours that they had very little time for leisure or to spend with their families."

So what has changed? I think the working poor are the hardest working group in our society right now. I haven't read the book "Nickel and Dimed", but I've heard it's a very good account of what the working poor have to deal with on a daily basis. The way our country is heading, we will someday all (or at least most of us) be the working poor, toiling away for our rich masters.

Excellent analysis, by the way.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Thank you - Yes, working people are the hardest working group in our
society right now, and they always have been.

But I think that a lot has changed since the Gilded Age. To name a few, the 8 hour day was institutionalized, there are work place protection laws, child labor laws, a minimum federal wage, and unions were legally recognized as having the legitimate right to negotiate for better working terms with employers. And more recently, there was Bill Clinton's Family and Medical Leave Act.

However, as you point out, many of those gains have been reversed under the Bush administration, and we are rapidly heading in the wrong direction.

I think that it would be very difficult for anyone to read "Nickel and Dimed" without feeling that life is very unfair today in the United States for a lot of very hard working people. It does provide a very personal and vivid account of what millions of people in our country have to deal with just to earn enough money to buy the bare necessities of life.
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dogfish602 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. Silly me. I thought the class war ended in 1980, and
The rich guys won. Tax cuts, the end of antitrust, the squashing of organized labor. All that has happened since then has just been the cleanup.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-29-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. If the Dems do as well as we're hoping they will this November
I think that we'll see that the game isn't over yet, whatever one wants to call it.
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