Odd that most DUers agree with the Reps rather than the Dems

[oberliner]

On the Maliki issue.

Has there been another issue at DU that has found most members disagreeing with:

Howard Dean, Barney Frank, and Harry Reid

while agreeing with:

Mitch McConnell, Dennis Hastert, and Sam Brownback?

What is going on here?

Edited to include link regarding the Maliki issue:

http://www.house.gov/schakowsky/PressRelease_7_25_06_JointHastertReleaset.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[unpossibles]

5. what is that supposed to mean?

I have seen the RWers do all of that, but do you have evidence of the Dems being racist and supporting criminal violence?

[Name removed]

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[chill_wind]

8. So very well said.

Though not exactly new, welcome to DU.

[magellan]

13. Zaka-dackly

Even more amazing, the Dems have to do all that while ignoring the fact that Maliki is an ex-pat Iraqi of the extreme Dawa sect who lived in both Syria and Iran during his long exile, was part of the wonderful Iraqi National Congress that helped BushCo lie us into Iraq in the first place, and is supported by one of the biggest Shi'a militias (aptly called death squads by the US military) on the ground in Iraq today...without which he'd probably have been found stuffed in a barrel months ago.

THAT isn't enough for the Dems to find a spine, but his one-sided excoriation of Israel -- which really should have been expected considering his background!! -- is?

The Dems have lost it, and me. I give up on them completely.

[Name removed]

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[unpossibles]

3. yeah

funny how these undeclared people can't seem to help themselves.

[Name removed]

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[oberliner]

9. How dare you, seriously.

I've been reading here for 2 years.

I agree with most of what I've read here and this has been the first place I go on the next to get info since the Kerry election.

I've only started posting six days ago but that was the first time someone posted something that I vehemently disagreed with.

Everything that I've posted on the subject of this conflict has been an attempt to share what I believe in.

I am anti-war.

I support a cease fire.

I think Israel's actions were disproportionate.

I also agree with progressive Democrats in Congress when they express the things that I have so often posted to this site.

The reaction to which has been quite frankly stunning.

Although I have appreciated the several PMs and replies of support that I have received.

I think DU is fantastic, in spite of any rude comments that have been directed my way.

I've been campaigning for progressives my whole life. And I will continue to do so.

It is really messed up that one is accused in this way for agreeing with the likes of Russ Feingold and Ned Lamont, and making reasoned civil points on this complicated issue.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

17. And in the past two years...

and all the horror they have brought the United States, there has been NOTHING on DU that prompted you to post before six days ago???

Uh....yeah...okay...

[oberliner]

19. this was a source of information, and still is

The past two years have indeed been horrible and I was always grateful to come to DU and read some sane perspectives.

(Except during the Leopold/Truthout stuff which was deranged)

I honestly didn't post because I just basically agreed or didn't know enough about a topic to add anything useful.

Six days ago I read a post here that I strongly disagreed with and so I replied to it.

Things have snowballed from there.

[Baselinereality]

18. If You've Been Reading This Site For 2 Years And...

Suddenly you read something that you "violently disagreed" with, I suggest that you haven't been reading very much. I've only been reading for two days and I'm FURIOUS!

Ha ha?

[burythehatchet]

nice catch

:rofl: What's happened to the DU I've known and loved for 6 days.

[oberliner]

15. 2 years of love

And still holding on.

6 days of posting.

If I had been posting between 2004 and now, all I really would've had to say was "right on".

[KAZ]

38. Hey, welcome to the posting world oberliner...

... I don't recall your previous posts, but I can barely recall mine! This particular topic will/has split DU right down the middle. IMHO, it's designed to. Post on!

[ecstatic]

4. No. I think certain issues truly transcend party lines

Meaning there will not be a general consensus on either side.

[Ken Burch]

10. ...What the hell?

I've been away from a computer for several days. What's this all about?

[Baselinereality]

11. If I HAD To Guess, (And Granted, It's Just a Guess),

I'd say that it's, I don't know...democracy? Free speech? The rights of the individual over the rights of the party or the state? Maybe it's because democratic-minded, progressive liberals aren't clones born out of religious tomes written thousands of years ago, but rather free-thinking, independent people with the ability to reason and think for themselves??

And those were just guess off the top of my head!

But I see your point and I agree with you.

(Secretly? No, I don't see your point. I don't even know what "the Maliki issue" is. But I defend my right to agree with you about it.)

[AlamoDemoc]

12. I think we public are used as soccer ball, and the lobbyists in Washington

....are winning.

[porphyrian]

14. Well, an argument isn't simply nay-sayings and contradictions...

Sorry.

[oberliner]

16. you know that i've made reasonable arguments

I know we disagree on a lot of this, but I have tried to make posts that reasonably present solutions to the conflict.

BTW, is your subject line quoting Monty Python?

[porphyrian]

20. Yes, in fact that was the only meaning of my post...

...as well as the reason for the apology. ;)

[Rabrrrrrr]

24. Look, if I'm going to argue with you I must take a contrary position...

[porphyrian]

25. But that's not just saying, "no it isn't." - n/t

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. Yes it is!

[porphyrian]

28. No it isn't. An argument is an intellectual process...

Contradiction is just the automatic nay-saying of any statement the other person makes.

[Rabrrrrrr]

30. ... ... ... ...

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No it isn't.

[oberliner]

32. sorry your five minutes is up

[porphyrian]

33. Yes it is. - n/t

[Rabrrrrrr]

35. Not at all!

[porphyrian]

41. Now look... - n/t

[Rabrrrrrr]

47. Good morning!

[porphyrian]

48. What? - n/t

[Rabrrrrrr]

51. That's it. Good morning!

[porphyrian]

52. It was just getting interesting. - n/t

[Rabrrrrrr]

53. Sorry. The five minutes are up.

[porphyrian]

54. That was never five minutes... - n/t

[Rabrrrrrr]

55. I'm afraid it was.

And, I'm afraid it's time for me to go home! Sorry - I w on't be able to finish this skit.

But it's been fun!

:hi:

[porphyrian]

56. Well, good timing anyway. - n/t

[Democrats_win]

21. Remember when speaking at a joint session was special?

It seems that Britain's Churchill and Thatcher were just of the few worthy people that got to speak to a joint session. No matter what our opinions of the current Israel/Lebanon situation, All Americans would hopefully agree that this guy does not deserve this honor.

[Baselinereality]

27. Joint Sessions Are Still Special...

As long as someone remembers to bring a roach clip!

But, no, seriously: this is a President who thinks inviting a foreign dignitary to a ranch to clear brush is a Special Occasion, so is it really that surprising that our standards and dignity have slipped a bit in recent years over who gets to address Congress?

We need to bring those top hats back, like the one JFK wore to his inauguration, that's what we need to do.

[Redstone]

22. Oh, bullshit. We can have an opinion different from yours, and it does

NOT mean we're "siding with the Republicans."

That's just a really tacky thing to say.

What, are we supposed to be SHEEP and always agree with what our "leaders" say, like Republicans do?

Redstone

[oberliner]

31. not siding with the republicans

just agreeing with them on this particular issue.

I am not saying anyone should be sheep and always agree with what the "leaders" say.

I honestly, seriously, wanted to know if there has every been an issue that has created this sort of dichotomy.

It just seems weird to me that there is this disagreement.

Honestly, I am sorry I brought it up. I do not want to cause any trouble.

I have my opinion on the issue, and I feel strongly about them, but I don't mean to cause trouble for DU.

I do think that those who take the Dean position on this are catching a lot of heat for it.

I agree with Dean on this. Most here don't. I think that is odd. That's it.

[Redstone]

34. Well, how about immigration? You've been reading DU for two years,

you MUST have seen how divisive that one was.

Redstone

[oberliner]

39. yes, that one and

whether or not Jason Leopold's story was accurate was also divisive.

This issue though seems to take the cake.

[havocmom]

40. Good point Redstone.

Did we ever get that one sorted out? :shrug:

And then there were the Children Behaving Badly in Restaurants Wars! Gads, I still have scars!

[Redstone]

42. And Those Evil Smokers, too!

Redstone

[liberalpragmatist]

23. Because I think the House Dems are WRONG on this

Is Maliki anti-Semitic? Yeah, probably. Just look at his background. He comes from an Islamist party with a history of close ties with Hezbollah.

I'm not condoning those views. And should he be condemned for that? Yes. But as the leader of a supposedly sovereign nation, he should be allowed to ally himself in whichever way he wants. It's absolutely unrealistic and extremely arrogant to insist that the Iraqi government follow the American line on this issue. There is NO Arab government that is going to support Israel's actions. And for a precarious, democratically-elected Shi'ite government of Iraq, there is no way they can condemn Hezbollah and stay in power, given the level of support that group faces in Southern Iraq.

And although I've generally been far more forgiving of Congressional Dems these past 2 years than most DU'ers (I think they've been quite effective on a number of fronts), their mid-east policy, outside of Iraq, has been disastrous. Instead of doing what is sensible, they keep trying to outhawk the Republicans when it comes to being anti-Arab; first there was the Dubai ports deal, then the demogagung (sp?) of Maliki's amnesty plan, now trying to get him to commit political suicide?

[Baselinereality]

36. Nancy Pelosi Can No More Get Maliki To Commit

political suicide than Mary Cheney can get George Bush to push legislation legalizing gay marriage.

The more we try to discuss the subtle nuances of the political dance that is Middle Eastern politics, the more we look like jackasses. (No offense.)

This whole area has been a delicate disaster waiting to explode/implode ever since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Just because we've now got a Decider instead of a President doesn't mean that the issues have suddenly become crystal clear.

And I personally believe that who ever was opposed to Maliki's statements regarding Israel's actions was just pandering to THEIR congressional districts. Either that or they were pandering to the Israeli lobby.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that no one in Baghdad gives a poop what some two-term congresswoman from Duluth thinks about Maliki's speech.

[sendero]

43. The best post in the thread..

... welcome to DU :)

[Baselinereality]

46. *Blush*

Thank you very much!

I'll remember your compliment when some anonymous moderator bans me someday. (I tend to get snippy and pissy if I drink and type.)

[Sparkly]

29. Yes, gun control.

Not to derail the thread, but it seems a lot of DUers prefer the Republican party's position on gun control to the Democratic party's position.

[RoyGBiv]

37. Yeah, odd ...

Odd how this group doesn't follow the party line like so many lemmings.

Also odd how words like "most" are used. You've done a statistically relevant study? If so, give us the data and methodology.

[oberliner]

45. no just going off posts and surveys

I did not do a statistically relevant study.

I could post Dean's comment and Brownback's comment and we can see informally which one more people agree with, but then I would be accused of causing trouble.

[Baselinereality]

49. Is "Trouble" A Synonym For "Irrelevant?"

Have we become so incredibly partisan in this country that two incredibly different politicians are NEVER supposed to agree with each other? Is that what we've come to? Because I'm pretty sure that life is a little bit more complicated than that.

For example, the Senate recently passed a law 100-0 AGAINST fetal farming, did you know that? Patrick Leahy and Sam Brownback hold the same position on fetal farming!

And they're against it! Which I'm sure comes as a shock to everyone.

Please tell me what I am to glean from that.

Speaking of which...

Does anyone remember "Gleem" toothpaste? Or Pearl Drops--I used to love that one! I wonder if they still make it any more.

But I might be drifting off-topic...

[RoyGBiv]

58. Informally ...

So, what you're saying here is, then, that you chose to start a thread painting DU with a broad brush, in the context of criticism of a variety intended to suggest members of DU agree more with Republicans and Democrats, at least on a certain, very important issue, and you based this on no statistically relevant information and without doing any sort of formal analysis. Based on some of your responses above, I am then assuming you're at least presenting a face of shock that you have been taken to task so.

Now, if you want to talk about odd things, *that* is odd.

Ya know, if you go to a certain forum on DU, you might, incorrectly, come away thinking that everyone here thinks George Bush flew the planes into the WTC himself, both of them, first the one, teleporting to the other, then teleporting to some "undisclosed location." And, if you went to another forum, you might come away thinking everyone on DU is a scientific genius, or another, a bunch of photographers, or another people who don't really care anything about politics and just want to make bad jokes all day. Such examples are extreme or absurd, and that's the point. You can read a 200 message thread and only really get the opinion of half a dozen people, in a forum with nearly 100,000 registered members, several thousand of which post daily. Throwing out such casual comments pretending to indicate what "most" DUers think is just as absurd as my examples, yet quite a bit more confrontational, not to mention more than a little naive.

And as for you suggestion of an "informal" poll of sorts, I say again, bring me the statistically relevant study of what "most" of us believe, and we'll talk. Polls on DU are like polls on CNN, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing ... except the Photo Contest poll, which everyone reading this should go vote in right now.

So, please don't play coy. You knew this would get the reaction it did. There are better ways to make a point. My humble suggestion is that you find one. Starting with presenting *your* position and inviting others to comment might be an excellent place to start, certainly better than telling everyone else what they believe and implicitly condemning them with sarcasm without offering an actual opinion at all.

Have a nice day and happy wedge issue to you.

[Bluebear]

44. ..

.

[Rose Siding]

50. Where's the DU poll that indicated that?

[Malikshah]

57. When it comes to the I/P and I/A issue

I disagree w/ *any* politician who is ill-informed and browbeaten by The Lobby.

Dean, Frank, Reid are. As are McConnel, Hastert, and Brownback.

Nice of the OP to drive the wedge issue though.

Eyesight must be a bear though...all that burrowing under the lawn and all and avoiding traps.