The War of 1812, would we have won without New Orleans!?

[Rex]

I'm not gonna say 'discuss'. :evilgrin:

[MnFats]

1. it was all over before New Orleans.

is this a trick question?

[Rex]

3. Actually I was thinking about the battle of New Olreans.

http://lsm.crt.state.la.us/cabildo/cab6.htm

Over before then? Really?

[AnOhioan]

8. Treaty of Ghent, ending the war, signed on 12/24/1814

Battle of New Orleans took place the following month. No-one knew the Treaty had been signed due to the lack of rapid communications.

[Rex]

10. Battle was going on during the signing

Lasted a month.

[Johnyawl]

11. the Battle of New Orleans was fought two weeks AFTER the war ended

The treaty of Ghent, which formally ended the war was signed by Britain and the US on Dec 24, 1814, the Battle of New Orleans was fought on Jan 8, 1815.

The Senate ratified the treaty on Feb 16; president madison signed it on Feb 18.

Had there been any form of rapid communication the Battle would never have been fought. One of our great military victories was completely unnecessary.

[Rex]

9. This guy too, he seems pretty cool too.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/americana/lafitte/main.htm

'He has been called "The Corsair," "The Buccaneer," "The King of Barataria," "The Terror of the Gulf," "The Hero of New Orleans". At three separate times, U.S. presidents have condemned, exonerated and again condemned his actions. He is known for his piracy in the Gulf of Mexico, and lauded for his heroism in the Battle of New Orleans. Each personae seems to balance the other. He hated being called "pirate," for, as he saw it, he was a "privateer" serving an economic purpose in an economically frugal time in a new country that needed to economize. When he at last sailed away from American shores, he felt betrayed by a country that didn’t understand the difference.'

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. And Yul Brenner, playing him in the movie, stole the show from

Charleton Heston.

[Rex]

16. Moses had his day in the sun.

nt

[MnFats]

22. Yul was Pharoh. Charlton Heston was Moses:

"Behold His Mighty Power."


and the guy who had the role of one of Aaron's helpers in decieving the Hebrews? He went on to star in "F Troop." Serious.

[Rex]

23. I loved F Troop!

I'd watch Hogan's Heroes, Shane? Shame? A Man Named Shame maybe? Then f Troop! I miss being a kid. :(

[RB TexLa]

2. And if the Louisiana legislature had followed the will of it's people

and not seceded the riots of the 1860's would have ended much sooner.

[Rex]

4. True but at least that was a civil war.

This was Britain trying to gain another military foothold in our new country.

[RB TexLa]

5. I prefer to call it organized riots

[wagthedogwar]

6. historical revisionism strikes again

...how exactly do you win the war of 1812?

[SaveElmer]

7. Battle of New Orleans was an exclamation point...but still very important!

On a war that had already ended...still it had lasting effects...

The British were impressed and it did help the U.S. in future dealings in the northwest...

It launched the career of Andrew Jackson, one of the the 5 most important Presidents in history...the architect of the modern presidency...


So it wasn't a non-event, it did have profound consequences...it just didn't have any effect on the outcome of the war

[Rex]

12. If Jackson would have lost then the British would have controlled

New Orleans and the biggest coastal port at that time on that coastline. I just wish people would realize it historical value and push the federal gummit to get off it's so called 'patriotic' ass and help fix the situation.

[wagthedogwar]

13. You did not win the war of 1812

The War of 1812 (in Britain, the American War of 1812 to 1815), was fought between the United States and the British Empire from 1812 to 1815, on land in North America and at sea. The United States, which declared war and attacked British colonies and shipping first, ended the war without gaining any territory, its invasion of British North America having been defeated by British, Canadian and aboriginal forces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

[starroute]

15. Not true -- the US got Mobile, Alabama out of it

Not much, I grant you, but (presumably) better than nothing.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. Yep. The second war in our history (if you don't include the

action against the Barbary pirates) and the first one in which we got out butts handed to us, but we went and declared victory anyway. We tried to take Canada, but got our capital burned instead. The Battle of New Orleans was the only significant US victory of the war, and it was a defensive battle fought on US soil -- which is not a favored way to fight a war.

[SaveElmer]

29. U.S. won some significant naval battles on the Great Lakes...

And the repulse of the British at Baltimore was certainly an American victory..

[rockymountaindem]

26. We did achieve our war aims

Or should I say, our war aim, which was to end the impressment of sailors aboard US ships into the Royal Navy. In addition we ended the British boycott of US cotton exports, which was a major impetus for the war in the south. The invasion of Canada was not a war aim, but a tactic used to achieve a strategic objective. James Monroe, the Sec. of State, said so much before our invasion ran into touble. IIRC, his exact words were, "The invasion of Canada is not the object of the war, but a means to bring it to a satisfactory conclusion". Need I remind you, the British/Canadian invasions of the US fared little better than our invasion of Upper Canada, culminating in the Battle of New Orleans, which remains the most one-sided battle victory ever. The US achived its war aims, and thus can claim a victory in the war. To be fair, Upper Canada can also claim a victory, because they were not occupied for any length of time. But next time you start bragging about the burning of Washington, remember that our man Zeb Pike put the torch to Toronto as well.

I'm tired of having this argument with Canadians, of which I suspect you are one, but I've gotten pretty good at it I think.

[wagthedogwar]

27. beleive what you must

no one is bragging about the burning of DC, just remember that it was in revenge for the burning of Toronto.

You also won in VietNam and i'm sure Iraq as well, eventually.

[rockymountaindem]

30. You can believe what you must too

The burning of Washington was an attempt to break the cohesion of the US by splitting the pro-war south away from the anti-war north. The Brits also believed, in their European way, that capturing the capital would end the war all by itself. Nobody in London cared much for little ol' York, which was at that point hardly a speck on the map. And Canadians do brag about the burning of Washington, I know because I go to school in Canada.

As for putting words in my mouth about Vietnam, you might be surprised what I really think about that war. However, as far as the War of 1812 goes, I personally think everybody (Britain, the BNA colonies and the USA) all achieved their aims.

[SaveElmer]

28. Well first of all...show me where I said Americans won the war...

I simply said the Battle of New Orleans did not affect the outcome of the War...

Secondly, some might say the illegal impressment of American sailors by British ships was an act of war, and therefore the first overt acts.

[DanCa]

18. The only thing I know is what Johnny Horton said. :D) (nt)

[Rex]

19. LOL nice!

nt

[DanCa]

20. LOL. Johnny don't lie. I wish I had the lyrics though. (nt)

[Rex]

21. The Battle for New Olreans!

Wow, I didn't know he only lived to be 35! That's my age! :(

[AnOhioan]

24. Ask and ye shall recieve.....

In 1814 we took a little trip
Along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip.
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans
And we caught the bloody British in the town of New Orleans.

Chorus:
We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin' on
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

We looked down the river and we see'd the British come.
And there must have been a hundred of'em beatin' on the drum.
They stepped so high and they made the bugles ring.
We stood by our cotton bales and didn't say a thing.

Chorus

Old Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise
If we didn't fire our muskets 'til we looked 'em in the eye
We held our fire 'til we see'd their faces well.
Then we opened up with squirrel guns and really gave 'em ... well

Chorus

Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.**

We fired our cannon 'til the barrel melted down.
So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round.
We filled his head with cannon balls, and powdered his behind
And when we touched the powder off, the gator lost his mind.

Chorus

Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.**

[Rex]

25. I love that tune you can sing it to many other lyrics like Davey Crockett.

And who could ever forget The Beverly Hillbillies! :rofl: