Wot?! Clinton, Schumer to Vote for Bolton?

[earthside]

Rachael Maddow mentioned on her radio program this morning that the word is out that Senators Clinton and Schumer might switch and vote to confirm John Bolton for UN ambassador!

The change, she said, was so Clinton and Schumer could show support for Israel's attacks and invasion of Lebanon.

Wots up with this?

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. That's just an excuse

When you look at Clinton's voting record in the Senate, you can see that she is a Lieberman style "Democrat."

[itzamirakul]

45. According to the Mearsheimer/Walt paper, "The Israel Lobby," Bolton

is a staunch member of what is referred to as "The Lobby" all of whom are 100% pro-Israel, regardless of what is best for American national interests.

http://www.londonreviewofbooks.com/v28/n06/mear01_.html

[no_hypocrisy]

2. This is political posturing. They're announcing to the Senate

that they can change their votes depending upon the "trade" for a republican vote for something in the future that they want more than Bolton not getting installed. (Clinton and Schumer have presupposed he'll get in and thus, each can make this trade without losing the status quo.) This is a simple "vote for sale" announcement.

[SaveElmer]

28. Here we go...

Everyone jumps off the deep end in response to rumors...and then always have to pull back...

Why don't we wait until actual facts become apparent!

[Protagoras]

31. Yah know sometimes it isn't about a "DEAL"

it's very simply about doing what is right. Bolton is wrong...doesn't matter what other theoretical deal may or may not come in the future (Seem to remember a couple of fillibusters in the past that had this problem).

He's a maggot in the soul of the UN and he needs to be gone gone gone. Anyone dedicated to peace and progressive values knows that and should vote accordingly. We aren't talking swapping some road pork here, we're talking our Global Future.

[Generator]

50. Good post about Bolton

But do what is right? BWAHHHHHHHHHH Again, are you shitting me? They only thing they ever care about doing right is apparently only right for numero uno. Getting elected is all they care about. The souless wonders. As long as they get elected, they can keep voting for whatever Herr Bush wants. What a time. It boggles the mind.

And if they really believe there is something MORE important in the future, and the Republican would actually keep his word, please. No and no. Bolton was snuck in by the unitary executive. On principal ALONE, yeah I know they don't know that word-they should can his nasty ass.

They are corrupt, dumb and deluded. I can't figure out which is the top one.

[flyarm]

32. SEEMS TO ME THATS THE SAME MENTALITY OF THE

bull crap of fillibuster and nuclear option...we all heard and were snookered by the idea..well they are holding off for the bad supreme court nominees..and how did that play out??

we need to face facts...hillary is no dem..and neither is schumer...they are dlc through and through

their #1 concern should be the USA ..period...

not isreal , not germany , not ireland..not england..

the USA..and this man is evil ..down to his core..

and Hillary and Schumer are both very aware of PNAC"s plan..and it seems they are selling our souls and theirs for that end result..if they were to vote to confirm this mad man!

Bolton is not a diplomat..and Hillary and Schumer are damn well aware of that..they know he is a shit stirrer and a monster..and a hard core neo con...and he is eyeball high in the New World Order...

so if they were to support this mad man..they would be surely showing their cards and colors..

thats how i see it..

just my 2 cents..

fly

[no_hypocrisy]

42. I don't claim to know their true motivations. I am only pointing

out that a senator's vote is more than executing the popular choice of his/her constituents. A senator's existence is joining ad hoc coalitions within and without their party; otherwise, there would be few cross-over votes and each vote would be straight dem or repuke depending on the party's position. Sometimes a vote is an investment toward the political venture in the future, sometimes not.

All I'm saying the motivation behind a senator's (or representative's) vote is not black-and-white.

[Generator]

49. Are you shitting me?

They actually BELIEVE and trust a Republican to keep his word? My GOD, we are doomed. It sounds funny, but damn I'm serious.

[checkmate1947]

3. If this is true

She better enjoy being a senator because she will never be anything more.

[Swamp Rat]

5. Hope Springs Eternal

[shadowknows69]

8. Who is the other guy in the backgroud Swamp Rat?

I recognise Don Sutherland from Invasion of the body Snatchers: The first remake. Is that Doug Neidemeier from Animal House?

p.s. I really might have to put that pic on my New York oreinted website. The people up here would either get a hoot out of it or string me up for it, not sure.

[Swamp Rat]

12. Bushler

:D

[shadowknows69]

16. Ah got it

Hilary on toast. OMG. You are a sick genius my friend. Honored to know ya. lol.

[Cocoa]

23. what are you hoping for?

Bolton being defeated or Hillary being defeated?

[shadowknows69]

41. Both

n/t

[Swamp Rat]

48. ditto

see post #47. :D

[Cocoa]

57. suppose Hillary filibustered Bolton?

would that change your thinking any?

[shadowknows69]

61. It might

it would go a long way. I don't write anybody off.

[Cocoa]

63. did it change your thinking last year?

[Greyhound]

55. Sounds good to me. There are a few more names I'd add too. n/t

[Cocoa]

58. suppose Hillary filibustered Bolton?

would that change your thinking any?

[Swamp Rat]

47. BOTH! ... and all the DLC meat heads and their brainless sycophants!

[LincolnMcGrath]

60. OMG Swamp Rat! Aren't you worried the dlcentrist-zellocrats will

fly into a rage over that picture?

:yourock:

[shadowknows69]

62. I'm sure SR hopes they will

A maker of mischief that Swamp Rat of ours is. Thank the Gods.

[Swamp Rat]

67. Nope

:D

They go after me all the time. See?



The DLC zombies are part of the problem, maybe as much as the refucklicans.

[Hippo_Tron]

65. Swamp Rat, I gotta say...

I didn't know that you were making Democratic lizards now. The only Dem I've seen you do was Zell and obviously that doesn't count.

[Swamp Rat]

68. I don't make them lizards! Bushler's cabal makes the lizards,

like the former Dems who are now 'DLC lizards.'

I am HUMAN, though they've tried to plant pods to change me into one of THEM. Since Katrina destroyed my bed I sleep on a wooden floor now, so it's hard to put a pod under a non-existent bed. :)

[Hippo_Tron]

69. I'm with ya

That sucks that Katrina destroyed your bed.

[Swamp Rat]

71. Hell, she took off 16 feet of my roof and destroyed the ceilings

I still have huge holes in my ceilings because I can't get the contractors to fix them! I had to fire two contractors and the third took my money and left without doing the work - months later I'm wating for them to come back and do the work they were paid for... Fucking huge roaches come in EVERY NIGHT by the dozens, and debris and dust! It's a miracle I am still sane... well, sort of sane. :D

You know, there's really no justice for those with little or no money. Justice is bought and paid for in this country.

[hlthe2b]

4. Angry, depressed, frustrated, devastated, incredulous, bitter,

inconsolable, emotional....... and so on down the list. I simply don't know how to feel about our supposed DEM leadership any more... I guess I'll go stand in the shower for however long it takes to feel human again....Oh, yes, guess I can't waste that much water, right? Somehow I still care...:shrug:

[QuettaKid]

6. $ $ $ $ $

a little AIPAC money goes a long way.....and a LOT of AIPAC money goes even further.


just sayin'.

[shadowknows69]

7. Fuck this state

I Love New York but I can't stand who we choose for our reps. I'm even fearing that Spitzer might be more hype than action. Hope not.

[acmejack]

14. See this on Elliot to confirm your worst fears...

Eliot Spitzer, Wimp or, Why the New York attorney general isn't strong-arming white-collar shysters.

http://www.slate.com/id/2100951/

[shadowknows69]

17. He's good at getting money from poor people

His office tracked down a 15 year old student loan that I'm default on. Only about 2500. They seized my bank accounts without warning one day when we had like $600 in checks out which all of course bounced because the funds were frozen. I'm the deadbeat who let the loan go obviously but they could have had a little compassion because he almost put my wife and I on the streets.

[readmoreoften]

73. I can't wait to vote for Tasini.

I'll be the proudest handle I ever pulled.

[acmejack]

9. Enough!

Their swinish triangulating bullshit side is showing. They are abandoning what they see as the "radical left", just as our DLC "friends" here keep reminding us that we are. Don't you think the constant reminders that virtually the entire Democratic Party supports Israel's Military action serves a purpose? It is tell us we are being further marginalized within the Party.

I have absolutely had it with these sellout fraudulent assholes. I hope they hold their collective breathes awaiting receipt of one thin dime from me. I am seriously considering whether the Party is right for me now. I know the assholes will swarm on me, saying "Leave!" and perhaps I should. It becomes increasingly obvious we have wildly divergent and irreconcilable viewpoints on so many things.

I realize they are not in power, but I really expect very little change. There are so few that really carry the torch for us.

[Cascadian]

13. The left is becoming irrelevant within the Democratic Party

You can thank the DLC for that. The division of ther party is running deeper as years go by. What can we do to end the DLC domination?


John

[acmejack]

18. They have proven effective at blunting our initiatives.

Their work in Illinois CD-6 was a major win for them. Christine Cegalis had it all going for her, she was a sure winner. She was poised, polished, and confident. They brought in an out of district candidate, a war vet, double amputee, brought in all the Party heavies to campaign for her and most importantly mountains of CASH. And still they barely won. Despite being outspent by a huge margin, Cegalis showed what a smart targeted use of funds could deliver, and set an example of how to run an effective shoestring grassroots campaign, a lesson she is teaching to others now.

As long as people are OK with stepping back in time with fossils like Mr. Pro Life Casey instead of progressives like Pennachio, I just don't know. The fact that 51% of the Democrats in Pennsylvania aren't standing up a screaming for the right to control their bodies is puzzling to me for certain! I believe the time draws ever closer for the establishment of a Progressive Populist Party. We have tried to work within the system, I think we are going to have to go without, we cannot continue to spend our money on a Party whose members are actively attempting to sabotage our agenda. I will not continue to spend my limited funds on a Party which will not stand up for my interests, the things which are important to me, my family, and my community.

[KoKo]

26. David Sirota is a good leader for

the building the foundations of a Progressive Populist Party. His writings give a good blueprint for how such a flegling party can differentiate them selves from the DoNothingDems who follow the same failed campaign ops plans election after election and fall all over themselves apologizing whenever one of them tries to take a stand on any issue that would set us apart from the Repugs.

Not only does he write well he has political experience and isn't afraid of speaking out and not backing down. If it wasn't for his writings I would be very discouraged and without hope right now.

[flyarm]

39. they have done the same thing all over fla...but you can do something

get involved...and then stick it up their asses!

but there will be no change unless you get involved and all citizens get involved...

the dlc is trying to pad their people in the dem party and that can only happen if you let it!
recognise it..and do something about it..

fly

[flyarm]

38. hold on..and get involved..locally and you will see results! i promise

in my county in fla.;progressives just took over the DEC this week..the same old same old..clique was just booted out the door..

they were not supporting the good candidates ..they were running rethug transplants against good candidates..
they ignored and ridiculed those working on election machine fraud and were downright rude to activists who work their asses off...

there are some ,many of us thought were jeb infiltraitors in our party...we were ignored about our concerns..and these so called infiltraitors were put in as heads of dem clubs..

i quit the oldest womens dem club in the country over a lady i believe is a republican infiltraitor..because i was ignored over my concerns of this woman and so have many others ( quit)..and we have served notice we will not return until she is booted out..

and we just got a very progressive new dec chair..

in fact he won by a landslide..

over the old clique..of middle of the road..passifiers..

people are pissed folks..if this could happen in very south fla..why can't it happen in ny or in your county..

there was and is a feeling .. i am seeing...and it's...."we are mad as hell and not going to take it anymore"...this should be a wake up call to many running the dem party..

the old bullshit is not washing anymore...

we are not waiting for false prophets...we are taking our party back..and get the hell out of our way..is the feeling i am seeing..

so i say ...do not give up..

get out and get up and go to meetings and take it back..and if you don't like what you are seeing..do something about it..

now, when the vote was taken this week and the "clique" didn't get their nominee elected..the retiring chair walked out of the meeting abruptly..

they were served their notice..and they didn't like it ..and i say tough..

we are all responsible for taking our party back ..from the bottom up...from our locals and up...

but that will not happen until all of us engage and get involved..

unless you do get involved .. .your priorities as citizens will never be fullfilled..

remember..corporations are not citizens..you are...

and the only change that has ever been made in this country and for a democracy.. ..was made by citizens!

join your local DNC and DEC..get involved..now..the clock is ticking...

i used to say..what can i do..i can't make change..i don't have a voice..well i was wrong..

and after 9/11 and my co-workers were killed....i moved to fla..and i was new and knew no one..but i went and joined the dec to do something ..to get truth out there..

well low and behold..i ran for a delegate to the Dem convention..and i never ran for homeroom queen..but not only did i run for that election..i won..with the most votes and beat out all the old tired politicians who were in office for years and years...who thought they were shoo in's..

and i got and now get... my voice heard..

you too, can do what i did...i got off my ass and demanded changes..

and it didn't come fast ..but it sure just happened...

and notice has gone out..to any dem in my large county in fla..and to the powers that be in the state dnc ...what used to be will.. be no longer..

either do your job or you will be removed..

do what we want..or get the hell out of the way..we are mad as hell and we are taking our party back!

fly

[acmejack]

44. I am active in the Dem Party locally to some extent.

There is some amount of good old boyism even at the local level, but these guys can't live forever. We are making good progress here and are seeing light at the end of the tunnel to some extent. We had some success last election, this time will be a bellwether for us here in Texas.

[flyarm]

46. wonderful!! keep fighting..its all we can do!! n/t

[never_get_over_it]

72. What county in FL - if you don't mind me asking - eom

[marmar]

10. If that's true, then Clinton and Schumer are back-stabbing vermin...

The people of New York deserve better.

[Cascadian]

11. Why does this not surprise me?

Yet another example of Democrats enabling the Neocons. :eyes:

[Double T]

15. Time to begin the search for a new political party............

Democrats are acting more like rethuglicans each day. Must be in the drinking water in D.C.

[acmejack]

19. Please see 18

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Well, they're "not as bad" as the Republicans.

Isn't that the usual cover used by the apologists for the collabortionist wing of the party?

[RethugAssKicker]

21. Its Time for a NEW PARTY....

I've had it with the Dem leaders... They're all sellouts

or Rethug-Lite

[acmejack]

22. We have leaders?

[Cocoa]

24. they defeated Bolton last year

[flyarm]

40. see post #38 please..

[MadHound]

25. Just another example

Of the two party/same corporate master system of government in action. Are you waking up yet? Are you fully cognizant of what has been and is continuing to happen in this country? And finally, are you finally pissed off enough to do something about it.

Face it friends, the Democratic party doesn't give a damn about the left anymore. Their standard reply is "Who else ya gonna vote for, a Republican, har dee har har" Well, I think that it has been time for a long while for the left, the base of the party, to show what the party that yes, they actually need us and that they actually need to pay attention our needs and wishes.

A very wise man defined insanity stating that it is doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result every time. We on the left have been engaged in this insanity for the past thirty years. Don't you think it is time we woke up, throw off the shackles of madness and take back our own party and destiny. No, we don't have the big bucks that the corporate whores and the DLCers have, but we do have one thing that they can't touch, and that is our vote. It is high time we started using that.

[Joanne98]

27. I'm so sick of this shit.

[spanone]

29. It's called spineless politicians. Worthless to the bone.

[Cocoa]

30. Bolton hearing is on c-span now

in case anyone really cares about the Bolton nomination (as opposed to hypocritically using the Bolton nomination to bash the dems).

[Karmadillo]

33. There are days when I really miss Paul Wellstone.

nt

[Cocoa]

34. they filibustered Bolton last year without Wellstone

n/t

[Karmadillo]

35. I know.

nt

[Cocoa]

36. many people don't know it

so I thought I'd point it out.

[Karmadillo]

37. Thank you

nt

[MamaBear]

43. What a surprise!

:sarcasm:

[Scout1071]

51. I will never vote for her. NEVER. Hear me DNC?

I'm not even going to discuss it anymore. If the Dems want to lose in '08, nominate Hillary, cause this hardcore Dem won't even fucking consider it anymore.

[LSK]

52. dont you mean DLC??

What does DNC have to do with it???? They are trying to win races at the local level....

[Scout1071]

53. All things Democratic. Every committee, organization, think tank,

whoever. Do not for one second think that she is going to get my support. In that case, I see a 3rd party candidate have a real impact because there are just too many people on both sides of the aisle that feel so strongly.

[Cocoa]

56. based on a NY Sun article?

:crazy:

[librechik]

54. Israel Rules

literally

[Cocoa]

59. why were they able to violate these rules last year?

when they filibustered Bolton?

[librechik]

64. 06 is an election year

and now Israel is demanding it as a wartime thing /

just guessing

[Cocoa]

66. that's a reasonable guess

now, suppose the dems do filibuster Bolton again.

That would mean they resisted even greater pressure than they did last year. Would you agree?

[mtnsnake]

70. This thread is full of over-reactions by a bunch of frickin babies

At this point, it's only heresay, yet everyone is stabbing the shit out of these two people who just happen to be fine Senators for the state of NY. Some of you are even using this thread to jump all over Spitzer, who happens to be one of our best Democratic hopefuls of the future. What a collective group of WHINERS you are. The only thing most of you are good at is bashing Democrats and COMPLAINING and CRYING about everything else under the sun.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh