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Why are Dem leaders so loudly supporting Israel's attack on Lebanon?

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:40 AM
Original message
Poll question: Why are Dem leaders so loudly supporting Israel's attack on Lebanon?
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Becasue like all politicians, they are PIGS!!!
My dad alwasy said all wars and politics are about MONEY...
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. They're afraid, of course.
Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 09:49 AM by DireStrike
Of being attacked by the republicans.

I don't know about the Israel lobby, but if that's true, they're afraid of it too. Even if it's not true, they'd be afraid of it.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. They are terrified of making a stand on principle.
You know, the same old-same old. AIPAC scares them to death.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. Is there any other foreign government who...
has more control over U.S. politics than Israel? I don't think so.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. not even close, but as we are seeing with neocons, it's partly because
Israel's policy dovetails with ours of beating down any strong Arab leaders. For Israel, this is so they won't face any serious military attacks. For us, it's so oil companies won't have to give a fair price to the people who live their for their oil.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. AIPAC
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Ignoramus Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. I don't know
I don't think othere know either. I would imagine it would be a combination of factors.

Investing in the notion that they are afraid of the Israel lobby may not be the best idea. If they are manipulatable by the Israel lobby, then it could mean that they are just kind of whorish. Saying they are afraid of the lobby has connotations that may not be appropriate.

They are continuing the democrat's policy of unconditional preference for Israel against the entire middle-east. That's the important idea.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. They Are Speaking In Accordance With The Party's Platform, Sir
And in line with long experience of what the domestic political realities on the matter are. Even where people may feel some Israeli action or other is excessive, they generally continue supportive of Israel as a good country they feel some affinity with, and maintain a greater distaste for its opponents, who they view in most instances as being also opponents of this country.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. I would question the SANITY of a Dem Politician who supported Hezbollah

EOM
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. so only options are unqualified support for Israel or same for Hezbollah?
Did you learn your debating skills by watching Fox News?

As bad as Hezbollah is, there must be legitimate greivances they are tapping into if they are as popular with the Lebanese as they are.

Also, we have treated Israel with kid gloves compared to even our other allies.

International troops were able to successfully separate the combatants in Cyprus for decades, but Israel has vetoed that solution for Palestine, and we have let them veto it.
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QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. they are afraid of the Israeli lobbyists
that have no influence at all on US policies in the ME. They're just good friends.
:sarcasm:
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. Think about what this poll is suggesting
"They are afraid of the Israeli lobby" is by far the most popular answer to this question.

So Russ Feingold, Barney Frank, Ted Kennedy, Ned Lamont, Wes Clark, Howard Dean are all so unprincipled as to be willing to take a position that goes against their own opinions because of the Israeli lobby?

Why bother to work and campaign to get progressive Democrats elected if they are just going to violate their own values because they are afraid of a lobby group?

How insulting that is to all of these good people!








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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. so because they are good on some or most issues, we can't question
them on others?

This 'with us or against us' talking point is getting pretty transparent.

Why can't you defend Israel and their allies here on the merits of their actions?

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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. I honestly do not know why both political parties are so committed
to Israeli-exceptionalism. I do not know why the range of debate on the subject within the mainstream of American politics and the mainstream American media is so limited; far more limited than it is within Israel itself. I do not know why it is far more acceptable in mainstream American politics and mainstream American media to criticize American military actions than to criticize Israeli military actions.

I do not know why any of this is the case. But it is insane.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I do, or at least I have an idea:
It's called institutional memory. Support for Israel is ingrained within the Institutions of our Government, and trancends individual lawmakers. Of course there's more to it than that, and AIPAC figures in as well, but no, it's not all about being bought and sold.
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QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. yes, there is more to it than that...
the being bought and sold.
can't say tho.
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
17. Who would vote for somebody who is "soft" on "terra"?
Edited on Fri Jul-28-06 01:14 AM by Nutmegger
Many wouldn't.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. we should have been much harder on Tara both the dumb actress and
the big house on the plantations in the South.

But we shouldn't let our friends kill random Arabs just to look tough in time for an election.

That's almost like a human sacrifice.

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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
18. here's the best "concise" explanation for why we are where we are:
Edited on Fri Jul-28-06 01:40 AM by Gabi Hayes
The Israel Lobby
John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt

''For the past several decades, and especially since the Six-Day War in 1967, the centrepiece of US Middle Eastern policy has been its relationship with Israel. The combination of unwavering support for Israel and the related effort to spread ‘democracy’ throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardised not only US security but that of much of the rest of the world. This situation has no equal in American political history. Why has the US been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state? One might assume that the bond between the two countries was based on shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, but neither explanation can account for the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the US provides.

Instead, the thrust of US policy in the region derives almost entirely from domestic politics, and especially the activities of the ‘Israel Lobby’. Other special-interest groups have managed to skew foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that US interests and those of the other country – in this case, Israel – are essentially identical.

Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing that given to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct economic and military assistance since 1976, and is the largest recipient in total since World War Two, to the tune of well over $140 billion (in 2004 dollars). Israel receives about $3 billion in direct assistance each year, roughly one-fifth of the foreign aid budget, and worth about $500 a year for every Israeli. This largesse is especially striking since Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to that of South Korea or Spain.

Other recipients get their money in quarterly installments, but Israel receives its entire appropriation at the beginning of each fiscal year and can thus earn interest on it. Most recipients of aid given for military purposes are required to spend all of it in the US, but Israel is allowed to use roughly 25 per cent of its allocation to subsidise its own defence industry. It is the only recipient that does not have to account for how the aid is spent, which makes it virtually impossible to prevent the money from being used for purposes the US opposes, such as building settlements on the West Bank. Moreover, the US has provided Israel with nearly $3 billion to develop weapons systems, and given it access to such top-drawer weaponry as Blackhawk helicopters and F-16 jets. Finally, the US gives Israel access to intelligence it denies to its Nato allies and has turned a blind eye to Israel’s acquisition of nuclear weapons.''

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

I saw them on Washington Journal discussing this article, and it was amazing to see the reaction, which they predicted: an almost uniform accusation of their anti-semitism

sound familiar?

more than Social Security, especially now, in the age of terra, Israel is TRULY the third rail of American Politics

this article must be read.....it's been discussed a little here, and I'm sure on the Israel forum, but I think it gives as balanced a view WRT the overwhelming influence Israel exerts on US foreign policy, particularly when it comes to foreign aid and Israeli defense funding, which has amounted to from $140 BILLION (!!) since the country was founded, depending on whom one believes.....I'll bet that it's MANY billions more than that, due to black hole budgeting
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. the letters to the editor following the article are very instructive, as
Edited on Fri Jul-28-06 01:49 AM by Gabi Hayes
they reveal the likes of respondees Philip Zelikow (one of the engineers of the 911 Commission coverup fiasco) to be the craven, bald-faced liars they so obviously are




Zelikow's lies, followed by the response which reveals him to be the liar he is:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n10/letters.html#2
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. problem with anti-semitism smear: like Bushies use of traitor overuse
is taking the sting out of it.

And as I tell anyone who says that to me, you can read the same thing I just said in Israeli papers by Israeli authors.

Are they anti-Semites too?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. It's "Apocalypse Pretzeldent."

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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-29-06 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
23. I dunno...maybe they're prosemitic?
:shrug:
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