ButterflyBlood
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:16 PM
Original message |
Poll question: Should Hezbollah be disarmed? |
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And this question is just what it says not "Do you support Israel's actions?", "Is it OK for Israel to kill civilians?" or anything else of the sort, of which my answers to is "no".
I still can't believe there are people here who don't think things would be much better off with Hezbollah disarming like every other group from the Lebanese Civil War.
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Teaser
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Where's the "don't care" option? |
ThomCat
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:32 PM
Response to Original message |
2. Where is the "When Israel is disarmed too" option? |
QuestionAll...
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
3. yep, wondered that too. |
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bad poll, bad.
shud Hizbollah be disarmed? shud Israel be disarmed? shud both be disarmed?
so far the only disarming has been of dead limbless children.
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CuteNFuzzy
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Thu Jul-27-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
Cessna Invesco Palin
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
4. What makes you think... |
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...that a disarmed Israel wouldn't simply be driven out of existence by its pantheon of mortal enemies? Or do you see that as a positive outcome?
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jonnyblitz
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
6. I know one thing for sure, It 's certainly OBVIOUS why they have |
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Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 12:41 PM by jonnyblitz
mortal enemies.
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Cessna Invesco Palin
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
Marie26
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #46 |
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:) Nasrallah, not so cute.
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ThomCat
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
7. Israel has the largest army, the most funding, the strongest |
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economy, and has been in absolutely no danger at all of being driven anywhere for decades.
Don't even think about accusing anyone here of of wanting to see Israel disappear, or of being antisemetic. Those are cheap shots for people who only know one side and don't care to see the other.
I'm really not in the mood for arguing with simple minds today.
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ButterflyBlood
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
14. They have the strongest army BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T DISARMED |
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No army, and why what happened in 1948, 1967 and 1973 wouldn't happen again? This time with Israel being destroyed.
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Cessna Invesco Palin
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
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Israel has the largest army,
The post I was responding to suggested that Israel should disarm. That being the case, they would no longer have the "largest army," or any army, for that matter.
I'm really not in the mood for arguing with simple minds today.
Talk about your cheap shots.
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MadHound
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
23. What makes you think that a disarmed Hezbollah and Lebanon |
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Wouldn't be destroyed all that much quicker by Israel?
Trust friend, it's gotta start somewhere.
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Cessna Invesco Palin
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
45. Israel has no interest in destroying Lebanon. |
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Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 01:56 PM by yibbehobba
Do you think that if Israel really wanted to destroy Lebanon, that this is the best they can do? My take is that Israel wants to destroy Hezbollah, and doesn't give a hoot how much of Lebanon happens to be destroyed in the process, but that's a far cry from wiping Lebanon off the map. Hell, Lebanon has no interest in destroying Israel. Hezbollah and Israel have an interest in destroying each other. The only difference is that Hezbollah is a terrorist group and Israel is a country. I will be more than happy if the day ever comes when Olmert is hauled to the Hague for his actions during the past couple of weeks, but there's a difference between a war crime and all-out genocide, or the destruction of a country.
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MadHound
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
54. Well, judging from Israel's current actions |
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And their past actions in the Gaza Strip and elsewhere, along with the rhetoric both now and in the past, I wouldn't be so certain of that. This isn't the first time that Israel has gone over the top with regards to their neighbors.
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MrPrax
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
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I have no doubt that Israel would love all the other countries in the ME to be disarmed. They ALL want Israel destroyed, of course...so Hez is no different than Saudi Arabia in this narrative.
In fact this is 'wet dream' of any despot -- an disarmed populace.
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sandnsea
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
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Nobody is asking whether Lebanon or Jordan or even Syria should be disarmed. Hizbollah is not a country for chrissake. It isn't anywhere near the same thing. I can't believe 35% of DU thinks it's a-ok to support terrorists and yes this is supporting terrorists. This is the definition of the loony left.
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Sparkly
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
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I was just about to make that point.
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LSK
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
18. then why isnt it acting like one |
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And going to through the UN to deal with its problems?
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sandnsea
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
20. It has for 60 fucking years |
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It pulled out of southern Lebanon in 2000 as part of going to the UN. The attacks from Hizbollah were not taken seriously, they were not dealt with. Just like this poll shows, some people really don't give a shit about what terrorists do to Israel.
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Marie26
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
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a resolution calling for Hizbollah to be disarmed. So Israel did bring its concerns to the UN, it's just that nothing was done.
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LSK
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
42. because the enforcer of the UN is busy making war in Iraq |
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Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 01:42 PM by LSK
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Marie26
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
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We took credit for Lebanon's democracy, but did nothing to bolster it.
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Marie26
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
35. Israel is a country, Hizbollah is not |
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Israel can have an army to secure itself, as any country can. Lebanon also can & does have an army. Hizbollah is not the Lebanese army & shouldn't be acting like it is; and it shouldn't be provoking wars that Lebanon wants no part of. It should have disarmed when the other militias did, to allow the Lebanese army to secure the entire country & stabilize the government.
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Tierra_y_Libertad
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message |
5. Yes. Along with the rest of Middle East and the rest of the world. |
Minstrel Boy
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message |
8. How about, "Not right now"? |
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Because I'll tell you why. If my country was bombed to hell and my family slaughtered, I'd be on the side of anyone firing back.
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ButterflyBlood
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
15. If Hezbollah had disarmed with all other groups after the civil war |
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This wouldn't be happening right now. Israel is certainly to blame for their actions, but Hezbollah deserves just as much condemnation for putting the Lebanese through this.
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Minstrel Boy
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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My point is, I don't care who you are or what you've done, if you're firing upon an army whose intent is to flatten my home and has already declared it doesn't distinguish me from an enemy combatant, then I guess that's what I am.
At least that's how I imagine my perspective if I were a Lebanese, particularly one who lived south of the Litani.
If I were an Israeli, I would be grieving for the soul of my country.
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LostinVA
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Thu Jul-27-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
68. I get the point you're making |
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For example, Bloody Sunday made alot of apolitical young men join the IRA (an analogy I thought someone with your name would appreciate!).
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Minstrel Boy
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Thu Jul-27-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #68 |
69. thanks. I keep thinking |
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of the Lebanese refugee who hadn't supported Hezbollah, but was now saying "I want to be a bomb."
I'm just having one of those "If I had a rocket launcher" days.
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LostinVA
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Thu Jul-27-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #69 |
70. I know... and, just for you: |
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The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone In the ranks of death you will find him His father's sword he hath girded on And his wild harp slung behind him Land of Song! said the warrior bard Tho' all the world betrays thee One sword, at least, they rights shall guard One faithful harp shall praise thee!
The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain Could not bring that proud soul under The harp he lov'd ne'er spoke again For he tore its chords asunder And said "No chains shall sully thee Thou soul of love and brav'ry! Thy songs were made for the pure and free, They shall never sound in slavery!
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Swede
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message |
11. It's the only way for peace. |
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This may be the only chance.
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Sparkly
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message |
12. To me, it's another no-brainer: YES. nt |
WildEyedLiberal
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:49 PM
Response to Original message |
16. 10 DUers support terrorists? |
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Thanks for giving Rush grist for the mill.
Morans. :eyes:
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Sparkly
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
17. 41 say Israel should negotiate with terrorists. |
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2743536Admittedly, the poll choices weren't ideal, but not answering at all is always an option. To click THAT option is beyond belief, imho.
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WildEyedLiberal
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
21. Wow, THAT is appalling |
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Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 01:03 PM by WildEyedLiberal
What kind of rabbit hole does one have to fall down to rationalize supporting Hezbollah? As if one can't criticize aspects of Israel's offensive without *rooting* for TERRORISTS! To be fair, most on DU do, but then again, they're not the ones clicking on this poll cheering for Hezbollah.
Jayzus Christ....
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LostinVA
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
25. Northern Ireland has done it |
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And, even though it's been far from perfect, it has been a good step in the right direction.
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sandnsea
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
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Disarmament was key to Sinn Fein and IRA negotiations.
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Wonk
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
41. Proof that carbet bombing Belfast as a tactic worked! |
LostinVA
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Thu Jul-27-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
Recursion
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
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You don't support negotiation as a way for parties to resolve their differences?
I think our adamant refusal to negotiate with Hezbollah, or Hamas, or Iran, or Syria, or North Korea, has been a disastrous policy that has left us where we are today.
I'm not saying to officially recognize them, or even negotiate publicly. Use back-channels. Find out what they really want. If you sit somebody down and find out what they're really after, you can avoid a lot of bloodshed, or at least limit the conflict as much as possible.
At some point, Israel and the US have to learn that as tempting as it may seem, there is no unilateral solution here, and they need to talk with the other side, however odious that seems to them.
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Sparkly
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
47. I believe there should be diplomacy with Iran and Syria |
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but negotiating with terrorists -- no.
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Recursion
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
52. Yeah, I know, it "encourages" them |
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Because our policy of not negotiating has certainly succeeded in discouraging terrorism :sarcasm:
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Sparkly
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #52 |
55. Who knows where we'd all be if terrorist tactics were made successful |
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by governments negotiating with them as a result.
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Recursion
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #55 |
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...grievances are finally addressed?
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Sparkly
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #60 |
64. Are you actually saying |
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that you think kidnappings, attacks on civilians (train stations, suicide bombings etc.), are good ways to "address grievances," or that governments should give power to terrorist organizations who use such tactics by giving into their demands with "negotiations," or that such organizations should be allowed to maintain munitions, militias, and weaken governments by taking over parts of countries, etc....?
How about basic "warlords" -- are those good folks with "grievances" who should keep small arsenals, as well?
I just can't believe I'm reading this.
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Recursion
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #64 |
65. I'm actually saying... |
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...that as long as governments ignore militant groups they will continue in their militancy until they or the government are destroyed. The only way to actually address their grievances is to talk to them and find out what they want. It's not "giving them power"; their guns give them power. It's diplomacy. Diplomacy is what makes peace happen.
What made the IRA disarm? Negotiations. What made PLO disarm? Negotiations.
Sticking Hamas and Hezbollah in the box will not make them disarm. It will increase their irredentism.
Look, if you don't want to negotiate for specific hostages, fine, don't do it. But negotiate the big issue. Come to a settlement with Hamas.
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Name removed
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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WildEyedLiberal
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
28. 13 people have voted that Hezbollah should keep their weapons |
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Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 01:19 PM by WildEyedLiberal
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, no ifs, ands, or buts. If people support them having weapons, then they support terrorist tactics, period.
It's lunacy to suggest that the only way to oppose Israel's position is to *support* Hezbollah. I can oppose both Bush and al-Qaeda, and thus people can oppose both Israel's tactics and Hezbollah's. Supporting, however tacitly, the killing of civilians on purpose is pretty wretched, whichever side the civilians are on.
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jonnyblitz
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
29. speaking of terrorists, somebody needs to disarm the IDF!! |
Freedom_Aflaim
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message |
22. I support disarming terrorist such as Hezbolla |
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The question is how do you do it without causing mayhem.
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savemefromdumbya
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message |
26. In the old days we used to say should the IRA be disarmed? |
sandnsea
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
38. And whaddya know, they did n/t |
TahitiNut
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message |
27. Disarm the ENTIRE Middle East. Make it a weapons-free Holy Zone. |
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Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 01:18 PM by TahitiNut
If it's the center of three of the world's major religions, then make it behave like it!
If we can have "smoke-free" restaurants, can't we have "weapons-free" regions?
Daggers only!!
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MadHound
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
32. Hear Hear! I'm with you on this one n/t |
G_j
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
Marie26
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message |
30. Wow, 10 votes for no? |
readmoreoften
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message |
31. Bombing Israel was not the will of the Lebanese as a whole. |
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It was the will of Hezbollah and its Shia supporters in the South. Imagine if a massive Texan militia bombed Mexico. And then the Mexican government idiotically bombed Charlotte, Chicago, and Washington to retaliate. We would want that militia to be disarmed even though the actions of Mexico should be condemned. We would not expect the entire country of Mexico to disarm.
Anyone who thinks Israel should disarm is off their cake. I think it should take an enormous collective chill pill and/or be pressured to stop the offensive, but the disarming is Israel is absurd.
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kentuck
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message |
33. Yes. Take those missiles that are fired into Haifa.... |
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and dump them into the sea. If the people moved out of Haifa, what would they fire on? They would be a waste - worthless with no military value at all.
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sutz12
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message |
36. Yes, but the question, of course, is how? |
The Magistrate
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Thu Jul-27-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message |
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That was also the view of the United Nations Security Council.
No government can afford to tolerate an armed private body sufficiently numerous to set aside its authority in a portion of the country it rules, nor can democratic politics be conducted in circumstances featuring armed political militias.
No state can be expected to tolerate the existance on its border of an armed and hostile private body levying acts of war, on however small a scale, against its soldiers and citizens.
The disarmament of Hezbollah prior to the present would have been of tremendous value to the peace and stability of the Middle East: its disarmament now, and at any point in the future, would be just as beneficial to all concerned, save the violent radicals themselves.
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Taxloss
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message |
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So much for "no one hear supports Hezbollah".
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ButterflyBlood
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Thu Jul-27-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
73. Proving the point I made a few days ago |
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About how asinine support from so-called progressives for fundamentalist Muslim terrorists are, and kept being screamed at about how I was just using a strawman to defend Israel (despite my criticism of Israel as well) and no one here supported Hezbollah.
Turns out that wasn't the case after all.
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Cameron27
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Thu Jul-27-06 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #73 |
76. Unbelievable. I wouldn't have expected it. n/t |
Swamp Rat
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message |
51. George W. Bushler should be disarmed... |
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... before it's too late. :hide:
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Virginia Dare
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
Virginia Dare
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:13 PM
Response to Original message |
53. Would that really solve all the problems? |
Sparkly
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #53 |
56. It'd be a great start!!!! nt |
Wonk
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
57. One thing this poll completely neglects to address is HOW. |
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So, it's a waste of bandwidth, imho.
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Marie26
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #57 |
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I learned that 1/3 of DU opposes disarming Hizbollah. News to me.
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Sparkly
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #57 |
59. How would you suggest? nt |
Virginia Dare
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #59 |
62. Moderation is the key.... |
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Extremists have been allowed to take over the debate on all sides. This has got to change before we will make any headway.
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ButterflyBlood
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Thu Jul-27-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #57 |
75. All other groups from the civil war have been disarmed |
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The Falange forces are no longer active militarily, the various Sunni forces are no longer active militarily, the various Soviet-supported leftist factions are no longer active militarily.
It's been done.
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Virginia Dare
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
61. Sorry, I can't be that optimistic...n/t |
Nye Bevan
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Thu Jul-27-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message |
66. Amazing, and disappointing |
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23 people vote for a terrorist group to be allowed to keep their weapons.
I suppose it is possible that some or all of these 23 votes are from disruptors trying to make DU look bad. But since none of these people have posted in this thread to explain their votes, it is hard to tell.
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Xenotime
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Thu Jul-27-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message |
71. If you do that, they can't defend themselves from Israel |
ButterflyBlood
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Thu Jul-27-06 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #71 |
74. What need would there be to then? |
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Israel's current attack on Lebanon is due to Hezbollah's aggression toward them. Of course Israel has gone too far and its actions are unacceptable, but if Hezbollah weren't attacking them, this wouldn't be happening. No armed Hezbollah = no Israel attacks on them = no need to defend themselves.
Why can't they simply follow the lead of every other Lebanese faction that has converted solely to the political process?
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