Would any of you patronize an organization that was anti choice and anti

[saracat]

women's rights? I am shocked at the Duer's who are going to Curves and have decided to "overlook " the political aspect of the gym even though they admit they hand out "Christian lit" and play "Christian " music! I am not anti-Christian. I was raised as one but I am pro -woman and this is a chain that requires its franchise to donate to anti-choice causes. It is using women's health against women's reproductive rights. If I know about an organization such as this , I could never patronize them and help the enemies of women's rights.And I always try to buy "blue" if I can. What do you all think? I am curious. Maybe some are not as supportive of women as I thought.

[Taverner]

1. You can get the same "circuit workout" at any 24 hour fitness

And 24 Hour Fitness is just run by greedy capitalists :)

[LostinVA]

11. You can get a better, cheaper workout at zillions of local gyms

[EFerrari]

12. LOL!

:rofl:

[azmouse]

2. I go to Curves and I won't stop going.

I spend my money as I see fit. What is done with money after I spend it is none of my business.
I know there will rants against this but this is how I feel.
Curves provides a service I like. I don't mind the occaisional Christian music because I am a Christian. I've never seen anyone hand out Christian lit or make any attempt to convert anyone.

[niyad]

6. so you don't mind funding the woman-hating, anti-choice, religious right,

if I understand you correctly. how nice of you to be so casual about our rights.

as I once told a member of the coors family, during the boycott, when they were whining that they could spend their money any way they pleased, "yes, indeed, you may spend your money any way you please. we are simply informing you that you will have none of OUR money with which to do so." what is so difficult to understand about that?

[azmouse]

13. When you control my wallet you may spend my money

as you see fit.

I donate to many causes that you may not agree with. Would you like to audit everyone's accounts here to make sure they are spending their money the way you see fit?

[LostinVA]

16. Interesting worldview n/t

[Greyhound]

17. That's the governments job.

[niyad]

18. don't even try that snarky little trick--I am simply asking you if you

don't mind giving to causes or organizations that actively oppose women's rights. you seem to have missed the point entirely (see my response to a member of the coors family)

I just wonder how you can, that's all.

[azmouse]

20. I'm truly sorry if the few pennies of my membership go to causes

that you don't approve of.

I donate thousands to liberal causes. I know that won't make you happy because those pennies will stick in your side, but there it is.

[niyad]

23. cute trick, but it won't work.

[azmouse]

27. So you weren't looking for discussion here.

You just wanted everyone to agree with you.
And to pat you on the back for being a wonderful person.

Do you honestly know where all the money you spend at stores goes? Really?

[saracat]

29. You can't know about all of it but when you KNOW and

support the elimination of human rights with your purchase it is an abomination. And it isn't as though one doesn't have a choice. There are lots of other gyms to go to. But I gather you don't support women's rights.

[azmouse]

31. I'm pro-life.

Yes! A pro-life Democrat. We do exist.
I'm renewing my membership at Curves for two more years starting tomorrow!

[saracat]

40. So I suppose you vote against our pro choice candidates?

Reproductive rights is in our party platform and I am proud to say I had a part in ensuring it was included.But I guess we must agree to differ. I cannot appreciate such a viewpoint but I guess some don't care about women's rights. How unfortunate.I suppose some also are against stem cell research with embryonic cells? Is that pro life . No one has ever been able to explain to me how it is pro life to let people die. Whatever.

[Lars39]

42. Well, look us up in a few years when you can't get your birth control

without showing a marriage license.

[Patchuli]

57. You are entitled to but

don't you find that workout pretty wimpy and robotic?

[w4rma]

60. Good grief, why didn't you just state that in the first place instead of

beating around the bush with false reasons?

[REP]

66. No. You're Anti-Abortion.

Pro-life my ass. Pro-lie is more like it.

[iverglas]

75. now now

I'd be pretty confident saying that she's anti-choice.

People who are merely anti-abortion don't go around trying to make other people obey them.

[REP]

76. Pro-Lie Works Best

Yes, they're anti-choice, anti-contraception, and pro-forced-birth, and none of them are able to tell the truth. Look how long it took for her to admit she wants to take away basic human rights from other women.

[readmoreoften]

69. So why didn't you just say you're antiabortion & cut out all the chitchat?

The poster asked would you support a company that gives money to a mission that is anti-choice. You answered with all this blather about how it's none of your business. But your answer is simply "yes" because Curves supports everything you believe in: christianity and forced birth?

So why not just state proudly from the start that you're anti-choice? The real question for you is, would you stop contributing to a company because it is pro-choice?

[City Lights]

37. Oh brother.

:eyes:

Of course I don't know what happens to every penny I spend in stores. However, when I do know that a particular store supports things I'm totally against, I stop spending my money there. My boycott list is quite long. :-) If you don't mind funding causes you're against, that's your business.

[LostinVA]

39. The poster just started she is anti choice

So, she is giving money to support a cause she supports.

[calico1]

43. Well, I guess that makes sense...

for her...:eyes:

[City Lights]

44. I see that.

Curves has donated over $111K to Republicans. In supporting their pro-life agenda, she is also supporting Pukes. Good for her.

[iverglas]

74. and I shoulda read that far first

Woulda explained ... well, everything ... and saved me a few minutes' typing.

[niyad]

59. please do not attempt to put words in my mouth again--you have no

arguments, you just prattle. and, believe it or not, I investigate where my money goes,and avoid those businesses whose profits support causes I do not approve. why is that such a hard concept for you to understand? Many of us DO take the time to know what we are supporting all the way down the line.

and since you are ANTI-CHOICE, since you proudly proclaim that women's control over their own bodies is something of which you do not approve, I don't give a rat's ass what liberal causes you claim to support, because in the end, you are siding with the reichwingers, when it comes to the most basic and fundamental right of all--the right of bodily autonomy.

[iverglas]

73. how would you know that?

When you didn't make the slightest effort to discuss anything?

How difficult would it be to say, oh:

I'm sitting here drinking Diet Coke and knowing that the profits are used to oppress people around the world, and wishing I were purer of deed, but knowing that these kinds of things are actually very complex and seldom black and white, and also that I am not to blame for, and cannot control, every evil thing done in the world, and could not be 100% pure even if I lived on nuts and berries and wore fig leaves, so I'll try to make more effort to make better choices in my personal life, but also, and equally importantly, try to combine efforts with others to improve the choices available to us all.

That's kinda what I'd say if someone asked me why I was sitting here drinking Diet Coke ...

[madeline_con]

79. "Pro-life" just means "anti-choice" in the real world. n/t

[theHandpuppet]

34. Let me try this on for size

Y'know, I'm sure all of us here spend monies at businesses which, in turn, may support neocon or other RW causes. Sometimes there simply is no choice. Many or most of us, however, at least CARE that patronizing such businesses contributes, in one way or another, to the detriment of other human beings, be that anything from the slave labor market to oppression of women and workers to the destruction of the environment. That's why some of us choose to look for alternatives when possible, cut back our usage, or even do without in some cases.

What I sense from your posts is different in that you seem to not give a damn about consequences and are only offended that someone questions our priorities and practices. On the one hand you get huffy about anyone questioning the very notion of having a consumer conscience and caring about other human beings and on the other tout yourself as a Christian. Well, I may not be a Christian but I do know Jesus had a lot to say about hypocrisy, especially in the Beatitudes. Either walk the walk or talk the talk. I'm just surprised that you can be so self-righteous about not giving a damn.

[azmouse]

36. Perhaps because I'm Pro-life.

If he donates a few pennies of my membership to that cause it doesn't bother me.

[theHandpuppet]

38. You really didn't address my post, not that I exepcted you to do so

So I'm interested in hearing your definition of "pro-life".

[LostinVA]

41. Well, you're anti-choice

Let's not use the Right Wing framing, since you are a Dem.

And, he gives 10% to such causes... including some known looney tunes, extremist ones. He tithes. He's a good Christian...

[City Lights]

48. Be sure to eat Domino's Pizza too.

That way a few more of your pennies will go to a cause you support. :puke:

edited to add puking

[bicentennial_baby]

61. nnnnnnooooo....you are Anti-Choice

nice try though... :eyes:

not yr body, not yr business....So says my *Catholic* mother. :)

[REP]

67. Yes, Maybe Your Pennies Will Build Another Bomb

You can be proud of that.

[iverglas]

70. why don't you try addressing the issue civilly?

Nobody forced you to answer the question. You chose to do so, of your own entirely free will.

The question was: how do you justify funnelling money to where it is used to degrade women's rights?

If you don't want to answer, there's a simple solution. Don't open your mouth.

If you want to criticize the poster for asking the question, feel free. But given that no one was talking to you in the first place, and as far as I know no one would have had a clue that you patronize actively misogynist businesses unless you had opened your mouth, I'm not at all sure where you get off taking the tone you have taken.

I donate to many causes that you may not agree with. Would you like to audit everyone's accounts here to make sure they are spending their money the way you see fit?

Perhaps you could write several times on the chalkboard: I am not compelled to testify against myself ... and I am not justified in falsely accusing anyone else of trying to make me do so.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. I'm Proud Of You For Being That Honest.

Some may give ya shit for it, but I won't. I respect your honesty and conviction, and also agree with your mentality.

[azmouse]

14. Thank you.

[readmoreoften]

71. I dunno, mindcrime.

Is posturing for 5 posts and arguing with people before you come out and admit you're bating them because you're pro-life really "honest"? Not so sure. If she was honest she would've said, "I'm pro-life. I'll give my money to who I want. Kiss my ass."

I'd have more respect for that.

[LostinVA]

10. Just a "what if"

Would you frequently patronize a grocery store whose owner publicly states Blacks are subhuman, and also makes it publicly known he gives HUGE amounts of money to White Supremacist causes. And, that he encourages franchised grocery stores to have displays proving Blacks are subhuman?

I am honestly not flaming you. I sincerely am trying to get my head around this...

[azmouse]

19. I understand you're point but I like the service Curves offers.

Is my membership in the Democratic party dependent on thinking the way everyone else here does.

Many people here use supermarket 'savings cards' that track their spending. These same people were up in arms over * spying on them. How are the two different? If * was offering them a discount on their phone service for the right to track their calls, would they have been for it? I don't see a difference in the two things.

I haven't seen any proof yet about Curves. Does someone have websites to back this up?

[LostinVA]

24. No, but I would say someone calling themselves a Dem

And yet who doesn't mind giving money to EXTREME and often violent anti-female businesses is just very... interesting to me. You're right, it is your choice to give them your money.

I don't get how the savings card analogy works with Curves.

The owner of Curves certainly isn't shy about his beliefs and donations.

If you Google, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of hits will come up.... but here's just a few:


http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=19982
http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/curves.asp
http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2004/05/19/curves/index.html
http://www.ultramegawow.com/archives/000470.html
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1844
http://curvers.squarespace.com/club-actions
http://alternet.org/story/18569/

[saracat]

28. What you are contributing too is the elimination of my basic rights as a

human being. I have a problem with that. My ability to make my own medical decisions is fundamental to my equality. I cannot believe a women would think it was alright to support the elimination of her own rights. Giving to an organization of that caliber is the same as a black person contributing to the Klu Klux Clan and yes , it is that important and it is that bad.

[progressivebydesign]

33. Have you never read their mag called "DIANE"???

It's all about religion. If you're comfortable with the religious aspect, that's fine.

[azmouse]

35. I'm a Christian.

And that doesn't mean fundie.

The mag is useless anyway. Not much info in there.

[saracat]

46. Does this mean you aren't going to vote for Janet Napolitano?

She is pro-choice you know. Len Munsil's whole issue in his campaign is pro-life are you supporting him? Just wondering. You don't seem to want to indicate how far your support goes.

[madeline_con]

78. "What is done with money after I spend it ...

...is none of my business."

I find that extremely sad.

[Voltaire99]

81. LOL! Go ahead and spend your way into fascism, then.

After all, a trim body is worth any price!

[niyad]

3. NEVER--which is also the reason I don't matronize Carl's Jr and a whole

host of other woman-hating companies.

[Patchuli]

58. I didn't know Carl's was bad

but I know the food sucks! They made me sick on a bacon and egg breakfast burrito due to undercooked bacon. Yuck...if they are RWingie, they are off the fast food (yuck) list!

[Patchuli]

4. I wouldn't when Curves first appeared in my town

The membership pusher wanted to know why I wasn't interested. I told her I've been working out for 30 years since I was pretty young and certainly don't need a 'voice' from above telling me how to exercise and when to switch machines. I do a different workout every time I work out.

Now that I know they dabble in things they have no business dabbling in, I will do what I can to discourage other folks from patronizing them!

[Freedomofspeech]

22. I belonged to Curves for a short time...

I became offended when they began to play Christian music (even though I was raised Christian), I didn't feel that was the place for it. Also the minute I found out they gave money to the * campaign, I immediately quit. Also, it's not really much of a workout (but that's just my opinion).

[LostinVA]

25. No, it's not much of a workout

It's strange to me that women go there... you can get a way better workout at many local gyms -- usually much cheaper. Or at Gold's.

[calico1]

47. I went one day with a friend. I got a pass.

I agree the workout isn't very good. I have my own equipment but if I did decide to join a gym again it would be the co-ed kind. Women's gyms tend to have machines that are not very good and their exercise routines aren't tough enough for me. Even for a person starting out, a regular gym offers so much more. Plus they don't have all those limited hours.

[xxqqqzme]

5. I have a friend who had signed up w/ curves.

When I told her about their anti-woman policies, she withdrew her membership. She joined a locally owned circuit training place where the owners are liberal.

[EFerrari]

8. Not a chance. And the franchise in my neighborhood

looks to be ready to close.

[ceile]

9. Absolutely not!

I got my apt complex office to pull their brochures from the waiting room by telling them what they stood for (it was an office run by women). Whenever I see a woman with one of their tags on her keychain I'm always tempted to tell her what kind of business they really run.

[LostinVA]

15. It also shocks me too, Saracat

As I stated in a post up thread, it's akin to African-Americans patronizing a grocery store whose owner publicly and proudly states Blacks are subhuman, and who donates huge amounts of money to the Klan.

Also, Curves program is quite meh, and can only take you so far. A good local gym would be cheaper and better workout-wise.

[City Lights]

21. NOPE!

Not a fucking chance in the world I'd frequent such an establishment. If they were the only ones selling the product, I'd do without it.

[theHandpuppet]

26. Wow -- I didn't know that

Thanks for the info -- I surely won't be going there!

[blonndee]

30. No, not knowingly. When I found out one of the two stores in town

that carries only organic and veggie-friendly food choices was also rabidly anti-choice and donates a lot of money to anti-choice organizations I never went back. I also thought that was such a strange business for fundie RWers to be in.

[progressivebydesign]

32. I try not to.. and it's why I wouldnt' got to Curves.

Hey.. I have no problem if people in business are of different faiths.. I mean, it would be ridiculous to shop only Buddhist leaning stores... BUT I DO avoid businesses that use their venue and cash to promote things I don't support. I picked up a Curves magazine once, called "DIANE" after the founder, and I nearly barfed. Scares me that so many women are choosing blind, ignorant, subservience, in this century.

[XanaDUer]

45. Nope.

F*** Curves.

[Richard Steele]

49. No, I certainly wouldn't patronize such a business. nm

[oberliner]

50. What is your source for these claims about Curves? nt

[saracat]

51. There are lots of links in this thread. Look up Curves. It is very well

documented. Have you read this thread?

[City Lights]

52. Here's a couple:

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/curves.asp

http://www.buyblue.org/node/749/view/summary

Google can be quite useful. :-)

[oberliner]

54. thank you

sorry, i read the original message and posted before reading the whole thread

apologies

[City Lights]

55. You're welcome, and no problem.

:hi:

[saracat]

53. WOW! No response as to voting habits? Odd.

?

[Fleshdancer]

56. I won't go to Curves and after telling my mom about their views....

she stopped going there too.

[bleedingheart]

62. No

[mrreowwr_kittty]

63. You are right

Besides, Curves and its clones are rip-offs anyway. There's nothing you can get there that you can't get by buying yourself some handweights or bands, an exercise ball, and some walking shoes. You can check out a book on basic fitness at the library that will show you different strengthening moves. If you like support and cameraderie, do it with some friends or put an ad on Craig's List for a workout partner. Or you can join a reasonably priced health club, if one exists in your area. I go to LA Fitness for $40 a month. The associates there will show any new member how to use all the equipment, sans proseletyzing. They have a much wider variety of machines and weights, plus various classes. And no, most of the people who go there do NOT look like Brad Pitt or Demi Moore. I'm not plugging them or anything but I know far too many women who have wasted money on bullshit like Curves when they could have put it toward something more worthwhile in terms of their fitness goals.

[in_cog_ni_to]

64. Nope. I would NEVER join Curves. Papa Johns pizza is a RW company too.

I NEVER eat their pizza either.

[lindisfarne]

65. Wendy's and Dominos are RW too; avoid them n/t

[REP]

68. Fuck No - I Don't Support Terrorists

[readmoreoften]

72. Century 21 Clothes & Forever 21 clothes: also total wingnuts.

They print bible verses on the bottom of their bags. They threw my partner out of their store in NYC for wanting to try on a suit for her graduation. Evil company.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

80. What!?!? They're fundies?

Really, if they were so Christian in their values you'd think they'd sell different clothes. According to the young women I know, that's where you go to dress like a hooker.

[madeline_con]

77. Thanks so much for the info.

I was thinking of joining. I had no idea! They'll get none of my $!!

[foreverdem]

82. No way

There is a Curves in my neighborhood and I never see anyone going in or coming out. I don't know how they stay open.

[Voltaire99]

83. Pretty sad when people choose to be victims.

It's too bad we've arrived at this point, but here we are. "Democrat" is now little more than a style choice, implying next to nothing about ethics or principle. It's something to call yourself in lieu of other things to call yourself--descriptors that, in fact, might be more accurate.

Some Democrats support illegal invasions, some oppose abortions, some cheer on the slaughter of Lebanese civilians; so is it any wonder Democrats do their sit ups in the exercise chains of right wing totalitarians?

Sure, many Dems do nothing of the sort and in fact abhor such decisions. They understand that economic choices are political choices. They realize that Bushism is sustained through lots more than just stolen elections.

No one spending her money at Curves has any business complaining about Bush. What part of this money buys more Bushism is hard to understand?

[The Straight Story]

84. Hopefully you don't buy gas. Or much of ANYTHING because of taxes

Because I am sure you know that such money funds the RW wet dreams of war, anti-choice, etc and so on.


And while you may not be able to avoid such things, you could trim them down to almost nothing (btw, I don't mean 'you' as in you personally, just as a figure of speech).

I DO understand your point. And it seems valid enough - everyone is doing it. Christians won't buy from places that does not obey their ideals/values, repugs won't buy from someone if they aren't on board with their ideals, etc and so on.

People don't like to help raise money for someone who is battling against their core ideals. But then one might also view it as but a tiny percent and not worth worry about because the real work they put in for their party more than outweighs it.

We can try to live pure as the snow in the eyes of the ideological god we make, but no matter how you slice it we end up a sinner anyway because some of the money we spend does end where we think wrong (from china, to gas profits enabling the corporations to screw our side, etc).

And what are we to do within our own party when money spent on a blue business might go to the DLC or to a local business that sends funds to Liberman (or any other candidate one might not approve of)?

In the case of CURVES - I ain't gonna bitch about people going there, but if they feel guilty do what a lot of christians I have known over the years have done: Leave pamphlets in the bathrooms, locker rooms, etc aimed at educating people about your beliefs.