Thinner

[JFN1]

I find it instructive, from time to time, to step back from the daily grind of politics, scandal, and war, to consider our basic humanity. It can be difficult to detach, and like any news junkie, it takes an odd happenstance to bring such ruminating about. Earlier today, as I was digging through the closet in our spare bedroom/office, I was gifted with an opportunity of consideration.

We thought our dog might have gotten pregnant a couple of months ago, so my wife had put together a little birthing kit - towels, rubber gloves, scissors, string, etc. - and a little dietary scale I didn't even know we owned. I happened upon this kit as I was searching for a notebook I was sure I'd stashed somewhere in the area, and as I put the box containing the kit back on the shelf, a brand new t-shirt fell off the shelf next to me. I went to pick it up and put it back, and the weirdest thing happened.

Every year my wife buys me the same t-shirts for summer, for working around the house. Hanes, extra large, light gray, with a pocket. Every year, the same shirts (what can I say - I'm a boring guy). I guess she forgot to give me this one - the receipt tucked into the pocket said she bought it three years ago.

And it was so weird. When I picked the shirt up, the material felt, well, strange. It was like, thicker, heavier, better quality, or something. I thought about the little scale my wife had stashed in the puppy birthing kit, and I remembered that I had a brand new t-shirt - same brand, color, size, pocket - everything - she just bought me a couple of weeks ago, still un-worn, and folded in my drawer. So I weighed them both.

The brand new shirt weighed 8 ⅞ ounces. The three year old brand new shirt weighed 13 ⅜ ounces - right at 4 ½ ounces difference. And the old brand new shirt cost $1.12 less than the brand new shirt.

Now, I'm not simply picking on Hanes. But I believe what I've related above is common, and happening in lots of other products we buy.

Everything is getting thinner.

And if you think about what this means for our culture, I'd say those measly 4 ½ ounces missing from my brand new shirt are actually pretty significant.

It says we, as a culture, are willing to take less, for more. It says we, as a people, simply expect less. And it says we, as Americans, are conditioned to accept this.

So we accept thinner clothes, vehicles, washing machines, toasters. We accept lower paying jobs, higher and higher corporate profits, utterly corrupt politicians, rigged elections, broken/no health care/insurance, ever worsening living conditions. Our way of life, gets thinner, and thinner, and thinner.

I was kidnapped by my wife and forced to go shopping (that fateful trip when she bought me the experimental t-shirt a couple of weeks ago), and I remember thinking as we walked through JC Penny's looking for cheap jeans, how purposely shoddy things looked. Jeans are being sold pre-stained, torn, broken. It has become the height of fashion to look like you just stepped out of the gutter, like you've been wiping your greasy hands on your pants over and over. And I remember thinking, this isn't an accident, and it surely isn't just fashion.

So I put the question to you: Are we being conditioned for Third World living? If it is fashionable to look grimy, will true grime be as hard to accept, once the corporations and the wealthy finally gobble up the rest of what remains of our economy? Is this the life we should expect - bare necessities, quality non-existent, all of us working to feed some giant corporate machine's profit margins?

[Dora]

1. Oh, what a relief to hear that somebody else has these crazy ideas.

Yes, I agree with you. The manufaturing and marketing of the broken-down, raggedy, unfinished, stained, torn look has been driving me nuts. I've stopped paying any attention whatsoever to "fashion" because it's only a fiction that's designed to sell a lie - whatever that lie may be.

[femrap]

17. Take a walk thru the Girls' Clothing section sometime.....

We are readying them for future Hooker jobs! I'm serious. Sexual objects at the age of 7. Way to go Corporate USA!

Everything is thinner....candy bars, canned foods, toilet paper....been going on for a while now.

I hate corporate america's greedy guts. UNION! Maybe we should all watch 'Norma Rae' again.

One last thing and I'll shut up...the new housing developments of today...could the houses be more shoddy? And they all look alike. No insulation....just cheap.

[Kool Kitty]

19. I'm glad to see that it's not only me, too.

Same size boxes-less product. Coffee cans-same size as the old pound cans, less product. Thinner clothes, too, huh? Got to look at them more carefully. Sheesh.

[Lorien]

54. I washed a "washable" button down shirt last week that I've owned for

less than a year. When I took it out of the dryer there was a huge tear down the front. On closer examination, even the stitching is starting to come undone. This was a dress shirt that I had only worn a dozen times or so, but it is so thin that I really have to make sure that I'm wearing a nice bra with it too-because you'll be seeing right through it!

[Ezlivin]

2. Slouching Toward the Third World

It is instructive to compare items made today with the same items made earlier. It does seem that every manufactured item is trending toward using the thinnest possible materials. Lean against the hood of a new car then lean against the hood of a '67 Impala. Whoa.

There are some advantages to using less materials; one is the lessened amount of energy required for manufacture and shipping.

But when your t-shirts start feeling like skimpy lingerie it is time to get worried.

Our country seems to be on the track to prepare us for grinding poverty. Kids don't learn a damn thing in schools apart from taking "the" test, there is precious little job security, scarce health care, rising energy costs and non-existent government response to major disasters. Couple this with rigged elections, false-flag terrorist attacks and the overall reduction in our civil liberties and we're just about there.

Thank god we've got Halliburton building all those detention camps. Got to have someplace to put the malcontents.

[Deja Q]

5. And the thick-o supporters who say "just obey the rules" don't get it

that the rules can change without them knowing about it. There's more to it than waving the flag. But then, they want to survive. I don't think all of them are worthy, based on IQ points alone, but who said I'm right either?

[Deja Q]

3. Well, as long as people keep accepting it, nothing will change.

I just noted yesterday that my veggie pizzas went from 3/$8.88 (saving $8.00) to 2/$8.00 (saving $16.00)

I haven't really gone back to my ex-grocer until they redecorated just to look like the high-end Kowalskis nearby. Little did I know they'd start charging even more than Kowalskis, I swear. The pizzas USED to be a good deal; one of the few they had. No longer. (they sell Edy's light whipped for $4.99 each, whereas Target, walmart, and everywhere else has it for $3.69... Sams Club and the ilk have it for $3.09...) Highway robbery.

Still, they have my favorite candies at a proper cost and no need to mail order, so that's how I'm still "in the know" about their prices.

Their homemade 16" pizzas are not bad either, but Sams delivers more veggies for $3 less... :(

I don't care where I shop, but I do memorize prices and shop accordingly.

[porphyrian]

4. Stop thinking! You are a bad consumer! Bad! - n/t

[Deja Q]

7. On the plus side, using fewer materials means less strain on resources.

Still, Carter told the truth re: energy conservation and that helped to vote him out.

[porphyrian]

11. Energy communism?! Pinko traitor! - n/t

[Mabus]

14. Not less of a strain on resources if products don't last as long

If you used to use three widgets to make a product that lasted 10 years but now are using two widgets to make a product that lasts 5 years, you end up using more resources. For example, my old coffee maker lasted about twelve years. When it finally kicked the bucket I bought another one three years ago which died last month. I have no idea how long my newest one will last but I suspect I will end up buying another one in a few short years.

[femrap]

21. Yep....the Corps just want bigger

profit margins. Remember when clothing manufacturers went to China? Designer clothes in particular. Their costs to manufacture dropped like a stone....but was any of that savings passed on to us? Prices stayed the same and recently have been going up.

[Mabus]

22. Profits are everything

You're right. The savings weren't passed on to us, the consumers, rather they went into increasing the profit margin and dividends of the company and its stockholders.

[etherealtruth]

40. Sadly the Repukes were able to convince the "masses" ...

... to ignore pesky things like science, logic and reason.

Carter was correct and mocked for it ... like Al Gore.

[madfloridian]

6. Been going round about this with Vermont Country Store.

My hubby loves their shirts. I love their popover flannel gowns for winter. The quality of both is so sorry it is unbelievable!!

They are poorly made, thin, no plush, no softness.

I had a customer service person tell me they had no control over quality anymore.

[DocSavage]

25. No control over quality?

Yes they do. They have the ability to buy quality product, but the question is will the customers that they sell to pay for the quality? Everything comes with a cost, if you are unhappy with the quality, shop somewhere else that has better quality.

[madfloridian]

34. I saw something in CAFTA about materials used.

I will see if I can find it.

It was found at a site called I think Bayou Buzz. I have not been able to find anymore on it. Can you dispute this or clarify it? VT store has always been noted for quality, not cheap at all.

"SNIP..."CAFTA is being sold as a way to open up Central American markets to
U.S. goods, but in reality it is a way for these Central American countries
to dump more of their cheap goods in U.S. markets, displacing thousands of
U.S. workers. The agreement also eliminates the requirement that exports
from Central American clothing manufacturers use any U.S. materials in their
products, so it will harm U.S. manufacturers.
This agreement will also exacerbate our country's already huge trade
deficit. It will lead to continued outsourcing of jobs to low wage
countries. CAFTA will not benefit the United States nearly as much as our
Central American trading partners because those nations have such low wages.
How are they going to afford to import and purchase more top quality U.S.
goods? "

[DocSavage]

35. It is immaterial

whether the mfg of the shirts can use US materials or not. They could if they wanted to pay for it, and the VT store could stock a higher quality shirt if they knew that they would sell them. You get what you pay for. Want a quality shirt, be prepared to pay more than you are at the VT store. It seems that the mgt of that store has made a conscience decision to stay with a product that some of the customers deem inferior. It is up to you, as the consumer to decide what you want to do. Punish the store by not buying or reward them by buying.

[madfloridian]

42. You must not be familiar...

with the store. I was going to explain, but never mind.

[Nite Owl]

8. That is an interesting thought

you have, there might be something to it too. Like communism came to an end because it didn't work capitalism seems to on the verge. They have hit a point where the only way profits can be made is through corruption and deceit, new markets to them have to be third world markets and our American middle class lifestyles can't be maintained any longer for them to meet their bottom lines.

Welcome to DU too!

[JFN1]

18. You hit it

Right out of the park. I wondered about this 20 years ago, when I was a kid just out of the Army. A friend of mine was a manager at Arby's, and she got fired because she failed to raise sales. She was on a land-locked corner, with access from only two sides of the street. There was simply no way to jam more cars through the place - but they fired her anyway. I wondered at the time what it would mean when corporations could no longer gain in sales every year.

[Mabus]

9. Anything to cut costs

One of the reasons that I don't buy women's clothing is because I found out a long time ago that the quality isn't the same. Sounds like they're finally lowering the quality of men's clothing.

As far as being conditioned for Third World living, I doubt it. Their bottom line is much more important to them than providing quality clothing. I remember inheriting clothes from my older siblings when they outgrew them. We just passed them down to successive siblings until no one could wear them anymore and then mom would give them to our cousins or the Goodwill store. Earlier this summer my neice was visiting us. The t-shirt I sent her for Christmas is ready to be tossed. Clothes just seemed a lot more durable back then. In other words, if the product wears out quicker than you have to buy new products more often.

[raccoon]

43. "Planned obsolescence" is the term for this.

"In other words, if the product wears out quicker than you have to buy new products more often. "


Vance Packard wrote about this some time ago in THE WASTE MAKERS.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0671822942/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/102-0959016-0056100?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

[phylny]

10. I've noticed this with old shirts versus new, especially with the crap

clothes my teenagers buy from the mall.

Shirts come out of the washer and dryer misshapen, they wrinkle quickly (and I'm talking about cotton/polyester shirts!) they shrink fast, and end up looking crappy fast.

I even looked at some of my "old" shirts that I still wear, trying to see what country they're made in or what store I bought it in.

Aside: The paint job on my made in Japan Honda CRV is thin (our fingernails create scratches near the doorhandles - wtf?). It's not nearly as thick or holding up as well compared to our made in Canada Chrysler Town & Country or our made in Canada Pontiac Grand Prix.

[sweetheart]

27. 2x4's are smaller

In doing wood joinery construction, i've noticed that previously built structures are
with larger timbers, but so much depends on the choice of the designer/architect.

I have the opposite complaint with coffee cups. I hate those "thick" heavy as a boat-anchor
clay cups, and prefer a very thin bone china, as then its ligher.

But i read in to the op, rather than 'thinner', just lesser quality, in all things.

But my honda CRV, runs beautifully, when i've had to replace head gaskets on american models
at this age. Thinner means lighter with cars, and less work for the engine.

Ironic that "thinner" is definitely NOT what we are seeing in automobile curb weight.

[QuestionAll...]

12. Great post, thank you.

My first thought tho was that you were talking about Stephen Kings 'Thinner'. heh.

I could very well accept Thinner if the thinning went to labour and better work places and taxes back to community - but that 4.5 ounces are going into porcine personal pockets or end up as investments in bloody bombs to thin out populations.

[Der Blaue Engel]

13. Some of what you say has validity, but I disagree with your conclusion

This kind of fashion isn't exactly new...I've lived through the "Flashdance" ripped clothing fad, "distressed" jeans, ripped-up punk, shabby chic, grunge, hip-hop/gangsta sloppy (don't know what else to call it), and the latest "pre-worn" look.

In addition, microfiber has been a big thing for a while, and every year someone finds a way to make the Gap t-shirts I buy thinner and softer and stretchier, and all around just yummy. I love my barely there shirts, and I don't think anyone's trying to set me up to be "third world."

I just came back from the "second world," a month in Russia, where the young girls there were sporting the latest fashions that have yet to even hit the US (the Russian fashion world seems to be making up for lost time): shirts so thin that they're transparent, with colorful, decorative bras underneath for show. They could also be the product of a burgeoning capitalist economy that has to cut corners everywhere it can, but the clothes don't look particularly poorly made and they're certainly not cheap.

Now, will corporations jump at the chance to sell us less for more? Of course they will...they think only of profit margins, and always have.

[elehhhhna]

16. The new Japanese trend for toddlers are shoes that

make a freaking annoying noise (loud, too) with every step they take. Saw them all over the zoo in Chicago & it was maddening.

[savemefromdumbya]

15. Thining because of the Pentagon's budget

[roguevalley]

20. I thought I was nuts. Clothes are indeed thinner these days. We

are all going to disappear and the only people left will be Paris Hilton and her ilk.

[berni_mccoy]

23. Materials getting thinner, food is getting unhealthier and the people

are getting fatter.

[Raine]

24. Cheaper

EVERYTHING is cheaper except the price, notice they skimp but charge the same or more so THEY can make a bigger profit. :banghead: :mad:

[sendero]

26. Nice post..

...and I agree with you on the "thinner" argument. It's no different from the "pound" of coffee, hotdogs, or whatever that is now 12 oz, or the "half gallon" of ice cream that is now 1.75 liters.

I am going to have to disagree with you on the "distressed" clothing thing. Fashion is an irrational thing, an industry where all that matters is that something is "new", new colors, new sizes, new ideas. Most of these ideas are ridiculous, but people buy them because they want to look "new". And colors, sizes, fit - all recycle in about 30 years. The baggy clothes that have been sold since the mid 90s are long in the tooth. Expect 70s tight to come back soon :)

There is one maxim of any manufacturing industry that you can count on - if nobody buys it, it wont' be made for long. People buy that "distressed" crap, and that is why they make it.

[SoCalDem]

30. don't forget the 12-oz "pound" of bacon

Many years ago, the little ,often-ignored, unit price stickers that are required by law, started changing things. Even though customers rarely used them, they allowed manufacturers to start monkeying around with everything.. Shoppers' eyes used to tell them how much they were getting.. remember the old #303 cans and the standard sized coffee cans.. small was 1 lb, large was 3 lb. etc. Once the unit pricing came along, a 3lb can started shrinking, and soon after, the 1lb can.

What's tricky, for scratch cooks (like me), is that older recipes call for measurements in canned /frozen foods that no longer exist. It's a PITA to have to open TWO cans to get the quantity that a recipe calls for (and then have to discard or find other uses for what's left over)..

and the clothing thing is annoying to me too, since contemporary things (shirts for instance) within a season and "batch" can vary a lot too. example: My husband likes a certain kind of knit shirt, so when I find them, I just buy every color for him (our kids call them "Dad's uniform").. Last time I bought them, the blue, grey and tan were of one weight and the green, yellow and rust color were exactly alike in appearance, but the fabric was noticeably thinner....The price was the same..

about the raggedy clothes look... I do believe that MY generation started that "look".. Prior to the 60's, everyone was Tidy-to-the MAX... Women even wore GLOVES (and not for the warmth..

The "flower-children" just said ....enough already .
I can still remember being criticized by our "dorm-mother" for going to class inappropriately dressed.. I was wearing frayed at the bottom jeans,a tee shirt and mocassins.. this was COLLEGE..not high school..

Times changed, and for better or worse, WE changed them :evilgrin:

[Strelnikov_]

55. Store Yesterday. Pound Of Hilshire Farms Smoked Sausage Is Now 14 oz

Had it on sale, though. Notice how they always do that when they downsize.

1/2 Gallon of Breyers ice cream is now 3 pints. They advertised the new size as 'new space saver' size on the carton for the first six months or so.

Who says Orwells concepts are only applicable to politics.

[datasuspect]

58. i guess you didn't get the memo

"less is more."

[myrna minx]

28. Excellent post and welcome to DU.

:hi:

[RPM]

29. everything is thinner except the consumers....

:cry:

[BluePatriot]

31. Great post, K&R

I have wanted lately to buy some new clothes, but am running into this problem everywhere! Everything seems so flimsy now. I had never thought to tie it to the big picture but it makes good sense...

[newportdadde]

32. Freshetta pizzas are smaller, Shampoo bottles smaller, 30 year old AC stil

Two things I've noticed lately. First is my bottle of head and shoulders which I bought recently was taller but THINNER then my old bottle, it actually at first looks bigger but checking out the size it lost 2ozs.

Freshetta pizzas - We have been eating these now and again for the past few years, lately the last 4 months or so we have been having a hell of time with one side trying to bend down between the racks in the oven. I'm telling you these pizzas aren't as big either.

We recently had our AC serviced, the outside units 32 years old. Isn't that amazing? My sister bought an 8 year old house and they have already lost their outside unit.

Maybe I should keep a log and mark down sizes for staples ever 3 months, would be interesting to see the difference.

[LizW]

36. Washing machines

I recently had a pretty expensive repair done on my washing machine. The repair guy (who I trust and have used before) said the life expectancy of a new washing machine now is less than five years! My mother had one washing machine her whole life!

[kskiska]

44. My parents bought a house in 1948

and the GE refrigerator was still running in 1990 (no repairs necessary). The only reason my dad replaced it was because a visitor was coming and he wanted a real freezer for ice cream. The electric stove is still in use.

[Tesha]

60. I don't think that's generally true

> The repair guy (who I trust and have used before) said the life
> expectancy of a new washing machine now is less than five years!

I don't think that's generally true. The one big difference (so far)
today is that computer controls have replaced mechanical timers.
This is good and bad. It's good because the timers used to wear
out every ten years or so and the electronic controls don't. It's
bad in that power surges can now toast your washing machine
as well as your computer.

Washers still have drive belts, and they fail too. But that's
just routine maintenance. And the next generation of washers
will have direct-drive motors, so drive belts (and their
maintenance) will be going away.


> My mother had one washing machine her whole life!

But I'll bet she had work done on it from time to time.
As I said, timers wear out. And water fill valves. And
individual brands had individual foibles. Conventional
top-loading Maytags liked to leak at the back-flow
prevention gizmo after lime and other minerals
accumulated there. Metal fatigue causes Whirpool/
Sears machines break the bracket that holds the
transmission gear shift solenoids. And modern
Maytag Neptune front loaders have had several
design problems with their door latch wax motors
and electronic timers.

To me, washing machines (and appliances in general)
seem to be about as reliable as ever. And they're
certainly a lot more feature-rich. And in inflation-
adjusted dollars, they are probably less expensive.

All of this is not to disagree with the base post, or
the general idea that many more products are starting
to really suck, but appliances seem like a place where
modern technology is paying off rather than screwing
us.

Tesha

[Jim Warren]

33. Stealth inflation...........nt

[TexasLawyer]

45. That's my take on it too.

Net weights of products keep going down, while often the box or container stays roughly the same. We're buying a lot more "air" than we used to. Sugar and flour used to be sold in 5 pound bags-- that's a thing of the past. Granola bars come in the same sized box but they used to be bigger.

Check out the net weight of Yoplait "Whips" for example. It's primarily air. Mmmmmmm, yummy!

Competitive pressures being what they are, it is hard to increase costs, especially when the similar product sitting next to yours on the shelf hasn't yet had a price increase or made the transition to a smaller size.

Sizing down the product is just a crafty way to pass along the manufacturer's increased costs (fuel, overhead, CEO pay, etc...).

[Jim Warren]

49. MmmHmmm

Whenever ya see an old product in new packaging.

[Skidmore]

37. Two words. Consumer boycott. Massive consumer boycott.

Stop buying shoddy products. In fact, don't buy anything new unless absolutely needed. Starve the corporate beast. If a company doesn't make a car with good mileage standards, don't buy their cars--and let them know why you aren't buying.

[diamidue]

59. Already boycotting

I refuse to buy any of the "new" and "improved" clothing, bedding, furniture - anything - that is referred to as "wrinkle-free or stain-resistant. In addition to shoddy quality, you now are subjected to use items made with additional chemicals. Including the formaldehyde in wrinkle-free clothes. I will look long and hard & spend more if I have to just to avoid wearing Dow/Monsanto treated clothing.

[Skidmore]

61. Four words then...

Massive organized consumer boycott.

[WinkyDink]

38. My husband long ago called America the best Third-World country.

Our roads are crap, compared to, say, Germany's (my experience). Our lack of public transit is virtually legendary. Boston's "Big Dig" looks like something from Tito's era.
Clothing is from Sri Lanka, VietNam, the Dominican Republic (hey, aren't those workers HERE?!), and Guatemala---and that's the "good" Mall wear.
Our vaunted medicines? Contact-lens solutions blind people; SSRI's have decidely mixed results; Tylenol causes liver damage; etc. Approximately 100,000 people DIE annually from infections acquired in our hospitals.

But at least we're FREE! Even if on camera, on tape-recordings, on printed-out e-mails, on library-usage files, on product-purchase lists,....

[davekriss]

48. I agree

cuz take away our playstations
and we are a third world nation
under the thumb of some blue blood royal son
who stole the oval office and that phony election
i mean
it don't take a weatherman
to look around and see the weather
-- Ani DiFranco, Self Evident

[MGKrebs]

39. Perhaps an inevitable consequence of capitalism.

As long as the absolute lowest price is the dominant factor in purchases things will continue to get cheaper- in price and quality. I think you are probably right in saying that it ends up in a third world type of environment.

I saw a story in Fortune Small Business magazine recently where a business owner was talking about his first foray into buying raw materials from Asia becasue he could get it 25% cheaper. They made plastic bags and their previous domestic supplier would send a rail car full of resin (or something) which could be sucked right into storage tanks with a siphon. His new Asian supplier sent the material in 55 pound bags, which had to be unloaded, stacked, cut open, and poured into the storage tank. So my feeling is that he may be getting the actual material cheaper, but I'm not so sure that he has considered all the additional costs; extra (unskilled) labor, extra storage space, more waste (empty bags), in addition to longer lead times, the extra planning and management required, and the loss of domestic jobs he is contributing to. It is easy to believe that this manager will someday look up to find that although his material costs are less, his profit is the same or less, and will then think the only solution is to pay less in wages.

[cap]

41. want a little fun????

go to a really expensive department store and close your eyes and run your hand along the racks of the really really expensive designer stuff. It is wonderful. Nice, plush and thick. Then step down a bit to the entry line or "sports" version of that designer and do the same thing. You'll notice that stuff gets thinner. Go down to the regular clothes and the stuff gets noticeably thinner.

Go to your department store and run your hands over the rack. You wont want what's there. It will seem really cheesy.

So what do you do now that you've got high falutin tastes on a hamburger budget.... I've spoiled you... You cant stand crap any more... You know what your betters are shopping... Gird thy loins and hie thee to ebay and your local thrift shops. On ebay (hope you remember the stuff you really liked but couldnt afford), you can get lucky and get it new at department store prices or gently worn. Dont limit yourself to US Ebay. On UK Ebay, (yes, go global), you can get a Burberry raincoat (I got mine gently used $16) or a brand new Scottish wool sweater for about $30. Or how about less expensive Irish wool sweaters on Ireland Ebay. There are smaller manufacturers who are trying to make a go out of it. They take Paypal so it's easy to import. Or go to the thrift shop and run your hand over the rack. Your hands will start to pull out the good stuff --- quickest way I know to get past the crap in a thrift store. You will also notice a difference in color. The good stuff has color that pops and catches your eye. Buttons are another good indicator. They dont put great buttons on cheesy clothes. Buttons are one of the first places manufacturers stint on.

Shame isnt it that you cant go to a regular store, plunk down your money and get decent stuff.

My sad story that I want to contribute is Lanz nightgowns. Twenty years ago, I could tell the difference between that and JC Penny nighties. Now I cant. Same thin stuff.

As for food. Go get yourself a freezer.... A really big one. Right now. I mean today. Now is the time for fresh veggies and fruits. Get a vacuum sealer and canning stuff on ebay or a yard sale or a thrift store. Start bringing in the crop for the winter... You know prices will go up. I go to the farmers directly (much cheaper than the grocery store) and load up. I've done my zucchini and green beans. Today I'll do my tomatoes and Peaches. I can freeze corn on the cob directly so I will be loading up on corn. My farmer will give me 54 ears at $16. Cant beat that price. Herbs I will dry a bunch by hanging them in the garage. I am freezing up golabki (cabbage stuffed with hamburger and covered with a tomato sauce. Once you have really fresh cabbage, there is no going back to that dishrag stuff in the grocery store).

I am trying to find a good farmer for meat that will give a good deal on bulk purchases. My local farmer stopped doing that because the prices were too high. It was a shame. I got beautiful porterhouse steaks and crown roasts from him. My husband has to eat very lean hamburger. ($4/lb at the local supermarket. He cant eat the cheap stuff) I need to find another source.

If anyone knows a good place for chicken that ships, let me know. I want to move away from supermarket chicken.

Salmon, I can get for $6.00/lb for 20 lbs straight from Alaska. It is gorgeous fish. Look on Ebay for this deal. $6.00/lb is a deal for me as my supermarkets sell skanky fish for at least $6.00/lb. They cant even mark the fish as fresh and it is coming from third world countries. I have to go to a specialty store for fresh fish that will run me $10-14/lb. No, I dont live in Manhattan. I live 2 hours from the sea but no one sells fresh fish. I am on the lookout for cheap fresh fish. Wish I could find it. I remember paying $1-3/lb for trout and scallops. $4-7/lb when I wanted to splurge.

Look on Amazon.com for deals on your non-perishables. They have free shipping for food. I compare Amazon to my grocery store online so I know the deals. Amazon doesnt have the cheapest labels but when you want the name brand, you can get it much cheaper. My favorite is Celestial Seasonings Tea. I love the tea, but when it was going for $3.55/box at the grocery store, I was reconsidering my favorite indulgence. On Amazon, it is $2.16/box. We bought a case of it.

[TexasLawyer]

47. I'm glad to see someone else

buying food on EBay. My husband accuses me of being loco, but hey I like bargains and I have a house full of starving teenagers.

My thing lately has been protein and health bars like Luna or Clif or PowerBars. You can get them for around $.25 each (inclusive of postage) if you poke around.

Many times they're close to or just past the expiration date, but trust me they're just fine.

[cap]

67. Smiles for a fellow soul

:)... Keep lookin for bargains...

[Jose Diablo]

46. And look at the hero's being pushed on TV

Like for example that show "Hell's Kitchen". These contestants are being jacked-up for being cooks and servants. WTF, how is that a good thing? Is that the dream, to be servants for an American group of elites, to work in some rooty-toot restaurant with ferns hanging in the corner?

Then there is the dancing, singing "American Idol" contests. OK, it's interesting to watch dancing and singing, but again how does this produce anything at all, except a bunch of know-nothing performers.

What's next? Who will be selected to be "America's Best Madam"? If we go to Europe in about 5 years, will we be able to open a book of matches and find an ad that says, "Buy an American wife"? Will there be hucksters making a market selling women to Asians?

[MorningGlow]

50. But...but...we must please the stockholders!

If I hear that sorry excuse one more time... :puke:

Everything's cheaper, crappier--and yes, they charge us more and expect us to like it. After all, what recourse do we have, right? The cheap shit in Wal-Mart and other big-box stores rules, they say, and the sheeple go along.

Two cheap-ass-manufacturers' tales:

1. Last year I bought a black v-neck cotton/rayon blend T-shirt at Target for $7.99. Yeah, it was the cheap shit I just complained about, but sometimes I cave. It was a large. It fit fine, but after a year the hems at the bottom and on one of the sleeves unraveled. Normally I would fix it myself, but our house is in remodeling hell, and I can't find my sewing machine. I happened to be in Target to buy laundry detergent I can only get there (Method, unscented) and grabbed the exact same T-shirt, large. It fit me like a sausage casing, although my old one still fits fine. I had to buy a XXL for it to fit like last year's large. WTF? I have read that the more money you pay for clothes (quality clothes), the smaller the size you will wear, because quality manufacturers don't skimp on material. I guess that's so!

2. Buying peanut butter in the supermarket. MorningGlow Jr. likes Peter Pan, and he doesn't eat a whole lot of it, so I figure I might as well get it instead of trying to get a toddler to like organic peanut butter. (Choose your battles, I always say.) All the different types of Peter Pan were the same price--even the "whipped" pb, which even sounded good to me, except there were several ounces LESS in the jar. Because of the added air, doncha know. Think your average shopper is going to compare the ounces in the jar? Doubtful. But for my $2.19, I put the whipped pb back on the shelf.

And yes, I do think they're easing us toward third-world living. Their biggest enemy is the middle class because we (used to) have money but we didn't buy their bullshit, so they couldn't rely on us to vote Republican. So...get rid of us, get rid of the problem.

:tinfoilhat:

[diamidue]

51. The Walmart Effect

The book by this name is very enlightening. It explains how many manufacturers - if they want to sell at WalMart (and thus survive in the competitive market) - are forced to cut back on quality. One example is Levi Strauss. The Levis sold at Walmart are made of cheaper, thinner denim. The only thing "Levi" remaining about them is the name.

[Lisa]

52. possible to get more durable stuff at second-hand stores ...

... than brand-new off the shelf! Ironic, isn't it. (And this also addresses a concern from an earlier poster, about whether "thicker" products use up too many resources -- not if you're re-using things which have already been made.)

I went shopping for some stainless-steel pots the other day. The stuff at the local megastore was so flimsy that I went down the street to the local consignment place -- and found pots and pans which were not only much heavier (and better-constructed with more durable handles and welds) but had been made in this country, by a company which went out of business a decade ago. They cost less than half of the cheapest new stuff, too.

I also picked up a pair of Levi's, probably from the 1970s -- they had hardly been worn, and the stitching and fabric were much better quality than today's (now made offshore, I believe). I'm going back to see if they have any T-shirts in my size!

[BeHereNow]

62. YES Girl!!! I've been collecting vintage clothes for YEARS!

They are SO well made compared to what is available
today. NO comparison in the quality of fabrics and
workmanship.

I have dresses from the 30's and 40's that I have
been wearing for 20 years and they still look
brand new.

The crap you buy today is lucky to make it through
ten cycles in the washing machine (FORGET the dryer)
before the threads start coming out of the seams.

Yes, we are being conditioned to accept a far
lower standard of living on all levels, especially
in the daily living market.

It's not just the clothes, it's EVERYTHING-
the appliances, the food and all things.

BHN

[cap]

68. three cheers for Revere Ware ...

I told MIL that I have my eyes on her stuff tucked away in the attic...

[blues90]

53. Things are thinner no doubt

I used to buy blue jeans in the 70's when I worked as a brick laborer , whether they were sears or levi wrangler or lee you could not wear them out and the leather lable could be used to patch a shoe sole . now all these jeans have a papaer thin leather lable and a kitten we ahd actually tore the jean pair by climbing the leg . A 16 ounce kitten .

T-shirts you can see through now shoes fall apart and most seams are crooked . nothing lasts no matter what it is , cars are all plastic even the bumpers flex and flop .

It's one cheap joke and we pay high costs for everything . there is absolutely no pride in anything , it's all desposable crap for rags or landfill and no one cares .

Years ago we would once in a while get the apple pie from BK , the used to left over old box that the pie used to reach the top edge suddenly it was at the halfway point . trouble is after being ripped off people keep buying more . I never went to a fast food place again . I go to trift stores and find real clothes and most are new and donated and cheap , I believe in recycling and buying used when at all possible why waste good stuff .

[sandnsea]

56. It started with candy bars, years ago

I've noticed this stuff for a really long time. It's driven me around the bend and it's why I generally buy things at second hand stores and at yard sales. I can't stand buying new when I know it's just crap that will end up in a landfill in a few years. I don't know what the answer it is. It sure annoys the hell out of me when I know the amount of profits that are being made from selling this crap. Couple it with that article about Chinese pollution, and I don't blame China - I blame corporations, and we are passively contributing to our own demise.

[datasuspect]

57. but a 2006 dodge charger weighs about 1,000 pounds more

than a 1971 dodge charger. go figure.

[loudsue]

63. I'm soooo glad you're bringing this up, and have some PROOF

that what we're seeing is absolutely the way it is.

There's another thing they're doing with clothes: the sizes are smaller! The clothes I bought in a size 8 or 6 just 8 years ago, still fit. But if I go try on those same types of things these days, the size 8 of old fits like the size 12 or 14 now.

When the CDC announced last week that 68% of Americans are either overweight or obese, it just rattles my brain that all the clothes you buy fit the figure tightly. How many obese / overweight people want clothes that hug their spare tires and show off those bulges?

It seems like "self-esteem" is hard to come by when buying a lot of the mall clothes available.

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[Lisa]

64. on a related topic -- decline in nutrients in produce ...

This article was posted here at DU a while back.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/261163_veggie01.html

"In spite of what Mother taught you about the benefits of eating broccoli, data collected by the U.S. government show that the nutritional content of America's vegetables and fruits has declined during the past 50 years -- in some cases dramatically.

Donald Davis, a biochemist at the University of Texas, said that of 13 major nutrients in fruits and vegetables tracked by the Agriculture Department from 1950 to 1999, six showed noticeable declines -- protein, calcium, phosphorus, iron, riboflavin and vitamin C. The declines ranged from 6 percent for protein, 15 percent for iron, 20 percent for vitamin C, and 38 percent for riboflavin.

"It's an amazing thing," said Davis, adding that the decline in nutrient content has not been widely noticed."


I have also heard from agricultural experts and historians that the type of wheat grown at present, partly because of selective breeding and partly because of forced rapid growth with artificial nutrients, actually contains less protein than older varieties. So it's quite possible that grocery-store white bread, while comparatively cheaper than what people would have eaten back in, say, Roman times, is not as good for you.

(Two thousand years ago, it was possible to survive on a diet consisting mainly of a pound of bread per day, with oil, lentils, and maybe a bit of cheese or very rarely, meat. I have been doing some work on this, and in comparison to an assumed daily equivalent wage of $40-50, a loaf of bread would have cost about $5 .... way more expensive than the 99-cent Wonder-type bread, but approximately equivalent to those gourmet "artisan" loaves you can get at upscale health-food places today. Mass production has affected food quantity and quality, like other types of goods.)

[Bucky]

65. This also explains lowcut jeans and the return of the miniskirt.

You pay more, you get less. And while the male voters are all busy gaping at the women in their lowcut jeans and miniskirts, the damned neocons steal another election. Forturnately for democracy, Americans are all getting really fat and American men are starting to look for any distraction from American women wearing clothes entirely too revealing for their weight classes.

[enki23]

66. not our burgers. or our beer guts. or our defense budgets.

and then there's our giant, steaming piles of bullshit. those aren't getting any thinner.