Question: Israel is bombing some civilian targets in Lebanon to teach

[Tony_FLADEM]

the Lebaneese a lesson because they didn't control Hezbollah. Couldn't this be classified as terrorism?

[BuyingThyme]

1. No, it MUST be classified as terrorism.

Some call it shock and or awe.

[laura888]

2. Exactly. It IS terrorism. No doubt about it. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. Who said it was "to teach them a lesson?" Did someone say that or are

those YOUR words?

[Xeric]

5. The Israelis have made their intentions clear

From Juan Cole's site:

' According to retired Israeli army Col. Gal Luft, the goal of the campaign is to "create a rift between the Lebanese population and Hezbollah supporters." The message to Lebanon's elite, he said, is this: "If you want your air conditioning to work and if you want to be able to fly to Paris for shopping, you must pull your head out of the sand and take action toward shutting down Hezbollah-land." '

Collective punishment. War crime.

[in_cog_ni_to]

8. Where does it say Israel "will teach them a lesson?"

I don't read that anywhere. Creating a rift between the Lebanese people and Hezbollah is quite different from "teaching them a lesson." Israel would have PREFERRED that the Lebanon government honored UN Resolution 1559...REMOVE HEZBOLLAH FROM THEIR COUNTRY and if they couldn't, ask for help...which they never did. Israel is doing it for them. How is that "teaching them a lesson?" Which Israeli said they are "teaching the Lebanon people a lesson?"

[Xeric]

11. What part of collective punishment don't you get?

They are systematically bombing the infrastructure of Lebanon. Almost all the Lebanese Israel has murdered are civilians. Their intention is clear.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Murdered? So, I guess that means Hezbollah has murdered 60 Israelis,

right? Hezbollah is responsible for this escalation, not Isreal. Israel is trying to clear out Hezbollah strongholds that Hezbollah puts in highly populated areas. IF Israel wanted to "teach them a lesson" there would be THOUSANDS of people dead. This is a war. People die, unfortunately.

[Xeric]

23. Who said they weren't murdered?

This "escalation" was planned more than a year ago in meetings between the US and Israel. There is plenty of fault on both sides. But collective punishment on the part of the Israeli government has now killed hundreds of innocent people and will soon kill thousands if it continues.
Your sophomoric statements that "this is war" and "people die, unfortunately" are both callous and insulting. Those are real people. Real children. There is no justification for this.
The use of white phosphorus, bombing of infrastructure, deliberate bombing of ambulances are war crimes.

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. As is ball bearing packed rockets and firing into ONLY civilian locations

by Hezbollah. Hezbollah wanted this war, Hezbollah got their wish. Blame Hezbollah. Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000. 6 FREAKIN' years ago. Since then, Hezbollah has lobbed THOUSANDS of rockets over the blue line, killed 8 soldiers and kidnapped 2 soldiers. They were itching for this war. Why else did they stock up on arms from Iran? ......because they wanted this fight. That's why. Aim your outrage where it belongs. AT HEZBOLLAH.

Now it's callous and insulting to state a fact that THIS IS WAR and people die, UNFORTUNATELY? Strange. Very strange.


Who says the Israelis weren't murdered? You neglected to mention the DEAD Israelis in your post. You cried in outrage over the dead Lebanese, but I didn't hear any outrage over the dead Israelis. I just wanted to point out the obvious bias in your post.

[breakaleg]

24. You say that Israel is removing Hezbollah "for them". read on

That would be great, if they asked for help. But the didn't, so it's not considered help.

By the same token, does Israel need help enforcing UN resolutions 242 and 338? If another country were to "help" them enforce them, how would that be viewed?

It's laughable that Israel quotes this current resolution but ignores others. They can't have it both ways.

[newyawker99]

32. Hi breakaleg!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[TahitiNut]

7. Various Israeli government officials have repeatedly stated

... that they hold the Lebanese government responsibile for not having rid their country of Hizbollah.

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. Right. UN resolution 1559 states that the Lebanese Government

will remove Hezbollah and if they are unable to do so, they should ask for help, which they never did. That isn't saying they are "teaching the Lebanese people a lesson." That is saying, "we will do it for you."

[TahitiNut]

16. Well, over 600 dead Lebanese civilian non-combatants say otherwise.

:shrug:

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. That is not "teaching them a lesson." That's war.

Unfortunately people die...on BOTH sides.

[malaise]

33. Please post all the UN resolutions which

Israel refused to follow. History does not begin with 1559.

[Xeric]

4. It is a war crime

It is collective punishment, and that is a war crime.

From Juan Cole's site:


Brigadier General Dan Halutz, the Israeli Chief of Staff, emphasised that the offensive . . . was open-ended. “Nothing is safe (in Lebanon), as simple as that,” he said. '

In other words, Halutz, who is also said to have threatened ten for one reprisals, is openly declaring that he will commit war crimes if he wants to. Nothing is safe? A Christian school in the northern village of Bsharri? A Druze old people's home in the Shouf mountains? A Sunni family out for a stroll in the northern port of Tripoli? He can murder all of them at will, Halutz says."

[Rex]

6. Not terrorism, mass terrorism.

Bombs from the sky. The lesson is all about hate and intolerance on both sides. I've watched footage from both sides and the kids are all yelling for blood and vengeance.

[SammyBlue]

10. Yet, when Hezbollah and Hamas slaughter children, the world turns

a blind eye. It's only wrong when Israel attacks or responds to terrorist attacks, kidnappings, murder, etc.

Munich was fine in the eyes of the world. Hell, the IOC didn't give Israel a day to mourn because the games must continue. But Operation Wrath of G-d (Israel's response) was denounced by the entire western world.

Same here. As I keep saying. . .they're just Jews. Who cares?

[Xeric]

12. Who is turning a blind eye?

Most of the governments of the world have condemned terrorist attacks on Israel.
It just does NOT justify the use of collective punishment, white phosphorus and bombing of ambulances.

Your hyperbole aside, Munich was NOT fine in the eyes of the world.

[Rex]

13. I've stopped watching the adults, apparently they don't care anymore.

The rest of the world recognizes hezbollah as part of the Lebanese parliament. I agree, it is a totally fucked up situation, but I don't think everyone is coming down on Israel, just imagine if Iran would have bombed a well known UN post for hours and hours and hours. Israel will investigate and no one will say anything about it because America is in Israels corner no matter how bad things get. I must say that Israel needs someone like America in it's corner because who else supports Israel? What other nations? Who actually supports Iran and Syria. Who supports America?

Hezbollah commits terrorism by killing people, Israel commits mass terrorism not because of any other reason but advanced weaponry. It's all terrorism, just different amounts of it. Just think of dropping an atom bomb, is that terrorism? I think it is.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[Xeric]

17. The past absolves war crimes in the present?

I'm Jewish and have been to Europe several times and I think what you are saying is nonsense. There is anti-Semitism in Europe and here but not to the extent you imagine nor is it institutionalized. You are living in the past.
Claiming that Europe are all bigots and racists is ridiculous. This kind of paranoia and insulting attitude does not help anybody.

[SammyBlue]

18. I'm Jewish and I've been to Europe too.

I've witnessed and dealt with it first hand.

[Rex]

20. Stalin and Hitler killed millions of Jews.

Didn't matter the type of government or economic system they killed millions just the same; like sheep and cattle. No one should ever forget that. There is a huge amount of animosity towards Jews and it is just plain wrong.

However, when Israel flattens 10 story buildings with bombs, those facts become diminished to the poor guy looking for his kids body parts. It's all sad and unnecessary, a tremendous waste of life.

[Xeric]

22. And your anecdotal evidence suggests what?

I'm sorry you had a bad experience in Europe but that hardly implies that all of Europe is somehow a nest of anti-Semites nor does it excuse the war crimes of the Israeli government. Your attitude suggests you expect anti-Semitism whether it exists or not. That says more about you than it does about Europe.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xeric]

28. Sorry you feel that way

I haven't seen anyone give Hamas and Hezbollah free passes. I certainly haven't.

If you think "Israel has not gone far enough" with collective punishment in Lebanon than you haven't learned the essential lesson of the Holocaust. "Never Again" means NEVER AGAIN TO ALL GENOCIDES AND ALL BIGOTRY. It is not something owned by just us Jews. It is a lesson for the entire human race.

The JDL are extremists. The followers of Kahane are morally bankrupt. They are part of the problem and not the solution. To go that way leads only to more hate and more destruction.

[SammyBlue]

30. To be honest, I don't give a rat's ass about the opinion on Israel

of DUers anymore. I'll stick to domestic issues. . .at least there, we have commonality. I've had it with the bullshit!

I am. . .I just don't give a shit!

[lumpy]

26. I thought you were giving up on us.

Please stay, we understand pain. We all have known discimination of one kind or another. Many people in this world have suffered dearly and tragically because of it. It is not an exclusive problem. These are my thoughts about bigotry exclusive of what is going on in the Mideast.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

34. Really? Where, and in what form?

I'm Jewish, and live in the UK, and the only racial prejudice I've ever encountered is from people who think I'm a Muslim.

That said, I know that some countries do have much more of a problem with the far right than we do. Jean-Marie le Pen won something like 18% of the vote in a presidential election in France a few years ago.

[Senator]

14. Not as bad as "mushroom clouds ... in 45 minutes," but probably

I suppose Israel can claim they bombed the Beirut airport out of fear of the dreaded Hizballah Air Force, but that might not pass the smell test.

I would guess the real reason would be ... uh, .... hmmm.

Sorry, I got nothin.

---

[yurbud]

25. that would be ironic since we chased Syria out of Lebanon and they were

restraining Hezbollah.

What was Hezbollah doing before they grabbed those two soldiers?

[Clarkie1]

29. I do not believe they are doing that.

Civilians have gotten caught in the crossfire, and that's primarily Hezbollahs deliberate doing (the organization who loves death) not the Israelis.

Edit: I am glad that the rate of civilian casualties occuring has decreased dramatically in recent days. We can expect that the worst is over as far as civilians getting caught in the crossfire now that areas have been evacuated and only the militia is remaining held up in more confined areas.