The "hiding among civilians" myth of Hezbollah Fighters....

[leftchick]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/28/hezbollah/index_np.html

Throughout this now 16-day-old war, Israeli planes high above civilian areas make decisions on what to bomb. They send huge bombs capable of killing things for hundreds of meters around those targets to destroy them, and then blame the inevitable civilian deaths -- the Lebanese government says 600 civilians have been killed so far -- on "terrorists" who callously use the civilian infrastructure for protection.

But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters -- as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers -- avoid civilians like the plague. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators -- as so many Palestinian militants have been.



A dog walks through the rubble of buildings hit by Israeli airstrikes in the nearly deserted town of Nabatiya, Lebanon, on Tuesday.


... you can read the rest after viewing the very short intro.

[ThomCat]

1. One of the big problems with Pro-Israel fanatics

is that they concoct hypothetical justifications and then treat them as fact.

They seem to honestly believe that there were terrorists in each and every one of those thousands of destroyed homes.

They seem to honestly believe that those destroyed ambulances were being used to shuttle weapons.

The seem to honestly believe that terrorists were hiding in every destroyed factory, farm and business.

The lack of critical thinking is disturbing.

Edit for spelling.

[ComerPerro]

3. Same as pro-Iraq war people

[Minstrel Boy]

9. a common blindspot of nationalists in wartime

Naturally, Orwell said it best: "The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."

[leftchick]

19. well now

what a perfectly acurate quote for these times. Thank you MB.

[oberliner]

10. same is true of blame-israel-for-everything fanatics

Who are certain that Israel would intentionally kill UN peacekeepers for no apparent reason.

Here are some words from the author of the same article in the OP:

"But as I was dealing with the question of whether Hizbollah launches attacks from close proximity to Lebanese civilians, and not the UN, due to their penchant for extreme secrecy, I decided to pass on including it. In part because it might be seen as an unfair shot at the IDF when we really don't know what Hizbollah was doing nearby when it happened. I also have a hard time imagining the IDF didn't know what they were hitting, and an equally difficult time envisioning they would intentionally kill four UN observers. So I didn't touch that one but think it is well worthy of further investigation."

[ThomCat]

11. The problem with this is,

At what point does circumstantial evidence indicate that Israel is doing this stuff deliberately?

How many furnture factories, dairy farms, hospitals, ambulances, and other such targets have to be "accidentally" targetted before it becomes clear that they are deliberately targetting sites they shouldn't?

Israel has a history now of large scale, continuous attrocities. At what point does the simple mass of attrocities itself become evidence?

[oberliner]

13. I understand why you would feel this way

I don't disagree that Israel has targetting the locations you mentioned, and I don't think they would even claim to have done so accidentally. Condemnation for Israel's destruction of Lebanese infrastructure is entirely appropriate.

My view is that these actions are being done in an (arguably misguided) attempt to destroy Hezbollah not to deliberately kill civilians or UN personnel.

Hezbollah should share some responsibility for the horrific deaths of large numbers of civilians.

I do not agree that Israel's history can be described in the manner you opted for. At least not to a degree different from that of other states who have engaged in military actions.

[Critters2]

20. No apparent reason?

There is an apparent reason--to keep observers from seeing what Israel doesn't want seen.

You'll never convince me that Israel, with its self-proclaimed "surgical precision" hit that UN post accidentally.

[sgxnk]

21. admission

"You'll never convince me that Israel, with its self-proclaimed "surgical precision" hit that UN post accidentally"

that's an interesting admission

iow, NO amount of evidence will convince you to change your mind

you rarely see people admit to such close minded certainty

congrats

i, for one, am open to evidence on either side

that's what being an open mind subject to rational debate means

saying "you'll never convince me" says the exact opposite

[ComerPerro]

2. Even in Iraq, the "hiding among civillians" excuse

has always just sounded like exactly that. An exucse for laziness in actually finding the terrorists, and an excuse to shoot up entire towns and bomb recklessly.

[leftchick]

4. some folks are making a LOT of money

from all of that bomb dropping. :(

[ComerPerro]

6. That's why we did shock and awe

[treestar]

12. Even if it were true, it seems rather cruel to just kill the civilians

Israel would have more sympathy making the choice to let the terrorists survive because killing them would mean killing innocent people. Then the rest of the world would come to their aid.

I have a hard time believing there is no better way and that it is impossible to root out the actual terrorists.

The CIA had information on who was going to what safe house in what country. They knew about the meetings. And the Mossad can't do that?

Israel makes no effort to make friends in those areas, and get someone on their side. Their actions seem guaranteed to make more enemies and to make it more dangerous for them to live in the area as a result. There were Jews in the area before the creation of Israel, and they got along with the Arabs for the most part. Christian and Muslim.

[TX-RAT]

5. The UN has a difference of opinion.

UN official accuses Hezbollah of 'cowardly blending' among civilians

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/742562.html

[ComerPerro]

7. im amazed how quickly people throw around the word "coward"

when talking about people who can't practice our form of conventional warfare.

I belive the term is "The bravery of being out of range"

[MyNameGoesHere]

14. Yes and same guy

Jan Egeland accused Israel of being heavy handed and has sponsored relief efforts for lebanon. So your one sided point?

[everythingsxen]

23. The same official also said..

U.N. official scores Hezbollah
But a day after criticizing Israel for “disproportionate” strikes against civilians, U.N. humanitarian chief Jan Egeland accused Hezbollah of “cowardly blending” among Lebanese civilians.

“Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children,” Egeland said. “I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don’t think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men.”

(Underline added by me for emphasis)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13929959/


I realize these are wasted arguments here at DU anymore. The "Israel is EEEEEVIL!!!11" faction screeches much louder. The same arguments of "Israel is targeting civilians" and "Israel is committing genocide"; ignoring the fact that Israel has flown several hundred sorties and fired countless artillery shells and has only killed a few hundred civilians. I say only, because if Israel actually wanted to commit genocide or target civilian, that body-count would be about 1000 times higher. The "Israel is Evil" crowd rejects out of hand any possibility other than "Israel is committing murder"; no investigation, no objectivity.

[wtmusic]

8. keyword: "among"

the scope of which sort of depends on what weapons are being used...

will all military personnel please report to the desert and meet up at the huge bullseye in the sand?

[xchrom]

15. indeed -- u.s. military personnel and infrastructure is

among our civilians -- the same is true of britain -- the same is true of many if not all countries and armed forces.

all modern warfare is purposely conducted against civilians -- for a reason.

we haven't done otherwise since we stopped lining up in long rows and clubbing each other.

[CuteNFuzzy]

16. Thanks

It's obvious that the claim is meant to excuse Israeli atrocities, but some insight and evidence helps.

[Scurrilous]

17. K & R

:kick:

[kenny blankenship]

18. We can believe this reporter on the cratered ground of S. Lebanon, or

we can believe the MSM 'reporting' from broadcast studios in New York and doing standup interviews (with nothing of importance in the background) on the quiet side of the Israel-Lebanese border.

[smacky44]

22. They are much better trained and much smarter than their PLO

coutnter parts. This Hizbollah army will not be defeated easily and Israel will pay a heavy toll for their arrogance and distortions/