Question about the rapture.

[bling bling]

I read on another post that some people believe the rapture is supposed to happen next week. So I have a question.

If I'm not a Christian, and neither is my husband, does that mean my baby, who is too young to read or talk) is also not a Christian? Or would God give her the benefit of the doubt and scoop her up from us during the rapture?

If so, that leads to another question. What if a woman who is not Christian is pregnant. Would God give the fetus the benefit of the doubt and somehow rapture the fetus?

Just curious.

[jobycom]

1. I think the Rapture has more to do with

eating cars and bars and guitars, and stuff like that.

[Bill McBlueState]

83. ha!

Well-played, sir. :rofl:

[Freedom_from_Chains]

2. No, according to fundamentalist theology, you are all going to hell.

[wtmusic]

5. It's never too late to repent

Best wait til it looks like the shit is going down, THEN get on your knees

[Freedom_from_Chains]

12. ROTFLMAO

I am pretty sure they have a name for people like you but at the moment I can't quite seem to recall it. :evilgrin: :toast:

[wtmusic]

21. The Church of Jesus Christ as a Last Resort

Just want to keep all options open... :toast:

[Freedom_from_Chains]

22. Hedge your bets. Always a good strategy.

For myself, I'm currently looking into Judaism. :hi:

[mongo]

52. Yep. Jesus wrote a blank check

one I haven't cashed just yet...

[Norquist Nemesis]

3. What I want to know is who told them it's next week?

Who is this person that has been able to decode the word of God (or otherwise received word from God) that's when it will be? Is that person really the Devil?

[liberal N proud]

7. Pat Robertson? - I don't know but maybe bu$h

bu$h claims that God talks to him

[AndyA]

9. No man will know. The fact that some have stated it will be next week

just about guarantees it won't be.

I really do believe that as long as there's an ounce of goodness and love in the world, mankind will be given the chance to make things right. Adam and Eve screwed up right off the bat, and ever since the opportunity to right that wrong has been made available to us.

Despite all the violence in the world, there is still a lot of love. Random acts of kindness to strangers that prove there's still a chance for humanity. We just need to get the people who love war out of positions of power.

If we could have a real, born again Christian in The White House, someone who really does follow the teachings of The Bible, things would be vastly different for all of us, and the world.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

18. Man has been predicting the end of time since the beginning of time.

To date, he has been 100% wrong.

[bling bling]

28. Amen to that. n/t

[Critters2]

70. I had a parishioner once

who said that God would set a time, then some nutjob would figure it out and announce it, and that would piss God off, so God would move it to another date. Seems about as plausible as anything else I've heard on this topic.

[Bill McBlueState]

86. is that really what you want?

Do you really want someone who "really does follow the teachings of the Bible" in charge of the government? There's a lot of stuff in there that has no place in a modern, secular state. For example, you'd have a hard time keeping slavery illegal if you were going on biblical law.

[AndyA]

90. I was thinking more along the lines of "all are created equal,

do unto others," etc. Not a literal interpretation. The Bible is a very old work, and much of it is outdated and not acceptible in today's society, but I think the basic guidance of loving others, helping the ill and poor, etc., would be good to follow.

[louis-t]

13. Bush told them.

He will be on vacation next week, laughing his dumb ass off.

[RebelOne]

16. Here is how they know.

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=264708

[Norquist Nemesis]

24. Interesting. Of course, it would never occur to them

that a false prophet is leading the charge on this.

[RebelOne]

32. Of course, it would never occur to them that

the rapture is total bull. I would like to see their reaction when it doesn't happen on Aug. 3.

[hashibabba]

37. Jesus said NO MAN

will know the day and the hour when He will return. I don't know who isn't reading their Bible, but nobody means nobody. If it were to happen on Aug. 3 it would just be a lucky guess.

[RebelOne]

59. Well, it ain't going to happen Aug. 3 or anytime at all.

[bling bling]

64. Their reaction when it doesn't happen? They'll probably blame Clinton.

Or the liberals.

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. Good point. What happens to all my sperm?

:yoiks:

[DinahMoeHum]

6. . . .or my eggs??

:rofl:

[hashibabba]

15. Your baby won't go to hell.

It is generally agreed that a child won't go to hell until he's reached an age (varies with child) where he is aware enough to choose his own relationship with Christ.

Fundamentalists don't say you will all go to hell. I guess you and your husband would go, but not your child.

On the other hand, maybe when we get to the great beyond we won't even be aware of our previous relationships on earth.

There's always time to accept Christ as your Savior if you so desire. Right up until the point of death you still have the option of accepting the truth of Jesus Christ and being saved (as the thief on the cross next to Jesus found).

[bling bling]

33. That's cool. But what about the babies of muslims or buddists?

"It is generally agreed that a child won't go to hell until he's reached an age (varies with child) where he is aware enough to choose his own relationship with Christ."

I wonder if that would apply to children born in the middle east, for example. The baby of a Muslim couple will almost certainly choose a Muslim religion, at least at first.

[hashibabba]

39. These children still would not go to hell.

They still aren't able to make their own decision on who or what to believe in.

[Ravenseye]

49. Bible Verse

Where in the bible does it say that?

How old does someone have to be before they're considered old enough to make their own decision? What if they grew up in a Hindi household off in a farm in India and never really were exposed to Christianity? Let's say he's a really nice guy too, good to his neighbors, respectfull, helps everyone in need, etc. How old does he have to be to go to hell, or not? Bible verse that tells us this?

[MamaBear]

8. Fundamentalist teaching

"The streets of hell are paved with the skulls of unbaptized babies."

This delilghtful verdict was delivered to my Mother, who had lost her first infant to a birth defect after he managed to hang on for 24 hours.

Ain't they delightful folk?

[Ravenseye]

26. Yeah. Really make me want to convert.

You know if there is only one "True God" and he's the kind of guy who would pave the streets of hell with the skulls of innocent babies who, through no fault of their own, they haven't been baptized before they die from a horrific birth defect...

Well you know what? I'm not going to worship that prick. Sorry. He can threaten me with eternal hellfire too, and that won't work.

I'd rather burn eternally than worship some jerk who threatens me with being tortured for eternity if I don't.

[hashibabba]

34. It is absolutely not true

that the streets will be paved with the skulls of innocent children. There is NO scriptural basis for that remark.

[Ravenseye]

47. I agree with you

Since there is no scriptural basis for it, and that hell doesn't exist, I absolutely agree with you.

I'm just saying that the people who say this kind of crap are insane and aren't selling their religion well.

[MamaBear]

91. Of course it isn't.

But the point is that a woman carrying a worn and used Bible stood in our living room one afternoon and said those words to my mother. I was a witness.

Now, my Mom is pretty formidable in her own way, and she has very strong beliefs concerning God and the afterlife; still, for the rest of her life she was just branded with that image. She repeats that story to this day, and the incident took place at least forty years ago.

It is the off-hand cruelty of a person who was convinced she was doing my Mom a big favor and helping to save her soul, blah blah blah.

[MamaBear]

93. Yeah.

I was there when that little billet doux was delivered, and it's been a concept I've been dealing with to this day.

Some people love religion because it gives them a path to power, or maybe perceived power, that might not be available to them otherwise.

I found it very moving and affirming to read my thoughts stated so simply, positively and eloquently by another. Thanks so much.

[bling bling]

44. Oh, that's beyond reprehensible.

I saw a bumper sticker a couple of months ago that said "the road to hell is paved with Republicans." Now THAT I believe.

[PATRICK]

10. Abstaining

from sex would seem part of the general preparation so be patient with these folk. They might be a bit on edge- or worried about what will happen if nothing happens.

[panader0]

11. Rapture Schmapture Bullshit

Remember those idiots who all killed themselves (after castrating themselves) so they could join the Muthaship in the tail of the comet Kahoutek? It's a crock.

[leftupnorth]

14. According to the Left Behind series

all children under fourteen born or unborn, no matter what, will be raptured.

[Ravenseye]

23. Bible Verse?

The thing that gets me about the Rapture Fundamentalists is how they are so supposedly taking the bible literally and yet the Rapture isn't even mentioned. Their main reference that people will 'rise up' refers to ressurection of the dead. The whole idea didn't even originate until the 19th century for crying out loud.

They practically read the Left Behind series as if they were handbooks as to what is going to happen. So not only is there no biblical reference to the rapture, but they also have one saying that kids under 14 are fine? Nice way to sucker people in. "oh don't worry, you can join our church and your kids won't be left behind after you rise up into the air."

Idiots.

[hashibabba]

27. There is scripture on the rapture

The term Rapture may be new (19th century?), but the idea of being caught away in the twinkling of the eye is as old as the Bible. See 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 AND I Thessalians (can't remember the actual verse offhand).

[Ravenseye]

43. No there isn't

All those verses have to do with resurrection. The raising of the dead.

When they say "rise up" in english they are saying basically "raise from the dead". It's partially a problem with reading a version of the bible in english, and partially a completely piss poor reading. There's a reason that the idea of "the rapture" didn't exist until the 19th century.

On top of that there is NOTHING that says that kids under 14 will be fine. They totally make this shit up.

[LostinVA]

46. No, there isn't

The Rapture is NOT based in scripture, and has been taught by quite a few Christians as being heresy. No one outside of Fundamentalist preachers will say it's Biblical... 'cause it ain't. It's part of the Johannian lit, like the Gospel of John, that many scholars say shouldn't even be part of the canon. It was a "code book" for early Christians.

It's a 19th Century movement (that included the forming of the LDS, too).

[WePurrsevere]

79. Here's what Jesus supposedly said about what some call the "rapture"

Matthew 24 is the Bible chapter that I believe the "Left Behind" series is loosely based on. (Which sounds like a take off of an early 1970's movie called "A Thief in the Night".

From the King James version:

Matthew 24

1 - And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 - And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 - And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 - And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 - For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 - For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 - All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 - Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 1 - 0And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 - And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 - But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) 16 - Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 - Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 - Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 - And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 - But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 - And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 - Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 - Behold, I have told you before. 26 - Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 - For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 - For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 - And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 - Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 - So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 - Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 - Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 - But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 - But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 - For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 - And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 - Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 - but know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 - Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

OTOH he also supposedly said this about the end times when he would some into his Kingdom":

Matthew 16 -
27 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 - Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Italics are mine btw... pointing out two verses where Jesus said the end times would be during the lifetimes of some living at that time... one of those bug-a-boo contradictions many skeptics often refer to.

Personally I feel that since Jesus often taught in parables and metaphores most of what he supposedly said should be looked at in that light as well as taking into consideration the times he lived in and how many times the Bible stories have been "translated" and how much has been culled out... accidentally or deliberately (check out the Gnostics and their history).

(religious disclaimer: Although I am very well trained, am legally recognized as a member of Clergy, and long ago was even a Sunday School teacher (and married to a fundie), I am not what many "Christians" would define as one. I am much more eclectic then that... more Unitarian from what I understand. :) )

[leftupnorth]

29. You're right, there is no real bible reference to the "Rapture"

It's a "true" myth created by 19th century crackpots. It has been capitalized on by the Christian nationalists and Dominionists for the last 50 years in particular.

[Ravenseye]

55. Here's the big passages from Thessaloians.

1 Thessalonians 4 (this is the new international version)

13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

They're talking about RAISING THE FREAKING DEAD, not rising into heaven. Not that this sounds much saner (the whole world becoming a George Romero movie) but it's totally not "The Rapture"

[hashibabba]

57. You apparently didn't read the entire thing....

After that, we who are still ALIVE and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

[hashibabba]

58. You apparently didn't read the entire thing....

After that, we who are still ALIVE and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

[Ravenseye]

68. You apparently like to interpret things the way you like.

So you think that a concept created in 1831 in Scotland which never existed previous to that, based on a poor english translation of the original greek, and one line in the bible, is true?

If you read that verse and get the rapture out of it...Well that's fine. Can I make up big complicated shit stories too based on other verses?

Have fun with that.

Every word written by Paul is crap. That's my opinion. He studied under Peter for 15 days. 15 days. That's it. 15 days and he gets to go off and 'spread the word', much of it completely and utterly discordant from what Jesus said.

Do you believe the Old Testament is valid as well? Do you think gay marriage is wrong and people who eat lobster are unclean?

[calico1]

17. Well, according to a post I read here yesterday

you can prepare yourself in only two minutes! Don't remember the exact words or the title of the thread but supposedly if you accept Jesus and ask him for forgiveness and all that, you are all set! Now, as for your baby, unless you can teach him to talk within a very short time, I'm afraid he/she is out of luck. :rofl:

[Ravenseye]

25. Yup that's their premise

It's like the Jack Chick booklet...Basically you have these two missionaries sitting next to a maniac on the way back to the states. The two missionaries were famous and had worked their whole lives to help people. Then the guy basically tells them that their good works don't matter and they're both going to hell, etc.

Basically it doesn't even take two minutes. All you have to do is, honestly, repent all your sins and accept Jesus as your lord and savior and ask for forgiveness and bingo bango bongo you're good.

Of course you have to actually mean it. If you're insincere it doesn't count. You could be on death row after raping and murdering 100 girls under the age of 10, before you ate them and made clothes of their skin, and yet...if sitting their with the cap on your head ready to fry, you honestly and truly ask Jesus to forgive you and repent your sins....you're going to heaven.

At least according to some of these people.

Meanwhile the nice missionaries, because they didn't actively convert people, are going to hell.

Nice god they have there. No thanks.

[hashibabba]

30. The missionaries won't go to hell for not converting people...

That's not scriptural, as is true with a lot of the stuff on this board that people ascribe to fundamentalists. I think a lot of people are talking about cults, but not actual born-again Christians. I know they do make a lot of mistakes, but get the real facts please.

[Ravenseye]

45. Most of what they blieve is non-scriptural

Or at least it's a completely twisted reading of scripture.

http://www.chick.com/default.asp

The people who believe this crap are the people I'm talking about. The people who think Noah's Ark is a true story, and that the world is only 6000 years old.

The people who come up to you on the street and tell you that the rapture is coming and that they're preparing to rise up to god, and honestly believe that they will literally rise up off the ground and go up through the clouds into heaven.

I saw an online poll on MSNBC once (so it's of course suspect) but it showed that a large percentage of americans believed this was going to happen in their lifetimes.

I'm sorry. It's insane. The rapture is NOT in the bible hidden in a little line in first Thessalonians. Sorry.

[LostinVA]

48. No, it's "Born Again" Christians who believe and teach this stuff

Not cults, not at all. Fundamentalist churches, including quite a few Baptist ones. Some Evangelical churches, too.

Those are the real facts. I know of which I speak, I'm not just giving my opinion.

[hashibabba]

60. Wong again

Not in any of the churches I went to (including fundies and evangelical) have taught most of what you people are talking about.

[LostinVA]

74. Nope, I am right

That is what they believe -- that is their doctrine. A good comparative religion book will help you out. Or go talk to a Baptist minister or a Nazarene pastor.

And... who are "you people"? Just curious...

[Ravenseye]

77. Democrats

Democrats I think. non-paulist christians maybe. unitarians. pagans.

All us non-fundie folk who have got our whole lives ALL wrong cause we don't go to the right church and haven't been born again.

[LostinVA]

50. The whole "good works" thing means nothing in regards to faith

There was a good thread in GD about that a week or two ago.

That's why I find the Born Again thing rather an antithesis to real Christianity.

[Ravenseye]

56. Yeah

didn't see that thread, but I agree with it being an antithesis. The stuff they spout is just so....evil.

[kittenpants]

19. I saw a thread here yesterday about freepers trying to 'save' their pets

so that they wouldn't be left behind in the rapture. There was a quote from some freak who told her dog every day to prepare his soul for the coming of the lord! So I guess babies are not excused either according to that "logic".

[Ravenseye]

20. You'd all be left behind

Get used to it.

Luckily for you though it's all total BS and it really doesn't matter...but yeah, according to them you all get left behind.

[Prophet 451]

31. I wish the Rapture were true

If The Rapture happened, we'd get rid of all teh crackpot fundies.

[KyuzoGator]

36. Actually, they'd be the "false believers" left behind.

The people who truly follow Christ's teachings (and this does not necessarily mean Christians) are the ones who'll vanish.

[Lyric]

62. The problem with false believers

is that they all think *they're* the real deal and someone else is the false believer.

The sickest part is that they'll come right and tell you exactly what I just said above, but never realize that there's a distinct possibility that they might be talking about themselves. The arrogance of their faith simply doesn't allow any room for doubt. It's very troubling.

[Prophet 451]

94. Depends on your interpretation

I'm a Luciferian (a devil-worshipper) which is a form of maltheism. So if the most God-like people go and seeing as I believe God is as much a hate-filled crackpot as teh worst of fundies, I'd be quite looking forward to their absence.

[Fleshdancer]

42. My fear is that they wouldn't....that would totally screw up my rapture

I don't see why the crackpots would leave though. Can you be filled with that much hate and still be taken? :shrug:

[bling bling]

63. If it's true, we won't have to worry about Bush anymore!

Or his evil cronies. Hey, those of us left behind can split their fortunes. We'll all be millionnaires!!!

[DarbyUSMC]

35. Back in the day, when I took Moody Bible Institute courses, this was the

scoop. Believers will be caught up in the sky when Christ returns. Everyone else will be here on earth to go through the tribulation at which time people of any faith or no faith can still convert to believing but will have to remain here for the seven years of tribulation.

In addition, children under the age of accountability, which is different for each child based on their understanding but usually is around twelve years old, are also caught up in the sky. If a non believer is carrying a child, she doesn't lose the child.

There are pre-tribulation believers and post-tribulation believers (the Rapture occurs before the seven years or it occurs after the seven years).

One could theorize that we have been in tribulation since "his highness" was put into office. On the other hand others may say that this is a preview of it.

I've never known any evangelical or fundamentalist Christian who believed that children were doomed to hell. That was a belief and maybe still is in the Catholic church. Infant baptism is not a part of the evangelical churches, nor the fundamentalists churches. People are baptized after they believe whether children or adults. The theory is that God knows the heart of each person anyway so no one truly knows who is or who isn't a believer although "you will know them by their love" or "you will know them by the fruits they bear" should be an indication. Many non-believers fit this description though.
(The fruits of the spirit:
love;
joy;
peace;
patience;
kindness;
goodness;
faithfulness;
gentleness;
self-control)

Based on those traits ----- it's pretty obvious that something is very wrong in Christendom and has been from the start. Wars, blood, killing in the name of God or a religion has been the norm. Humans have mutilated the plain and simple ways that mankind could have followed to get along with their fellow man.

[LostinVA]

53. That has NEVER been a belief in the Catholic Church

The Church has never believed children are doomed to Hell. They sued to believe non-Christian babies/children went to Limbo (a place just like Heaven but without God, but since you didn't believe in God, it was okay), or Heaven. I was raised RC, taught catechism, studied comparative religion, and can say this is false.

Children after their First Communion are considered (in layman's terms) to then be under "Free Will," but it has always generally been believed that even after that age, young children can't commit a mortal sin, and would go -- at the worst -- to Purgatory.

[Ravenseye]

61. Yeah

I had a number of talks with an old priest about this stuff once. I'm not catholic but went to a catholic school for awhile and dated a girl for 4 years who made me go to church with her...So you're a better expert than me but...

Yeah from what I was told, the Catholic position is that baptism removes the original sin, and you're basically fine until first communion at which point you're on your own (confessions, behave or burn, etc) but if you never recieve the message, never get offered a baptism, etc....you'll be fine as well.

Basically if you are some baby in the backwoods of Vietnam and are born and die without baptism...you're fine. If you're 50 years old and die of a heart attack, if a missionary never spoke to you enough to get you to actually think about it and talk abotu it....you're fine...

You're only in trouble if you actually 'recieved the word' and then denied it.

My argument to that was that how likely was someone raised in a completely different religion (islam, buddhism, hinduism, animism), raised to believe in the truth of something totally and utterly different....how likely was it that they would say "oh ok I'll change? If you're not raised in the religion, and more particularly if you're raised in something else, you're going to have a hard time being converted.

Just look at how christian conversions have occured in differnet parts of the world. They are most prevalent in areas where a christian power came in and colonzied and dominated the area, and then controlled the local population through different means, one of them being religion. Come to church or you won't eat is apretty powerfull lesson. Come to church and we'll give your children a free education, is another pretty powerfull way to do it.

My point is that a free thinking, economically comfortable Hindu isn't going to be approached by a Christian missionary and just say "hey that makes sense." He might respect the other persons beliefs, but the missionary has as much chance of changing his mind, as the Hindu does of changing the missionaries. So why should that person therefore be punished.

Limbo gets thrown in to the equation.

Then I look for bibilical evidence and can't find what they're talking about.

It's just all such a mess. So much easier in my religion.

[LostinVA]

71. No more Limbo -- that disappeared a while ago

Now, infants and children just pop up to Heaven.

[Ravenseye]

73. Sweet

What's the age cutoff for kids? Communion age? After that everyone else burns?

[LostinVA]

76. Basically

After First Confession/First Confession, you're supposed to be at the age of reason... but, you're fine unless you commit a mortal sin and don't confess it. Not too many kids commit murder or fornication, though...

[Ravenseye]

78. Bah

Confession...too much effort.

I think i'll just burn. I'm too lazy to do confessions. :) At least with the burning I'll be chained up to a wall or something and won't have to expend myself too much. Plus I've heard that after a while of being tortured the pain becomes pleasurable, so really...that'd be an eternity of pleasure. Not to shabby.

[LostinVA]

87. Since I'm a Heathen now and don't believe in Hell, I figure I'm safe

[renate]

81. that is SO RUDE!!!!

What were missionaries THINKING? "Hmm... there's a bunch of people who, if they never hear the word, are still going to be allowed up into heaven (which is the main benefit of being saved, right?) and they're only screwed if we take it upon our fabulous selves to come and talk to them and fail to be convincing? Well, here we come!" Weren't they condemning 99% of the people they talked to to hell by just showing up amongst them?

It's lucky for their unwilling audiences that God isn't actually mean.

[Individualist]

65. Never say never

Someone apparently forgot to tell you about St. Augustine. www.religioustolerance.org/limbo2.htm

[LostinVA]

69. As I said, the Church has never believed that infants are

doomed to Hell. I am familiar with the beliefs of St. Augustine.

[havocmom]

38. Tell the fundies: It has already happened. They didn't make the cut

Stand back lest you get splattered with exploding heads.

The whole Rapture thing was invented by a couple of blokes with too much time on their hands back within a couple hundred years. THEY decided THEY knew what God was telling mankind via the Bible (a book oft edited and which no doubt lost much through many translations).

Since those two self proclaimed prophets came up with their version/decoding, many others have declared they know when... SO far, all of them have been wrong. False prophets or guys with an agenda and looking at profit$?

Me, I'll stick with the Mayan calender. Dec 22, 2012, this world (epoch/reality) ends (gives way) to the next... We leave the material world and enter the time of ether. Fine with me. Most of us have too much stuff and not enough closet space anyway. Time to cut back on the material and start exercising our hearts, minds, souls.

Ether. Like the ether-net card in my modem or ether as is POOF, all vaporized? Either way, makes more sense to me than a bunch of control freak fundies bein sucked up outta their underwear and floating up into the sky, where they will eventually run outta light and air.

Missed a couple days of Sunday school, but the ones I went to did mention that innocents, whether they had accepted Jesus as Savior or not, would be allowed into heaven. So, chances are if there is a Savior and heaven, babies and folks who just haven't gotten the memo about Jesus are OK.

Personally, I figure only I can save my soul by the choices made, the way I live my life and treat others. This bit about sinning then getting some sort of O-Kie-dokie, all is forgiven thing is just a license to kill.

Live as good a life as you can. Treat others with respect and thought. Raise your children with care and respect. Walk lightly on the earth. Savor what is sweet. Work to change what is bitter. Let those who can't/won't do any of that worry about some self proclaimed Rapture. If it helps them fill some void in their soul to think uttering a couple of phrases will give them a leg up on others, fine, they can have their delusions.

Life is to be lived. Do it well. Fate will do what it will do.

Have a nice day ;)

[Swamp Rat]

40. It means your baby will have lots of free toys after the x-tian babies get

raptured by their parents.

[bling bling]

66. Awesome! And books, we need books.

Hopefully some of them will leave behind the Berenstein Bears books. Those were always my favorites when I was a kid.

[Swamp Rat]

67. That and "Where the Wild Things Are."

:D

[mainer]

75. Sorry, but the only books they'll leave behind are Bibles

and Tim LeHaye novels.

[Generic Other]

80. You are bad bad bad

Whenever I hear the term "left behind," I remember an article I read years ago about a woman who was leaving a hospital after having lost 250 pounds, as the article stated, "a third of her left behind." The picture of that asymmetrical ass always makes me laugh when I recall the sentence (bad English teacher humor).

[BigMcLargehuge]

41. Scary stories embraced by people with just enough functional intelligence

to keep from immolating themselves with a spoon while eating breakfast cereal.

[yurbud]

51. If God was just, the fetus would hang by the umbilical cord outside

heaven until he or she was old enough to choose to be a believer.

[hashibabba]

54. OK, here's another version of the Bible that talks about the *rapture*

I don't have the time to give you a variety of translations, but this is the Amplified Version,

I Corinthians 15:51-52
Take notice! I tell you a mystery--a secret truth, an even decreed by the hidden purpose or counsel of God. WE SHALL ALL NOT FALL ASLEEP but we shall ALL be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the sound of the last trumpet call. For a trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable--the free and immune from decay--AND WE shall be changed (transformed).

I Thessalonians 4:16-7 For the Lord Himself will descend from the heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shoult of an archangel, and with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise FIRST. THEN, we, the still living who remain , shall simultaneously be caught up along with the ressurected dead in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always--through the eternity of the eternities--we shall be with the Lord.

There are many versions of the Bible and people have tried to do their best to get the true and best interpretation of their particular Bibles. There are parchments from the early church and people go back to them to interpret, not just the King James Version!

[gasperc]

72. Probably Monday or Thursday

Monday's are always a shit sandwich kind of day and Thursday is right between hump day and Friday so it generaly puts you in a fucked mood.

and for Gosh sakes do not pay any of your bills next week, what would be the point??

[MsAnthropy]

82. I better go run up my Visa bill this weekend

:evilgrin:

[spanone]

84. I think you actually have to pay a fee to broker a seat to rapture.

Tickmaster gets a huge chunk, while Clearchannel provides the venue.

[eugeneliberal]

85. The rapture is a myth

perpetrated by dispensationalist John Nelson Darby who solidified the belief in the 1830s and placed it into a larger theological framework.

[fordnut]

88. i always heard

that the bible talked about someone on a roof and two people
will be on it and one will dissapear.thats what I have always
heard.I'm not quoting the bible

[calico1]

89. Rapture smiley:

:rofl:

[graywarrior]

92. Does next week start on Sunday or Monday?

My trash doesn't go out til Thursday so I hope it's on Friday.