Rock on, Vegans!

[oberliner]

Vegan diet reverses diabetes symptoms, study finds

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - People who ate a low-fat vegan diet, cutting out all meat and dairy, lowered their blood sugar more and lost more weight than people on a standard American Diabetes Association diet, researchers said on Thursday.

They lowered their cholesterol more and ended up with better kidney function, according to the report published in Diabetes Care, a journal published by the American Diabetes Association.

Participants said the vegan diet was easier to follow than most because they did not measure portions or count calories. Three of the vegan dieters dropped out of the study, compared to eight on the standard diet.

"I hope this study will rekindle interest in using diet changes first, rather than prescription drugs," Dr. Neal Barnard, president of the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine, which helped conduct the study, told a news conference.


Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060727/hl_nm/diet_dc;_ylt=AhhdSktQ1tJuqwBEwxoEy1Os0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

[sui generis]

1. increased renal function is due to not eating

a couple of pounds of protein at every meal. Talk about punching yourself in the kidneys - or rather, punching a bunch of microscopic holes through your kidneys: 40g protein shakes, 20 ounce steaks, a pile of meat sauce pasta, even beef jerky and other concentrated forms of protein; all that extra protein is filtered and excreted, and it can overwhelm your kidneys when you have a huge meal coming down the pike. Do it often enough and you have cumulative kidney damage.

Also, coincidentally, the best way to keep your pets from developing kidney damage as they age is to feed them smaller portions three or more times a day rather than one big blast of protein in their daily meal.

[sgxnk]

4. as somebody who eats 200Gms of protein a day

i am aware of two things

there are not any peer-reviewed medical studies that show that "excess" protein causes kidney damage

however (and it's a BIG however)

for those WITH kidney conditions, that much protein is VERY bad for you

iow, there is no established causal link.

this makes sense

to make an analogy

similarly, there is no evidence that stationary cycling causes broken legs

however, if you have a broken leg

don't use the stationary cycle


fwiw, i get extensive bloodwork twice a year and all indications are my kidneys are just groovy

[BadgerKid]

53. Agreed.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[ThomCat]

55. My urologist instructed me to cut back on protein to

reduce the frequency of kidney stones I keep getting. He said that excess protein is a major contributor.

I don't know about specific studies, but this guy is supposedly one of the best urologists in NYC, so I think I'll take his word for it.

[sgxnk]

87. absolutely

again, this is again an issue with PRE-existing conditions

if one is prone to kidney stones, then excess protein is bad

like i said, the issue is whether "excess" protein CAUSES these conditions

i dispute that it does, and i have never seen any peer-reviewed research that supports that contention

i HEARTILY agree that GIVEN these conditions, one should monitor one's protein

the kidneys are the body's frontline in the processing of protein

[KurtNYC]

39. There really isn't that much protein in the average american diet

maybe 7 - 10% of total calories. I would think most vegans would want a similar amount of protein in their diets.

I think the biggest difference, and an advantage of a vegan diet over omnivore diet, is very low intake of saturated fat which is causative in the formation of Type 2 diabetes.

That said, I think the sample size (99 people minus those who dropped out) of this study is too small. If they put an equal number in each group, then only 33 were on the vegan diet.

[sgxnk]

88. yes

and there is always tradeoffs

for example, low fat diets (see: ornish type diets) have also been shown to SIGNIFICANTLY lower endogenous testosterone levels, among other problems

that's not good

most of my fats are unsaturated. but i do make a conscious choice to get SOME saturated fat in my diet.

generally speaking, our diets tend to have MORE saturated fat than necessary.

[LeftyMom]

2. k&r

[Gormy Cuss]

3. Only a low sugar, low fat vegan diet had this effect.

The golden rule of eating a well balanced diet is still important.
It is a very good result and going vegan should be added to the toolbox for treating Type II diabetes.

[pitohui]

38. there's nothing you can eat on such a diet

i invite you get your own glucose meter and test strips and see for yourself

a vegan can ONLY eat fungi, fruit, vegetables, and grain -- NO eggs, No dairy, it isn't merely removing meat, fish, and poultry but ALL animal products

now get out your test meter and try this supposed low fat diet

fruits turn out to be right out, eating more than 1/2 a piece of small fruit a day screws up my husband's readings

many people w. diabetes and metabolic syndrome also have a problem w. many vegetables and starches

potatoes, corn, more than a really tiny measured amount of beans, the list goes on!

my husband even reacts poorly to as little as 1/2 cup of brown rice, the staple of the vegan diet

he would die of hunger -- and it wouldn't take him 22 weeks either -- on a vegan diet because there is almost nothing he can eat that has enough calories to sustain life

this study is bogus


what got my husband's readings back into normal range is a low carb diet, which by necessity to stay alive means lots of meat and dairy to provide sufficient calories

i urge EVERYONE to try it for themselves, get the readings for yourself, and you'll see

you'll quickly find out for yourself that this article is horseshit

we were on a low fat, almost no sugar diet for 20 years, this diet almost killed my husband, since getting the wake-up call of metabolic syndrome and going high fat/low carb he has lost 40 pounds and again has normal readings, it's amazing the change

we are being brainwashed to accept a low quality diet as somehow "healthy" but humans have known for thousands of years that those who eat only grain do not fare very well heatlh-wise compared to those who can afford to eat plenty of protein

[flvegan]

49. I guess science and reality are total losses

considering your one "test subject" (your husband) has dietary issues.

You have no clue about protein, either, nor the difference between a low v. high quality diet. Well, outside of your husband's readings.

[LeftyMom]

50. Brown rice is a staple of the vegan diet?

Gee, I'm glad an omnivore cleared that up for me. I guess I've been being vegan incorrectly for years now, since I don't really care for it. :eyes:

For that matter, what makes you think we "eat only grain" or don't get plenty of protein? Mine isn't a low quality diet, the typical american who eats factory farmed flesh, gmo grains and flavorless, poisoned veggies is certainly not eating half so well and thier health outcomes reflect that. Though you have a financial stake in keeping that person on thier shitty but profitable diet, so I don't expect you to admit it.

[Triana]

71. I rarely eat brown rice either...

(almost vegan person here)...I like brown rice but it certainly isn't a 'staple'. There are so many other grains - Quinoa for example...that eating a lot of brown rice isn't necessary - not that it's bad either - but there are other grains besides that.

[Gormy Cuss]

51. With due respect, that it wouldn't work for your husband doesn't make it

horseshit. Humans aren't one size-fits-all. It reports that subjects in this study did somewhat better on a low-sugar, low-fat vegan diet than those who were on a traditional Amer. Diabetes Assoc diet plan. All that means is that it for some diabetics it appears helpful, just like the ADA diet. For vegetarians or quasi-vegs with Type II it may offer a way to avoid eating fish and meat in order to be on a diabetic-friendly diet. Neither diet approach was held out as solving Type II diabetes for all patients.

I appreciate your cautions based on your own family experience, but if this study was done using rigorous methods it is worth acceptance as a possible tool. I can't access the journal where it was published until Monday so I can't tell what sort of controls were use and whether it was peer reviewed. Until then, it's just an intriguing outcome worth consideration in planning diabetes management -- consideration, not a guaranteed solution.

[Eric J in MN]

58. Does he have Type I or Type II diabetes?

NT

[porphyrian]

5. One of the best shakes I ever had was from a vegan restaurant...

I can do without being told what I should eat, however, and that immediately turns me off on them. Really, that applies to anyone telling me what to do, but some of the most obnoxious encounters I've had were with vegans and proselytizing Christians (though not at the same time).

[sgxnk]

6. if meat is murder

if meat is murder, are eggs rape?

[calico1]

7. Vegans don't eat eggs. n/t

[sgxnk]

11. no kidding

um... duh

[calico1]

13. No need to be snarky.

Your post seemed to imply that they did est eggs. You could have just cleared that up without the smartass reply.

[sgxnk]

15. i don't see

i don't see how it implied that

of course vegans don't eat eggs

[calico1]

18. Well, not every one knows that believe it or not.

I know a number of people who think "vegetarian" and "vegan" are just two words that describe the same thing. Last year at our company Christmas party a girl at the office invited a friend. On the reply form it had a box to check if you needed a special meal. She checked it and wrote "vegan meal." When dinner was brought out they brought the friend a plate of vegetables piled high with cheese! Another time I recall my sister in law planning a cookout. I reminded her that one of the guests was a vegan, to which she replied "no problem, I have ziti and cheese dish." A lot of people don't understand that there is a difference.

[LeftyMom]

20. I get that all the time

When people aren't trying to feed me chicken or fish. :eyes:

[sgxnk]

21. fair enough

i realize there is a lot of misunderstanding.

i am just very aware, since i was a vegetarian (NOT A VEGAN) for about a year

i found it was NOT for me

i have respect for vegans and vegetarians who do it for moral reasons

on the health reasons aspect, i find many are sorely misinformed into believing a lot of PETA and PCRM inspired myths about the alleged problems with meat/milk that are not science based

but that's another thread :)

veganism (imo) would be very difficult to maintain. i can respect that discipline

vegetarianism was quite easy. it just wasn't for me

[Cha]

60. It's not hard when it

makes one feel better as is the case with me. Thankfully, there's still a lot to eat out there:)

[calico1]

23. I never understood why some people think

that people who don't eat beef but eat chicken and fish are vegetarian, or why some people that eat this way think THEY are vegetarian.:shrug:

I am neither but if you came to my house I would know what to feed you. We had a very good friend who was vegan and we used to do a lot of cookouts in the summer. I even had a separate grill that I used for him and for another friend I have that has celiac disease.:)

[sgxnk]

25. i cannot tell you

how many times i have heard from people "i'm a vegetarian. i only eat chicken and fish" or some such hogwash

fwiw, i am a (sometimes) competitive strength athlete, and would never even consider veganism

vegetarianism would be feasible but it aint for me

i get about 200gm of protein a day

i also really like randy couture's diet, which is low acid and uses mostly green vegetables and fish

very kewl

[girl gone mad]

34. I eat only a few types of fish..

and I call myself a vegetarian. I find that it is just a lot easier than explaining to people that I won't eat any factory farmed animals or byproducts from factory farmed animals and that I avoid seafood which is over-fished or caught using environmentally unfriendly methods. Most people's eyes glaze over as soon as I start talking about that stuff, anyways, so I'll just stick with 'I'm a vegetarian' for now.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

83. Nope, you're not a vegetarian and it's wrong to call yourself one.

You're a pescarian, which is what I am. Calling yourself a vegetarian just makes it harder for the real vegetarians out there.

[sgxnk]

86. i gotta agree

diminishing the meaning of words, by incorporating ever broadening compromises as to their meanings, is a bad thing

if you eat animal flesh, you aint a vegetarian

that much is pretty clear

[calico1]

92. I certainly think its one of the reasons why

many non vegetarian/vegans think that "vegetarian" can mean you eat chicken and/or fish. And it does make it hard for those practicing that lifestyle. I know from vegetarian and vegan people I know who go to social events and get offered chicken or fish or things with cheese or eggs because its "okay" for them. Its kind of what I get when I tell people I can't eat bread and they say "but its whole wheat!" Like that would make a difference. A lot of people are uneducated about a lot of different dietary lifestyles. It serves no good purpose to play into that confusion because it doesn't help anyone who has to deal with it day to day, especially the people that have to adhere for health reasons.

[diamidue]

95. I'm like you

We live near the ocean and my husband catches fresh Pacific salmon. I'll eat canned Alaska sardines, & eggs and I have found that taking fish oil is a Godsend.

That is pretty much my "meat" diet. I identify with the vegetarians as veggies forms the bulk of my diet along with brown rice & beans, lentils, etc. No dairy. No sugar.

I love eating this way. Some people evidently do very well as vegans, but my body doesn't respond well to it.

[flvegan]

52. Why would you never

consider veganism as a "competitive strength athlete" (I'm assuming that's powerlifting or something)? Just curious, as I'm vegan and (some would consider) athletic.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

62. If you want to see a strong vegan, go talk to flvegan.

He manages it.

[sgxnk]

89. how strong is he?

what is his max clean and jerk?

how about the squat ?

:)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

94. Why don't you ask him?

[LeftyMom]

99. Can we get him to post pics too?

That's always fun.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

103. Well, I'm sure if you ask him for pics, you'll get them.

[flvegan]

102. Hmmm...

I'm not a powerlifter, so I don't do the clean and jerk. I'm more into the leg press sled than squats. Ask me another.

[susanna]

68. I have a cookbook on my shelf...

(I'm a huge food fan) called "Demi-Veg" or some such. 90% of the recipes are for those who style themselves as fish/chicken eating veggie folks.

For the record, as an earlier poster mentioned: I absolutely know the difference between vegetarian and vegan and do my best, as a cook, to oblige. :-)

[LeftyMom]

27. That's nice of you to do

My own family can't be bothered even with things that could be veganized easily, so I either have to bring my own food to family stuff or eat before I go. :( That's the only time that being vegan is really inconvenient or annoying though.

[porphyrian]

9. Heh, I guess that depends on when you gather the egg...

...and I'm not sure we have a crime on the books that addresses the full implications of that.

[calico1]

12. That's very interesting. I was under the impression that vegan

is the strictest form of vegetarianism in that they consume no animal products or by products at all.

In any event, I would have a hard time being vegan. Vegetarian maybe but not vegan. I can't eat much bread because I don't digest it well at all. I hate soy and have read some articles that question its safety so consuming soy products makes me wary. I sure would be skinny though if I had almost nothing to chose from to eat! :-)

[sgxnk]

16. vegans don't eat eggs

i never implied they do

[porphyrian]

29. Sorry, I accidentally omitted part of my post.

It should've read, "whether you gather the egg internally or externally." I have a bad habit of going too fast and not proofreading.

[porphyrian]

31. It's all open to interpretation unless you're talking to another...

...vegan and trying to determine who's more vegan. Strictly, they are supposed to use no animal anything at all. That includes processed sugar, for example, because some animal part (bone?) is used in the process. Anyway, I've met vegans who would eat Cheetos because they were stolen and the company that made them didn't benefit from them directly. Some vegans are really nice, and you wouldn't know they were vegans at all unless you asked or ate with them.

[LeftyMom]

35. Some cane sugar is bleached with bone char

No beet sugar is. So processed sugars of unspecified origin would not be okay, as they may be animal products, but brands known not to use bone char are okay, as are any beet sugars and most any cane sugar that isn't white (brown sugar is sometimes white sugar with the molasses added back, so it's not always okay either, but things like turbinado and sucanat are fine.)

The cheeto people are freegans. Some freegans eat exclusively vegan, some will eat strict vegetarian with thier own money but ovo lacto or omni food when it's scavenged. Some aren't veg at all. I dislike the name, because conflating it with veganism makes it difficult for real vegans and confuses others about what veganism is all about.

[porphyrian]

37. Cool, thanks for clearing that up. - n/t

[LeftyMom]

17. No, eggs are chicken menstruation

Mmmmm, scrambled bird periods... :puke:

[sgxnk]

22. cue"

an "eat the placenta" thread

maybe not...

:l

[midnight]

32. Never thought about it that way.

[KurtNYC]

43. No - chickens are not mammals

Only great apes and humans have true menstruation. A chicken does not have a uterus; they are oviparus.

[LeftyMom]

45. But it's analogous

The routine expulsion of unneeded reproductive tissue sounds a whole lot like a period to me.

[NuttyFluffers]

81. like fruit sorta = plant ovaries?

:D
mmm, fleshy ovaries... just don't eat the ova for most fruits. could crack your teeth or get sick.

[Beaverhausen]

19. Do you have anything relevant to say about the topic of this thread?

or are you just here to bash vegans?

[sgxnk]

24. who is bashing vegans?

who is bashing vegans?

i have stated elsewhere i have great respect for the discipline of veganism and those who do it for moral reasons

on a HEALTH basis, i think many of them are misinformed by PCRM and PETA shills but that's another topic

but i think on a moral basis, it is laudable

frankly, i lurv meat

but that's me

[Beaverhausen]

26. again, nothing relevant to the thread or the article mentioned

and I guess "if meat is murder, are eggs rape?" was just a little joke?

well ha ha ha

[sgxnk]

28. well, first of all- and very relevant

it's not my joke

iow, it didn't originate with me

second of all, i made a very relevant post about the fact that there is immense evidence that hi protein diets do NOT damage kidneys, iow i have not seen ONE peerreviewed study that comes to that conclusion

otoh, it is pretty darn clear that high protein diets CAN harm an individual who has a preexisting kidney condition. again, supported by dozens of peer reviewed studies

that is a strongly supported scientific theory, and is very relevant

also, there is a stereotype that vegans, like some other groups i might mention are humourless bores

you are doing little to dissuade that viewpoint

iow, lighten up francis!

[Beaverhausen]

30. lighten up?

I'm guessing you haven't been around DU long enough to witness the endless vegetarian and vegan bashing that goes on here. There was a nasty incident just the other day when this article was first posted. So maybe I am a bit touchy today. sorry.

But that egg joke was baiting, you have to agree.

and it's usually a good idea to post links to articles or studies if you are going to assert that a linked study is wrong. Just a suggestion.

[sgxnk]

33. i have not

witnessed the vegan bashing, that is correct - as a newbie

i don't agree that the egg joke was baiting. i think it's funny line i read once.

if you are honestly interested in links, i can post dozens that SUPPORT the article's contention that high protein diets are dangerous IF you have a preexisting kidney condition

but i can't post a link to prove a negative. iow, i am saying there are NO peer reviewed studies (i am aware of, and i read these studies a lot) that show that high protein CAUSES kidney damage

that's the distinction

like i said. i eat 2-4X the amount of protein that most people do. so i am very interested in this subject, i get blood tested twice a year, and it is not just an interesting aside to me

i hope you realize that "lighten up francis" is also a "line" that is not of my origination, but is meant sarcastically, and in good fun

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftyMom]

42. Wussy?

For the last fucking time: Veganism is not an eating disorder.

Stop reading your own issues into healthy people, it's annoying.

[Beaverhausen]

46. you mentioned the circular firing squad in another thread

and now you are doing it yourself.

No one is telling anyone here not to eat meat.

If you want to call me wussy because I don't fine. I just don't want to end up with colon cancer like my mother and my grandparents. Or diabetes like my uncle...

[ThomCat]

59. Funny, as a person with a disability my health is heavily

monitored. I am in doctor's offices sometimes several times per month for test, followups, etc. All of my doctors know I'm a vegan and approve. My routine tests include periodic bloodwork. If there was a problem my doctors would know about it.

So, no, being a vegan is not an eating disorder and it isn't unhealthy.

I'm so glad that you actually know what you're talking about. :eyes:

[sgxnk]

90. yes

i have great respect for veganism as a moral choice

even if i think it's a little silly. it's well intentioned, and they don't hurt anybody (except themselves sometimes)

i have a problem with some parents who try to foist niche cult diets on their CHILDREN

i have a problem with parents who feed their kids a steady diet of sugar and chemicals, as well i might add

[LeftyMom]

98. Are you saying that you have a problem with parents raising vegan kids?

:wtf:

[flvegan]

48. I fail to see your protein link to this article

It suggests cutting all animal products (vegan) and the diet was lower in added fat and sugar. I don't see the protein link you allude to a couple times in this thread.

[flvegan]

8. Good article.

k&r

[leftofthedial]

10. the only group that lost more weight than vegans

were the people who ate no food at all

[sgxnk]

14. breatharians

well, you could always be a "breatharian"

talk to dick gregory

[Sapere aude]

36. OK, we have another chance to bash vegans and vegetarians !

Eating red meat is patriotic! Beef is what you want!

Only kidding. I'm a vegetarian and I like these kind of posts.

[sgxnk]

40. to paraphrase chris rock

it's not the red meat u need to avoid; it's the green meat

[Triana]

73. I always get "*gasp!* Well, WHAT do you EAT?!"

Sheeeesh. I find plenty to eat (too much actually) without meat, fish, refined sugar, or much dairy at all. I do get tired of the snarky comments on and offline. People have different tastes and different diets. Vegetarians/vegans are often made to feel that they're 'freaks' because their preferences (or dietary health requirements) don't fit the 'mainstream' or the status quo.

In the converse, I also TRY NOT to lecture or criticize meat-eaters' dietary choices. It's their choice and some people get run down and tired if they don't eat some meat - their bodies seem to need it and that's OK with me. To each his/her own. I just don't see why meat-eaters gotta rag on vegetarians/vegans or why vegetarians/vegans gotta rag on meat-eaters. Can't everyone just accept that people eat differently and it's a personal choice or sometimes a health necessity or both?

Many studies do show that a vegetarian/vegan diet is healthier and/or can help solve health problems and that's great. I think omnivores get somehow offended by it, though 'cause they feel all the veg people will beat them over the head with it.

"Can't we all just get along?"

;)

[calico1]

85. I agree with something you pointed out..

In the converse, I also TRY NOT to lecture or criticize meat-eaters' dietary choices. It's their choice and some people get run down and tired if they don't eat some meat - their bodies seem to need it and that's OK with me. To each his/her own. I just don't see why meat-eaters gotta rag on vegetarians/vegans or why vegetarians/vegans gotta rag on meat-eaters. Can't everyone just accept that people eat differently and it's a personal choice or sometimes a health necessity or both?


I think that different people thrive on different nutrients. One-size-fits all diets just don't work for everyone. I for example can't eat much bread or anything bready. Or most cereals. Just doesn't agree with me. Yet most nutritionists push bread and cereal eating as part of a healthy diet. Other people cannot tolerate dairy but we are told to drink 3-4 glasses of milk a day. And so on. I think the reason why many people feel lousy and are unhealthy is because they eat and drink things that don't agree with their individual makeup and needs. I also agree it's stupid to be making smart ass remarks about what people eat or don't eat. It's stupid.

[sgxnk]

91. many studies

many studies that are sponsored by PCRM , PETA and other vegan shill groups are about as suspect as the many studies that are sponsored by tobacco companies. when science meets ideology - science tends to lose

fwiw, there are basically no reliable sources of, for example, b12 in the vegan diet, WITHOUT fortified foods. which shows, imo, a fundamental unnaturalness with a vegan diet, that one has to supplement to get a BASIC necessity

a vegan diet CAN be healthy. so can a vegetarian diet, OR a omnivorous diet.

but given a fair amount of nutrition knowledge, i can design a very superior diet (for a normal healthy person) given a choice of meats, dairy, vegetables, etc. than being limited to non-animal sources

many superfoods (fish oil, eggs, etc.) are not available in a vegan diet.

also, as a strength athlete, i have never seen any level of high success among vegan athletes.

i don't think there are ANY at the elite levels, although i am open to counterexamples

[BrklynLiberal]

100. Kenneth G. Williams

http://www.undercovertv.org/MeetTheHost.php
Kenneth G. Williams made sports history at the 2004 Natural Olympia in Las Vegas – the most prestigious natural bodybuilding competition in the world – by finishing third out of more than 200 competitors from 37 nations and becoming America’s first vegan bodybuilding champion. He has also competed and placed well in a number of important bodybuilding events. In 2004 alone, he placed second in his class at the Silver & Black Muscle Classic (sponsored by the Oakland Raiders), the Team USA contest, and the World Natural Bodybuilding Championships.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler30.htm

http://www.europeanvegetarian.org/evu/english/news/news002/meatless_muscle.html

http://veganmomma.com/blog/?p=161

http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2000jan/2000janjaneblack.htm

http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/opening.htm

http://veggie.org/veggie/famous.veg.athletes.shtml

[Triana]

105. WOW - great info! - and regarding fish oils and B12 and vegans...

...the omega 3, 6 and 9 (fatty acids) that are found in certain fish and fish oils can ALSO be gotten from flax and flaxseed, black currant seed, and pumpkin seed -- and red star nutritional yeast is an EXCELLENT vegan source of B12 (the inactive type that is most easily absorbed by the body) -- so, no -- meat and dairy are not necessary to get these nutrients. A vegan can get them without consuming meat or dairy. They do it all the time.

[CuteNFuzzy]

44. Go Vegan!

:)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. If I Ever Get Diabetes Maybe I'll Consider It. Till Then, Gimme Steak!!!!

Gimme a big juicy Outback steak or a Burger King triple cheeseburger please. :)

[Odin2005]

54. This study is BOGUS.

As Pitohui said, diabetics would STARVE on a vegan diet.


I don't get vegitarianism, we evolved to get a good chunk of our daily calories from animal protein. The start of the increase in brain size 2.4 million years ago seems to have been partially because the drying out of Africa at the start of the Ice Age forced our ancestors to live by scavenging, which eventually became hunting when H. erectus evolved 2 million years ago. When people moved into areas with cold winters you either hunted well or you starved.

[Eric J in MN]

56. People with Type 2 Diabetes can eat

..anything which people without it can, though they may want to shift the portions.

[calico1]

63. A cousin of mine has Type II Diabetes.

He was complaining to us that his dr. advised him to restrict fruit and starchy carbohydrates like rice and potatoes. He likes orange juice but his dr. told him no more than 1 4 oz. glass a day. And with rice or potatoes, 1/2 cup servings as a portion size eaten with protein. My cousin was bummed out because he likes his carbs and was having a hard time getting used to eating veggies, salads and restricting the starch and sugar.

[Sapere aude]

57. Not true at all. East of Bakersfield, CA near Tehachapi there lived a

band of Native Americans who's diet consisted of mostly plants and acorns. They hunted once a year to collect rabbit pelts to make winter coats. They used 250 different plants for medicine, food, smoking, tools, and utensils to name a few. They lived there 3000 years before White settlers moved them to Tejon Ranch in 1850 when gold was discovered there.

All peoples of the earth do not eat or act alike.

[Spider Jerusalem]

66. But compared to almost *every other* group of humans...

these Native Americans you're talking about are an anomaly. The other Native American tribes of the American landmass obtained a good deal of their caloric intake from hunting and fishing (for some of them, in conjunction with, but NOT exclusive of, farming and growing maize, squash, etc).

And what you're saying doesn't seem to be strictly true, in any case; THIS indicates that the native tribes of the San Joaquin valley obtained some part of their diet through hunting and fishing (and looking further reveals that they also ate worms and insects).

[flvegan]

61. Let me know

when pitohui gets her degree that lends validity to that statement. Since a poster on DU said something, then an entire study is bogus. Grand thinking.

We didn't evolve as you stated. Where we've evolved to today is to get our nutrition from various sources, protein included. Eating animal protein, for most, is a choice, not a need.

[ThomCat]

64. Nobody would starve on a vegan diet.

That's just nonsense.

[Scout]

65. no offense...

but I could not stand to eat a vegan diet.

[MaggieSwanson]

67. K&R

Great article. My daughter and I get along quite nicely with the variety that a vegan diet affords, and it's nice to see some recognition of the health benefits that can be linked directly to a change in diet.

[and-justice-for-all]

69. Hurray for me!!

I mostly have an issue with the cruelty involved with meat, it sets me ablaze when I see it and it totally turned me off from meat.

[Triana]

70. Same here - besides I don't like the taste - ick! (n/t)

[LeftyMom]

72. The cruelty issue is why I went vegan

Feeling healthier was just (mushroom) gravy.

[Triana]

74. Mmmm....mushrooms...grilled portobello sammich..

...with roasted red peppers -n- soy cheese. Now I'm hungry!!

[LeftyMom]

76. I was thinking criminis, garlic and fresh roma tomatoes on homemade pizza

Maybe tomorrow I'll make that for dinner.

[Triana]

77. Can I come to your house for dinner?? :)

Just kidding. That sounds yummy!

[LeftyMom]

78. DU veg meetup at LM's house

:woohoo:

[Bluebear]

75. I LOVE Las Vegas!

:)

[oberliner]

101. that made me chuckle

Hey, do you think it would help out if I posted a statement from Ned Lamont or Russ Feingold on this topic? :)

[DemsRBetterLovers]

79. Im still eating meat

and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it. USA!

[yewberry]

80. No one's trying to stop you

and feel free to click the 'x' if you're not interested in the discussion. USA!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

82. That's nice, dear.

Um...USA!

[RebelOne]

84. It's your business if you want to clog your arteries.

[sgxnk]

93. my arteries

are squeaky clean

and i eat lots of meat
hth

:)

[calico1]

97. My arteries are good too!

And my cholesterol levels are excellent! I eat lean protein and a lot of it is fish. I love salmon and get wild salmon, not farmed.

[BrklynLiberal]

96. kick

[greguganus]

104. You can have my chicken wing...

...when you can pry it from my dead greasy fingers! USA! USA! USA! :rofl:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

106. Why do you end your posts with "USA!"