what is Israel's objective in Lebanon?

[leftofthedial]

has it been stated?

[everythingsxen]

1. Stopping Hezbollah from being able to shoot rockets at them? (NT)

[leftofthedial]

3. the Israelis attacked in Lebanon prior to Hezbollah launching rockets

what was their objective?

[everythingsxen]

11. They did?

When was that?

[leftofthedial]

36. hundreds of times

including a full-scale invasion and occupation in 1978.

You've heard of this, haven't you?

Not all governments are as reactionary as ours. Israel's strategy in the region is longer term than July of 2006.

Also, I've read and heard conflicting reports of the circumstances of the capture of the two Israeli soldiers. Was it during a Hezbollah raid into Israel, or was it during an Israeli raid into Lebanon?

So much organized disinformation accompanies every action by the Israelis that the truth can be hard to find in all the noise.

[zonkers]

12. Are you sure???

[smacky44]

25. Hizbollah was formed in response to Israeli occupation of Lebanon.

Without that occupation and the atrocities that followed there would be no Hizbollah just as there would be no Hamas had Israel not done what it did in Gaza and other Palestinian territories. We will be reaping the whirlwind for this for a long time.

[Yupster]

47. I'd say getting Lebanon's government to ask for the world's help

in getting Hezbullah's army out of its country.

Doesn't look like it's going to work.

Even if Lebanon asks, what country would be crazy enough to police it?

[Extend a Hand]

2. US Checking Possibility of Pumping Oil from Northern Iraq to Haifa

This is what I think it is:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0825-03.htm

[leftofthedial]

4. that is probably the objective

the PNAC and Israel seem to operate in concert.

There also is apparently water at stake.

[joemurphy]

5. Thanks for your post! Interesting! n/t

[cali]

6. What is this,

about the hundredth thread on Israel's movtives for attacking Lebanon, in the past few days? We can't know but by all means bring on more speculation about their diabolical motivations. You know, after awhile, particularly when there's no new information, threads like this are simply pointless except for stirring up shit.

[RethugAssKicker]

8. So, Let him stir up shit..........if he wants

[leftofthedial]

9. do you think Israel's actions are justified?

if so, how is that possible if you don't know what their objectives are?

[cali]

16. Nope.

And I'm surprised you haven't seen the dozens of posts and several threads where I've harshly condemned Israel's terrible adventure in Lebanon. For the umpteenth time, nothing justifies it. But that wasn't the point of my post to your thread. I'm weary of people simple trying on the basest motives they can. Water, oil, genocide, etc.

[scarletwoman]

18. Lots of us impugn base motives to OUR government all the time.

In fact, I think one can pretty much impugn base motives for one thing or another to the Ruling Powers of probably every country on the planet. I don't see why ANY country ought to be considered an exception.

sw

[cali]

21. Yep,

and I think at least half of those are nutty.

[scarletwoman]

22. Nutty? You mean like invading Iraq because of WMD? (nt)

[cali]

23. Nah,

like LIHOP MIPHOP.

[leftofthedial]

30. oh, you prefer the official conspiracy theory

and its farfetched insonsistencies, outright lies, evidence destruction, lack of any significant investigation . . .

I see.

Nutty.

[cali]

52. No. I prefer to use critical thinking.

Don't tell me, you think "Loose Change" tells the real story of 9/11. Excuse me while I snicker.

[leftofthedial]

55. you think LIHOP is "nutty"

why?

[leftofthedial]

26. sick of it or no, Israel's motives and timing are highly suspicious

don't you think?

[scarletwoman]

15. Of course there are things we can't know for sure, but we CAN educate

ourselves to take note of the various strands of Deep Politics that are at work in the policy choices we see being made.

Surely you have noticed by now -- after all these painful years of bushco lies and PNAC machinations -- that what we are fed as the "official story" by the Powers That Be generally bears only glancing relationship to truth and reality.

sw

[scarletwoman]

7. Maybe access to the Litani river drainage for more water to Israel?

I think we all ought to stop kidding ourselves that the wars in the Middle East are anything BUT resource wars. The various ideologies at play merely make it easier and more convenient for the Ruling Class to cover the true nature of their crimes while they rouse the rabble.

sw

[Mandate My Ass]

32. Yes!!! That's the ticket

The "security fence" they're building in the West Bank conveniently puts all the aquifers and fresh water wells on the Israeli side as weell as gobbling up the fertile farmland of the Palestinians.

[Rex]

10. To destroy Hezbollah as a military organization.

nt

[leftofthedial]

14. thank you.

[leftofthedial]

27. how does that explain attacks on Lebanese, non-Hezbollah targets

(Which seem to be a major portion of the Israeli attacks)?

[rockymountaindem]

35. Because they are all somehow linked to Hezbollah

Such as the infrastructure, which Hezbollah uses to get more arms from Syria and elsewhere, the TV stations they use to broadcast messages and propaganda to their members, etc.

[leftofthedial]

37. so because Hezbollah can use the Internet

Israel is justified in destroying the world's communications system?

And because Hezbollah has a presence in Syria, Israel is justified in destroying Syria?

Your argument is a restatement of the Bush doctrine of preemption, which is fascist imperialism.

[Mandate My Ass]

38. oh like Saddam was linked to Osama

and al Queda? Awful murky "links" there. Let's destroy the infrastructure that allows quality of life for millions of people because a few bad guys might use it too. Nice.

[rockymountaindem]

43. Read any book on military strategy in the modern era

One of the first steps an army should take in war (if it has the capability to do so) is to destroy the enemy's capability to move into and out of the battlefield. This means that they cannot reinforce and resupply, nor can their frontline troops withdraw or evacuate their wounded. This puts a major strain on the enemy's frontline, allowing the attackers to surround and destroy the enemy force. That's why Israel bombed bridges, gas stations, roadways, and the airport. This keeps Hezbollah divided, leaving its forces in the south isolated from its bases of resupply and reinforcement further north. At least, that's the idea in theory.

Attacking TV stations etc is a means of undermining the command and control system of the enemy. This makes it harder to coordinate operations, leaving small units strung out on the line and easier prey for the organized forces of the attacker.

We can argue whether or not this war was necessary, but as far as the strategy of the actual war goes, we could expect to see this from any country once it is engaged in war.

[leftofthedial]

44. this isn't a war between Lebanon and Israel

this is not at all the same thing as Clausewitzian total war

there is no "front line"

in fact, Hezbollah barely qualifies as a military force

I know WHY they choose such targets, but how do they justify it legally?

We now live in a world in which one country, without a declaration of war, can bomb any target in any other country simply because they do not like some person or group in that country

Civilization is over.

[rockymountaindem]

46. Well, I don't know what to say

to someone who says "civilization is over" because of a little flare up somewhere thousands of miles away.

This is a war between Hezbollah and Israel playing out in Lebanon. It doesn't matter who holds the deed to the bridges, the roads and airport. The fact is that if Hezbollah is using them, Israel is going to bomb them. That's just the way it goes.

[leftofthedial]

49. US preemptive invasion and occupation of Iraq

and now posters on liberal sites use preemption as a justification for a preemptive invasion by the largest military power in the middle east. Civilization is over. Any country with an airplane, an artillery piece or a rocket is now permitted to bomb any target it chooses, simply by claiming that their national security might be threatened because someone they define as bad for whatever their parochial reasons might possibly use it to threaten them. This is the bush doctrine and now apparently the Israeli doctrine as well. This means every nation on earth is in a constant perpetual state of total war.

and I ask again, if agents of Hezbollah, on a critical mission--say, gathering financing for purchasing weapons, landed at DIA and drove a rented car down I-25 to Colorado Springs, would Israel be justified in rocketing DIA, large swaths of Denver neighborhoods, I-25, Colorado Springs and any and all points in between into rubble?

I understand how military operations are conducted and how targets are selected and prioritized. This is a political question, not a military science question.

[Yupster]

48. I think those are to get the Lebanese

to say they want Hezbullah disarmed.

[Rex]

56. Because Hezbollah holds 3 seats in the Lebanese Parliament

and if therefore part of the Lebanese government, no two ways about it. This is a war between Lebanon and Israel, unless someone wants to say Hezbollah has nothing to do with Lebanon or its political leaders.

I'm shocked at the massive attack by Israel and don't approve of it anymore than I approve of 100s of rockets being fired into Israel. Now we all know no one gives a shit about who approves of what, but there it is.

[silverlib]

13. I back post #7 - water

this could, based on the answers, make an interesting poll.

[Just Me]

17. Control, power, rule.

What lies behind any human action against a weaker human? Simple stuff, really.

[w4rma]

19. Destroy the infrastructure of one of the only other democratic nations in

the middle east. Take land, resources. Try to get the U.S. suckered into a war with Iran and/or Syria. I don't think it has one darn thing to do with "stopping rockets".

[leftofthedial]

28. Imperialistic aims?

dare we say the word "Zionism," or will that get the thread locked?

[laura888]

40. you can claim "zionism"

but the reality is imperialism.

[leftofthedial]

42. I guess "zionism" has become imprecise

through decades of careless use

Israeli imperialism then

I believe Israel has the right to defend itself legally and militarily against attacks and crimes

But this response has been so grotesquely excessive, provocative and seemingly calculated, that simple self-defense is not an adequate justification

[laura888]

39. Bingo n/t

[Swamp Rat]

50. Part of the PNAC plan?

[leftofthedial]

54. aren't several key PNACers in the employ of various pro-Israel

organizations?

[Odin2005]

20. The governing coalition is trying to boost it's popularity, nothing more.

The approval ratings for the Olmert government had gone through the roof.

[leftofthedial]

41. this speaks very ill of the Israeli people

IMHO

[dbt]

24. Bigger dividends for shareholders of General Electric.

How did you miss that when it was all over the news?

:evilgrin:
dbt
Remember New Orleans

[Beelzebud]

29. Destabilize the region to usher in war with U.S. and Iran.

All in the hopes of finally getting a shot at the Battle of Armageddon.

I'm sure it's not that exactly, but something tells me I'm not too far off...

[shadowknows69]

31. Ding ding ding!!!

We have a winner. Humanity is the loser.

[leftofthedial]

33. why would the Israelis want to trigger christian armageddon though?

I think the grotesque "overkill" (pun intended) of the Israeli response is the result of RW extremism in the Israeli military and government. That means Zionism.

[Posteritatis]

51. Well, clearly Israelis are all closet Christians. (n/t)

[leftofthedial]

53. fundie christians

to boot

[WindRavenX]

34. create the terrorists of tommorrow by targeting civilians?

Coz that's what's gonna happen.

[leftofthedial]

45. they aren't as stupid as the bush cabal

but they may be even more cynical