Lebanon to Israel: Return Shebaa Farms -- interview with P.M. Siniora

[scarletwoman]

Lebanon to Israel: Return Shebaa Farms

By Cilina Nasser in Beirut

Saturday 29 July 2006, 22:46 Makka Time, 19:46 GMT

Siniora: Re-taking the Shebaa Farms would be a victory for all Lebanese

Lebanon's Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has said that if Israel wants secure borders it must withdraw from the disputed Shebaa Farms area that it has occupied since 1967.

<snip>

In an interview with Aljazeera.net late on Friday, Siniora said his government cannot force Hezbollah to disarm as long as Israel continues to occupy the Shebaa Farms.

<snip>

Siniora then placed the ball in the Israeli court: “If Israel does not want to withdraw from Shebaa, it means it does not want to establish stability in the region. Who is really causing the violence here? It’s the warring party insisting on aggression by keeping other people’s lands.”

(more at link)

[Behind the Aegis]

1. It is NOT their land!

[scarletwoman]

2. Well, the Lebanese government apparently disagrees.

I know that the U.N. considers it Syria's land, in which case it is up to Lebanon and Syria to reach an agreement over it.

In either case, it's NOT Israel's land.

sw

[Behind the Aegis]

3. Then they can take it up with the UN!

They have no dog in that hunt!

[scarletwoman]

12. It HAS been taken to the UN. SC res. 1559

As I just said in my post above, the UN said it belongs to Syria. At least read before you react.

Here's a little history:

http://www.ain-al-yaqeen.com/issues/20060428/feat9en.htm

April 28, 2006

<snip>

Lebanese Premier Fouad Siniora attended a UN Security Council meeting, which was supposed to be held on 26 April, to discuss Terje Roed-Larsen's report on the implementation of resolution 1559. Besides Siniora were both Foreign Minister Fawzi Saloukh, and Justice Minister Charles Rizk.

Addressing the UN Security Council Siniora spoke of the importance of what the Lebanese national dialogue had achieved so far, which involved the Lebanese-Syrian relations, the issue of occupied Shebaa Farms, and the importance of liberating it and demarcating its borders.

<snip>

UN envoy Terje Roed-Larsen urged the two neighbors to agree on demarcating the border in the area, a small mountainous territory at the convergence of the Lebanese-Syrian-Israeli borders.

Israel captured the area from Syria in the 1967 Middle East war, and it is now claimed by Lebanon with Damascus' consent. (my emphasis)

sw

[Behind the Aegis]

17. If they are unhappy, then they need to readdress the UN...

...until then, it IS NOT Lebanese property and is nothing more than a red herring!

[scarletwoman]

23. Siniora brought it up to the UN this past April,

which you would know, if you would bother to the read the article I posted.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. I did.

Nothing changed!

[scarletwoman]

25. "Nothing changed!"

Well, that's self-evident. Carry on, then.

[Behind the Aegis]

26. When the status of the Shebba Farms changes...

...then they will have a real reason, until then, it is a RED HERRING!

[scarletwoman]

28. The status of Shebaa Farms will change when it is no longer occupied by

a foreign state.

Then Syria and Lebanon will negotiate where the border is to be drawn between them. Seems straightforward enough.

If Lebanon is to exist as a sovereign nation, its national borders need to be clearly deliniated. How is that not just common sense?

sw

[Behind the Aegis]

29. It is Syria's land.

Lebanon has no right to make claims about what should or shouldn't be done with it. That is between Israel and Syria. It is a Lebanese version of a red herring. Lebanon's borders are clearly identified, they have been for almost six years.

[magellan]

32. Not true

That part of the border remains under contention.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060729/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_peace_package_4

"U.N. experts have previously determined that the territory is part of Syria's Golan Heights, now held by Israel. But Syria has said the patch of land is Lebanon's."

[scarletwoman]

34. Thanks. (nt)

[magellan]

39. No probleme. You might also find interesting

...the paragraph above that in the article:

The provisions do not spell out the order in which the steps must take place, but Saniora has said the government cannot spread its authority in the south unless the Chebaa farms issue is resolved. Israel's hold on Chebaa has provided Hezbollah with a rationale to maintain its arsenal and its "resistance" against Israel.

I think Saniora is right. Chebaa Farms may not be important to the Lebanese as a whole, but if it's one of things providing Hezbollah with a rationale to fight then take away the rationale. The matter seems easily resolved: the UN has determined it's Syria's; Syria has said it belongs to Lebanon; so return it to Lebanon already, for the love of God, and move on to the next sticking point.

[scarletwoman]

42. That's precisely the point he was making in the interview in the OP.

If the world wants to see Hizbollah disarmed, then help the Lebanonese government remove Hizbollah's raisons d'etre.

sw

[magellan]

47. Yes, and it's precisely the help they haven't been receiving

I love (as one loves a recurring rash) the posts admonishing the Lebanese gov't for not dealing with Hezbollah previously. In point of fact they were dealing with Hezbollah, and making modest headway, despite the fragility of their newly formed democracy.

It's also true they were hampered by unresolved issues like Chebaa farms, over which the Lebanese gov't has no control; Israel occupies the land in spite of the UN's determination that the land is Syria's and Syria has said it's Lebanon's.

Israel would no doubt argue that ceding the land back to Lebanon would be like giving it to Hezbollah, and that would present a security threat. But holding it hasn't stopped Hezbollah's cross border attacks either, so what's the point in continuing when ceding Chebaa farms would at least help the Lebanese gov't advance it's case to Hezbollah to disarm?

It seems Israel expects the moon and stars as well, just like the US -- without acknowledging and correcting its own failed policies that cause blowback. But then, that's the definition of 'might makes right', while true national security requires falling on one's sword when appropriate.

[originalpckelly]

33. Why can't Syria cede the land to Lebanon?

If it is a bluff, call their bluff. They are the only ones who will suffer. (Oh and those pesky Israelis who are now occupying it.)

[scarletwoman]

36. Syria says it cannot (will not) draw a border on occupied land. (nt)

[originalpckelly]

37. Okay why doesn't Israel withdraw from the land?

Then have Syria give it to Lebanon?

[scarletwoman]

40. Yes, well -- that IS the question, now, isn't it.

In my readings around the web on this issue, I've come across speculation here and there that it may have something to do with access to a water source.

Just something that made me go, "hmmmm..." I've been reading so much stuff lately that I've lost track of where I've seen what, my apologies that I don't have any sources to cite -- just my memory of seeing the water issue brought up in a couple places.

sw

[hoboken123]

66. Odds of Syria doing this?

They could have given away this land at any time.

[BeHereNow]

5. Hi Scarletwoman-

So nice to see you posting again.
A reasoned voice sharing factual information is like
a well of cool water in these parts
here of late...
BHN:hi:

[scarletwoman]

15. Hi BHN. Thanks.

I still put my 2 cents in once in awhile -- not that it does much good that I can see. ;)

sw
:hi:

[Igel]

6. True.

And Lebanon should pressure Syria to making peace with Israel in such a way that the land returns to Syrian control, and make Syria formally deed it over to Lebanon.

For it was crawling with Syrian troops when Israel captured it in '67 or '73 ('74? I'm getting old ...), and its capture was not considered agression against Lebanon at the time. And Syria will not deign to make the transfer official: If it did, there might be a problem with UN's accepting the transferral of land not under a country's control, but at least it would show some good faith on Syria's part.

Since Syria refuses, the provocation is revealed for what it is: a base attempt to justify Hezbollah's retaining its arms, to manipulate others into accepting Hezbollah's status, and to provoke constant trouble between Lebanon and Israel. The farms weren't an issue from the '50s to 2000, *after* Israel pulled out of Lebanon and there were calls for disarming Hezbollah.

Lebanon: "Why stay armed if there's no occupation?"
Hezbollah: "But ... but ... I'm the resistance. I'm heroic, defending the worldwide Ummah from the depradations of the corrupt Jews, defending Arab honor and all around a swell monkey ... guerrilla. Oh, shit, the UN's on their side...., I knew they couldn't be trusted. (Hezbollah huddles with Assad) Wait! Wait! We found it! Occupied land! We *knew* there had to be some! The glorious resistance continues! Praise Assad! Er ... Allah!"
Lebanon: "Is this true, Syria? Well, then, make an honest man out of Hezbollah and sign here, showing that the land is Lebanese. Please?"
Hezbollah: "How insulting! I never! I'm a hero, insinuating I'm less than honest--watch it Signora, this barrel doesn't shoot blanks!"
Syria: "Well ... not today. It's nice that Hezbollah's putting out for us, but I'm afraid of commitment."
Signora, for Lebanon: Well, OK.

[The Stranger]

20. Then there is no dispute the land belongs to Lebanon?

(I'm trying to understand what is going on here.)

[bemildred]

22. Well, yeah.

It seems to be a very successful provocation. But you don't have to play their game, you could just leave.

As the Magistrate correctly points out, it is a bullshit issue, viewed on any rational basis, so why valorize it for this political dog and pony show? Sometimes the correct thing to do is step back.

[malaise]

13. Syria already OKed it n/t

[allemand]

11. Nobody denies that it belongs to Lebanese citizens.

So it is theirs. If it is part of Lebanon is a different question.

[The Stranger]

19. Hit a nerve with you?

My my.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. .

:eyes:

[Fredda Weinberg]

4. Did no good last time Israel tried it

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/763504.stm

According to Israel Radio the Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, said the withdrawal from part of the Shebaa farms area was designed "to remove from Syrian President Hafez al-Assad any excuse to encourage Hezbollah terrorism from Lebanon against Israel."

[chimpymustgo]

7. Bottom line: it's NOT Israel's land. They need to get the hell out.

Some of this is not all that complicated.

[Fredda Weinberg]

8. As the article points out ... they tried n/t

[Zhade]

9. Right. A partial withdrawal from land they don't own...

...is going to satiate those in Hezbollah who might argue, and not without precedent, that a partial withdrawal by the Israeli military doesn't mean shit?

I mean, look at Gaza. It's not like Hezbollah doesn't unfortunately have some examples of long-term brutal occupation to point at and say "See? Israel doesn't really plan to withdraw."

[Fredda Weinberg]

10. You want to look at Gaza?

Israel leaves and Hamas starts killing PA - never mind the shells they couldn't shoot straight.

As for Shebaa Farms, I'm afraid you're applying a double standard I see no reason to accept. Israel was complying with UN negotiators who were trying to arrange a stable peace. How sad that you cheer those who choose violence.

[Zhade]

44. I'm not supporting the bombing of innocent Lebanese...

...so I have nothing to feel ashamed of, thankfully.

As for this: "Israel leaves and Hamas starts killing PA", I'm afraid your meaning is unclear.

[Fredda Weinberg]

48. I'm clear - you're ignorant of the reference

You didn't notice that after Israel pulled troops from Gaza, the Hamas militia and its spin-offs started street battles with the Palestinian Authority leading up to, during and after the elections.

[Zhade]

53. Um, no, your wording was unclear.

I thought you were describing what would happen if Israel pulled out of Gaza now.

I'm very much aware of the fighting that took place before the elections, I commented on that fighting when it was addressed on DU at the time.

[The Magistrate]

14. That Matter, Ma'am

Is of so little real consequence credit could only go to the first party sensible enough to acknowledge its unimportance, and only discredit be earned by any who proclaim it worth infliction of so much as a hang-nail on another human being over....

[scarletwoman]

18. Hey, all I did is post the text of an interview with Siniora.

For all that it may seem a matter of "so little real consequence" to you, it apparently is important to Prime Minister Siniora.

I posted an excerpt above from an interesting article about Siriora's vist to Washington and the UN this past April -- when Bush was gushing over the "Cedar Revolution":

"We took great joy in seeing the Cedar Revolution," Bush said, referring to the uprising that rid Lebanon of Syrian troops but still not all Syrian influence.

"We understand that the hundreds of thousands of people who took to the street to express their desire to be free required courage, and we support the desire of the people to have a government responsive to their needs and a government that is free, truly free."

Bush said he had no doubt that "Lebanon can serve as a great example for what is possible in the broader Middle East, that out of the tough times the country has been through will rise a state that shows that it's possible for people of religious difference to live side-by-side in peace."

http://www.ain-al-yaqeen.com/issues/20060428/feat9en.htm
April 28 2006

And here are some examples of when the subject of the Shebaa Farms was brought up:

Siniora said he told Bush that Shebaa Farms are part of Lebanon, and he wants Israel to withdraw from them.

"We want withdrawal," Siniora said in a television interview. "We are trying to agree on a strategy on how to best protect Lebanon."

***

The United States strongly supports Siniora's goal of a fully sovereign, democratic Lebanon, a point Rice made during a brief visit to Beirut two months ago. The U.S. wants to end Syrian influence in neighboring Lebanon, and Lebanese officials said Siniora shares that view.

Siniora said he also intends to highlight the importance of U.S. assistance in "backing Lebanon's independence and sovereignty and enabling it to recover its (occupied) Lebanese territories," a reference to the disputed Chebaa Farms area, where the borders of Lebanon, Syria and Israel meet. That's an area where Hezbollah, the Lebanese militia, continues to fight Israel. (my emphasis)

***

Addressing the UN Security Council Siniora spoke of the importance of what the Lebanese national dialogue had achieved so far, which involved the Lebanese-Syrian relations, the issue of occupied Shebaa Farms, and the importance of liberating it and demarcating its borders.

***

Siniora also addressed Lebanese-Syrian relations during a conference he held at the Woodrow Wilson Foundation in Washington.

In his speech he said that the establishing of good relations with Syria needs, and above all, the acceptance of the Syrian government in Lebanon as an independent country.

He also stressed that a positive response by Syria, on two issues, the demarcating of borders and establishing diplomatic relations, will be an indication that Syria is beginning to accept the idea that good relations are possible based on mutual respect.

Siniora also said that an Israeli withdrawal from the Lebanese Shebaa Farms area is a priority national issue. He added quote "It is incumbent upon Israel to withdraw from it, hand over the Lebanese detainees in its prisons, submit the maps of the landmines it left in the South, and stop its infringements on the Lebanese sovereignty".

The premier had made these points earlier in talks with US president George W. Bush and other top US officials.

Syria's UN deputy representative Milad Atieh responded by restating Damascus' willingness to demarcate the borders, although he said this could not be done in the Shebaa Farms area because the area is under Israeli occupation. He also showed suspicion in involving such an issue and the issue of establishing diplomatic relations with Lebanon under resolution 1559, which Syria executed completely through the part concerning the withdrawal of its troops and security devices from Lebanon in 2005.

Syria cannot draw its shared border with Lebanon because a key southern zone remains occupied by Israel, a government official said in response to a UN call to firm up its frontiers.

"Syria cannot delineate the border of the Shebaa (Farms area) because it is occupied," Foreign Minister Walid Muallem said in an interview.

It appears to me that this IS a major issue to the players involved. In any case, ou might find the whole piece interesting reading -- much of it is terribly ironic given current events.

sw

[The Magistrate]

27. This Is Another Instance, Ma'am

Of the tremendous degree of exaggeration that afflicts not only persons discussing this matter, but real participants as well.

The fact is that the land in question is a tiny strip of ground, not much larger than our lakefront parklands here in Chicago. It is of no economic or military signifigance in the present day, with all due respect to those who take a water-based view of these matters. If the various principals approached it at its true value, rather than through the distorting lens of symbol, they would see it as a thing to be settled by cash or concesssion or a law-suit, rather than by blood, and were there among them a single far-sighted person who understood the full art of state-craft, he or she would have said long ago, "Fine, it does not matter, take it and wear it in good health," and basked afterwards in the glow of prestige as a peace-maker while removing a flash-point of friction as the surest means of disarming radicals who are as hostile to Lebanon as to Israel and not even particularly comfortable presences to Syria.

Prime Minister Siniora is a fool to rate it so highly, so is Prime Minister Olmert, President Assad, and the contemptible Nasrallah....

[scarletwoman]

30. Well, sure. Rational state actors would be a refreshing novelty.

Kumbaya and all that...

[bemildred]

31. Seventh grade level would be a refreshing novelty. nt

[The Magistrate]

43. I Imagine, Though, Ma'am, Unfortunately

That neither of us are holding our breath for such things to appear....

[scarletwoman]

46. No. Definitely not holding my breath.

Just drinking heavily... :P

sw

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Siniora is a moron.

I have been wholly unimpressed with his sniveling.

[Kagemusha]

35. Serious question. Why doesn't Israel just give Syria the damn land,

and let Hezbollah fight the SYRIANS to liberate it for Lebanon?

Or does that make too much sense?

[scarletwoman]

38. You'd need to ask the Israelis.

Of course it makes sense. Which counts for nothing in the Middle East, it seems.

sw

[oberliner]

41. this whole situation

I seriously cannot figure out what the deal is with the Shebaa farms controversy.

Nothing that I've read seems to make any sense on the subject.

And no matter what source I go to, none of them make a convincing case as to why this is a big deal.

We're talking about around 10km of desolate farm land that does not appear to be of particular strategic importance to anyone.

Am I reading BS propaganda on this? Is it not really desolate? Is it actually strategically important in some way?

All I can make out is that Lebanon is demanding that Israel return these farms which it is occupying from Syria over to Lebanon.

Does Syria want this land? Does Israel not want to give it up to either party? Why does the UN claim it is part of Syria while Lebanon claims it as its own? Why is this such an important component of a peace deal?

I'm not getting it at all.

[scarletwoman]

45. Syria has indicated that it considers it part of Lebanon.

Syria's stance is that the permanent Syrian-Lebanese border cannot be deliniated while this territory is under foreign occupation.

As to why Israel will not give it up -- who knows?

sw

[The Magistrate]

49. Short Answer, Sir

When the French drew up boundarues in the formewr Ottoman territory they received after World War One, the lines placed this bit in Syria. However, the line did not quite match the actual early practice of the Ottoman tax collectors, and the few people resident here paid towards Beirut and considered themselves attached there. As rule on both side of the lines was French, no one particularly cared initially, and it was no problem later that anyone needed to notice. The area was part of what Israel over-ran in the '67 war, which removed it from Syrian authority. During the period Syria ocupied Lebanon, its leaders found it useful to recognize the earlier Lebanese claim to the patch of ground. The United Nations has re-affirmed the original borders drawn by the French.

[oberliner]

50. thanks

Still not sure why Israel was so keen on keeping it when they pulled out of Lebanon.

Could they have turned it over to Lebanon at that point or would Syria have made a claim?

Why does Lebanon want the land to be turned over to it right now rather than to Syria?

And why is Syria ok with ceding the land to Lebanon?

[The Magistrate]

52. Essentially, Sir

It is a fringe of the Golan Heights.

Syria is not going to get these back, certainly not without a real peace treaty no Ba'athist government based on a minority sect could sign safely, so why not part with a bit of title to make trouble in a fresh quarter? Isreal, probably, considers it part of the whole package from Syria in '67, that is supposed to be negotiating leverage for a treaty in that direction.

[Emit]

51. This is the only picture I could find, but it doesn't look all that desolat...

desolate:


Occupied Lebanese Sheba Farms




Of course, I live in the Great Basin/High Desert area, and most farms tend to look just like that here. :D


Great Basin/High Desert

[oberliner]

54. thanks for posting that pic

Where'd you find it?

I got "desolate" off Wikipedia. They don't seem to cite an actual source for that claim.

Shebaa Farms (also known as the Shaba, Sheba, Shabah, Shabaa, Shab'a, Chab'a, Sheb'a, Sheba'a, or Shib’a Farms) is an area of disputed ownership located at the junction of Syria, Lebanon, and Israel, southwest of Shebaa (a Lebanese village on the northwestern slopes of Mount Hermon), and overlooks Israeli towns below. The area is about 14 kilometres (8.7 mi) in length, and averages 2.5 kilometres (1.6 mi) in width, at altitudes of 150 to 1,880 meters (490–6,170 ft). GeoRef: 33|18|57.91|N,35|44|08.10|E(GoogleEarth). Its fertile well-watered farmland formerly produced barley, fruits, and vegetables for 14 farms, but is now desolate.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaba_Farms

Edit to add: Any idea when that picture is from?

[Emit]

55. It was with this article

http://www.islamicdigest.net/v61/content/view/1746/40/

[oberliner]

56. picture and video here

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/05/31/israel.syria.02/

[Emit]

59. I can't get the video to work

for some odd reason. But this picture sure looks like it could've been taken here in the high desert area! Wow, that looks like some of the vacant lots and the foothill areas in my town.

[oberliner]

57. looks a little more desolate here

http://www.bintjbeil.com/A/news/2003/0712_shebaa.html

Don't know what the site says, as it is in Arabic. Pics are named "shebba_gate" and "shebaa_israpost" also "shebaa_square" and "shebaa_balad".



Edit to add: I wonder if the square is part of Shebaa farms or part of the actual town of Shebaa in Lebanon.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. I don't think the Lebanese gov't can force Hezbollah to disarm, period.

This is a smokescreen.

[scarletwoman]

60. Well, Hizbollah is PART of the Lebanese government, you know.

Their political arm holds seats in the Lebanese Parliament.

From what I have been reading, one idea being proposed seems to be some sort of process by which the military arm of Hizbollah gets incorporated into the official, state-sanctioned Lebanese army. So "disarmament" is really a misnomer. It is really more of a matter of bringing Hizbollah's military capabilities under the control of the central government.

It's not an altogether impossible goal, methinks. Hezbollah, with its political and military wings, can, in some ways, be compared with the Sein Fein/IRA.

Perhaps if the political arm grows stronger, it might provide the military arm an opportunity for integration into the national project of building a strong sovereign state.

A ceasefire WILL eventually happen -- too much of the world is absolutely appalled at the destruction being rained down on Lebanon. It will be quite fascinating to see what comes next. Right now, support for Hizbollah in Lebanon is growing among all sectarian factions including Christians. It could be an historic moment for Hizbollah if they choose to identify with the nation-state of Lebanon over their sectarian identity.

sw

[Warren DeMontague]

61. Oh, I agree- I think there needs to be a ceasefire.

But I have no illusions that Israel giving this one small swath of land to anyone is going to magically bring long term peace- or stop Hezbollah from being fully committed to their destruction.

[scarletwoman]

62. How do you know that Hizbollah is "fully committed to their destruction"?

Their main demands are:

a) The end of the Israeli occupation of the Shebaa Farms.

b) A map of the locations of the mines planted by Israel in Southern Lebanon during Israel's two decade occupation.

c) An end to Israel's invasions of Lebanese air space and cross-border incursions.

d) The release of Lebanonese prisoners (specifically women, children and elderly) held by Israel without trial.

If you have some documentation of Hizbollah officials making statements calling for the destruction of Israel, I hope you will post them and I will concede your point.

sw

[Warren DeMontague]

63. Really? You mean that one of Hezbollah's primary demands re: "Prisoner

Exchange" ISN'T that the Israelis release this guy:?

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/15100638.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samir_Kuntar


That's funny. It sure sounds like it is.

You will please note that neither is Mr. Kuntar "elderly", a "woman", a "child", nor is he "held without trial"- he's been tried, and sentenced, for among other things smashing in a four year old girl's head with a rifle butt.

As for statements by Hezbollah officials. I assume you'd consider Mr. Nasrallah one of those:

"if they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."

http://web.archive.org/web/20021024133755/http://www.dailystar.com.lb/23_10_02/art5.asp

"It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth."

http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id=10439

[scarletwoman]

64. I appreciate the links.

Obviously, Samir Kuntar's murderous teenage (the article states he was 16 years old) rampage in Israel was a terrible act. Cold-blooded killing of innocents is abhorrant no matter who does it. I notice that the justification is the same no matter which side is killing children -- "it's war."

That Kuntar is apparently revered as a hero by Palestinians as well as Lebanese Muslims, is a reflection of the deep antipathy toward Israel that runs throughout the Islamic world. It is symptomatic of the ongoing resentment that the Zionist project has engendered over the past 50+ years. It is one the great tragedies of the 20th/21st centuries.

(from the Daily Star link you provided) Nasrallah alleged that oil companies and weapons firms that have financed the “Christian Zionists,” the Arabic term for the right-wing Christian supporters of Israel, were in alliance in the United States.

“Their aim is to redraw the world’s political map,” he said. “It is said that several US presidents are affiliated with the Christian Zionists.”
Nasrallah said their aim was to return the Jews to Israel and rebuild their temple, destroyed by the Romans in 70AD, over the Al-Aqsa Mosque.
However, Nasrallah added, “if they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.”

Classic eliminationist rhetoric, to be sure.

sw

[Warren DeMontague]

65. And like I said, I think there should be a cease fire.

My primary wish is for the killing -all of it- to stop. I don't know what kind of long-term prospects for peace anyone can have when the various sides have, as you put it, such "antipathy" for each other. For now I'd settle just for people -particularly children- to stop getting blown up.

Peace.
---i.