This Israeli War Criminal On MTP Is Offensive

[DistressedAmerican]

Dan Gillerman is a repulsive lying sack of shit!

He actually just implied that Hezbollah held the people killed in Qana "against their will"!

Will these criminals say ANYTHING to justify these war crimes?

Olmert and everyone connected should be put in jail for the remainder of their lives. And this guy should be with them.

Fucking minister of propoganda for war criminals.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. at some point, this will backfire on them.

people will recognize the common thread of bullshit and spin that spews in the same key, the same beat and under the same conductor from Washington and Jerusalem at the same time.

[LizW]

2. Israel doing the "dirty work"

for the rest of the world. He just said.

That sounds sick to me.

[originalpckelly]

3. I have listened to Mr. Fertilizerman...he is a bigot...

He says the same things over and over again.

Of course he is also a bigot:
"This is no longer just a war against terror. This is, as you pointed out, Lou, a war against extreme fundamentalist Islamic terrorism.

You know, while it may be politically incorrect and maybe even untrue to say that all Muslims are terrorists, it happens to be very true that nearly all terrorists are Muslim. So this is not just Israel's war.

This is the world's war. We are fighting it. We are on the front line. But I can sense, and I could even sense it at the Security Council today, that the world understands that we're fighting this war."

From Lou Dobbs Tonight:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0607/14/ldt.01.html

[burythehatchet]

4. Racist bastard

[MH1]

38. Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph were Muslims?

Wow, learn something new every day.

:sarcasm:

[acmejack]

57. All terrorists are muslims?

Shin Bet, IRA, ETA how many need to be listed? That was the most ridiculous statement I have ever read.

[TahitiNut]

90. Yet his 'audience' of drooling knuckle-draggers will eat it up.

It's putrid mental sewage - a mere snack for the Republikkudites.

[originalpckelly]

63. The real kicker is that I know he kept saying this bigoted statement...

on FOX when I flipped through I found him talking to Bill O'Lielly and of course Bill agreed with him completely.

[twiterpatted]

5. How dare he insult the good people of Hezbollah, they would

never do anything like that. Sure they use children as human shields by placing their rocket launchers next to residential buildings, sure Israel tells the population to leave because we are going to bomb near you. But, Hezbollah would never do anything to sacrifice innocent lives to win a PR war.

[Gman]

6. First off, they're not "good people"

Why do you say Hezbollah members are "good people"?

Hezbollah is just as culpable as Israel. there is plenty of blame to go around here.

[twiterpatted]

12. Calm down and read the whole post.

[WinkyDink]

32. It's called sarcasm.

[still_one]

46. I think he was being scarcastic

[itzamirakul]

7. Would Israel use innocent children as human shields?

Do you think that Lebanese love their children less?

[twiterpatted]

13. Fact: Israel has not used children as human shields, Fact: Hezbollah has.

Fact: Lebanon allows Hezbollah to exist within its political system.

[jonnyblitz]

24. FACT : Israel uses human shields in the land they hold under

illegal military occupation. I have read this COUNTLESS times.

[itzamirakul]

67. Doesn't Israel allow the Mossaud to exist within its political system?

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Why shouldn't Lebanon be allowed to have a force to protect themselves? This is the reasoning that makes no sense to me - that ONLY Israel should be allowed to have a fearsome army and the latest in technological advances in weaponry. Let both sides be able to defend themselves against each other.

[twiterpatted]

91. Lebanon has its own conventional Military, Hezbollah is out side of that

military and exist for the soul purpose of destroying Israel. Do you now recognize the distinction.

[itzamirakul]

103. It is conventional only because people say it is conventional.

I don't see what makes one armed force conventional and another unconventional. I believe that the leaders of the Arab nations have agreed that Israel has a right to exist. I certainly feel that Israel has that right and that no one has the right to destroy that country.

But I do not feel that Israel has the right to destroy other countries either.

When it comes to building a "new middle east" as Rice purports to do, I think some effort should be made to change Israel from being an apartheid state into a real democracy. While I definitely support Israel's right to exist, I cannot in all honesty support an apartheid state. To do so would be the same as saying that apartheid is right and should exist in America as well. That is the same as supporting racism.

[theHandpuppet]

124. FACT: You are wrong.

For those who claim only one side is using civilians as human shields. Face it -- more war, more death and more violence is NOT THE ANSWER. Not for ANYONE.
Peace!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5212870.stm

Israelis accused of 'human shields' tactic
By Lucy Williamson
BBC News, Gaza

The Israeli army has been accused of using Palestinian civilians as human shields in an operation in northern Gaza.
According to the Israeli human rights group, B'tselem, six civilians including two minors were subjected to the illegal tactic during an incursion into the town of Beit Hanoun last week.

(snipping)
It's a week since Israel came into Beit Hanoun, but the gash in the side of his house is still raw, the soft inside of family life still visible through the lumps of concrete hanging from the wall. A broken bed; a few girders dripping onto it; an elegant wardrobe still standing against the back wall.

It was soon after dawn when the Israeli army bulldozed their way in. Hazem was still sleeping, taking a break from his job as an engineer with the local Palestinian news agency.

'Blindfolded'

It was his mother who met them in the hallway, Israeli soldiers in a Palestinian home. Behind her, Hazem and his two brothers emerged, one by one.

The three brothers were blindfolded, says Hazem, and their hands tied behind their backs. He shows me the wounds on his wrists from the plastic handcuffs - still sore and infected, but beginning to heal over.

He shows me where the soldiers positioned them: outside the entrance to his flat on the third floor, in the stairwell, facing down the steps...

MORE

[twiterpatted]

131. You found one instance where Israel is - ACCUSED- of what

you know Hezbollah does daily as a matter of course and public strategy and you then say they are Equal. I think you just made my point.

[theHandpuppet]

151. YOU ARE WRONG.... AGAIN

Of course, you'll just deny any evidence blasting your misinformation to bits.

Let's take this excerpt:

"According to the Israeli human rights group, B'tselem, six civilians including two minors were subjected to the illegal tactic during an incursion into the town of Beit Hanoun last week." Okay, so these Israelis are liars?

Another excerpt
Court outlawed tactic

"Allegations over Israel's use of human shields have surfaced before. The last time they made headlines was during Operation Defensive Shield in the West Bank town of Jenin, four years ago.

"The army denied its personnel systematically used civilians as human shields during that operation, but it did issue an order outlawing the practice. As did the Israeli High Court." (Note the Israeli army didn't deny using the tactic, they just denied using it "systematically". )''

You want more links? Here one to B'TSELEM, the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories

http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/20060720_Human_Shields_in_Beit_Hanun.asp

20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun

B'Tselem's initial investigation indicates that, during an incursion by Israeli forces into Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, on 17 July 2006, soldiers seized control of two buildings in the town and used residents as human shield.

After seizing control of the buildings, the soldiers held six residents, two of them minors, on the staircases of the two buildings, at the entrance to rooms in which the soldiers positioned themselves, for some twelve hours. During this time, there were intense exchanges of gunfire between the soldiers and armed Palestinians. The soldiers also demanded that one of the occupants walk in front of them during a search of all the apartments in one of the buildings, after which they released her.... MORE

Or how about this one? And please note the date - 2002.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0817-05.htm

Published on Saturday, August 17, 2002 in the Chicago Tribune
'Human Shield' Flap Hurts Israel
Rights Groups Vow Court Filing to Stop Incursion Practice
by Christine Spolar

(excerpt)
"Rights groups are also concerned by the army's use of Palestinian civilians.

"On Wednesday, Israeli forces destroyed the home of Nasser Jerar, who the army said was planning a bombing attack. In that operation, troops forced 19-year-old Nidal Daraghmeh at gunpoint to approach the building before it was bulldozed to persuade any civilians inside to leave, army officials said.

"Even though he was given a bulletproof vest and soldiers announced his presence, Daraghmeh was fatally shot in the head as he approached the house, local media reported.

"The Israeli army has said Daraghmeh was hit by gunfire from the house. Palestinians accuse the army of killing the young man.

"Jerar was crushed to death as bulldozers razed the house.

"Practice called routine

"The army, throughout the West Bank incursions, has relied on forcing Palestinians to help with its armed raids. This spring, Palestinian bystanders in cities such as Jenin and Nablus told reporters that such incidents were routine."

Or how about this one? The evidence here is presented by the author, who served as an Israeli infantry reservist in the West Bank in the 1980s and '90s

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/21/news/edwatz.php

(excerpts)

Human shields or bulldozers? Or neither?
Haim Watzman The New York Times
Published: June 21, 2006

JERUSALEM Nine months ago, Israel's Supreme Court forbade the Israeli Army to use civilians as human shields when it raided houses to arrest Palestinian combatants. Last week, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that the consequence of the ruling has actually been to place Palestinian civilians in greater danger. Instead of soldiers entering houses to find their targets, the army is using bulldozers to knock the houses down...

... "We used Palestinian civilians for other tasks as well. If we discovered that the boys in the village had jury-rigged a roadblock during the night, we'd grab some nearby civilians and order them to dismantle it. This was partly an act of collective punishment, but there was also a safety factor. If the roadblock was booby-trapped, they'd get hurt instead of us.

"I always felt queasy about using civilians to protect us. It didn't seem to me that we had the right to put someone else's life in danger to protect our own. I voiced my reservations on occasion, but nothing changed. Sometime during the years that followed, the pointer and roadblock clearers evolved into something even more questionable: the human shield. Soldiers who had to raid a house or patrol a dangerous stretch of road would grab a nearby civilian and place him in front of them.

"The routine became much more widespread in April 2002, when Israel reoccupied the West Bank in response to a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings and other acts of violence against Israeli civilians...."

Or this one? The Israelis have been doing this FOR YEARS.

Posted 10/6/2005 7:28 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-10-06-israelhumanshields_x.htm

Israel court bans practice of 'human shields' in arrests

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel's Supreme Court on Thursday banned the military's practice of using Palestinian civilians as "human shields" in arrest raids, saying it violates international law.

The ruling was a rare instance in which the court took a stand in Israel's conflict with the Palestinians. The Supreme Court has often deferred to security arguments despite international condemnation of some Israeli practices. It has upheld practices such as targeted killings of Palestinian militants.

Human rights groups filed the petition in May 2002 in response to the army's use of Palestinian civilians in dozens of West Bank arrest operations. In August 2002, the court issued a temporary injunction against the practice. Human rights groups have said the military has repeatedly violated the ban since then.... MORE

Or how about this one?

Rights group on Jenin: Massacre, no; human shields, yes

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/05/03/rights.watch.jenin/
May 4, 2002 Posted: 3:12 PM EDT (1912 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Israeli troops used Palestinian civilians as human shields and forced them to participate in dangerous military operations during the Israel sweep through a refugee camp in Jenin last month, according to a report released Friday by Human Rights Watch.

But the group's investigators found no evidence that Israeli troops massacred Palestinian civilians in Jenin, as some Palestinian officials had earlier charged.

"The abuses we documented in Jenin are extremely serious, and in some cases appear to be war crimes," said Peter Bouckaert, senior researcher for the group and a member of the investigative team.

Had enough? No? Here are some more links...

http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/Timeline_of_Events.asp
http://www.btselem.org/English/Testimonies/Index.asp?TF=12
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4314898.stm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0418-06.htm
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/9/2004/581

There are plenty more where those came from.

Using civilians as shields is wrong no matter who does it, and Israel is not innocent of this tactic no matter how much you deny it.

YOU.... ARE.... WRONG, twiterpatted.

[spanone]

132. FACT: The Israelis bombed a house and killed 37 CHILDLREN

[twiterpatted]

134. Bad and wrong, yes. Intentional, no.

Fact: Hezbollah uses these children as sheilds.

[spanone]

138. You may be right, you may be wrong. How would you or I know this?

[twiterpatted]

140. Are you unsure about Hezbollah's use of Civilians as Human shields?

[still_one]

51. when Arabs love their children more than they hate Israel

then their will be peace

[PA Democrat]

68. Now that's DEEP! The whole Middle East mess is due to the fact that

"Arabs" don't love their children enough.

[still_one]

113. you don't even know where that quote comes from do you?

yet you have such an enormous grasp of middle east

[PA Democrat]

118. Golda Meir.

I have heard it repeated ad nauseam over the years. Any more insults?

Edited for spelling.

[still_one]

123. no, but the hatred of Israel that has been manifested here

over the past two weeks shows that many are NOT interested in a dialog, but hate

Why wasn't there the same outrage with Sudan or Rawandi?

Those were genocides, same as Serbia.

I do not defend the over-reaction of Israel, but I will also call a double standard when I see it, and this lies deeper than just Lebanon. Maybe NOT with you, but with many here, they HATE Israel. It seeths through the threads of the last two weeks

It is more than just critisim or outrage at the actions of Israel, much more

[PA Democrat]

127. I am so glad you can see into my heart and justify your insulting remarks.

Your first reaction was to insult, and then make excuses. Pitiful.

[gulfcoastliberal]

137. This is "love"?

Yep, they love them babies...

[PA Democrat]

152. No that is not love, nor is it all Arabs, as the Meir quote suggests.

[Lars39]

73. and visa versa

And either way it's a rotten thing to say

[still_one]

112. really, this was a statement made in reference to suicide bombers

It was said by a famous person, and that you don't even recognize it, tells me just how much you know about the middle east

[Lars39]

120. That you didn't attribute it says a bit about you also.

Golda Meir,iirc.

[still_one]

125. It was such a well known quote I didn't think I had to

but let the non-constructive attacks begin

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AnOhioan]

88. What a crock of shit

[still_one]

115. of course you would say that

I am sure just like most of the sheep they only have a very basic knowledge of the middle east. Do you know who said that?

[AnOhioan]

136. I, being a history buff since childhood, probably have a better..

understanding of the who's, why's and wherefore's of the mideast than most. Your post was crap, it is now and it was when Meir said it. In another post you accuse people of having a double standard, of igonoring atrocities in other countries and focusing only on Israel.

Maybe some here so, I do not.

You also state you are not defending the "over-reaction".

From my perspective that is exactly what you are doing, by dredging up an old quote that was disgusting then and is disgusting now.

I have no more time to debate with you....your posts make it clear where you stand.

[Warpy]

8. Right, and holy Israel would never bomb roads, bridges and airports

preventing people from leaving those areas they're warning people to leave, would they?

Get real. Israel is NOT wearing the white hat in this war. Nobody is.

What they are doing is WRONG. The blowback will be considerable.

[twiterpatted]

10. Wrong, nobody has died because Israel bombed the only exit.

That you would make that argument means your point of view is irrational to begin with. Israel is wearing the only hat they have, self preservation, and they don't care what color you think it is.

I would like to see a terrorist organization try to build a conventional army on one of our boarders with the help and support of the local government, be it Canadian or Mexican. You and I would start the bombing immediately.

[Mandate My Ass]

14. Those 37 disabled kids were threatening Israel?

Surely the river of blood being spilled, on the unlikely chance that one drop of Israeli blood might be spilled, is well justified.

Talk about irrational. Poof, be gone.

[twiterpatted]

18. Israel is just crazy, right.

if this were true - "unlikely chance that one drop of Israeli blood might be spilled" - i would agree.

For what purpose does Hezbollah exist?

[Mandate My Ass]

25. you conveniently forgot the dead Lebanese children

I'm sure you meant to say you're sorry they had to die so you can sleep better at night.

[twiterpatted]

34. Are you saying Israel intentionally killed these kids, or that Israel

doesn't like kids. Is this your point?

[DistressedAmerican]

41. Look up the term COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT while you sit here and justify

the actions of war criminals. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[still_one]

59. What motivation would Israel have to intentially target civilians?

Do you really believe that?

[DistressedAmerican]

64. They are destroying the entire country so it will not be a threat for

another 25 years. Do they sit around and say, "hey lets bomb a bunch of children today? No. Are they wantonly indescriminate in the natiowide destruction they are reeking while claiming they are ONLY targeting Hezbollah? Without a doubt. Just turn on your television. Dresden did not look to kill specific numbers of civilians. But, the indescriminate fire-bombing that killed them all was STILL a war crime.

It is collective punishment when you kill more civilians than conbatants, it is collective punishment when you destroy the entire civilian infrastructure of a country.

Collective punishment is banned by the Geneva Conventions. Israel is in violation of the Geneve Conventions. They are happy with that because they know they have our perpetual veto to give their war crimes cover (and of course a bunch of folks that think they are liberal but excuse war crimes as long as it is Israel comitting them).

[still_one]

72. I am NOT defending the killing of children

I am simply asking what motivation would they have for delibertly attacking civilians?

because frankly, a hell of a lot more civillians could be killed with the fire power they have

[DistressedAmerican]

82. Deliberate Targeting Is A BS Symantic Issue.

Like I just said, we did not intentionally target civilains in the Dresden bombings. We tageted a civilian center knowing we would kill large numberf of civilians.

IT IS A WAR CRIME WHETHER THEY LOOK DOWN THE RIFLE SIGHT AND SHOOT A KNOWN CIVILIAN OR IF YOU INDESCRIMINATELY BOMB CIVILIAN POPULATIONS. Same crime.

You are desperate to find a distinction that does not exist.

[still_one]

108. BULL, we targeted civilians in the fire bombins for Dresden

don't kid yourself

We also targeted civillian in Afganistan

and that does NOT MEAN I APPROVE

[Mandate My Ass]

43. it's a war crime to bomb civilians on the chance that you might hit

the enemy. Intentional or not, what Israel is doing is against international law, and it's plain wrong. One third of the civilian dead in Lebanon is children, which is now in the hundreds. Surely Israel is aware of this and yet they continue with the same course of action. If they haven't stopped, then yes, I have to believe now that it's intentional.

[twiterpatted]

48. Is Israel bombing civilians, or are they targeting Hezbollah positions?

[DistressedAmerican]

53. They have bombed the entire fucking country.

Seriously, what is your defect on this issue.

You are defending war crimes and you are cheering on mass murder. This is sickening.

Go read the damn Geneva cenventions on COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT. Your total ignorance and wild bias is blinding me.

[still_one]

71. Let me ask you a question if you believe they intentially

targeted civillians, THEN WHY DON'T THEY BLOW THE WHOLE COUNTRY AWAY?

There is no justification for civillian deaths, and as much as Israel may have used a disporportinate amount of force with the killing and kidnaping of its soldiers, why is the outrage so much more when Israel is involved, but when other conflicts in Sudan, Checnya, the Iran/Iraq war, Serbia, Cambodia, the US invasion of Iraq, Rawandi, the Belgium Congo, Ethiopea, Sri Lanka, and so many other conflicts hardly raise an eyebrow?

[DistressedAmerican]

75. They are. They have bombed every part of the country north to south.

You have access to the news right?

I am opposed to ALL war crimes. How about you? Do you think the other war criomes somehow mitigate the response that this war crime should get? Really?

[itzamirakul]

144. I think the reason that the other countries that you mention,

specifically, in the Sudan, Rawandi, the Belgium Congo, and Ethiopia, no one in government really cares
because those are African, i.e. dark-skinned people and besides, if they just go ahead and kill each other off it makes it easier for the Europeans who are raping and pillaging those countries of their natural resources.

[twiterpatted]

87. They have not bombed the entire country, I do not defend war crimes

and I am not cheering mass murder. That you must make such outrageous statements, speaks to the lack of reason in your opinions and arguments and inability to see past your own anger and confusion.

Try again with out the blood and guts.

[DistressedAmerican]

96. They just showed a map on MTP of the locations bombed in Lebannon.

They were countrywide and HEAVY.

You need to educate yourself before you keep defending war crimes you are apparently ignorant of.

As long as you keep justifying Israeli war crimes you ARE cheering for more death and destruction.

You have defended the lie told to defend the crime and the crime itself. Do you defend war crimes out of your ignorance of the facts or do you just refuse to look at them?

[twiterpatted]

128. You saw a Map on TV.

Don't lecture me on FACTS,

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[twiterpatted]

139. I will no longer respond to a post that contains a personal insult or

or a statement that questions my motivations.


Nor will I respong to any post that uses as a Factual Source, Meet the Press.

[DistressedAmerican]

146. You HAVE NO SOURCES and you think you can just write off MTP?

You are worthless. Have a nice day. I am done talking to you about how you support reprehensible war criminals. You are full of shit on every level and yopu have NO facvts. You claim that Israel has not bombed the whole country and apparently that Meet the press is just making that up.

You are either here to dispupt or you are totally amoral (maybe both) and I have time for neither.

Go on defending war criminals. It makes me sick and I'm done with you and you factless and bullshit justifications for a slaughter that is clearly a war crime.

[twiterpatted]

157. Like I said, I will not respond to posts full of insults, name calling

are poor spelling. Furthermore, I will not respond to post that insist on MTP as a factual source.

Other then to say HAVE A NICE DAY, yourself.

[muriel_volestrangler]

148. They bombed northern Lebanon back on the 17th

right at the start:

Israel widens air strikes into northern Lebanon

Posted at 8:06pm on 17 Jul 2006

Israel has extended its air campaign to northernmost Lebanon, killing at least 14 people, including eight Lebanese soldiers in the port of Abdeh near Tripoli.

The raids follow a Hizbollah rocket attack that killed eight Israelis in Haifa. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has warned that the Haifa attack would have "far-reaching consequences".

More than 130 Lebanese have died since clashes with Israel began last week. At least 23 were killed in air raids in southern Lebanon on Sunday.
...
Israeli strikes early on Monday targeted Tripoli, Lebanon's second-largest city located in the north of the country, and Baalbek in the east.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/latest/200607172006/36864f61

So, yes, they've bombed the entire country - north, south, east and west.

[Mandate My Ass]

58. Well they're either too incompetent or too amoral to continue this charade

of self-defense when all they're hitting is civilians. If you can't see the criminality in this you're too far gone to discuss this. Buh bye.

[twiterpatted]

95. Run Away!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

74. I think they're fairly clearly intentionally killing civilians.

They have bombed hospitals, roads, grain silos, appartment buildings, etc, etc. This is not an even slightly effective way of killing active Hezbollah members

The only believable explanation is that Israel actively wants to make the civilian population of Lebanon suffer, to try and make them hostile to Hezbollah.

I think the evidence is strong enough to be reasonably confident that the IDF is intentionally killing civilians.

[still_one]

77. we do not agree

[Jazzgirl]

39. Boy, my ignore list is growing today.

[twiterpatted]

45. Explain your point of view to me without insulting me, I dare you!

[malaise]

54. The Israeli government is

beyond crazy. They are war criminals - fugging baby butchers.

[still_one]

94. what do you think about Sudan or Rawandi?

were you as passionate? Those are two modern day versions of genocide

[malaise]

101. I am passionately anti-war

wherever. In all cases we should examine the root causes - who benefits, etc. and all dominant and all complicit interests are war criminals, and the Israeli governemnt is made up of war criminals.

[still_one]

105. I respect you if you are anti-war

but by your logic there IS NOT ONE GOVERNMENT who is not made up of war criminals

I respectfully disagree with you on that point that the Israeli government is made up of war criminals, but that does NOT mean that I condone what happened. Both sides are wrong

[malaise]

109. Many many governments

have War criminals in their midst. We can agree to disagree re Israel but peace anyway.

[still_one]

117. It is important to keep a dialog even with those you may not agree with

or we are all doomed

[malaise]

119. Very true n/t

[checkmate1947]

17. Are you in a dream ???

or are you smoking something??? we already have a terrorist conventinal army on our border you idiot.

[twiterpatted]

20. Don't be shy, expand on your point, tell me more!!

[chimpymustgo]

21. Stop defending this wanton murder with LIES. This Israeli hack is SICK

and disgusting. This is indefensible. These people should not be allowed on American airwaves.

[still_one]

98. Jefferson would be proud of you

perhaps we should send death squads out against them?

[DistressedAmerican]

22. WAR CRIMES ARE NOT SELF DEFENSE.

They are BANNED under ALL circumstances. Stop defending war crimes. It is reprehensible and disgusting.

[twiterpatted]

27. You talking about the Crime committed by Hezbollah by hiding

behind disable kids for rocket launcher placement after Israel tells everyone to evacuate the area. That crime right?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[twiterpatted]

60. I think you jumped the shark with " you are soulless and sick"

What ever you do, don't have a semi-rational discussion with someone who may disagree with a few of your points.

[DistressedAmerican]

89. I Have Nothing But Condemnation For Those That Support War Crimes.

Nothing at all.

As long as you continue to justify lies told be a war criminal to cover his war crimes, I find you as reprehensible as the people giving the orders.

Your position is totally immoral. This is not a debate or a discussion. This is me telling you that you are totally immoral and that I find that sick.

So did you just sign up to defend war criminals or do you have any other issue? Just wondering if you are a single issue war crime defender.

[twiterpatted]

102. My position on the Israel war against Hezbollah in Lebanon is

back and forth. Part of what is going on is Evil and part is understandable. Unfortunately, I have not been able to use this board as a research tool due to the many who have such strong and and at times irrational points of view regarding the issue. Much of what I read on this board is garbage posts like yours laced with hate, insults, ignorance name calling.

I don't feel the need to prove by liberal credentials to you or anyone else on this board.

[Mandate My Ass]

104. well don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out

:hi:

[twiterpatted]

122. What????,, I'm here for the long haul friend. I love DU!!

[Lars39]

106. Nothing there to prove.

[twiterpatted]

126. Should I be asked to??

[sushi]

141. You really need to be quiet

What happened in Qana is indefensible! I think it is arrogant of Israel to order people in another country to leave their homes. How? Not everybody has cars.

[twiterpatted]

142. No, you need to be quiet. I have not posted that it is defensible,

I posted that it was not intentional, in response to those that suggest it is, as a response to those that have called Israel baby butchers.

Do you think Israel purposely murdered 37 children?

[muriel_volestrangler]

150. They purposely destroyed a building likely to have civilians in it

when they knew it didn't serve a military purpose. They probably thought it had some civilian adults in, and didn't care if it had children in. Their main purpose was to make southern Lebanon uninhabitable, and they didn't care if they killed children doing it.

So they didn't have the figure '37' in mind, but I do believe it fits the definition of 'murder', yes.

[twiterpatted]

153. Israel says it bombed a rocket lauching site 30 yards from the building

and that they have been dropping flyers for days telling the civilians to evacuate. They say it was an accident.

Hezbollah purposly sets its rocket lauching sites close to civilians to cause this type of collateral damage.

You say, " they bombed it on purpose knowning it served no military purpose and knowing lots if innocent civilians were inside". What do you think there motivation would be if this were true?

[itzamirakul]

11. What comes around, goes around...

Israel asked for more time before a cease-fire would take place because they wanted to "degrade" Hezbollah. Well, no one is saying it, but right now on Stephanopoulis's show it is coming across that Israel and the U.S. are the ones who have been surprised and degraded by Hezbollah's show of strength these past 3 weeks.

[twiterpatted]

16. Yeah, what ever, Hezbollah is pushed back 15 miles from the boarder

and are being pushed back further. This is the goal, and it will be accomplished.

[Lars39]

19. And don't you seem proud of it!

disgusting

[twiterpatted]

23. You don't know me, or what I feel. Argue the facts, if you can, and don't

make this personal.

[DistressedAmerican]

29. There is ONE Fact. Israel Is Committing War Crimes.

Massive disgusting inexcusable WAR CRIMES and you are defending them.

There is no defense. Just stop. You have sold your moral center if you can look at these obvious war crimes and do anything but condem them in the strongest terms.

Ypou make my head hurt with your support of these crimes.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. That's not a fact, but a judgment

[DistressedAmerican]

47. Keep defending WAR CRIMINALS.

Keep fucking defending collective punishment of the Lebonese peiple, thew wanton destruction of their entire civilian infrastructure and the rest of the war crimes.

You have no morals at all. You have sold your soul to the fascists.

Have fun with that. I find it sickening.

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. Are you talking to me?

I've been one of the loudest critics against the IDF actions on these boards.

That said, there is a difference between a fact and a judgment, and you should stick to that, or your arguments start to look shakey.

[DistressedAmerican]

92. Oops! No I Wasn't!

Misposted. My bad.

Moving too fast.

[twiterpatted]

40. What war crime? Are you saying Israel intentionally killed these kids?

[DistressedAmerican]

49. COLLECTIVE PUINISHMENT IS BANNED BY THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS.

Fucking look it up.

[rodeodance]

79. yes, Israel is engaging in collective punishment (mostly of innocents).

[Lars39]

30. People *are* dead because Israel bombed the airport

and the roads. As for the rest, your posts speak for you.

[checkmate1947]

44. until you learn

that war is personal, their is no point discussing it with you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Is it?

Last I checked, Israel tried to take Bin Jbail, a town 2 miles inside the Lebanese border, and the IDF got their asses handed to them. They withdrew from Bin Jbail, saying that they had "accomplished their mission." Needless to say, we've heard that before.

Are you now claiming that Israel holds all the land within 15 miles of the border. Because that would be breaking news. Please provide a link for this assertion.

[twiterpatted]

55. No, I am not claiming that. Israel is claiming that.

[Lars39]

61. no, *you* claimed that in post #16. Got a link for it?

[twiterpatted]

70. Nope, no link, I am completely without hard evidence madam prosecutor.

[alcibiades_mystery]

83. Oh, but you're the one claiming to go on facts!

You have no facts to back up this latest nonsense, so you turn to humor. Ah, well. At least your statements are now funny, although probably not in the way you imagine...

[twiterpatted]

107. Yes, i slipped, i posted something that i could not

back up with credible evidence, therefor everything that I have ever posted and everything that I will ever post will be without any credibility at all. you now have permission to ignore everything I have ever posted or will ever post due to the fact, opps there is that word again, that I was unable to prove with evidence, on this board, something that by everybody has forgotten, including me, was posted.

You got Me!

[alcibiades_mystery]

116. No, I'll just ignore this latest assertion

You said that Israel had pushed Hezbollah back 15 miles from the border. That is clearly not the case.

One thing is true enough though: you've made at least one claim that you cannot support. Whether you made others is up to those who have the time or inclination to follow out the rest of your claims. I am not one of those. It was satisfying enough to debunk this one false post. I'll leave the others for the others.

:rofl:

[twiterpatted]

121. Pow!!!!, you got me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

130. You're right

I did. You done been got.

It's funny to watch you try to make a joke out of it, but the truth is you been caught out there telling tall tales. How that impacts your credibility going forward is up to others. But there's really no salvaging this situation, however much sarcasm you try to deploy to pull your story-telling out of the debunked fire.

[twiterpatted]

147. Pow!!, a right,, Pow!!!, another right. Pow!! and a left.

Wow!!!, you are relentless.

Without tough truth tellers like you, this board would be lost.

Please remind me what I could not prove.

[alcibiades_mystery]

156. Jesus, is this fun!

In this post you ask me what you could not prove, while in your other post you admit to being wrong!

twiterpatted (170 posts)
Response to Reply #78
149. That was wrong, I should have said that Israel claimes that to be

there goal and the operations underway have the purpose of moving Hezbollah back within the 15 to 20 miles which would put Hezbollah out of rocket range.

You stated as an accomplished fact that which you now say is merely a projected goal. I challenged you on the factual nature of your claim, and you were unable to support it, something you readily admit in post #149. Shall I go on?

It's delicious, really. Try to stick to one personality per thread. Granted, the multiple personalities makes it more fun to grind your arguments into the dirt, but it also makes it more difficult for others to get a clear view of your bizarre incoherence.

:rofl:

[alcibiades_mystery]

78. LOL

Israel claims to hold all the land within 15 miles of its border? Wouldn't they then control Qana itself?

[twiterpatted]

149. That was wrong, I should have said that Israel claimes that to be

there goal and the operations underway have the purpose of moving Hezbollah back within the 15 to 20 miles which would put Hezbollah out of rocket range.

[itzamirakul]

93. The point is, Israel ASKED for more time to humiliate Hezbollah

BEFORE being willing to discuss a cease-fire and our government acquiesced and gave them that time.

Then things began not to go so well for Israel on the ground so they are more willing to talk cessation of shooting...but they DID have to prove that it is they who decide when to stop and not America. Israel is the only country in the world that does not have to agree to do anything it doesn't want to do.

They did this by bombing the UN outpost a few days ago and bombing the building in Qana this morning.

Because Bush and Rice caved in to Israeli demands for "more time" before discussing a ceasefire, I believe that the American government is partially responsible for this morning's deaths at Qana.

Be careful of what you ask for...you just might get it.

[JAbuchan08]

114. It's the one percent doctrine as long as one percent of the casualties

are to Hezbollah or Hezbollah related program activities these military actions are apparently justified :sarcasm:

[DistressedAmerican]

15. Absolute Bullshit.

He has NO evidence of the accusation at all.

"I wouldn't put it past them to havbe held those people there against their will" is a bald faced lie with no evidence at all. It was just spewed by a war criminal to try and keep the international community off his war criminal ass for a few more days, weeks or months of killing. IS that your goal too?

Why the hell are you defending the lies of war criminals?

Is that what DU's pro-Israeli crowd is willing to do at this point? Defending the open lies of a fucking repulsive war criminal?

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. Not only is there no evidence FOR the assertion, there is plenty contra

the assertion.

The various news services on hand have interviewed survivors, and not one has made any such claim. So, who ya gonna believe: the Israeli Ambassador, desperately trying to spin his way out responsibility for this slaughter, or your lying eyes...?

[Warren Stupidity]

28. You insult my humanity. nt.

[still_one]

42. Though not scientific, it seems that many on DU

believe that hezbollah is "just a militia", and would never think of blowing up civilian targets, such as a Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires in 1994?

Of course the attack which killed 287 Marines or the highjacking of the TWA airplane had nothing to do with terrorism



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1768904

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. Are Marines now civilians?

Interesting....

[still_one]

99. They were peace keepers under the UN

to maintain a truce

but perhaps you should examine the history of the event

[alcibiades_mystery]

111. Oh, I'm well aware of it

They were certainly peacekeepers, but they were not, strictly speaking, civilians, right?

Besides, the MNF was formed in direct agreement between the Lebanese government and the various participating states (US, France, Britain, and Italy).

[muriel_volestrangler]

154. By the time of the barracks bomb, the US was already shelling Lebanon

which doesn't really define them as 'peacekeepers'.

[Warren Stupidity]

65. Actually I think it is primarily a militia

organized in opposition to Israeli occupation of Lebanon. Has it been associated with terrorist attacks? Yes it has, but as we have seen today, so has the IDF. Both organizations are primarily military organizations. Both organizations have leaders who for whatever reason sometimes send their troops out to kill civilians.

[twiterpatted]

76. Are you saying Israel and Hezbollah are equal in their Evil?

[shadowknows69]

84. No, right now Israel is more evil.

n/t

[still_one]

100. I have an idea, present that as the Democratic platform

I can see it now, Israel is worse than Hezbollah

Sounds like a good campaign slogan

I am sure the American public will jump on that bandwagon

[Mandate My Ass]

85. The civilian body count on Israel's tally sheet

is about 10 times higher than that of Hezbollah. Make of that what you will.

[twiterpatted]

129. What does it mean to you?, What is your point?

[Warren Stupidity]

86. I don't know how to equate evil.

I am saying that it is obvious and now beyond honest debate that the IDF is engaged in a terror campaign against the civilian population of Lebanon. If conducting a terror campaign against civilians makes an organization a terrorist organization then the IDF is one of those. I am saying that if you are not applying the same standards to all participants here then you are not engaged in honest discourse.

[shadowknows69]

56. Wake the fuck up already

I haven't seen one picture of destroyed hizbollah rockets only dead civilians. If the NSA found out a terror cell was set up in your neighbor hood I take it you'd have no problem with the air force leveling the whole area to get them? Even if it killed your children?

[twiterpatted]

66. I would like a little notice, like the millions of flyer's dropped from

the sky or radio announcement, and all the other things that Israel did to get the people out of the war zone.

[shadowknows69]

81. Oh like bomb most of the escape paths

and there have been documented attacks on people fleeing including relief convoys and Red Cross vehicles. You're defending atrocity of the highest order. Don't waste your time trying to defend it.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Opusnone]

9. They're really pushing this psy-ops argument

to paraphrase:
"I know if you could, you'd be on my side."
This suggests that the public sees the Lebanese government as afraid of their own people and those who defend them.

Where is the Lebanese military? Are they really so small?

[chimpymustgo]

37. What a racist bastard. Lying about how the Lebanese raise their children

to become terrorists. This Ambassador Gillerman is lower than pond scum. Lying, lying lying...now the "email" from the dead israeli soldier claiming Hezbollah presence near UN outpost. Now lying about Kofi Annan. More lies: we don't target children. LIES LIES LIES!!!

Has this man NO SOUL?

[shadowknows69]

62. No child is a terrorist

and no child should die like one. If Israel wants to fight hizbollah they need to get thier pussie asses on the ground and fight like warriors.

[chimpymustgo]

69. It is a very cowardly "war" they are fighting, this massacre of innocents.

I am completely done with these war criminals. Will the world not STOP them???

[KoKo]

97. I saw him and felt he was mouthing the NeoCon script word for word.

It's hard for some of us who are trying to be fair about this...to have watched him and not felt revulsion. When he used a George Bush phrase that Israel is trying to bring peace and stability to the world by routing out terrorists ...I felt sick and when he said we want a "prosperous Lebanon with an "entreprenuerial spirit" I thought of how many times Bush uses that word...and I thought "NeoCon" script. They all talk from the same page. There is no difference.

[Zodiak]

143. Seriously, I am trying to be fair

But the last three weeks have nearly made that impossible. I cannot take the lies, the genocidal rhetoric ("all civilians in S. Lebanon are terrorist sympathizers) and the deliberate and wholesale killing of civilians).

And I cannot help but to notice that what Bush wants is what the Likkud government wants, and both of them want the price to be paid in blood. Not only do I not support that, I vehemently oppose it.

[liberaliraqvet26]

35. They have their backs to the wall....

and are desperate.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoldenOldie]

145. I question why the Mossaud not being used ?

The Israeli Mossaud along with the NSA or CIA who has a large presence in Israel seem to be oddly missing from all this blood-letting and destruction???

The Mossaud has proven to be very effective in quietly tracking down and bringing to justice the individual Nazi killers/torturers and colaboratores who had fled and hid throughout the world. The Mossaud had no difficulty in quietly tracking down and avenging the deaths of their Israeli Olympiads. Why then are they not using the Mossaud and the Israeli Intelligence combined with their NSA/CIA counterparts utilizing all their tools and abilities to quietly take out the Hezzbulah leaders. Could it be that they need the death and bloodshed of innocents and the total destruction of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon to get their full fledged World War III on.

The Bush administration has replaced all of our major investigative intelligence agencies such at The Justice Department, FBI, CIA, etc., etc, with their extremely incompetant but agreeable and plyable cronies to do what they are told.

If anyone has taken the time to read their PNAC, it appears that their roadmap is on target. Just requires the gullibility of Americans and the rest of the world.

[question everything]

155. They probably did, just as the PLO did back in 1982

When people in Israel were shelled, they were encouraged to move out of their homes to safer area further from the border.

But people in Lebanon are being used as human shield. You have people who value suicide bombers then life; you have people who dress their children with best with explosives. You have people who purposefully put their children in harm's way and then manipulate bleeding hearts like DUers and the cowards in Europe.

[rasputin1952]

158. Locking

Flames are licking at the feet in this thread.

While it is fine to be angry at some events, it is entirely something else when gallons of fuel get tossed into the fire.