NEVER FORGET!!! Bush wants to put Americans away without a trial!!!!

[originalpckelly]

I know that world events are very dramatic at this time, but unfortunately what is happening in our own nation won't make the news until it is finished.

"WASHINGTON - U.S. citizens suspected of terror ties might be detained indefinitely and barred from access to civilian courts under legislation proposed by the Bush administration, say legal experts reviewing an early version of the bill.

SNIP

According to the draft, the military would be allowed to detain all "enemy combatants" until hostilities cease. The bill defines enemy combatants as anyone "engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners who has committed an act that violates the law of war and this statute."

Legal experts said Friday that such language is dangerously broad and could authorize the military to detain indefinitely U.S. citizens who had only tenuous ties to terror networks like al Qaeda.

SNIP

Scott L. Silliman, a retired Air Force Judge Advocate, said the broad definition of enemy combatants is alarming because a U.S. citizen loosely suspected of terror ties would lose access to a civilian court — and all the rights that come with it. Administration officials have said they want to establish a secret court to try enemy combatants that factor in realities of the battlefield and would protect classified information."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060728/ap_on_go_pr_wh/detainee_rights

We must, must absolutely work together to prevent this from happening. If we don't, there WILL NOT BE A WAY TO SOLVE IT!!! Inaction will lead to the first steps of true tyranny. DON'T, DON'T forget about this! Don't let it fall below the fold. You will not be able to change anything if this comes to pass.

[aquart]

1. It's been the goal since the first minute of the Patriot Act.

Bush's intent has always been to disappear his opposition.

[originalpckelly]

2. This is on a whole different level from the Patriot Act...

sending people to prison without a trial and for an indefinite period is one of the charges against King George the Third in the Declaration of Independence:
"For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:"

BIG DEAL!!!

[smirkymonkey]

9. How long before the definition of "terrorist" includes those of us

who are liberal, non-christian and speak out against the crimes of the Bush Admistration. This is setting a precedent for throwing all "undesirables" in prison without a trial. Why can't people see that this is how Fascism always starts? This is serious, people.

[originalpckelly]

15. I know...it is deeply troubling that these people would even consider it..

they are either really evil (I mean like Hitler) or very sure of their own piety. One way or another this represents an upping of the ante.

[Minnesota_Lib]

22. Bush definition: "You are either with me or with the terrorists."

[cosmik debris]

3. Old News Ho Hum

How long has it been since Jose Padilla was locked up. Do you think he will ever be released?

Face it. We live in a dictatorship. Until you are ready to storm the Bastille, just calm down and get used to it.

[originalpckelly]

5. He is now being tried for "his crimes"...

after the DOJ charged him with crimes other than the ones they claimed to be holding for, and did specifically to avoid judicial review of the case (which would almost certainly be decided for Padilla.)

The idea here is that it would be impossible to make a challenge to this law in the Supreme Court because the law specifically states no civilian or military court may be accessed by people being tried. That is actually worse than Jose Padilla's situation.

[cosmik debris]

8. He is awaiting trial

He may get a trial, he may not. But it is a certainty that he can not get a fair trial. And it is probable that if acquitted, he will be detained anyway. 4 years without habeas corpus and no end in sight. Why should we believe that it will get worse than that?

[originalpckelly]

10. I am sorry...should rephrase it...

you are completely correct. The kicker is that he was captured on American soil and he was unarmed.

[cosmik debris]

14. I too am on American soil

And I am usually unarmed. That is why I say it can't get worse for me. Either we take to the streets or we relax and get used to it. But complaining about our Dictator and his Congress won't really do any good. Have you got a plan?

[originalpckelly]

16. Let's roll. DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!!

But how the hell do we do it, in a non-violent way? (I will only use violence to defend myself, I absolutely refuse to be violent without a violent provocation.)

[cosmik debris]

18. There is my point

Until we are ready to take up arms against our own government, we have very limited options.

We MUST follow through on our hope of a free election someday. But right now, they count the votes, so they win.

We must pursue the legislative reforms, but Bush has decreed that he is not subject to the laws of the legislative branch.

We must hope that at some point he will yield to judicial review, but that hardly seems likely when he can coerce the legislature to validate his illegal or unconstitutional activity.

Frankly I believe the only reason we haven't already been arrested is because we are just little piss ants whining in our little DU closet. We have no impact and there is no reason to bother his Imperial Highness with small potatoes like us.

PLEASE NOTE: I DO NOT ADVOCATE TAKING UP ARMS AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT.

[smirkymonkey]

7. How long before those who speak out against the Bush Adminis-

tration are thrown in prison with no trial? And people complain when we make comparisons to Nazi Germany.

[acmejack]

13. They already have the evidence!

Your posts on this board, they are forever! Rest assured that they have them neatly cataloged and when the appropriate time comes they will be used to justify putting us away. Hopefully we will all be at the same camp.

[smirkymonkey]

21. See ya in prison, comrade!

:hi:

[bdamomma]

17. we most definitely do live in dictatorship

storm the Bastille, the question is how bad will it have to get before we do????????????? nothing will be done until this touches us personally. I can't stand how everyone is lying silent on this situation. we have a dumb ass pResident who is a filthy coward and frat boy, what we can't challenge him??????? sorry I am not trying to offend anyone, I am just pissed.

[Lars39]

4. k and r.....this went way under the radar.

[Opusnone]

6. THAT's why Americans aren't in the streets!

At least I want to believe that.

I'm pretty sure they're not all busy LEARNING anything.

[liberal N proud]

11. It will seal the deal for the bu$h regime and the PNAC

The police state will be in place and they can then proceed with the totalitarian rule that they so desire.

[originalpckelly]

12. I am glad you get the picture. That is the precise reason this it so scary

People will be forbidden from the courts, so it will be impossible to file a lawsuit.

[liberal N proud]

24. Hell, the next step would be just to close the courts.

[blonndee]

19. Can we call Gov. Dean's office tomorrow and see if

they're going to make the rounds on this? I think I will. I guess it couldn't hurt. I'd like to know what the Dems are going to do about this.

[teryang]

20. Loose use of terminology - enemy combatant is a POW

Illegal enemy combatant - is a detainee, subject to criminal prosecution, once that determination of status has been made. He is subject to prosecution in the territorial jurisdiction wherein the offense was commited or subject to trial by military tribunal of the signing party.

By jurisdictional definition, a detainee is a foreign national taken into custody due to the exigencies of war. A detainee is a protected status under the Geneva Conventions.

By definition an American, is subject to the courts of the party home state and is neither a detainee nor an illegal enemy combatant. If such a person aids and abets an enemy of the United States or takes unlawful actions against the United States, he is a criminal guilty of treason, sabatoge or like offense and subject to prosecution in Federal and/or State Courts.

Wartime or peacetime, there is absolutely no legal basis for any other jurisdiction to try an American for crimes against the United States. Constitutionally, Congress does not have the power to create such a jurisdiction.

[longship]

23. This can't be Constitutional!

Unfortunately, it will take somebody with legal standing to challenge this abortion of a law. That will mean that somebody's gonna have to disappear.

Please Democrats, we need to stop these insane thugs.

[OneBlueSky]

25. that's why they're spending your tax dollars . . .

(more accurately, your kids' and grandkids' tax dollars) to have KBR construct those lovely new detention camps to supplement the scores of camps already waiting to be filled . . . they're certainly planning something big, that's for sure . . .

[midnight]

26. Another reason to Impeach.

What the hell is going on in Wahsington. Are they all being drugged?