"The male ethos...a culture of intimidation, authority, power and control"

[omega minimo]

And war. Here is a creative protest of the "the insensitive 'old boys' network." With commentary and the AP article below. It must take a healthy :bounce: :bounce: or heart or brain or liver or other human organ to face up to-- and face down-- the "male ethos" "culture of intimidation, authority, power and control" at any level. Or every level.

And now for something completely different

New Zealand lawyer Rob “Ms. Alice” Moodie walks out of High Court
in Wellington on Monday wearing a two-piece suit with ankle-length skirt
along with lace stockings and a diamond brooch.
   

And now for something completely different
by Herb Ruhs, MD, Unknown News      July 28, 2006

http://www.unknownnews.org/060728a-DrRuhs.html

I just read an AP story about someone really after my heart. Associated Press reports on the protest of "high profile" New Zealand lawyer, Rob Moodie, who "arrived at Wellington's High Court on Monday in a navy blue woman's suit complete with diamond brooch and lace-topped stockings over his hairy legs." His protest was reportedly intended to "highlight the insensitive 'old boys' network of New Zealand's judiciary." Hey, we have the same kind of judiciary in this country. I suspect however, that in our more barbaric version of this infliction Mr Moodie would be spending time in county jail with a contempt of court charge. If not right away, merely because of the costume, then right after telling the court as Moodie did, "I will now, as a lawyer, be wearing women's clothing." and adding that he wished to be addressed formally in court as "Ms. Alice." Our troglodyte judges tend to be hyper-reactive to this sort of thing.

<snip>

Sure, I encounter female assholes. Females are human too. The likes of Diane Feinstein, Condoleezza Rice, Margaret Thatcher and Ann Coulter really give the gender a black eye, but these are women responding to the domineering male nature of their environments. I just consider them twisted sisters.

In general, women do just about everything that involves dealing with other humans much, much better than us guys, gay or not. How much more happy are you to be stopped for a traffic infraction by a female cop, to deal with a female judge, to be treated by a female physician, than to deal with random men in such situations? I know I am.

But the central problem seems to be men with power. Michel Moore covered this area nicely in Stupid White Men. Not that it is just white men that are the problem, but along with Mr Moore, I agree that they are most of the problem due to the success of the ideology of white supremacy over these last few thousand years. But it is a trap to consider "race" as part of the problem. The core issue is male domination both of women and other "nice" men.
So to be politically correct all men need to be targeted in any proposed solution to the problem. How about ending male suffrage before it kills us all?

:bounce: :bounce:

New Zealand lawyer sports skirt to court
Associated Press      July 25, 2006

WELLINGTON, New Zealand — A bald, mustachioed lawyer turned up at court wearing a skirt and blouse and toting a purse to protest a lack of care and sensitivity among New Zealand's male-dominated judiciary, a newspaper reported Tuesday. Rob Moodie, 67, arrived at Wellington's High Court on Monday in a navy blue woman's suit complete with diamond brooch and lace-topped stockings over his hairy legs, The Dominion Post reported.

"I will now, as a lawyer, be wearing women's clothing," Moodie said. He said he wants the court to address him as "Ms. Alice" — and that his wife and three children support his protest. His attire, he insisted, is to highlight the insensitive "old boys' network" of New Zealand's judiciary.

"My confidence in the male ethos is zilch. It's a culture of intimidation, authority, power and control," the high-profile lawyer said. Moodie said that although he is heterosexual he was born with an innate understanding of the female gender.

His protest was prompted by frustration over a long-running case involving a farming couple held responsible for a bridge built by the army on their land that collapsed, killing a beekeeper. He told The Dominion Post that the "last straw" was last month's Court of Appeal ruling that ordered the couple — who have already sold their farm to fund their legal efforts — to pay the army $6,200 in costs.

[Cerridwen]

1. Thanks for posting this.

Any way to contact "Ms. Alice" to tell him how much I appreciate his efforts and his family's support?

Any one finds a contact source, please let me know.

Thanks. Off to google.

[omega minimo]

3. Inspiration from Down Under

Hello Cerridwen :toast:

The author at the link may have a contact. Let us know what you find. :hi:

[bloom]

2. That is quite a picture.

He looks pretty good in a skirt, really.

[omega minimo]

4. Tasteful and professional

:thumbsup:

[hfojvt]

5. I cannot hold to that generality

many of the evil human resources people I have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with are women. Many of my women co-workers have been very childish and irrational. I know that sounds like a stereotype, but when co-workers need to play these teasing games and when one is grumbling angrily to herself about something and another starts yelling and throwing things around - that's kinda bizarre.

Just the other day I was swimming laps at the pool and as I was resting by the wall these two 13 year old girls start talking about me "you like him, don't you?" "No". You expect that with teenagers, but I got the same thing from twenty somethings in college. That has been my experience. That I am going about my business, trying to live my life and some girls feel the need to go out of their way and remind me, just in case I happened to forget, that I am not very attractive.

I have had women bosses that were not that good either and didn't care for Moore's book, but I did like Gilman's distinction between male values of combat and female values of cooperation. Or was that Lakoff? I could not find a quote.

[omega minimo]

6. Yes, the writer made that point in his piece: the individual as distinct

from "the male ethos" or the "insensitive 'old boy' power structure." It is the generality that we have to acknowledge, face and address before it kills us all-- whether it's beekeepers dealing with homicidal Army Corps types or genocidal, WW3 Buschco. types.

Maybe the aggression-- and much of the hostility to even acknowledging this-- is caused by hormones.

[Karenina]

10. Wilhelm Reich

had some excellent observations in his tome, "Little Man."

[omega minimo]

11. Thanks Karenina. Echoed also in the recent "Authoritarian" topic

Interesting that this male commentary on male power goes mostly unremarked............ if women say this, a rollicking snarkfest ensues......................

If folks wake up to the game being played on all of us, will it help inspire creative solutions? Paradigm shift?

[idgiehkt]

12. women are skilled psychological terrorists.

I'm not sure how much of what we do cooperation wise is virtue and how much is because of being smaller and weaker. I have known some b*tches in my time and my preference is to work in a mixed gender environment or alone. Working in an all female environment, for me, is torture.

[omega minimo]

13. one

despot with short guy complex can skillfully psychologically terrorize a lot of people all by himself, too.

[hfojvt]

15. usually not by themselves

many people are not physically afraid of the Hitlers, Kim Jong Ils or George Bush's, but they have their private bodyguards and a structure that 'legally' supports them. Any one or three or 30 people who try to challenge the system will face the power of an entire nation.

But again, I am not sure if the problem is our system, because I feel that things would be a heck of alot better if a different man had been sworn in as President on Jan. 2001 and if Senator Wellstone was still alive and in office or if Senator Mondale had won and Senators Carnahan and Cleland had won, etc.

We would still be living in an unequal patriarchy with a pandemic of crime, rape, violence, materialism, racism, sexism, classism, homophobia, etc., but we, and the world, would be better off in thousands of ways without a radical change in the structure of either government or society.

[omega minimo]

16. Yes, they're bullies. The individual ones don't have "private bodyguards"

but are "supported" by those they bully into submission. If you've never met or worked for one, consider yourself lucky.

"things would be a heck of alot better if a different man had been sworn in as President on Jan. 2001..."

Yes, esp. because the elected president was not sworn in.

So-- on top of "living in an unequal patriarchy with a pandemic of crime, rape, violence, materialism, racism, sexism, classism, homophobia" we have the INSANITY of a two-term unelected administration that is bent on mutually assured destruction on a global scale and the disassemblement of the American government; the INSANITY of a public and press that is going along with it. :evilfrown:

"...but we, and the world, would be better off in thousands of ways without a radical change in the structure of either government or society."

Agreed. And yet, because of the INSANITY mentioned above and the threat of mutually assured destruction, it is imperative that we reexamine-- if not radically change-- the structure of government and society. Because all these dots are connected.

Facing down the bullies on every level is imperative. Trying to bully bullies into submission leads only to more bullies, more mindless violence, more destruction.


:spray: hfojvt :hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. That kind of treatment is distressing, but rest assured that

there are also men who feel compelled to make disparaging comments to each other about every woman who doesn't fit their stereotype of beauty.

I spent my high school years being one of the "jokes" that boys would tease each other with. "You could always take Lydia to the prom (pig snort)." That sort of thing. It was so bad that when a boy visiting from another school asked me to dance at a party, I thought he was making fun of me.

Some DU women have written about the cruelties they suffer from strangers for being overweight or otherwise outside the bounds of conventional attractiveness.

So, as the bumpersticker says, Mean People Suck, and the meanness is common to both genders.

[omega minimo]

7. It's a male writer commenting on a male lawyer commenting on male power

:popcorn:

[omega minimo]

8. "keeping women from power is essential................."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1759660&mesg_id=1761252

[omega minimo]

9. Military Industrial Complex

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1760612



Kicking this for Monday morning because here are clues for why and how we need creative NEW forms for dialogue and demanding representation & accountability. Now.

[Karenina]

14. Kick!

:kick:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. I Guess Mr. Herb Ruhs Has No Problem Spewing Piles Of Sexist Garbage LOL

"The likes of Diane Feinstein, Condoleezza Rice, Margaret Thatcher and Ann Coulter really give the gender a black eye, but these are women responding to the domineering male nature of their environments."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Awwww, it's not the poowr wittle womens fault, it's all because they're around men. :eyes: Are you kidding me? He truly thinks that?

"In general, women do just about everything that involves dealing with other humans much, much better than us guys"

Again, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Yeah.... Ok... That's not too misguided or sexist or anything.

"How much more happy are you to be stopped for a traffic infraction by a female cop, to deal with a female judge, to be treated by a female physician, than to deal with random men in such situations?"

Are you kidding me? Has this guy ever dealt with a female cop? I've found them to be Overwhelmingly brutal and impersonable. Female judges? Holy cow I've seen female judges that struck absolute terror into anyone coming before them. I'd rather be in front of a male judge any day based on my experience, but even more than that just want to be in front of a fair one. But that most definitely doesn't rely on gender, and based on my experience some female judges can be downright terrifying in their strictness and coldness.

Female physicians? I'm ok with them. I've had some really good ones and some really crappy ones. Same as male Dr's. No real preference there either way, as long as they're sincere.

I'm really not even sure what the point of this whole thread was supposed to be, since I'm sure it was intended for more than to just provoke gender wars. I'm sure it was done with good intent but I just can't help laughing at the absurdity of Mr. Herb Ruhs and his assessments.

[omega minimo]

19. come on by

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1780010&mesg_id=1781302

[EFerrari]

20. Why does this thread still have only four votes?

lol

:)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. Maybe Cause The Premise Of Mr Herb Ruhs Is Absurd And Not Worthy Of Votes.

[omega minimo]

22. Premature Rejectication

:wow:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Do You Mean Regurgitation? Thats What Dictionary.com Asked Me If You Meant

:spray:

[EFerrari]

24. Or, Monday Monday.

:)

[Odin2005]

25. Anyone who thinks women are inheirently better then men are full of shit.

I think I need to remind people that many of the notion people use to blast us men as evil come from the sexist notions of women being the "fairer sex". Women can be just as intimidating and athoritarian as men, it's just that women use words instead of fists.

[omega minimo]

26. Agreed. These men blast the "ethos" the "culture" NOT" men as evil"

There is no attempt here, by the two men quoted, or by the OP, to say "women are inherently better than men" or "blast men as evil." Will you hang in there with me Odin2005? I thought the comments coming from men-- and the creative protest-- would help SHOW the difference between criticizing 1. the system of male-dominant power and 2. criticizing individual males by virtue of being male.

The OP quotes criticism of an "ethos," "a culture," not a gender.

It's like a fishbowl. Do fish know they're in a fishbowl? There's girl and boy fish in the fishbowl. Do the fish notice when the fluid they're floating around in and breathing becomes more and more and more toxic? That is the point we are at. That is why, IMHO, it is worth it to try to show that what is killing us IS the "male ethos" "old boys network" or the John Dean "authoritarians" or the Abrahamic religious fundamentalists. We are all in the same fishbowl, dude. And the toxic sludge is about to end life as we know it for this whole planet.

So it's not too offensive, I hope, to suggest that there are some GENERAL differences b/w male ethos and female ethos. As you say, "women use words instead of fists."

Which is in synch with the ONLY comment in the quotes about comparing women and men: "In general, women do just about everything that involves dealing with other humans much, much better than us guys, gay or not. "

Communication. "Dealing with other humans." "Words instead of fists."

The fists have gone nuclear, friend Odin, and these are generalizations, and I never assume men are "evil" or automatically ambassadors of the "male ethos." I OP'd the article b/c I thought it might help people (and SOME DU men) get the difference and understand that criticism of toxic male power structures is not criticism of them.

:hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. "There is no attempt here... to say women are inherently better than men"

Hmmmm, maybeeeeeee you're right. We must've looked too deeply into the enigmatic quote below. I mean, it wasn't really direct and it was elusive as to what it was trying to portray, so maybe those of us that felt that way were just confused and reading into it too much. Shame it wasn't more direct in it's meaning, then we wouldn't have been sooooo confused as to what it was trying to say. I pasted it below.. damn elusive enigmatic quote that it is:

"women do just about everything that involves dealing with other humans much, much better than us guys"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[omega minimo]

28. Sub Thread Deleted

"women do just about everything that involves dealing with other humans much, much better than us guys"

COMMUNICATION. Try it sometime.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. Will You Stop Your REPEATED Sub Thread Deleted Garbage? It's Childish.

You said no one said that. I showed you were in fact misguided, as it was pretty plain to see it had been said. Don't take it to such heart, Omega, that some people can't stand sexist garbage.

And for the record, that quote isn't intelligent communication, it is sheer stupidity. Everything spoken, written, or portrayed with meaning is in some way communication. Whether it is intelligent communication is a different story entirely. in this case, Mr. herb ruhs communicated sexist crap, utter stupidity and sheer ignorance.

[omega minimo]

31. Mind Fuck Deleted

THEREISNOTIMEFORTHISBULLSHIT

:hi: :puke:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. Seriously, Is That All You're Capable Of In Debate?

"THEREISNOTIMEFORTHISBULLSHIT"

And yet you seem to invest so much time in propagating it.

[omega minimo]

36. Mass Debate

:yoiks:

[htuttle]

29. A "culture of intimidation, authority, power and control"

Well, that pretty much describes male mammal politics no matter what species you look at.

We are really not anywhere as civilized as we imagine ourselves to be. Most human conversations, especially in the traditional business world since it deals with 'territory' and 'resources', can best be conducted down on all fours and barking.

[omega minimo]

32. excuse me while I mark my territory

miaaaaooooooow :rofl:

[htuttle]

33. Can you think of a BETTER way of describing office politics?

And just think about international politics!

If this is news to anyone, they've been watching too much Star Trek. We're actually on The Planet of The Apes.

(flings feces)

(throws grass up into the air)

[omega minimo]

37. A new twist on The Peter Principle

:evilgrin:


"If this is news to anyone, they've been watching too much Star Trek. We're actually on The Planet of The Apes."

Fave Star Trek moment:

(flagbearing caveman to JT Kirk)

"FreeDOM! You use our Sacred Word!"

:patriot:

[Karenina]

43. Didja ever watch

WILD ANIMAL KINGDOM??? I was a horrified kid seeing the lion stalk all the cubs that were not his and kill them, no matter what kind of fight the lioness put up. If she got in the way he'd kill her too.

This planet has a fuckin weird idea of "reality." It's sad, we who are supposedly able to think on a higher level could really be so much better than we are...

[omega minimo]

44. the mad rush to WW3 makes us all look like dumb meat

:thumbsdown:

[Tsiyu]

34. Kudos to Ms. Alice

The overwhelming numbers of violent crimes - deadly violence - are committed by males.

Around 25% of women wil be raped in their lifetime. Are only 1% of men committing all of these rapes? Or is it that our culture allows this to happen and the percentage of rapists in our society is much higher?

I agree with you omega, that we need to examine our roles as men and women. Sometimes white people want to make fun of Islam for having backwards ideas about women, but a history of Europe and the British Isles - and Christianity in general - reveals a long history of Caucasian oppression of women. White people have inherited an abiding legacy of denying women full participation and justice in their societies.

We can attack the Taliban all we like for their treatment of women, but it's past time to see that the male-dominated power structure in our own corner of the world (and in New Zealand's as well) deserves some serious examination.

[omega minimo]

38. It has us (again) at the brink of destruction

"it's past time to see that the male-dominated power structure in our own corner of the world (and in New Zealand's as well) deserves some serious examination."

The Follow The Bully paradigm also programs people to be sheeple, not question authoritarians, not stand up for their country and planet-- and rush like lemmings toward the cliff of mutally assured destruction.

(rhetorical) Why not try a different way of communicating/organizing/leading/surviving? :think:


BHG :hi:

[Tsiyu]

39. Indeed it does

When a society allows all of its priorities to be "power" priorities: war as big business, sports, violence, political and social domination of minorities and women, profit as sole motivation for growth, prisons as answers to all social problems or as legal racism; and fails to build on "nurturing" priorities: protecting the environment, education, health care, daycare for babies and the elderly, safe sidewalks, mental health support, peaceful resolutions to problems, libraries, equal protection under law, equality for ALL in suffrage and in politics; that culture is destined to fail.

We need all of us, and all of our input and all of our talents and all of our concern.

Change is due, to answer that rhetorical question you posed, and it may just be that like the suffragettes at the turn of the century, we women must rise up and force this male culture to get it right for a change.

kudos OM :hi:

[omega minimo]

40. SO well put

:yourock:

[Tsiyu]

41. Back atcha omega minimo

:yourock:

Trying to open the eyes of our culture is a brave act. Some will never get it, but if your OP makes even one man think about how he treats the concerns of the women around him, it's worth it.

[omega minimo]

42. We're goin for the whole Dominance Paradigm

that impacts men and women. That threatens our common existence. That disassembles our nation and keeps people stunned and bullied into submission. That creates perpetual war for perpetual profit.

If we face that, maybe we'll treat each other better, too.

[Tsiyu]

45. That paradigm that says Might makes right?

Yeah. I'm all for gutting that one. Let's crucify it.

I've been mocking the hell out of "Macho men" lately.

They're not amusing in the least. It seems there is a significant percentage of males all over this planet who believe that they are, indeed, GAWD hisself, that their genitals are Guinness record material and that all other men and all women and children must bow down and worship their freakin' holiness.

But every last one of the pathetic scum is going to die and rot, too. There's nothing "divine" about any of them. Their victims are legion.

These are the men who buy sex with four-year-olds, who make their money selling young girls and selling bombs and telling us all who is "moral" and making excuses for the innocents they kill in the name of the SUPREME MALENESS.

I wish they could all be knocked off their delusional thrones and that some sense could be knocked INTO them.

oh, I know there are rotten women as well. But the pain and damage and heartache we see is mostly MALE CREATED, and if MALES REFUSE TO STOP OTHER MALES I'm going to mock ALL of them.

I'm sick of bullies and I'm damned sick of COWARDS. You can stand up for what you believe. Whatever the "other boys" think about you is really insignificant. If you've got nothing to eat, no job, no Constitution left, what the hell good does it do you - you or your self-professed MANLY GAWD - to be "accepted" by the very people who took those things away?

I want MEN to stand up and fight for what is true and fair and real. I want them to stop making excuses for the men who fuck everything up. I want them to stop making nice to those who abuse all of us.

Not gonna happen, but that's my dream. Until then, I'm going to make fun of every Macho man I see. I'm going to shame every last one.