Bolton: Israeli deaths are different from Lebanese deaths

[deminks]

The Washington note reporting that this sentence was in Bolton's statement at his Senate committee hearings, but was removed at the last minute.

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/

At his Thursday Senate confirmation hearings, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee majority staff passed out Ambassador Bolton's "official statement". In that opening statement, there appeared a controversial and provocative sentence that asserted that Israelis and Lebanese who become innocent casualties in this war are not morally equivalent. His argument is that Israeli innoncents are more important than Lebanese innocent casualties because the Israelis were attacked by Hezbollah.

The sentence read:

But it is a mistake to ascribe a moral equivalence to civilians who die as the direct resulte of malicious terrorist acts, the very purpose of which are to kill civilians, and the tragic and unfortunate consequence of civilian deaths as a result of military action taken in self-defense.

Now, some have misunderstood what happened next. My surprise did not come when John Bolton read a script that was different than the one in hand. What happened was that just as John Bolton was beginning to read his statement, a new statement was distributed -- with only this line of text removed.

(end snip)

This was before the Qana murders. I also hope someone will ask him how he feels about this now.

[chimpymustgo]

1. God have mercy on these racist murdering thugs. Bolton is a disgusting ass

How in the world can the Senate confirm this scum?

[no_hypocrisy]

2. So much for the maxim of death being the Great Equalizer . . . hateful man

[malaise]

3. Did you notice the difficulty Bush had

saying the word 'killed' yesterday when he was 'regretting' the Qana slaughter? These criminals must be stopped.

[Mandate My Ass]

4. What a piece of filth he is

Our children are precious, theirs are expendable. The monsters are in charge, here and in Israel. :cry:

[JCMach1]

5. No doubt he will be approvedwithout dissent

:(

[xchrom]

6. at least not with enough dissent.

it's disapointing isn't it?

we can't even keep bolton -- the mutant tapeworm -- out of the u.n.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[midnight]

34. I'm constantly thinking I'm understanding these pieces of info. that

are posted here at DU, but I cant say that I follow the Bush family support of Hitler during WWII, and now supporting the Israelis through warring with the Lebanese. One more twist-Kissing all the Oil barons in the Arab region. I guess it has noting to do with political ties, and more to do with a financial deal. You can learn so much about economics from the Bush family.

[KharmaTrain]

8. Do We Need To Keep Scorecards?

I expect a wingnut like Bolton to think Americans and Israelis are superior to A-rabs and Lebanese...but I see a lot of body counting and comparison in all arguments about what's going on. On both sides civilians are being targeted and killed. As long as Hezbollah missiles can fly down on Israeli towns, Israel is going to go after where it suspects those missiles have been launched from. Yes, Qana was a tragedy and war does such things. All deaths are wrong...especially in this kind of conflict that appears to be headed for yet another stalemate that will set the scene for the next round of violence.

Unfortunately Bolton stands in the way of a solution. There needs to be an honest broker who can ensure Israel does have real security on its Northern border and create dialogue with all parties to move to a possible round of negotiations in setting up at least an uneasy truce. Until the boosh regime is removed, don't expect the US to be able to be of any use...other than arms supplier and profiteer.

[itzamirakul]

36. I used to think that the removal of Bushco from the WH would mean

a return to normalcy, but no more. Not after the recent show that the Democrats put on in total support of Israel's actions in this crisis. Here we are, the party of the people, the fair-minded party,the reasoning, logical party, now taking a hard right stance in favor of one nation over another. Where was the voice of reason in opposition to the hard right? The leaders of our Democratic party have joined the hard right. There is not one iota of difference between the two.

What needs to be removed is the influence of the Lobby and of the hardline Israeli government from control of our government. I suspect that when Americans finally wake up and see that this is true, it will be too late to do anything about it. After all, it has taken them 6 years to wake up and start asking questions about 911. Questions that should have been asked on 912.

[KharmaTrain]

37. Democrats Have Always Helped Ease ME Tensions

Look at Carter's work with Camp David or Clinton's on-going dialogue that brought a cold peace, but peace nonetheless, to the region and within eyeshot of a settlement. Sadly outside forces with more to profit from not only derailed those processes but now control the levers of power in this country. A balance, a conduit to true diplomacy has never existed to this regime and it's become a greater threat to Israel than an ally. Sadly it's gonna take time for the Israeli government...even the Likud...to realize this. Some, I think already are.

Blaming the Israeli lobby shortsells the many other interest groups who also have grown in status/power/money with increased tensions in the region. Someone earlier pointed out to me how much money our large corporations are sure to make in Lebanon restoring those blown up roads and cellphone towers and radio stations. Also the vast amounts of money American munitions makers are currently making as our weapons are still the "gold standard" of all sides in Iraq...not just the U.S.

This country needs serious lobbying reform and it must be something Democrats have to hold not only Repugnicans, but Democrats to as well. While there is a need for a special interest group to have a voice in an open society, it's another thing to buy influence and until this fine line is seriously addressed and real campaign finance reform and other changes come about, we'll be stuck in a country where war and the proliferation of it remains a main export of the U.S.

Peace...

[itzamirakul]

39. Carter and Clinton's efforts - Yes. The recent Democratic stance-

No. That was then...this is now...

Definitely there are other groups of influence but none so powerful as the Israeli Lobby apparently is right now.

The Israeli Lobby is composed of other non-Israeli groups, and persons of influence. These are the representatives of the other special interest groups that you mention. Who knows what their reasons may be for being a part of what is called The Lobby? Undoubtedly, money and unbridled power.

We will never be able to rid ourselves of the Lobby just as Israel will never free itself from Hezbollah because even after they chase down the insurgents, disarm and kill them, remnants will still rise, take a new name and continue the fight. The same is true with the Lobby...even if it was possible to destroy it, power-seekers would arise from the ashes and start the quest for world dominance anew.

This is about so much more than the immediate conflict between Lebanon and Israel. And it does finally reach into the homes and lives of every American, no matter how comfortably they may be living today.

We can only hope that the Lobby will inflate itself to such a degree that it self-implodes. We can only hope that freedom fighters such as those seeking to gain fair and equal treatment for their own citizens will accomplish that aim and settle into the job of peacekeepers.

I don't know if you have read this paper or not, but I will provide the link. It describes the Israeli influence over our American government. Then I suggest that you google for papers that oppose the ideas expressed in the first paper. It may help you gain perspective and decide what you will or will not choose to believe.


www.londonreviewofbooks.com/v28/n06/mear01_.html

[KharmaTrain]

40. The DLC Stance...Not The Democratic Stance

I've been very aware of AIPAC influence since I got a copy of the former Illinois' Congressman's book in the late 70's. We're seeing how unabashed AIPAC love is a major reason Joe The Schmoe is about to go down and is sending a major chill up Hillary's spine.

I don't think there'd be the amount of AIPAC or other lobbyist influence on any Democratic administration as there is with this regime. I was critical (and still am) of how Clinton pandered to various lobbies (Telcom '96 for example), but when it came to diplomacy and a genuine interest in world peace, he put national interest ahead of party or self gain.

Israeli's influence relates deeply to the military/industrial complex that is a major cause of a lot of the lobbying and other problems. Its an open pit for our tax dollars in Iraq and through foreign aid to Israel and other countries. They make it coming and going...and yet here we're screaming about just one part of a bigger puzzle.

Peace...

[peacetalksforall]

9. The Republicans keep shooting us. We are in the way of the barons

and must be taken out - with their lock-step destructive votes that don't represent us and their theft of our votes by their Republican made hardware, software, technicians, corporate networks, corporate owners, and crooked election officials.

Destroy the UN. Destroy our Constitution. Destroy our courts. Destroy our airports and seaports. Destroy our standing in the world. Eliminate anything standing in the way of the barons and corporations from doing whatever they want. No law, no oversight, no legal recourse, no unions, no dissent, no voice, no vote. But plenty of prisons and military.

Our country is a sham because of the stupidity of a Voinovich and a Lott. Their future wealth must be something to behold.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Was Reagan Correct?

In 1985, Ronald Reagan went to Bitburg Cemetery to lay a wreath. Asked why he would honor the remains of Nazi soldiers, including members of the Waffen SS, Reagan replied: "They were victims, just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps."

Based on what I'm reading on this site, many or most DU members agree with Reagan.

[bananarepublican]

15. They were victims of Nazi propaganda. If you dispute this then...

...you probably believe all members of the SS were born evil.

My understanding (I'm not 100% on this) is that a large number of those in the SS were part of Germany's elite fighting units, who were not involved in "Final Solution" related atrocities. (Let's not forget about those who nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They are more directly associated with more deaths than any one Nazi death camp scum-bag murderer.)

The level of propaganda now being spewed forth today is very definitely a strong parallel to the efforts of Dr. Josef Goebbels throughout the 1930's.

Even though you don't agree, Reagan wasn't far off the mark. There is a fine line between seemingly good people doing despicable things.

P.S. The reality is that all soldiers are trained to kill. Jesus was not a fan of killing. Therefore, the term "Christian Soldier" gives me pause for thought.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. Auschwitz Alone: More Than 1 Million Tortured To Death

Auschwitz alone was responsible for the deaths of more than 1 million, tortured to death - more tham four times the deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.

All deaths are awful.

[Swamp Rat]

19. Go defend Nazis on another website.

[MannyGoldstein]

22. He or She Does Have Point, Though

Where does one draw the line on moral eqivalence?

[Swamp Rat]

26. I have been to Nazi concentration camps

Die Nazin töteten meine Familie! :grr:

I am in no mood for discussing 'moral eqivalence,' especially since I do not even believe "morality" actually exists.

[bananarepublican]

41. How does my post defend the Nazis?

It is highly offensive to even suggest it as such.

One of the points I was trying to make was that any nation can fall victim to propaganda and be led down the wrong path. The current drivel being put out by the MSM being a relevant case in point.

Another way of looking at my post is to consider the fact that over three million Vietnamese civilians were killed during the Vietnam War. This war was escalated by LBJ after faking an incident in the Gulf of Tonkin. So does this make everyone actively involved in this war of choice a war criminal? I for one, don't think so.

[Swamp Rat]

42. So are you going to keep bugging me with Straw Man arguments?

At least you answered the last one yourself. :D

[Swamp Rat]

18. Please list all the DUers who like or agree with Reagan.

Maybe there are new members/trolls who do, but none of MY friends here like or agre with that woodenhead SOB.

[wellst0nev0ter]

20. No, Those Who Sympathize With Dead Lebanese

Are OBVIOUSLY in league with the terrorists :sarcasm:

[Swamp Rat]

23. Well, I've been called an anti-semite for stating I feel bad for the

slaughtered Lebanese children and civlians. That's beyond absurd.

[MannyGoldstein]

24. Absurd and Dispicable! (eom)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. Broken clock, etc.

In the same lines, rich people are also victims of capitalism.

[Minstrel Boy]

35. Absolutely contemptible

to imply a moral equivalence between SS dead and massacred children whose only crime was to live, briefly, a few miles north of a border.

[Recursion]

38. Bitburg was unfortunate

Frankly I don't dispute the notion that a lot of Wermacht and even SS soldiers were victims of the Nazi regime also; the problem with Bitberg was that some of the people buried there were actual death camp guards, and not Waffen SS soldiers. Even Reagan seems to have thought better of that since Deaver didn't really do much after planning that photo op.

[bronxiteforever]

11. Bolton on why he did not serve in Vietnam "I did not want to die...

in a rice paddy" (quoted from Slate article in 2005) He supported that war and then joined the National Guard to avoid going over seas. My guess is the dead civilians didn't want to die either but of course they are worth less than his arrogant ass in his pompous mind.

[babylonsister]

12. Someone needs to show Schumer and Cllinton this. I hear they

haven't decided on whether to support Bolton. If they do after this ignorant statement...

:grr: :grr:

[grannylib]

13. If ANYONE supports this POS after a statement like this, one would think

s/he needs her/his head examined.
What filth. What utter filth.
But then, he's a rePiglican, so what else can one expect?

[malaise]

25. Yes but at least his views should

guarantee a filibuster.

[katinmn]

28. Those two are the leading cheerleaders for Israel "defending itself"

I'm sure they want to support Bolton but are weighing the political expediency. They lost their moral compasses a long time ago.

[Norquist Nemesis]

30. Pffft! There's no point.

It might be better to show it to Feingold and Dodd. :shrug:

[babylonsister]

31. IIRC, both those senators are virulently against Bolton's confirmation. nt

[Norquist Nemesis]

33. Yes, and they would bring this to light effectively.

At least, IMO. :)

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. And someday they will come up with a rationale explaining why Republican

deaths are different than Democratic deaths.

I've wondered about this for some time. If my good Republican friends are so adamant that 26 million Iraqis should die, men, women and children, then how much longer before they'll also justify another Kent State situation on their own home turf? We know what they did with Waco, but what would they do if the same thing happened to a Rainbow meeting?

[marmar]

16. As if I needed another reason to hate silly moustache man...

He's there for one reason: To do everything to subvert and damage the UN, to give these NeoCons their justification for disregarding it.

[Swamp Rat]

21. Anyone who votes to confirm Bolton should be held responsible for his

actions, and sent to the Hague as well.

[acmavm]

27. So what do we do? Sit still while we're sold out by our

elected democratic reps? The same way they sold us out on the Roberts and Alito appointments to the Supreme Court? Because that is exactly what they did.

[Virginia Dare]

32. Bolton has shined a laser point on everything that is....

wrong in this world. Some lives are viewed as more valuable than others. There is no humanity in that philosophy. The slaughter will continue as long as we allow ourselves to think that way.

:cry: