The Israelis must be shaking their heads

[NNN0LHI]

Bush gets up on live television last December and admits to killing around 30,000 Iraqi men, women, and children in a war of aggression against a sovereign country due to the "mistake" of thinking Iraq had WMDs of which there were none.

Do the American people including liberals, actually especially liberals, get all wanked out about it and do something about it. Hell I don't know even one person who wrote their congressman about it.

It was like it never happened. Like Bush never even said it.

I bet I have made a dozen posts here about those 30,000 people and those posts all together got only a handful of responses.

The IDF kills a few hundred people and everyone goes completely berserko!

I don't get it?

Don

[Philosoraptor]

1. Good point.

Bush threw out the figure 30,000 when its much, much higher.

But when he said it, and I saw it live, he said it so matter of factly and undramatically that it gave me chills.

[ixion]

2. excellent point

and that 30,000 number is way off by most estimates, and doesn't include the people who've died almost daily Bush's dirty little occupation.

[panader0]

3. bushco doesn't want a cease fire in Lebanon

because the war there is distracting the media from the debacle in Iraq. Americans have become numbed by the carnage in Iraq, it's so constant it's blinding. The Israel/Lebanon conflict is new and different. People are sheep with blinders.

[panader0]

4. Plus, I think the real number is more like 100,000 bush never tells the

truth

[mediaman007]

5. I don't think that DU has overlooked the murder of 30,000 Iraqis.

In fact, I think that messages here state that Bush* understated the number and that it could be well above 30,000.

As per the outrage, we have a lot of new members who want their say on the issue, as well as veterans who can see past the "spin" of the US/Israel propaganda.

[Lerkfish]

8. my outrage is consistent.

I was equally outraged at the number of civilian Iraqis killed, tortured and detained. I have not changed my position on that.
But I think people see what they want to see. I think pro-israel duers PERCEIVE this outrage as news because it affects an issue they care about.

[Lurking Dem]

6. I get it.

Alas.

[leftchick]

7. bush is responsible for closer to 200,000 Dead Innocents

and I don't get it either. :grr:

[malaise]

10. I agree that there has not been enough

outrage.

[Jim__]

I went to a number of anti-war protests both before and after we invaded

Iraq. I saw lots of Americans there protesting. I guess if you didn't actually attend theprotests you could have missed that because the media didn't cover them very well; but there was some coverage.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. The difference being that there were few here defending BushCo.

How many DU'ers came out saying the slaughter in Iraq was/is justifiable? Unlike now, when a number of DU'ers are defending similarly dispicable acts by Israel.

[jonnyblitz]

11. exactly. somebody yesterday implied "nobody here complains

when we do it" which is a CROCK of apologist horsehit.

[jonnyblitz]

12. just because people don't respond to your threads on the topic

doesn't mean we accept it. I read lots of posts I agree with but I don't respond. I am more apt to respond to someboy I DON'T agree with. :shrug:

[Double T]

13. Is body count the yardstick for measuring the seriousness of the crime....

of killing innocents???? Whether it is 1 or 30,000 or several million does it make the crime of killing innocents any less serious. And separately there is ALWAYS the question of who did what to whom first???? I hope you get it NOW!

[NNN0LHI]

15. What exactly did the Iraqis do to us before we invaded and occupied them?

Do you even know?

Don

[Zynx]

23. Actually, yeah.

It's how we distinguish Hitler and Tojo from our own presidents who have innocent blood on their hands. If you made no distinction for scale, Bill Clinton would be as bad as Hitler.

[Double T]

29. So you are suggesting an atrocity scale something like........

1-500 killed (OK-No Problem); 501-1000 killed (Not So Bad-Acceptable); 1001-50,000 killed (Sorry-Collateral Damage); 50,001-(+) (Hitleresque-NOW we're talking!)

[Zynx]

30. There are matters to be taken into account when judging severity.

There are matters of scale and intent. For example, Clinton's killing of 1,500 to 5,000 innocents in Serbia during the Kosovo operation was not intentional and the scale, while too much, was not massive. Hitler's killings of 11 million in the concentration camps and 40 million others throughout Europe were intentional and the scale is epic in nature. Therefore, Hitler was worse than Clinton.

[Larkspur]

14. Bush's poll numbers are in the thirties due to the disastrous war

If Bush called for a Draft to fight in his immoral wars, he's have a civil war here.

[peacetalksforall]

16. You're right. We accept death = predatory, imperialistic or not.

I call it was it is - killing by killers for the profit of a few and the destruction of the masses.

This is all about killing - mortally or by the theft of our vote or the theft of our money or by being taken to the cleaners to pay for military toys that little-big boy-brass love to test them and play with, toys that drain us and make corporates richer. Or by being a neighbor of a declared enemy of the predators.

I always believed in having a military to defend us. What a laugh. This is an imperialist corporate-baron agenda that wastes lives on behalf of all the corporations and barons and the political operatives who pave their way.

[KharmaTrain]

17. Picture, Picture And More Pictures

Blame a lot on the corporate media that loves to show death and things that blow up. Israel/Lebanon is the place to be right now as there's lot of things that go boom to show and plenty of that good red blood to show up on the TV screens. It's even neater cause they can show the bombing and the carnage all at once. They've got dozens of reporters running around in flack jackets and there's this real neat exciting music and it sure beats anything else on summer TV. It's action, Jackson...that means ratings which means money.

Iraq on the other hand is old news. Fact is the networks can't send the Andersons and Wolfies into the real action of the war as several American journalists like Bob Woodruff, with scrambled brains, can attest to. It's not a fun war anymore. No scenes of bombers dropping bunkerbusters or tanks riding around with hundreds of happy Iraqis throwing their shoes. This isn't a fun war...and one where direct, reliable information isn't available...only the death counts and second-hand reports. It's a dirty war, so most of it is done undercover, at night, in the shadows so that fades from the American short-term radar. If anything, it's like an old TV show...we know the plot, we're tired of the characters, we want something more fun to watch.

I think there's been outrage on DU about the deaths in Iraq...moreso than we see in our corporate media...and plenty of pictures, when available, but I also think that Israel turns up the rhetoric several notches around here. I find all this killing as needless and fruitless. I expect some status-quo-ante which will keep Hezbollah and their rockets in Southern Lebanon and set the stage for the next round of attacks and bombings.

Cheers...

[deaniac21]

18. It's because the extremely religious and kind Hezbollah are

being hunted down. It's extremely disquieting to see these peaceful and honorable people treated this way.

[Zynx]

21. I assume that was sarcasm....

[Nimrod2005]

19. We should all be able to kill few, WTF is going on?

Nice post...:sarcasm:

[moondust]

20. Not only that.

The Lebanese gov't and people ALLOWED this known, indisputably terrorist organization to integrate into their society AND GOVERNMENT and now lots of people everywhere cry about all the "collateral damage."

I think it's time for the Lebanese gov't and people to stand up and take responsibility for the bad decisions they have made that allowed this all to happen. When I hear about dead "collateral damage" kids I ask myself what those kids' parents have done in their lifetimes to rid their neighborhood and country of these known terrorists who will hold their children hostage and use them as human shields as long as they live if given the opportunity.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

22. Wow, you must go through life with your eyes shut.

No one said anything about the Iraq War? Are you fucking kidding me? Get a grip, will ya?

[NNN0LHI]

25. Quick how many US soldiers have died in the past two weeks?

How many Iraqi men, women, and children were killed over that period?

No Googling allowed.

Do you know?

I bet you don't.

Don

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

28. What, exactly, does that matter?

You made a claim that no one cares about how many Iraqis we've killed, which is utterly and completely bullshit.

[Missy M]

24. I got all wanked out about it and wrote my congresspeople...

many times, so now you know one. I certainly didn't let you know personally what I've done, as I'm positive many on DU have done. To me your statement is an insult.

[enough]

26. I think the question is: Who is "everyone?"

In fact most people at DU and on the left have been "completely berserko" about the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis and Americans in Bush's evil war. Those same people (and very few others) are now "completely berserko" over what is going on in Lebanon and Israel.

How can it be that you don't know even one person who wrote their congressman about Iraq? This just does not ring true at all. What else have you and all your friends been doing if not writing to congressmen, writing letters to the editor, protesting in the streets, etc etc etc. to try to stop Bush's evil war in Iraq?

[jsamuel]

27. I am/was concerned about both. But when the Iraq War started...

I was not online. I now am. I now want to stop another one from starting. Is that so hard to understand?