Men Not Working, and Not Wanting Just Any Job (Know Any? Are you one?)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/31/business/31men.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1154318400&en=588ae1fc9e26c876&ei=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin

Alan Beggerow has stopped looking for work. Laid off as a steelworker at 48, he taught math for a while at a community college. But when that ended, he could not find a job that, in his view, was neither demeaning nor underpaid.

So instead of heading to work, Mr. Beggerow, now 53, fills his days with diversions: playing the piano, reading histories and biographies, writing unpublished Western potboilers in the Louis L’Amour style — all activities once relegated to spare time. He often stays up late and sleeps until 11 a.m.

“I have come to realize that my free time is worth a lot to me,” he said. To make ends meet, he has tapped the equity in his home through a $30,000 second mortgage, and he is drawing down the family’s savings, at the rate of $7,500 a year. About $60,000 is left. His wife’s income helps them scrape by. “If things really get tight,” Mr. Beggerow said, “I might have to take a low-wage job, but I don’t want to do that.”

Millions of men like Mr. Beggerow — men in the prime of their lives, between 30 and 55 — have dropped out of regular work. They are turning down jobs they think beneath them or are unable to find work for which they are qualified, even as an expanding economy offers opportunities to work.

About 13 percent of American men in this age group are not working, up from 5 percent in the late 1960’s. The difference represents 4 million men who would be working today if the employment rate had remained where it was in the 1950’s and 60’s.

This story intrigues me. Has a some part of the male population been kicked out of the American dream?

[yellerpup]

1. Once you hit your 50's, male or female

You are screwed for getting a reasonable job. Maybe you can get a minimum wage job, or a job in retail if you can stand to be on your feet 8-12 hours a day, but any job that comes with health benefits will be closed to you unless you buy into the company as a partner. Sucks.

[slackmaster]

4. Yes, age discrimination is a problem

So far I've gotten around it by maintaining a youthful appearance.

I have good genes in that regard.

[yellerpup]

10. Me, too.

I had a good job in New York that I landed when I was 54 years old because in NY, no one dares to ask you how old you are. I moved to NC just before I turned 55 and when you apply for a job there, they shoot a copy of your driver's license (with birthdate and year) and attach it to you application. No, they don't come out and ask you the illegal question, but they get the answer all the same. I take care of myself very well. I'm in the top 95% of fitness for my age group, 5'4", 108#, no wrinkles in my clear complexion, good sense of humor and excellent skills. I got a temp job lifting boxes for 90 days after looking for 18 months. Sorry to admit it, but the job almost killed me. Now I'm too weak and too sick to look for work.

[leftofthedial]

57. I have a youthful appearance as well

routinely assumed to be 10 or 12 years younger than I am.

but so much data is available to possible employers now that it is hard to hide your age.

[slackmaster]

2. I know a small number

Mostly hard-core alcoholics and/or addicted to some kind of hard illegal drug like meth. One of them died at age 52 in May. He had multiple major medical problems. I suspect he was diabetic and had hypertension as well as being obese. He had dropped out of the system originally to avoid paying taxes, and did occasional work for cash.

He had no access to medical care because any attempt to use it (i.e. MediCal) would have resulted in him getting busted for non-payment of taxes.

[benburch]

3. My neighbor stopped working years ago...

...of course, his WIFE still goes out and supports them.

I cannot imagine not doing something for a constructive living. If White Rose ever tanks, and it looks like there is no danger of that, I'll be back out there selling myself as an embedded systems consultant.

[RamboLiberal]

9. I know a guy next door who never worked after getting out of the Army

And nothing traumatic happened to him in the Army. He sat out the Vietnam War stationed in Germany. Got home, took a training course but didn't want to start at the bottom of a trade. So first dad supported him, then two wives.

But coming from a area where most guys worked in the steel mills and seeing how they became unemployed, then underempoyed after years of earning good wages, I do wonder if for the guys who aren't destined for the executive ranks if we're not cutting out the path to gainful employment for many guys.

[enid602]

62. selfish

I agree. While I sympathize with the guy in the story for not being able to get the job he feels he deserves, it seems to me that fully retiring with only $60K in the bank (while drawing down $7500 per year) is a bit selfish. And while Mama works.

[Herman Munster]

83. he's a jerk

No work is beneath me and any honest work is respectable. I would pick lettuce in the fields if it meant helping my family or clean toilets or whatever jobs people think americans wouldn't do.

But if I was in such desparate circumstances and didn't want to work for whatever reason I wouldn't sit on my ass on a path to financial suicide, I would either work or move to a foreign country where my dollar would go a long, long way.

Costa Rica, Panama, Mexico, for instance...$60,000 and you are set for life for all practical purposes. Half the population is in abject poverty and lives on $2 a day there.

[electron_blue]

5. My ex did that for a few years. He had a PhD and preferred unemployment

to work 'beneath him'. My friend's ex is like that. Also a PhD and prefers volunteer work and minimally paid specialty work (less than $10,000 a year) to doing something that paid $40-50K but that 'anyone' could do.

What do you mean by "kicked out of the American dream"?

[slackmaster]

11. Sounds like your ex was just plain lazy

I suspect that trait may have some relationship to why he is your ex.

Your friend's ex sounds like someone who either doesn't need money or just doesn't care.

[electron_blue]

12. Yes, he was lazy, imo

I had an interesting conversation with a (male) friend. During the divorce process, my friend asked me about my ex finally taking a job across the country and questions related to child custody and support. During the conversation I said I couldn't imagine willingly moving across the country away from my child. I said if I lost my current job, I'd take a job at Penneys working retail if it meant I could stay in the same town as my child, even though I'm way overqualified for that. My friend, who also has a PhD, is currently married with 2 kids, said I didn't understand - a man's career is everything and god forbid if he were in that situation, he'd go wherever the job was, even if it meant leaving his kids behind in a divorce situation.

My friend has the exact same job that I do. I've put in the same training and sacrifices and dedication as my friend and ex, yet they seem to have a stronger sense of some work being 'beneath them' than I do. I realize these are only anecdotal points, although the original article implies this is a widespread phenomena. I seriously can't imagine being unemployed bcs I didn't find a job I liked.

[slackmaster]

14. I am basically lazy but really, really hate being poor

And I am morally opposed to living off "the system" when one is able-bodied.

[zalinda]

16. Actually, I understand this

In this society, most men are known by their jobs. At a party, most will ask a man, what do you do? He'll answer, I'm a _____________ (fill in the blank). Of course, there are men who are just plain lazy, but there are also men who's whole identity is in their job. It's changing slowly, but it's still out there.

For a woman, it's are you married and how many kids do you have? And, then what does you husband do?

zalinda

[Doctor_J]

19. I think the saying goes, "A man is what he does, and a

woman is what she looks like". Sad, and changing, but still true.

[bumblebee1]

31. or who she is married to.

[raccoon]

32. I've heard that, and maybe it is that way for most people.

But as a single female with no kids, for a long time I felt that my identity was my job. When I was unemployed, I felt embarrassed about it (as well as hard up for money!). Once when I was unemployed, and then started taking classes, I was relieved that I could tell people, "I'm going to school," as opposed to being out of work.

Am I the only woman who feels this way? Please, somebody out there, tell me you've felt this way too!

P.S. Now, having said that, I feel that in this day and time of the ever-more-disposable worker, we all--male and female--need to find at least some--no, I'd say MOST--of our identity outside of our work.

[lukasahero]

45. Of course we feel that way

We're not asked as often but that's changing.

I love my job and take a great deal of satisfaction and pride in the development of my career. I also have no kids and people have figured out to ask me what I do (although many still don't expect to hear my answer).

That said, though, I agree with you and my most real sense of worth and pride comes from who I am, how I relate to and support my family and friends, and all the intangible things that make us human, which is seldom work. ;)

[Democrats_win]

6. Didn't we invade Iraq & Afghanistan to give men meaningful work?

Dr. Frankenstein had a meaningful job, but didn't he create a monster?

[midnight]

7. These jobs and many more have disappeared.

Our congress is just passing bills to protect illegal dealings by this administration, and the corporations that justify moving the jobs to cheaper digs. It may not be the same thing exactly, but there were a lot of economical implications from the powers that remove jobs in the movie " Fun with Dick and Jane".

[Glorfindel]

8. "Beneath them?" Elitist, Republican balderdash

If the American dreams consists of American males refusing to work when work is available, then I guess they have been kicked out. Serves them right, too. Most of them voted for *.

[Sammy Pepys]

13. I don't know about you guys...

...but if I got to keep even a semblance of that lifestyle by taking a low wage job and maybe only working 20 hours a week or so, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The rub is that the way this guy is doing it might not be in the best interests of his family.

[LostinVA]

24. Bingo

[Blue_Tires]

15. i'm not working now, but believe me, i want to

[fasttense]

17. Well, neither I or my brother are working right now

even though we have both looked for about four years. I retired from the military with a good pension and a working spouse. My brother struck it big in the dot-com boom and really doesn't need the money. But both of us would work if we could find something that would give us some cash after paying for daycare, work clothes and transportation. But all the jobs available pay crap. We could easily get three jobs in house cleaning, counter or restaurant work. But between us we have 12 years college education, and 40 years experience in administration, management and telecommunication/computer programming. But that and $5.00 will buy you a cup of coffee in this wonderful economy.

[hfojvt]

29. I cannot stand retired people who work

especially when they take good jobs. The only reason I am working is for $20,000 a year and health care and I am hoping to goto part time work and pay $200 a month for my own health care. If I was retired military getting the $20,000 or even $15,000 and health care for staying at home I would consider it lunacy to take a job. But I suppose work feels different when you know you do not have to be there. But it is like retirement is wasted on the retired.

[raccoon]

84. I agree with you there, unless they have to because they need

the money and/or benefits (that is, if they are fortunate enough to have a job with benefits.

"I cannot stand retired people who work
especially when they take good jobs. "

I feel that way about anybody who doesn't HAVE TO work.

Right now, I don't know anyone personally like this.

[blues90]

34. i've been looking for a job for 5 months

i don't have a house or savings and my wife is not able to work . I have years of managment experience in the automotive repir field but have not been able to find one job that pays more than $11 per hour in any field , all offer no benefits and many offer no more than 30 hours a week . i am 57 and screwed now and I've always worked all my working years . Now it's scary and a lot of the time depressing that I am forced to now take a low pay job with no security and not enough to get by on .

This is not funny of hopefull and trust me they all use your age to base their selection or tell me I am over qualified and tell me right out this is a low pay job , yes I realize this so try to sell yourself when they don't think you will stick around longer than it takes you to find something else . i know carpentry too but i can't work at the pace they require now days and compete with people in their 20's .

It's a real tough deal now days , real tough to be forced to settle for wages I made 25 years ago and be 25 years older . Great country we have here with their lies about a great economy , there is nothing great about it and as more jobs vanish the competition gets worse .

Glad to see some are set up for the next 10 years or more .

[Coyote_Bandit]

18. There are probably some folks who think

that I am the female embodiment.

Forty something single professional female with 3 graduate degrees and 2 professional licenses. Now unemployed for nearly four years. During that time I have collected well over a thousand rejection letters and have even been turned down for a part time job in a charity thrift store. I really don't think I am being too picky. Before being laid off I managed investment accounts, practiced law, and managed insurance claims in a 5 state area.

It doesn't help that:
*I am a political liberal living in red state employment at will hell;
*Even though I later graduated from a state university I was sent to a Christian college (I must admit my own reluctance to hire those labeled Christian);
*Two of my three long-term former employers have gone out of business and cannot be contacted to verify employment history - and the third has had substantial management and personnel changes;
*I'm 40 something, a little chunky and have never been drop dead gorgeous - and I naturally am an introvert;
*I don't attend religious services - and in red state hell that can have significant social and business implications;
*I am single and do not have children which here in the Bible Belt is nearly always interpreted as an indication that I am not exactly one of the faithful - either I don't accept my role as a woman in society or I must be lesbian;
*I returned to college and changed careers in the late 90's and relocated twice (work related);
*I haven't actively practiced law in over 20 years and have no network for professional resources or referrals;
*I have a small family that has been largely self-employed and many of my friends work in fields (e.g., medical) where I have no training.

I have been willing to change industries and job functions, to relocate, to accept lower compensation, to take an entry level position. Regardless of how flexible I am willing to be it just doesn't seem that anything is going to happen in terms of finding employment. So I have contemplated lots of other alternatives to traditional employment. I've tried to do some legal and consulting work but that would seem to be more of a hobby than a profitable career - completely aside from the potential for liability. I have yet to find any good choices.

[greguganus]

38. Just wondering...

...if you are including all your education on your resume? If so, maybe employers think you will leave soon for greener pastures if they hire you, due to your extensive education. Have you thought about "dumbing down" your resume for some positions? Just a thought.

[Coyote_Bandit]

47. I have a wardrobe of resumes

and I have found that there are definite advantages and disadvantages in choosing what to omit, what to keep and how to characterize past work history. I do not show professional licenses unless they are required for the position. I have an M.A. in education which I always omit from the resume - unless the job is a teaching or training position. Otherwise it adds very little to my employability. Sometimes I omit one or both of my other graduate degrees - which requires that I recharacterize relevant work history. If I omit both then I have to recharacterize my entire career. However, sometimes one degree or the other is relevant to the position I am seeking and it is included. Showing any extended period of self-employment seems to be far more negative than showing educational degrees. I've had more than one potential employer tell me that there were other folks who needed a position more than I did - because in their view I could fend and provide for myself based on my history of self-employment. Gaps in employment seem to be preferable to showing self-employment - especially if the self-employment generated marginal income. There is a fine line between dumbing down a resume and showing enough qualifications to legitimately be considered for an entry level position. And the dumbing down process becomes more difficult the longer one has been in the workforce because of the trade-offs involved.

[survivor999]

20. Question: Are these men even gonna vote in Nov?

Do they realize something ain't right with the way things are going?

[area51]

21. "...as an expanding economy offers opportunities to work."

In what alternate universe is this? We have a shrinking economy. If we really had an expanding economy like the NYT thinks, tell me why there are so few job listings in the newspaper, few job listings on the internet, and what job listings there are, are low-paying, part-time or contract, no healthcare bennies jobs? :mad:

[BluePatriot]

30. No kidding

I noticed the article seemed to contradict itself on this point, in a ham-handed effort to frame the phenomenon as "lazy men not working," when that is absolutely not always the case (granted, it may sometimes be)

[lastliberalintexas]

70. Thank you- I couldn't believe it took 21 posts for someone to say it

[Ms. Clio]

22. so it's not "illegals" taking jobs that these guys want

It's very interesting that it's not just that the jobs are low-wage, but also that they are low-status: "demeaning."

On edit: I wonder what kind of job his wife has. Reading further, I see: "She is taking in work as a seamstress, baking pastries for parties and selling merchandise for others on eBay, collecting a fee. Still, she says, she hopes to land a part-time clerical job."

Apparently, low-status work is good enough for her.

[pitohui]

41. yeah, HER pride is not important, only the man's pride is

:eyes:

[LostinVA]

54. What a flaming LAZY HYPOCRITE that guy is n/t

[LostinVA]

23. He needs to get off of his ass and get a job

Retail, warehouse, temp work, bagging groceries, dressing like a chicken and handing out coupons at the mall. Women -- and many men -- do it all the time.

NO honest work is "beneath" you, not when you are pissing away your family's financial health and your retirement.

I hate this false sense of elitism. It's what makes service industry employees get paid -- and treated -- like poo.

Boo hoo.

Pride goeth before a fall.

[greguganus]

39. I would shovel sh*t to support my family and not put a burden on them n/t

[LostinVA]

42. My Dad DID do that -- literally

When the union went on strike one summer... he went and worked at area dairy farms shoveling out manure, to get some money under the table so we could pay bills and eat. Even my crazy redneck relatives would never do this... sitting around reading and playing piano will you're burning through your savings and retirement, while your spouse works??? WTF???? Get a job. I've worked on crab boats, at retail, fast food, waitressing, picking blueberries, etc.... even after college I worked retail when my company went under. It's honest work, it's a job -- HELP YOUR FAMILY.

[treestar]

25. Some illegal immigrant has "his" job

Wonder why he doesn't even think of starting his own business.

[malta blue]

26. Silly me...I thought this was an article about my

LAZY ASS brother....a man who will not take just any old job and at 30 still mooches off my stepmother who works 4 jobs to support him. My dad won't give him a cent!

It is an interesting story, however, if I were his wife, I would expect him to contribute to the family as much as I was. Now, if he were staying at home to care for our child, or something of that nature, then so be it. But to fill his days with diversions like playing the piano...:wtf:

[uppityperson]

27. temporary retirement is a good thing mid-life

I know of several people who have retired young, for a while, then returned to the work force. Some have had a difficult time finding employment at the same rate (same as people who take breaks when they have baby/child), but most say the break was good. Being able to balance off "what do you do, keeping busy? too busy!" with "what do you do-read/write/etc" is a good thing.

On the other hand, as a middle aged person, I am concerned about having to find work that pays decent since higher paying places don't want to start with someone my age.

[Akoto]

28. I am 21, and I'm preparing for my future by ...

Starting my own business. :)

It has been hard, but I'm enjoying the ride and it's turning out well! It gives me the freedom to do what I need to do with my money (I've already started a savings account) and because of the nature of my business, I will earn residual income.

This was something I had to do because certain health issues don't allow me to easily hold a normal job. It just turns out this is becoming a better option for me as the job market goes downhill.

[The2ndWheel]

33. Go for it

Can't stand in the way of someone who wants his time back. It's their money.

[MadHound]

35. Sorry, but I find this to be BS

I can understand about being somewhat picky when it comes to work, ie decent pay and bennies, but to turn down job after job simply because he "values his free time" and thinks most jobs are "beneath him", frankly I find the criminally irresponsible. And if I was his wife, having to slave away while she holds up her end, I would be divorcing his happy ass and kicking him to the curb.

While this guy gets to live the life of Riley, he is endangering he and his wife's future, specifically their old age. He's put a second mortage on the house, and drawn down their savings. Now, if some emergency happens, he's going to be less able to cope with it financially.

Look, I understand needing to take a break once in awhile from the workaday world, but frankly I find this to be too much. He can afford this for now, by mortaging his families future, but really, how much longer can he afford to sit at home playing the piano.

[Jara sang]

36. An indication of an empire in decline.

[unpossibles]

37. am I the only one bothered by the sexism in this article?

I have a good work ethic - yes, I have had times where I was unemployed, but was looking, and since I do freelance work, there are times when finding a FT job that doesn't pay as well as part time freelance work is not worth it. Also keep in mind that I have had many years of busting my ass at more than one low paid and physically demanding job to make ends meet.

But what bothers me is the attitude that it's ok for a woman to do this, but not a man. That's what I call bullshit. I had no problem helping to support my wife when she was unemployed and holding out for a good job, and she did the same for me.

Why is a man who chooses not to work unacceptable, where women have that option? I will agree that there is a lot of rampant sexism toward women in the workplace as far as position and as far as equal pay, and I do not think that is fair either.

Not trying to start a flamewar - just curious why the double standard.

[LostinVA]

43. Every woman that I know who "doesn't work" works her ass off

Taking care of kids, the house, etc. That being said, I know TWO WOMEN who do this -- all of the rest work because of financial necessity. The stay at home moms work all day long, and into the evening... as do the working moms. A friend is a stay at home Dad, because his wife makes a huge amount of money, and he was a sociology major in college. He takes care of the kids, the home, volunteers at school, etc. He doesn't sit around all day playing piano, sleeping till almost noon, and enjoying his free time. Methinks the guy ion this article would find cleaning house and changing diapers beneath him.

This dude doesn't sound like he has a full-time Mr. Mom deal going on, AND his family is in serious financial straits.

I don't see any sexism at all... I see realism.

[unpossibles]

44. I more or less agree the guy in the article is lazy

and I am not saying that stay at home moms are lazy either. But if a woman chooses to not work it makes almost no waves and not get mentioned.

My wife and I both work because we have to, and it does sound like this guy is making a major mistake financially, I just find the article to be sexist.

[lukasahero]

48. I agree, the article is sexist - towards both genders

It paints the man as lazy suggesting he'd rather sit around the house than take a job that is "below him". It doesn't quite consider the possibility that once he accepts the lower wage, or the lower job, he can forget about ever making what he was making as well as forget about moving on to the next step in his career. In this article, men who don't work are just lazy.

In this article, also though, it doesn't investigate why it's ok for his wife to take up piece work (seamstress, etc). What it is in our society that makes it ok/easier for her to do that work and not give up on her career advancement? Quite possibly because if she's "hoping" to get a part-time clerical job, she doesn't have a career, she has a job. Is this an agreement the two parties in the marriage made? Is he taking care of the kids now while she works? These are details we don't know and, really, it's between them.

However, the sexism is in the article itself and comes from the position they make that men's worth = financial viability. Women's worth = ? Who knows, but apparently it's not, according to this article, their financial viability. (Proof once again that the patriarchal system only serves to hold everybody down.)

I would like to say the world is different, but it's not yet.

FTR, when I was laid off, I knew damn well that if I couldn't find a job in my field I would be stocking groceries at Stop and Shop rather than live off my husband. It's just not in me to not be a contributing member of the partnership. (We don't have kids and I would feel differently if we did.)

[LostinVA]

53. I was just saying that I personally don't know of any woman

Who does what this guy does -- they either are stay-at-home moms, "stay-at-homes" wives who take of the home and do the books for the family business, etc., or work outside the house. I mean that sincerely -- I don't know any spouse of either gender who does this... that was my point when you said a woman who did this wouldn't make waves. See, I don't think that's true nowadays. I think a woman who literally did nothing around the house and/or didn't have an outside job would be frowned upon.

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. I suggest that the guy in the article

is just one guy in an article.

The author would like to draw a bigger portrait of unemployed men from this example.

I've been "unemployed" for three years. I'm a stay at home dad, of a two teens and a special-needs first grader. I'm building a new home for us from our savings. When the house is completed, I fully expect that I'll be self-employed.

[Coyote_Bandit]

50. As a single woman

who is long-term unemployed and seeking work let me point out that it may well be acceptable for a married woman to choose not to work. But the same definitely is not true for a single woman.

[unpossibles]

52. I agree - but I think that goes for men and women

I guess I just feel that the stereotyping done here is not good for men or women.

And as someone who was recently unemployed - yet still found work most of the year and contributed as much as possible - and got a little bit of crap about it, maybe I am taking this a bit personally. When my wife was job hunting, no one questioned it - when I was, everyone (including family) gave me hell, even though I still brought in some money and worked my butt off doing a lot of work on the house as well as seeking a good job.

Or maybe I am wrong - just seems to be a double standard, and I think it sucks for men and women.

[Coyote_Bandit]

68. There is clearly a double standard

Men are expected to work. All of them. All the time. No excuses.

Single women are expected to provide for themselves. Again, no excuses. But they are not necessarily expected to earn the same as their male counterparts at work.

Men and single women who don't work are considered lazy.

As a society we tend to be a bit sympathetic if single women make an effort but still have difficulty providing for their children. But, make no mistake about it, we still expect them to work. Perhaps more so. Single mothers who are unable to provide for themselves and their children - even if they are working - are considered freeloaders by many.

Married women? No, they are not expected to work outside the home. Not unless the husband agrees. Not unless she wants to or chooses to do so in order to raise the family's standard of living. Certainly not unless she can bring in more by working than the expenses incurred as a result of her absence from the home (e.g., childcare).

You're right the stereotyping done is to the detriment of both men and women. But I don't see the double standard as being exclusively gender based. Single women and single mothers in particular are expected to work just as surely as are men. The double standard relates almost exclusively to how we perceive the role of married women. Even single women in long-term committed relationships are generally expected to work and be capable of providing for themselves.

[unpossibles]

76. I see what you mean

but I think that since single men (including fathers) are also expected to work, obviously, it is a gender difference.

[pitohui]

40. some part of the male population are lazy bums

wives should not tolerate this **** and the only ones i know who are do, it's a sad situation, because they are basically wealthy but older or physically unattractive women who feel they have to buy a man

just as there are women who won't get off their azzes, there are lazy men as well, there is no magic in testosterone that makes all men "keepers"

the most horrible situation i know of, the bum is not playing the piano all day, he's out having affairs with strange, while his wife is trying to balance a baby, a six figure salary high pressure job -- and the fact that she is losing her sight

he won't even babysit his own CHILD

he's auditioning replacements for his wife in her own house that she's paying for -- and everybody but her realizes that he'll be out the door in a shot when her sight and earning ability are finally gone for good

women, god love us, we need to get us some serious self esteem, i just hate to see good women putting up with this shite

[B Calm]

46. From the people I have met in this category, most vote republican.

They are looking of ways to bankrupt the social security program and find ways to collect it before retirement age.

[lukasahero]

49. "he won't even babysit his own CHILD"

A friend I have says it's impossible for a man to babysit his own child. If it's his child it's called parenting, not babysitting. ;)

I hate jerks who call it babysitting when it's their own kid.

[LostinVA]

56. You got it -- Supernanny said that on one of her shows, too n/t

[warrens]

51. Big business is going to be begging guys like him to come back

Once Gen Y comes along. Fewer workers in the two generations following the boomers is already gutting the amount of expertise available in hundreds of fields. In five years or so, a lot of businesses are going to try to hire back the people they forced out to hire younger, cheaper labor with no benefits.

[Greyhound]

67. I hope you're right, but with a limitless supply of (socially) educated

immigrants to tap, it don't look good.

[leftofthedial]

55. that's me.

[datasuspect]

58. i'm 36 years old

during the "salad years" in the 90s, i made pretty decent money and often had fulfilling work.

i got laid off in chicago in 2003. spent some time living in the streets. moved in with family in texas.

but lately it seems like most jobs are menial and pay $8.00/hour.

[readmoreoften]

59. expanding economy huh?

They are turning down jobs they think beneath them or are unable to find work for which they are qualified, even as an expanding economy offers opportunities to work.

what world does the NYT live in?

[Taxloss]

60. I get paid for my hobby. Does that count? n/t

[Codeine]

61. Able-bodied men who don't work infuriate me.

I'll do anything I have to to make ends meet -- I'll flip burgers, mop floors, wash cars, walk dogs, *anything.* People that think work, hard honest work, is somehow "beneath" them are disgusting. Never a man lived that was too good to scrub shit from a toilet if that what was needed at the time.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

63. And I'll bet he doesn't help around the house either

I've (unfortunately) hooked up with guys like this in my life. The fact that they did nothing all day in no way diminished their belief that I was supposed to cook and clean for them when I got home from work.

[unpossibles]

64. I will assume you mean "people"

when you say "men"

never mind.

[Codeine]

73. I won't lie.

I'm far more bothered by seeing men not working than seeing women without jobs. I'm not really old-fashioned at all, but I think men have an absolute responsibility to work. Perhaps it's sexist, but I don't feel that way about women.

Sorry. :shrug:

[Greyhound]

69. What would you do if they wouldn't hire you for those jobs because

you're over-qualified? I am a middle aged man in excellent physical condition (thanks to 20+ years as a body builder) and really enjoy hard physical labor. Problem is I have a degree and am well-spoken and only speak enough spanish to get by, they won't even consider me for janitorial positions.

[Codeine]

74. "Can't" has never been the same as "won't."

Most people sympathize with how hard it is to find employment. I'm talking about folks that just don't and won't, of which there are plenty.

[SoCalDem]

78. Some people are just lazy.. My friend's son turned down $26 an hour

with full benefits, Mon- Fri... no evenings or weekends..

why?

he would have to be out in the hot sun a lot of the time..and it sounded like a boring job.:(

the job:

washing airplanes..detailing them inside after flights, prepping for the next flight and shuttling soldiers from billeting to the airfield

[Greyhound]

65. After my career was ended by the Clinton administration, I spent

3 years, and just about everything I had worked my whole life for, looking for employment. I was (and still am) unemployable in my own field simply because I was very good at it and therefore made a lot of money for doing it and I'm over 35.

I submitted well over 4000 applications everywhere from Intel to $tarbuck's, going through dozens of interviews, all with the same results. One of my favorites was when the owner/president brought me in to personally explain that, while I was by far the best candidate for the job, his son's soccer coach really needed the job. :grr:

[Subdivisions]

71. I am one...

I was a sheet metal journeyman until I realized that both age and illegal immigration were affecting my employability.

Why would an employer hire a broke-down, 42 year-old, tradesman when he can get one fresh out of apprenticeship school?

Why would a company pay for union-level wages when they can pay illegal alien wages.

I'm in Texas. Need I say more about both?

So, what have I done about it? Well...Six years ago, I started training myself to make a living on the internet where I now design websites and write articles. Now, working anywhere except my desk is a fading memory.

[SmokingJacket]

72. I know several.

The best of all worlds is a great, fulfilling job with decent pay. But if your two choices are a shit job or depending on your spouse... I can hardly blame them. Women do this all the time.

[Nicole]

75. It appears neither of them are working

From page three of that article:

Shortly after Northwestern closed, Mr. Beggerow married. It was his third marriage, and also Cathleen’s third. He has one adult child by the first wife; Cathleen has no children. For six months they lived on his $12,000 from a shrunken pension and her $28,000 as a factory worker — until severe injuries in an auto accident five months after their wedding forced her out of that job. She eventually qualified for $12,000 a year in disability insurance.

Their two incomes are not enough to cover expenses, which bothers Mrs. Beggerow, although not enough to badger her husband to take a job, any job. She respects him too much for that, she says.

Instead, she finds ways to make money herself, in activities she enjoys. She is taking in work as a seamstress, baking pastries for parties and selling merchandise for others on eBay, collecting a fee. Still, she says, she hopes to land a part-time clerical job. “The comfort of a paycheck every week would take a load off my mind,” she said.

While she is tolerant of her husband’s reluctance to work, respecting his current pursuits, she is not above looking for a job he would consider suitable. “I look at the employment ads every day,’’ she said, “and every so often I find one that I think might be right up his alley.”

It looks like to me they are both drawing incomes without jobs. They are both enjoying hobbies, the difference is her's pays & his doesn't.

[EstimatedProphet]

77. I'm one

I'm trying to find work, but the lie about the 'expanding economy' is just that-a lie. Try finding a job that pays more than minimum wage these days in most communities. Try finding a job in a specialized field too.

[Yavin4]

79. Everyone Missed the Most Important Fact in the Story

"To make ends meet, he has tapped the equity in his home through a $30,000 second mortgage

The idiot is borrowing money to fund his lifestyle, and there are millions of Americans like him. This is why the Fed is raising interest rates.

[sweetheart]

80. off the balance sheet

These people are living in places with the rent paid, and are likely part of a family unit
of some sort. Then they are doing uneconomic work, does that make them lazy? I've
never worked so hard running a small family farm as the housewife, and i've seed i did not
sew last winter, so much work, so little time.

If the household is rich enough, it pays to emply an alpha male as a housewife, as no employers
want real alphas. Then the alpha can get shit done and come to appreciate the small work that
goes unpaid in the patriarchal economy. Heck, when in midlife (40's), if the work costs
more than the "childcare", why do it?

In my past few years 'work', i've written some thousands DU posts, posts that the "lazy" feelings
of concern about our world sponsored. what a frame, that.

[meldroc]

81. Much of it is pride. I've been there, and back...

Currently, I've got the good fortune to have a good, well-paying software engineering job with a small startup company. Yes, I'm very fortunate right now.

A few years ago, I was working at a well-known company, when I got burned out and lost my job (politics was a very large part of what happened.) Of course, when that happened, that was right when the economy tanked and the dot-com boom turned bust. Before I worked there, I had worked previous jobs, mostly as a CSR at a call center notorious in my area for abusing and underpaying employees.

After I lost my job, I started looking for other software engineering companies, using the usual methods - searching on the Internet, contacting headhunters, direct-contacting tech companies, and got nothing. Absolutely nothing for six months.

Back then, I definitely got hit with dreaded pride disease. The only jobs available were crappy jobs, the most promising was going back to that call center. Living in a country where your status and who you are pretty much is determined by your job, the idea of going from "Software Engineer" to "Phone Monkey" was really, really painful.

So I didn't. I turned my nose up at the "lesser jobs", and weeks of unemployment turned into months. I ran out of savings, and maxed out my credit cards (I'm still cleaning up that mess to this day...), and eventually was unable to pay rent at my apartment, so I moved in with my parents.

My parents were very unhappy about the situation, but took me in, and a status-quo was built that lasted for three years. I looked for work, but since software engineering work was extremely hard to come by, and I couldn't muster the motivation to look very hard for retail or call-center McJobs, I made half-hearted attempts to find work, and of course, failed. I ended up sleeping a lot, surfing the internet, doing hobby-programming, reading books, etc.

Eventually, something happened. I was rapidly getting sick of living with my parents (which really sucks when you're in your high-twenties/low-thirties), so I started looking again, and found a job at that call center from Hell. It sucked, mightily. I HATED that goddamned job. I had to work evenings, weekends, holidays, I got sent home when it was slow, made to work overtime when things were busy, and was paid lousy wages and treated by the bosses like I was in junior high school. But... it was better than not working. I had a little bit of money, I was more motivated, and my seething Dark-Side hatred for that job pushed me to look for something better. I took an internship at a local web-development business, for FREE, just to get experience, so I could put something on my resume. As I was working in the call center from hell, getting constantly yelled at for petty crap, I was looking for something better.

It finally happened. A headhunter interviewed me, and I scored a job at a big, well-known tech company in town. You have no idea how good it felt to write that resignation letter and tell them (in the politest, most professional wording) to take their eight dollars-per-hour and SUCK IT!!! Those last two weeks after I put in my notice, I acted like Peter from Office Space, after he was hypnotized, for about five days, before they told me to take a hike. Broke my heart, it did...

But now, I'm back to software engineering. I have decent work now. Hopefully my career will continue to grow, and I continue to make decent money. But it's definitely possible that I'll lose it all again. Hopefully, the lesson sticks - shitty work is better than being broke and unemployed. Though chances are I'll delay getting that McJob as long as possible... It's pride. Moving from a respected profession to a service sector drone job for less than half of your old pay (and quadruple the bullshit) hurts a lot.

[Roon]

82. My cousin, 44

Lives in his Mom's rental house, doesn't pay rent. His Mom pays all his bills, light, food,vet,and pet food. Been doing this for years now.