Israeli soldiers captured in Israel or Lebanon?

[breakaleg]

I just read here that the kidnapping of the soldiers that started this whole thing may have been captured from inside Lebanon, not Israel as has been reported. Maybe most of you know this already.

Two questions:

I've been following the news on this since day one and there was no mention of this discrepancy that I've seen. Why not?

The whole premise of this war has been that Hezbollah provoked Israel by crossing the border and initiating this incident. Does it change your opinion of Israel's actions if this incident took place in Lebann, not Israel?


article referencing several independent sources of the incident taking place in Lebanon
http://www.antiwar.com/frank/?articleid=9401

[xultar]

1. I have heard this as well. Good post cuz I would like to know also.

[rodeodance]

2. I have read about this issue lots on the net but have not heard the media

address it. If they did--it was a bleep on the radar only.

[Lurking Dem]

3. Even Hezbollah said they crossed the border.

[Little Star]

14. Link, please? I have not heard that. n/t

[cal04]

4. Forbes was the only paper here to post this but the later edition changed

where the capture was. This is at 5:41 am

The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them.

The forces were trying to keep the soldiers' captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity.
By JOSEPH PANOSSIAN
http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873051.html

This is at
By JOSEPH PANOSSIAN , 07.12.2006, 07:09 AM

The Hezbollah militant group captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes along the Lebanese border on Wednesday, triggering an Israeli assault with warplanes, tanks and gunboats as Israeli troops crossed the frontier to hunt for the captives.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873240.html

[breakaleg]

5. Even in the later report he does say that

"Israeli troops crossed into a southwestern sector of Lebanon, near where the soldiers were seized, trying to keep their captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, ..."

The implication is that it took place in Lebanon. If this is true, I wonder why it's not getting more press.

[11cents]

7. There's no such implication.

They were taken in Israel, very close to the Lebanese border. Israeli and Hezbollah troops have been facing off over the border for years.

[EFerrari]

11. Okay, 11cents, they were taken in Israel and that set off this war

that has been planned for A YEAR.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/21/MIDEAST.TMP

[EFerrari]

10. The "news" is definitely being scrubbed. I noticed it when

I went fishing for news of protests. It was just weird.

Good catch, cal04. :thumbsup:

[cali]

6. whatever

and even H'zbollah hasn't denied that it crossed the border into Israel, but it's hardly the action that caused everything.

[lumpy]

8. Kick

for the truth

[Xenotime]

9. Hezbollah is fighting to survive..

[BuyingThyme]

12. It's a good question, but moot as far as the invasion is concerned.

They were going to do it no matter what.

[oberliner]

13. Israel.

The Secretary-General condemns the attacks by Hizbollah across the Blue Line, which resulted in Israeli deaths and injuries, and the capture of two Israeli soldiers. This violent act is a blatant breach of Security Council resolutions 425, 1559, 1655 and 1680.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sgsm10563.doc.htm


Under-Secretary-General for Peacekeeping Operations, JEAN-MARIE GUÉHENNO, said the most serious crisis between Israel and Lebanon since the withdrawal of the Israeli forces from south Lebanon in 2000 had broken out on 12 July, when, around 9 a.m. local time, Hizbollah had launched several rockets from Lebanon across the Blue Line towards positions of the Israel Defense Forces near Zarit, had crossed the Blue Line and captured two Israeli soldiers, killed three others and wounded two more. The captured soldiers had been taken into Lebanon.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8776.doc.htm

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

15. Even if they were captured inside Lebanon

the spin about who or what started the war would have adjusted itself accordingly. We would have then heard the position that Hezbollah is an international terrorist organization that doesn't honor borders and it doesn't matter where the capture took place; it's still a capture of soldiers by a non-legitimate international terrorist entity.

And like several in this thread, I don't think the events started with the Hezbollah capture of soldiers. To me the events in Gaza and the West Bank which were heating up at the time are as much a precipitating event as anything.

[Little Star]

16. Lebanon

or Israel take your pick.
There are two VERY DIFFERENT stories about which side of the border that those 2 Israeli soldiers were captured on July 12, 2006. Israeli and USA say they were captured in Israeli and you will find that most of the western media follows their cue. However, when it first happened Yahoo News , MSNBC Online and others said that the 2 soldiers were captured in a town within southern Lebanon. I actually saw them posted and even linked to the Yahoo one in one of my earlier posts when I was trying to figure things out. Those sites have since been reworked with the western story.
Bottom Line which group of liars do you choose to believe? Good Luck trying to get to 'just the facts' because they change when the breeze blows the other direction.

Associated Press
Hezbollah Captures 2 Israeli Soldiers
By JOSEPH PANOSSIAN , 07.12.2006, 05:41 AM
The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap...


And the French news site www.VoltaireNet.org reiterated the same account on June 18, "In a deliberated way, sent a commando in the Lebanese back-country to Aitaa al-Chaab. It was attacked by Hezbollah, taking two prisoners.


July 25, 2006
Kidnapped in Israel or Captured in Lebanon?
Official justification for Israel's invasion on thin ice
by Joshua Frank
(This article by Joshua Frank is at Antiwar.com but, I don't know if I'm allowed to paste a link to that web site)

ASIA TIMES ONLINE
It's war by any other name
By Sami Moubayed

DAMASCUS - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert described what is happening in Lebanon as saying. "This is an act of war." Olmert is correct. This is war. It has been war, non-stop, since 1948. What is happening in Lebanon today is yet another chapter of bloody Middle East events that will last for generations to come, because it is impossible, after so many years of conflict, for the Israelis and Arabs to forgive and forget. <snip>
It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon's side of the border with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory.

This unleashed hell in Israel, and Olmert immediately responded by mounting a war on Lebanon. A sea, air and ground blockade was enforced on Lebanon, and a systematic destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure was began.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html

Noam Chomsky and others have said this started because of what was happening in Gaza. Something about a Palestinian family of seven killed on the beach in Gaza then Hamas captured the one Israeli soldier then all hell broke loose on Gaza. It is said that on July 11th Hezbollah was trying to take some of the heat off the Palestinians in Gaza. If that was their plan it didn't work Gaza's people are being killed left and right.

[scarletwoman]

17. People need to always keep in mind that our media is controlled.

The "official story" -- vetted by the State (whichever State, btw) -- is generally the only version of events that will be presented to the public. If folks haven't gotten a major clue about this by now, after 6 years of bushco, then I fear our future looks even more hopeless.

The very first raw reports out of Lebanon on July 12, either directly or indirectly, indicated that the 2 IDF soldiers were captured in Lebanon. Furthermore, one report I read explained that Israeli special forces had been making incursions for some time into Lebanon in order to gather intelligence on Hizbollah positions in the South (in preparation for the already planned war?).

This is not in the least bit far-fetched. We know that U.S. special forces were sent into Iraq prior to the launch of Operation Iraqi Liberation. There have been numerous reports for several years now that there are small Special Forces units inside Iran.

Sending teams of covert operatives into hostile territory is S.O.P., there's absolutely NO reason to assume that Israel would not have been engaging in cross-border operations -- they spy on US, after all. The withdrawal of the Syrian army from Lebanon would most certainly have presented an opportunity to step up efforts to neutralize Hizbollah.

Whatever outrage DUers have felt over the actions of bushco in the Middle East, there ought to be equal outrage directed at the Israeli government. They are no more moral nor less deluded about "terrorism" than our own ruling elite. Remember, the ruling powers in Israel are partners with our own PNACers, they are working from the same "War on Terrorism" playbook.

Inderstand that you are being constantly propagandized, don't take "official stories" at face value, ESPECIALLy when it comes to the Middle East.

sw

[Maat]

18. I agree with you (n/t)!

[bvar22]

19. If there is an burnt out Israeli Tank inside the border of Lebanon,

that would lend credibility to this story.
Where are the pictures?

[slaveplanet]

20. The border

The border of Southern Lebanon and Israel is a seamless web of inter-visible Israeli outposts with night vision devices, tied together with ground surveillance radar, plowed-flat and raked daily to see footprints, and backed by quick reaction forces. Israelis routinely make incursive patrols into Lebanon. It is nearly impossible for an organized group of Hezbollah or anyone else to cross the border south, much less capture prisoners there. The very notion that this was an incursion INTO Israel is propped up solely by the credulity of the general public that knows nothing about military operations. In reality, the idea is as ludicrous as the Easter Bunny.

[pinto]

21. Locked.

Democratic Underground considers antiwar.com to be a highly unreliable and/or bigoted website. We choose not to provide it any support or unecessary publicity.