Imagine this: Syria and Iran go "all out" on Israel. What does the US do?

[SoCalDem]

Other than reinstating the draft, there is NO way in HELL we could (would we?) fight Iraq, Syria, and Iran all at once..

I do not see any other country stepping up.. How does Jordan avoid being dragged into it? How 'bout Egypt? Mubarek is not all that popular, and the "men on the street" are supporters of Hamas and Hezbollah..

Would Israel, cornered and pissed off, just start nuking countries? Could we stop them if they said they were going to ?...Would Bush even ask them not to?

[geardaddy]

1. Don't forget Afghanistan.

[SoCalDem]

2. I deliberately left it out, because we are not "all that into" it anymore

But if the European (NATO) forces get edgy and pull out, then we would have to fill the void..

We sure didn't learn anything from Viet Nam or the USSR's Afghan adventure, did we?

[geardaddy]

6. Of course we didn't learn anything...

This is *co we're talking about.

[shadowknows69]

23. We are very much THAT into it

everything I'm hearing from soldiers is that is getting really bad. Worse than Iraq according to a few.

[theHandpuppet]

4. Speaking of which, in today 's news...

From the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5230138.stm

Last Updated: Monday, 31 July 2006, 13:39 GMT 14:39 UK

Nato inherits south Afghan force

The mission is seen as one of Nato's most challenging
Nato forces have formally taken control of military operations in southern Afghanistan from the US-led coalition which overthrew the Taleban in 2001.
The chief of US-led coalition forces symbolically handed over command at a ceremony in a dusty airfield near the southern city of Kandahar.

British Lt Gen David Richards said the new Nato-led force wanted to deliver "peace, stability and prosperity".

The south has recently been at the centre of an upsurge of violence.

Hundreds of people have been killed in attacks since May in what is the traditional heartland of the Taleban....

MORE

[SoCalDem]

7. How long are the mothers/fathers/wives of Europe going to

allow their family members to fight wars started by peevish, ignorant tyrants?

It's all so "teenager-ish" at its core.. A bunch of idiots, rushing headlong into a fracas..breaking everything, hurting people everywhere, and then saying.."hey, we're outta here..you guys clean this mess up".

At some point, someone has to start saying.. It's YOUR mess.. YOU clean it up..

[HereSince1628]

3. Oh please, don't put the nuclear option in play.

They'd never wait for the supplies to be produced and the troops to be trained. They go right to the tactical nukes they love.

[Yupster]

38. If Israel was ever defeated in battle and in danger of being overrun,

then they would certainly use their nukes rather than go quietly to their deaths again.

I think the slogan is "never again," meaning they may die but they're never going to just walk into the deathcamps again to be killed like sheep.

[ComerPerro]

41. Please. No one is gonna put them in death camps

[Yupster]

51. Well if the Israeli Army was defeated in battle

and the Iranian Revolutionary Guards broke into the Israeli heartland, I wouldn't want to be a Jew in Israel. Maybe not death camps. Maybe just murdered by an out of control mob army shouting Allah Akbar.

[GAPeace]

54. That isn't what happens to the Jews in Iran..

They have full rights.

I really don't like your denigration and stereotyping of Muslims. You know many people in the Iranian Army just want to GASP protect their country.

[leftchick]

5. I would bet on the US using nukes on behalf of Israel

sick isn't it?

[Zynx]

16. Why would we need to use nukes for Israel? They have their own.

As far as the rest, neither Syria nor Iran pose any conventional threat to Israel. Iran does not touch Israel and Syria would be whipped in 48 hours.

[TahitiNut]

39. I wonder how a threat to turn Jerusalem into a radioactive glass hole

... would play. Nothing left to fight over. :shrug: (Yeah ... I spend time "outside the box.")

[roamer65]

8. The US

will be trying to bail the troops out of Iraq, much like the British did at Dunkerque in 1940. If Syria enters this conflict, the green light will go out from Teheran to all Shi'ite Iraqi groups to attack US forces in Iraq. The conflict will spread and we will be staring World War III in the face.

[kenny blankenship]

9. This President is itching for the chance to unleash strategic bombing

on all his enemies at once. He'd do it without hesitation, knowing there's nothing Congress can really do to him in the 2 and a half years he has left.
Yes, that means nukyewlur weaponry--what do you think they've been developing new nukes for anyways?

[countingbluecars]

11. I think that's been the plan.

Provoke, provoke, provoke, and then blast them into a "lasting peace."

[hack89]

10. Iran poses no conventional military threat to Israel

how do they get their forces in a position to attack Israel?

Israel will smash the Syrian forces - Syria's weapons are old and obsolete. The only weapons they have that scare Israel is chemical and to use them would simply be an invitation to be nuked.

[wuushew]

12. Israel would be gassed off the face of the map

Iran would be severely damaged by nuclear weapons but probably have enough people in the rural country side to repopulate.

The Syrian government would fall and the Palestinian Authority could expand and claim the formerly Israeli territory with Jerusalem as the capital.


By the time the U.S. did anything the key actions would have already taken place.


:nuke:

[malaise]

14. Only Israel has nukes

That is what everyone else must fear including Israel.

Bushco is responsible for this entire mess. Give war a chance - that's his mantra -freedom from life is on the march.

[Strelnikov_]

32. "Give War A Chance"

That pretty much sums up GOP foreign policy.

[fujiyama]

52. How would the PA somehow survive

while Israel is "gassed off the map"?

Have you looked at how small of an area it is? Any nuclear fallout would likely kill many Palestinians in the West Bank. I don't think Israel will simply go away leaving the PA to survive. I have a feeling if it came to a sort of armeggedon scenario, the Israelis would do their best to destroy any remnants of a Palestinian government authority, whether that includes the PA, Hamas, or any other figure. I understand some people have crazy fantasies about reclaiming lost land, but the Israelis aren't giving it up...not that easilly.

[Make7]

13. After a few days, have Bush fly over it in Air Force One for a photo-op.

Then wait a few more days to formulate a plan. Then drag feet while implementing said plan. And every once in a while make important sounding statements.

That seems to be the pattern...

- Make7

[jsamuel]

17. don't forget to roll up your sleeves

:sarcasm:

[treestar]

15. This is where I wonder about how serious the Arab countries are

about "driving Israel into the sea."

It seems to me they'd have done it by now.

Or, they only reason they don't is US support.

In which case, we should locate a client state in an easier place to defend. Why have it where it is located so as to be "surrounded by enemies who want to drive it into the sea?"

What other country has this problem? Even if, say, the Latvians wanted to drive all the Lithuanians into the sea, would it really be a problem as long as they can't do it?

It's just running off at the mouth unless there is a true threat.

[PCIntern]

19. I would not want to be in one of those outmoded

Syrian tanks at the border crossing. Perhaps the reason they don't invade is because they'd be incinerated, in the same manner in which a foreign enemy, landing on our soil, would be incinerated.

However, if the Iranians and Syrians 'won' a war against Israel, and after they had slaughtered the entire population in a manner which would make Pol Pot proud, (like that alliteration?) they would build their own wonderful land of milk and honey wherein technology and humanism would flourish and all could worship at the church/mosque of choice. Further, there would never be any disproportionate reaction against anyone, whenther Christian, Buddhist, or otherwise, who would wish to come into the country and visit, say Bethlehem, or Judea. There would just be a utopia on Earth...Ahhh..

They've certainly been able to "Bring good things to life" in all the Arab countries...their standard of living is just spectacular.

But, the fatal flaw in all this is that if they drove the Jews into the sea (read:murdered them all) who would they blame for their plight? Yes I know...the Christians! That's the ticket!

But that's for a later era...much later.

:sarcasm:

[The Stranger]

25. Is this more of the Israel-as-victim propaganda?

All of Iran, Syria and Lebanon couldn't "drive the Jews into the sea," but I can see how constantly saying that could be used to justify Israel's bombing innocent Lebanese. Israel isn't under the most distant threat from her neighbors. The Pol Pot hyperbole is insulting to everyone and everything.

And the talk about Arabs being savages is disgustingly bigoted. Most of them have had the oil sucked out from beneath them for use by the U.S. and Bushco, and have been oppressed and imperialized for a couple centuries. Or they have been militarily occupied by the U.S. or Israel.

[PCIntern]

34. L'Etranger...

You're off base...have you seen what these Peace-loving folks do to Jews when they actually get a hold of them? Looks like hamburger...they beat them to death with blunt instruments, eviscerate them, and raise their bloody arms in rejoicing of the killed Jew sacrifice. Want proof? Recall those two Israelis who wandered down the wrong street and got killed inside the house. Famous shot of a guy raising his bloody arms sceaming with joy in a rapturous fashion.

Why does the use of the name Pol Pot offend you? That's what would happen...what's the big difference? I didn't say Arabs are bigoted, I said the Jews would be killed by the Arabs. There's a big difference isn't there?

[The Stranger]

49. I think you misread my post.

I wasn't saying the Arabs were bigoted. And the people being massacred "with joy in a rapturous fashion" are the Lebanese. The Pol Pot references really hurts your credibility. Not to mention that Pol Pot killed his own people -- not innocent Lebanese slaughtered who never had anything to do with Hezbollah, and probably hated Hezbollah, that is, until Olmert's little recent foray North.

[treestar]

56. But you don't answer my point

If they really want to do it, why isnt' it done?

[SoCalDem]

30. "foreign enemy, landing on our soil, would be incinerated." 9-11?

Apparently even our DEFENSE dept was caught with its panties down..

[PCIntern]

31. not if you saw the 9/11 confab on C-Span this wknd...

it was LIHOP/'MIHOP...

[Vinca]

18. King George is batshit crazy and would probably drop a nuke. nt

[leftofthedial]

20. cheney launches preemptive strikes against Venezuela

[KittyWampus]

35. I hate the fact you just made me laugh

d'oh

[MGD]

21. We would support Israel with everything we have of course.

Iran has become too powerful in the post-Saddam era middle east. We would do everything under the sun to diminish that power. I think even a Democratic president (in the post GWB reality) would do this BTW.

[High Plains]

44. How did we ever get to a post-Saddam era Middle East anyway?

Oops. Blowback is a bitch.

Something kinda similar with Syria and Lebanon: We and Israel help force Syria's army out of southern Lebanon a few months ago, and whaddya know? The force that could restrain Hezbollah was removed.

[endarkenment]

22. They have nothing much to go all out with.

Certainly not with conventional arms. Syria has some chemical weapons, but nuclear Israel would wipe Syria out without suffering too much damage. Iran has nothing in that department that can threaten Israel. The myth of beleagured Israel is just that.

[Clarkie1]

24. Syria and Iran are not suicidal.

This will not happen.

[Uzybone]

43. Exactly

It will never happen. Syria and Iran will be turned into dust by Isreali and US nukes.

[cali]

26. Judging

from this and other threads, most DUers (exception being the regulars in I/P, don't know jack about the mideast.

[Reckon]

27. I think

.. Israel will come up with some pretext to strike Syria which will bring Iran into the war. Then the Bu$h Admin will say it has a legit reason to widen the war. But first Israel will weaken them all they can hoping Syria gives them a legit reason to hit Syria. And Syria knows it's coming.

The US Air force is ready and waiting for the GO word.. COMING SOON!

Edit: That's the real reason Rum Rum stopped personal from leaving for the next 4 months.

[burythehatchet]

28. nookes

:nuke:

[Strelnikov_]

29. I Think We Are A Long Way From Syria Or Iran Overtly Attacking Israel

On the other hand, I see the Chimpus Maximus 'advisors' using the current conflict to help in building support, or even a casus belli, for an air attack on Iran by the US.

In fact, I give an air attack on Iran before the end of the year about 50/50 odds.

Of course, this attack will spin out of control, resulting in sudden loss of Persian Gulf energy resources to the developed world, bringing on Petrocollapse, as I have stated before. But, hey, it will be better than a video game until the economy starts to collapse.


Of course, the Jane's Defense high tech weapon fanboy's will say that an air attack on Iran will be no problem.


Just like Hezbollah would not be a problem for Israel.


Battlespace in Lebanon, what, 15 mi. x 20 mi., with years of intelligence.

Battlespace along Strait of Hormuz alone, 200 mi. x ? mi. deep with Iraq Medal of Freedom quality intelligence.


Oh no, an air attack on Iran should be easy. Gen. Turgidson says we won't even get our hair mussed on this one.

[tedzbear]

33. It will reinstate the draft, darlinks.

All you under 35 boy chicks will be roasted alive on the chimp's big barbacue spit.

:popcorn:

[Blackhatjack]

36. Key Q: What do Saudi Arabia and UAE and Egypt do?

Saudis are our oil supplier, UAE is running many of our ports and strategic supply lines, and Egypt leadership is already battling Islamic insurgents.

They all are Muslim countries.

[Yupster]

37. We would resupply Israel

so they could keep up the slaughter which is what it would be.

In the Yom Kippur War the Iraqis contributed two MIG squadrons and the Third Tank Division to the Syrian Front.

Before they reached the battlelines, four of the MIG's were shot down by Syrian anti-aircraft fire, and the Tank Division went charging straight up to the front without any plan or coordination and was immediately mauled.

I don't get this draft stuff. For five years the only place that I've heard we are going to have a draft is on Democratic Underground. Why do people here keep predicting a draft to cover every exigency? I don't see one coming now, or in any of the last 100 times that DU'ers have predicted it. I guess someone will be right some day though if you keep predicting it every day.

[ComerPerro]

40. If and when that happens, I want to see all the pro-Israel people here

getting up and enlisting to fight and defend Israel

[PCIntern]

42. Your logic reminds me of the

Get your Heart in America or get your Ass out crowd in the 60's...

Why don't you go to Lebanon and take up arms yourself? They'd love you...yes...they are a peace-loving people the Hezbollah. Keep saying it to yourself...

[ComerPerro]

46. Because I don't give a fuck.

[PCIntern]

47. Ah...

very impressive...actually, you well represent many of your fellow travellers around here. At least you're bold enough to tell the truth. I give you credit for that. Brevity, I suppose, is your long suit, right?

[geek tragedy]

45. US wouldn't need to do a thing.

Syria and Iran can't attack Israel with any meaningful capacity. If they tried, it'd make Bambi vs. Godzilla look like a battle royale.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. How Many Troops We Need To Drop A Couple Devastating Bombs On Syria And

Iran? You really think the US is going to plan for some big ground war? Hell no. They're gonna do it from the sky with firepower Iraq hadn't even seen. I find the potential for it terrifying.

[Lindacooks]

50. Nukes and the end of the world.

And we might have a few minutes to slap all the fundies upside the head. They'll be sitting around stunned because there won't be a rapture.

[fujiyama]

53. People seem to overestimate

Iranian and Syrian military power. I really don't think the Syrians are stupid enough to get dragged into a suicidal war like this. Their military at this point is no match for Israel. It was one thing, when in the '70s they had constant Soviet support. Now they are stuck with a bunch of crappy old tanks and a decrepid air force. Ahmedenijad seems crazy, but I wonder if even he's that stupid.

An Iranian conventional attack against Israel would prove to be difficult as well. They have the manpower for sure, but Israel has a very skilled and capable air force and is far superior technologically. The Iranians wouldn't make it that far, especially with even the slightest US backing.

Even in the event of a nuclear crisis, Israel has a huge stockpile. While an Iranian fanatic may have luck in killing many Jews with two or three nuclear strikes on Israeli cities, he will ultimately decry his country's population centers to rubble. The Israeli guidance system is likely much better and I have no doubt if they wanted to, they could easilly destroy every major Iranian city.

Needless to say, the event will produce an incalculable death toll. It would send the world economy into absolute chaos. The US economy would be crippled for a while, since both Venezuela and Iran would stop exporting oil.

The unknowns are China and Russia. You may the Chinese supplying the Iranians with some weapons, but I think they would play it very cool overall...Ultimately though, that would be their best bet and I think they would benefit most from this chaos. After all, they still have an uninterrupted flow of gas from Venezuela for one.

[cigsandcoffee]

55. Then we'd be at war with Iran and Syria.

It would be very bad for everyone, but Iran and Syria especially.