Who Are the Victims at Gitmo?

[Fountain79]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=2068511&page=1

While this weekend's first-ever suicides at Guantanamo have bolstered prison advocates' claims of desperation among detainees, recently released Pentagon documents say the guards at the camp have endured a consistent pattern of harassment and abuse by detainees as well.

A conservative friend had steered me to this article. Curious what people think here about it.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I've heard that Bush is expanding Gitmo's prison complex

to dehumanize more prisoners and guards, I guess.

[John Q. Citizen]

2. If they threw your friend in there without a trial or telling his

family, would he treat the guards real sweet for the next ten years?

[JuniperLea]

3. Our US servicemen and women are the real victims

Because whatsoever BushCo decides to do unto others will no doubt be done unto ours seven-fold.

That article is a bunch of BS. Hold anyone that long without a trial, add barbaric conditions and disgusting food and even the most pure of heart, the most innocent of mankind, would raise some hell. I know I would.

"It's a strange thing; it'd take me hours to try to explain this to you. They hate us, they hate Americans. I see it every day. I see a look in their eyes that I cannot explain to you. It is a crazy look when you're dealing with them," he said.

What utter bullshit and nonsense! Of course they hate you, fucktard! I'd say the prisoners were showing great restraint! I'm sure the guards would have killed me by now. I have no patience for injustice and I don't care what kind of criminals are locked up, you tell them why they are locked up and you charge them! You make sure they have a lawyer and you put them on trial! Anything less and you get what we have right now. "We" asked for it and we got it. What's the question? What's the mystery? It is all very cut and dry.

[EFerrari]

5. Sorry. 8 of 10 of those poor souls who are being held

never raised a weapon against an American soldier.

Our people get to go home.

Those people being held were sold into detainment and, shame on us FOR EVER, we bought them. And now, we can't let them go because each one of them knows to much.

Shame.

[JuniperLea]

12. I don't get why this is in response to my post... n/t

[EFerrari]

14. Because although their duty at Gitmo may be unpleasant and

even dangerous, our service people are not the real victims at Gitmo -- a conclusion this bit of propaganda would like you to draw.

Maybe the heat is getting to me. :silly:

[JuniperLea]

24. I think you misunderstood me...

What I'm saying is that however we treat others is how our people will be treated if they are caught and holed up in some disgusting camp like Gitmo. The guards are getting what is expected under the circumstances.

[EFerrari]

31. I did. So much for any question about the heat. n/t

[JuniperLea]

37. I can relate... even the office is too hot

they turn the damn ac off over the weekend and it takes all day monday to cool off... i have two fans on today... it's a wonder we aren't all going postal!

[EFerrari]

40. Let's not whistle till we're out of the woods.

lol

:)

[ThomCat]

4. They were rounded up seemingly at random

and they've been held for years now, tortured, interogated repeatedly, humiliated, harrassed, and they have no prospect of ever getting out if Bush keeps getting his way.

How nice would you be to the guards?

[EFerrari]

6. Remember that felon Rumsfeld: "These are some of the most

dangerous terrorists in the world."

Well, no, they're not. He is.

[ThomCat]

21. And yet, somehow he isn't be held for war-crimes.

We can only home his time is coming.

[EFerrari]

25. Where ever he is, is hell. Because he'll never escape who he is. n/t

[pennylane100]

7. Wow, imagine the nerve of those detainees,

they are illegally kidnapped, flown to a jail somewhere halfway around the world, tortured and detained without any trial and they have to nerve to retaliate by striking out at their captors. How uncivilized.

[ComerPerro]

22. quite dreadful and barbaric

[Fridays Child]

8. When people are treated like animals...

...it's hardly surprising that they behave like animals. I remember seeing photos of detainees being transported by air. They were chained to the aircraft floor in a manner that reminded me of descriptions I'd read of 18th century slave ships.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. I hear those Jews at Auschwitz mistreated those poor guards.

:nopity:

[Fountain79]

10. to compare this to Auschwitz is a practice in hyperbole.....n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. It's a concentration came where they torture and kill...

ethnic minorities.

The only difference is the scale at which they do it on.

[Fountain79]

15. It's a detention center....

and until I see massive rounding up of Arabs and Muslims will I try to compare the two. Doing so minimizes the real Auschwitz.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Oh, how politically correct of you.

And that 15 year old in Iraq that our troops raped and murdered was just collateral damage.

[Fountain79]

23. No, it was a crime that should be punished....

but to try to equate Guantanamo with Auschwitz seriously calls into question whether you actually thought about your statement or simply used the name of such a horrific place for shock value.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Similarities...

1. They're both concentration camps. Check.

2. They're both for ethnic minorities, scapegoated by the facist administration. Check.

3. They're both places of outrageous human rights violations. Check.

[Fountain79]

32. How about another checklist?

1. Are they being gassed wholesale?

2. Are they being starved to the point of being human skeltons?

3. Has the administration rounded up every single member of said ethnic/relgious group?

[cigsandcoffee]

34. Oh, come on. 10,000,000 people were slaughtered at Nazi camps.

The vast majority were starved.

Please don't diminish their suffering by comparing that to some guard flushing the occasional Quran down a toilet. Gitmo is certainly a disgrace, but it's light years from Auschwitz.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Ah, now you're apologizing for Gitmo

...by dismissing the whole thing as a guard flushing the Quran down a toilet.

Next thing you'll be telling me about how bad the poor guards have it off.

...oh, wait...

[cigsandcoffee]

39. I'm doing no such thing.

I'm pointing out the inanity of comparing Gitmo to Auschwitz, by highlighting one of the scandals there for comparison to what went on at the death camps.

One can oppose the camp at Gitmo without illustrating a severe lack of historical comprehension by dragging up Auschwitz. Get some perspective, please.

[cigsandcoffee]

19. No Jew who wanted to live another second mistreated a Nazi gaurd.

They'd have been shot on the spot. or worse.


I don't think one needs to invoke the holocaust to oppose what we are doing at Gitmo.

[Fountain79]

26. My point exactly...n/t

[cigsandcoffee]

33. It should be self-evident.

People who can't intelligently oppose a political figure or position without ridiculously dragging all the horrors of the holocaust and Nazi Party in to the picture are just suffering from a complete lack of imagination and common sense.

[Xenotime]

11. Those at Guantanamo are being held without a trial.

I thought Congress was going to look into the abuse the detainees were receiving there.

[EFerrari]

35. Yeah - they're going to look into it.

:eyes:

[magellan]

16. Is this any different than what guards endure at any prison?

At least they can go grab a can of coke and idle in front of Faux news with their buddies when their watch is done, safe in the knowledge that they'll go home one day...and that if they're ever arrested they'll have access to a lawyer and a fair trial.

[Zensea]

18. I think it's bullshit

Why be polite?

I also notice the article brings up that stupid ass comment about asymmetrical warfare and the idea that the detainees committed suicide because they hate America.

Bullshit pure and simple. Spin spin spin.

Sure the guards may endure harrassment and abuse, but that's the nature of things, now isn't it? Guess they should go home and cry to their mamas.

There's a big difference between state organized harassment and torture coming from an entity that has power behind it, on the one hand; and on the other hand, detainee organized harassment and abuse coming from a group that has no real power in the place they are at now in Guantanamo.

[ComerPerro]

20. honestly, to hell with the guards.

[texastoast]

27. Truth, Justice, and the American Way

for starters.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

29. How do people who are behind bars have the "power" to harrass?

It makes no sense.

[Canuckistanian]

30. Rush featured this on his show today

He called it's author's view "balanced".

[Libby2]

38. Oh, I don't know.

How would you feel about being locked up and not charged?
I might be a tad pissed myself.

[readmoreoften]

41. Let me get this straight: the guards are the victims?

Those guys in hoods and orange jumpsuits and shackles who are being held without evidence are abusing the guards.
And the abuse consists of:

(1) giving them unbelievably menacing looks.
(2) one prisoner slapping a guard's hand with a utensial when he took his food away.
(3) prisoners committing suicide as a publicity stunt or to make people feel all bad and stuff.


You've got to be fucking kidding me.